The Obama Presidency - 2008 & 2012

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Like everyone else, yes, stupid idea.

Now, if you wanted to jack the gas tax way up (I mean like $2 per gallon up) and funnel all of that money directly into alternative energy research while simultaneously changing people's usage patterns with that sin tax of sorts, I'd be all over that. I'm pretty sure suggestions like that in Congress get people thrown out.

(That said, how exactly does this fit into the "Obama- hopes and predictions" thread?)

SI

I hope Obama thinks it is a stupid idea too. I predict he will wait and see if people can be tricked into thinking it is a good idea. If so, he would likely support it.

[cartman]

Obama is not the shortest serving president anymore. He's been in office longer now than William Henry Harrison.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

(That said, how exactly does this fit into the "Obama- hopes and predictions" thread?)

Being politics and all, it's quite possible this was a trial balloon being floated by a sacrificial lamb. Even more likely now that Obama quickly shot it down when it didn't show signs of getting early traction.

And lest anybody think that's partisan, that's a common tactic for pols from one end of the spectrum to the other.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Being politics and all, it's quite possible this was a trial balloon being floated by a sacrificial lamb. Even more likely now that Obama quickly shot it down when it didn't show signs of getting early traction.

And lest anybody think that's partisan, that's a common tactic for pols from one end of the spectrum to the other.

That's why I put it here. LaHood is Obama's appointed Transportation Secretary (not to say that Obama will or has to agree with him).

I do see a few states are strongly considering this idea.

[JPhillips]

Holy flipping Christ Glen Beck is nuts. This is the kind of "what if" scenario he's running with on Fox.

[Flasch186]

good to see he found a home.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Holy flipping Christ Glen Beck is nuts. This is the kind of "what if" scenario he's running with on Fox.

{scratches head}

Other than the unlikely nature of American's getting off their ass in great numbers to do much of anything or maybe the difficulties in actually organizing an effective revoltuion, I'm having a tough time figuring out what part of that clip you find outside the realm of possibility.

At any rate I'm glad you posted it since I really liked the phrase "tyranny of incompetence" which I hadn't really picked up on before seeing that.

[JPhillips]

Well hell, Jon, I know you're nuts! I just get a little surprised when that brand of crazy is on national television.

Just to keep score, in the first month of the Obama presidency we've already gotten:

Revolutionary fantasies from conservative TV/radio host

Hopes for failure of Obama presidency from conservative radio host

House GOP member comparing the GOP tactics to the Taliban

Another House GOP member saying th GOP will be like Kalishnikov wielding rebels

GOP Senator questioning whether Obama is a natural born American

Tennessee GOP leaders suing over Obama's birth status


The next four years are sure going to be fun.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The next four years are sure going to be fun.

Just like the last 8, 16, 28 years. Blue attacking Red and Red attacking Blue.

[RainMaker]

The same crap went down when Clinton got in power. All the conservatives talked about how there needed to be a revolution, how they should get together on weekends and play war hero in their backyards. Just like liberals would talk about how they'll move to new countries when a conservative gets in. It's an endless cycle of retardedness.

But I am surprised it's on a major cable news outlook. Beck has always been a little out there but it seems he's going the Alex Jones route.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Just like the last 8, 16, 28 years. Blue attacking Red and Red attacking Blue.

Let me also add that I still don't think the attacking is as horrible as the media lets on. Most people in this country don't give a crap about the bickering. They're worried about their family, their job, and their sports team. The red vs blue stuff is saved for the simpletons who need to find something to hate to justify their existence. It's an extremely small percent of the country, but one that has a huge megaphone.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

What a dumb idea.

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

If the current gas tax doesn't pay enough for bridge and road maintenance... sounds like it's time to raise the tax.

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Like everyone else, yes, stupid idea.

Now, if you wanted to jack the gas tax way up (I mean like $2 per gallon up) and funnel all of that money directly into alternative energy research while simultaneously changing people's usage patterns with that sin tax of sorts, I'd be all over that.

to you all!

As JiMGA said, though, it was probably a "trial balloon" to see how bad reaction would be.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Let me also add that I still don't think the attacking is as horrible as the media lets on. Most people in this country don't give a crap about the bickering. They're worried about their family, their job, and their sports team. The red vs blue stuff is saved for the simpletons who need to find something to hate to justify their existence. It's an extremely small percent of the country, but one that has a huge megaphone.

I agree with you.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The same crap went down when Clinton got in power. All the conservatives talked about how there needed to be a revolution, how they should get together on weekends and play war hero in their backyards. Just like liberals would talk about how they'll move to new countries when a conservative gets in. It's an endless cycle of retardedness.

But I am surprised it's on a major cable news outlook. Beck has always been a little out there but it seems he's going the Alex Jones route.

With the caveat that the Republicans then impeached the President.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Maureen Dowd isn't too happy with the Attorney General over his 'coward' remarks.......

Op-Ed Columnist - Dark Dark Dark - NYTimes.com

[Galaxy]

How long do you think the honeymoon period will last for Obama and congress? Do you feel that Obama is risking his first term (and the Dems going into 2010) on this stimulus/bailout plan?

[JPhillips]

Given that he's increased support with independents and Dems over the past two weeks I don't think so. Really, though, the math is pretty simple. If the economy has gotten better he'll be tough to beat, if it hasn't he'll be easy to beat.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Given that he's increased support with independents and Dems over the past two weeks I don't think so. Really, though, the math is pretty simple. If the economy has gotten better he'll be tough to beat, if it hasn't he'll be easy to beat.

I don't really want Obama to get beat, I just want Congress to radically change - or at least one part of it.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Well hell, Jon, I know you're nuts! I just get a little surprised when that brand of crazy is on national television.

Just to keep score, in the first month of the Obama presidency we've already gotten:

Revolutionary fantasies from conservative TV/radio host

Hopes for failure of Obama presidency from conservative radio host

House GOP member comparing the GOP tactics to the Taliban

Another House GOP member saying th GOP will be like Kalishnikov wielding rebels

GOP Senator questioning whether Obama is a natural born American

Tennessee GOP leaders suing over Obama's birth status


The next four years are sure going to be fun.

Well...at least Obama hasn't been accused of overseeing efforts to set explosives in the World Trade Center to make sure those babies came down in case the jetliners didn't get the job done, so we could go to war and Haliburton would get all that oil and we'd only be paying 50 cents per gallon now.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Maureen Dowd isn't too happy with the Attorney General over his 'coward' remarks.......

Op-Ed Columnist - Dark Dark Dark - NYTimes.com

This is actually a bad time for the Dems...with the GOP neutralized, libs tend to start eating themselves.

[molson]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Well...at least Obama hasn't been accused of overseeing efforts to set explosives in the World Trade Center to make sure those babies came down in case the jetliners didn't get the job done, so we could go to war and Haliburton would get all that oil and we'd only be paying 50 cents per gallon now.

Don't forget holding onto the presidency past 2008 as an "emergency" measure and declaring war on Iran.

These aren't fringe ideas, these were all over my law school in 2004.

I still think Bush wouldn't have won (either term) if not for the weird, creepy hate against him. Not the hate for being a bad president, but hate for being the antichrist. It made liberals look like wackos.

[SFL Cat]

Tsk! Tsk! Remember now.....Bush didn't actually win either election.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Well...at least Obama hasn't been accused of overseeing efforts to set explosives in the World Trade Center to make sure those babies came down in case the jetliners didn't get the job done, so we could go to war and Haliburton would get all that oil and we'd only be paying 50 cents per gallon now.

Obama has only been president for about a month. We've got almost four (maybe eight) full years for conservatives to say more utterly ridiculous shit.

fwiw I don't think any House Democrats accused Bush of planting bombs in the WTC.

[DaddyTorgo]

wow bobby jindel sounds like a used-car salesman. no thanks!

[Swaggs]

Jindel did not have the voice that I expected from him.

[Flasch186]

bad format

[sterlingice]

Hard to follow act. Some of the comments on fivethirtyeight are pretty funny, tho

SI

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Well...at least Obama hasn't been accused of overseeing efforts to set explosives in the World Trade Center to make sure those babies came down in case the jetliners didn't get the job done, so we could go to war and Haliburton would get all that oil and we'd only be paying 50 cents per gallon now.

Yes, because bloggers at DU and sitting Representatives and Senators are exactly the same thing.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Well...at least Obama hasn't been accused of overseeing efforts to set explosives in the World Trade Center to make sure those babies came down in case the jetliners didn't get the job done, so we could go to war and Haliburton would get all that oil and we'd only be paying 50 cents per gallon now.

He just gets accused of being a secret Muslim who forged his birth certificate, loves terrorists and wants to resurrect Karl Marx.

[Daimyo]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Jindel did not have the voice that I expected from him.

Me neither. During his speech I told my wife he looked and sounded very much like Kenneth the Page from 30 Rock. Seems a lot of other people had the same association. That is not good for Jindal!

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

bad format

it wasn't the format that turned me way off. it was his inflection, his mannerisms, etc.

[Edward64]

Healthcare, yeah! But talk is cheap, lets see your plan.

[Flasch186]

I would agree that it wasn't really a good coming out party for Jindal to Joe Public.....however was Joe Public watching that portion last night or had they turned over to watch Soccer on Tivo?

[Raiders Army]

Nobody messes with Joe Biden! That was great!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

How long do you think the honeymoon period will last for Obama and congress? Do you feel that Obama is risking his first term (and the Dems going into 2010) on this stimulus/bailout plan?

As far as his support among the opposition, the unity honeymoon appears to be vanishing very quickly. His support numbers have now dropped 10% in the first month to 59%, mostly due to quickly eroding bipartisan support.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/116077/Ob...irst-Time.aspx

Originally Posted by Flasch186

I would agree that it wasn't really a good coming out party for Jindal to Joe Public.....however was Joe Public watching that portion last night or had they turned over to watch Soccer on Tivo?

Agreed. No one outside of the political geeks was watching that speech last night. I caught up on a couple episodes of Lost on the DVR.

BTW.....love the non-partisan coverage by MSNBC. Just when you think they can't make their leanings any more obvious.........

RealClearPolitics - Video - MSNBCer Says "Oh God" Before Jindal Response

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

love the non-partisan coverage by MSNBC. Just when you think they can't make their leanings any more obvious.........

Speaking of which ... Media Life Magazine - Power players: MSNBC and Fox News
During February, Fox News Channel’s primetime viewership jumped 29 percent year to year, from 1.88 million to 2.41 million total viewers. MSNBC was up 23 percent, from 773,000 to 951,000. CNN, meanwhile, declined 31 percent, from 1.67 million to 1.16 million.

Among adults 25-54, Fox News’ key demographic, the network surged 21 percent, from 455,000 to 551,000. MSNBC, meanwhile, was up just 3 percent in that demo but saw huge gains among adults 18-34, where Barack Obama performed quite strongly last November.

MSNBC’s 18-34 average rose 21 percent year to year, from 111,000 to 138,000. CNN was down in both demographics.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Speaking of which ... Media Life Magazine - Power players: MSNBC and Fox News

This shouldn't surprise most people given the partisan nature of the campaign and the political polarization created by this administration which runs in stark contrast to the unity theme. Those who follow the game want to hear a slant towards their beliefs. CNN used to fill that need for the left, but the emergence of Obama has increased the need for a more left leaning network and MSNBC has done a good job of filling that need. We all know where FOX stands as they certainly don't pretend to hide it.

[JPhillips]

As far as his support among the opposition, the unity honeymoon appears to be vanishing very quickly. His support numbers have now dropped 10% in the first month to 59%, mostly due to quickly eroding bipartisan support.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/116077/Ob...irst-Time.aspx

One, the daily fluctuations of a poll like this really don't tell us much. There's no reason to believe that today's numbers are any more accurate than yesterdays, so maybe he's still at 60 or 61. Really it doesn't matter.

But, if you want to play the daily tracking poll game, you picked the worst day possible. Are you going to be back on Friday when most of the poll is post speech? I'd imagine his approval rating will go up five to ten points based on snap polls. But still, it really won't matter.

See you Friday!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

One, the daily fluctuations of a poll like this really don't tell us much. There's no reason to believe that today's numbers are any more accurate than yesterdays, so maybe he's still at 60 or 61. Really it doesn't matter.

But, if you want to play the daily tracking poll game, you picked the worst day possible. Are you going to be back on Friday when most of the poll is post speech? I'd imagine his approval rating will go up five to ten points based on snap polls. But still, it really won't matter.

See you Friday!

I doubt it will raise 5-10 points. That's a pretty unreasonable expectation. 2-3 points is generally what we'd see, though I'm not sure that even that is attainable given the current economic climate. Also, as the article shows, it's certainly not a one day trend. His rating has fallen steadily over the course of a month. That's not a minute sample as you'd like to portray it. A one month sample is much more reliable than measuring any change between now and Friday.

[JPhillips]

What evidence do you have to support a best case scenario of 2-3 points? Here's what the snap polls are saying:

A CBS News poll of approximately 500 people saw approval of the president rise from 62 percent before the speech to 69 percent afterward.

Meanwhile, a poll on CNN showed that 68 percent of respondents -- who skewed a bit Democratic -- viewed the speech positively, 24 somewhat positively, and only eight percent not positively. Eighty-two percent supported the president's economic plan as outlined in the speech, while 17 percent opposed it.

As for the overall numbers, sure he's declined off his high, but he still enjoys strong support. It likely won't stay as high as it is, but anything over 50% is good. Conservatives shouldn't find much policy to support with Obama.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

What evidence do you have to support a best case scenario of 2-3 points? Here's what the snap polls are saying:

Those 'snap' polls are laughable at best. They're asking a group whether they support a 'pie in the sky' version of an economic plan. It's PR, not a plan. The percentage of promises realized in these types of speeches is often relatively low.

Originally Posted by JPhillips

As for the overall numbers, sure he's declined off his high, but he still enjoys strong support. It likely won't stay as high as it is, but anything over 50% is good. Conservatives shouldn't find much policy to support with Obama.

Sure, and that's the real shame of it all. Many people bought into the unity and change platform, only to find it was politics as usual. Only a few were fooled on this board because people here are generally smarter than the average bear, but the general public is far more gullible.

[JPhillips]

Why are some approval polls laughable at best while others are true indicators of the populace's thoughts?

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

This shouldn't surprise most people given the partisan nature of the campaign and the political polarization created by this administration which runs in stark contrast to the unity theme.

It's a shame the Obama administration has polarized the country. I remember the days under Bush when people of all political leanings would go to the park and hold hands and sing together and tell each other how much we respected each others' opinions.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

wow bobby jindel sounds like a used-car salesman. no thanks!

Originally Posted by Daimyo

Me neither. During his speech I told my wife he looked and sounded very much like Kenneth the Page from 30 Rock. Seems a lot of other people had the same association. That is not good for Jindal!

God, I hope this is the guy the Republicans decide to trot out in 2012 he would get absoltuely destroyed. That was one of most uncomfortable speeches to watch and the used car salesman analogy is a good one. I can hardly wait for SNL this week no doubt they will crucify that response speech

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by molson

I still think Bush wouldn't have won (either term) if not for the weird, creepy hate against him. Not the hate for being a bad president, but hate for being the antichrist. It made liberals look like wackos.

Replace "Bush" with "Clinton" and "liberals" with "conservatives" and you've just summarized 1992 to 2000.

The difference, being, of course, that the "weird, creepy hate" against Clinton culminated in a $60 million investigation that concluded that yes, he did have sex with that intern.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

It's a shame the Obama administration has polarized the country. I remember the days under Bush when people of all political leanings would go to the park and hold hands and sing together and tell each other how much we respected each others' opinions.

Once again, a strawman argument with little relevance. Nowhere did anyone claim that the Bush administration was non-partisan or got along well with others. But the Obama camp ran on a platform of unity and change. If you're going to run on that, perhaps it's too much to ask to actually follow through. Using the previous administration's failures as an excuse why the current administration isn't following through on a campaign promise rings VERY hollow.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Why are some approval polls laughable at best while others are true indicators of the populace's thoughts?

Snap polls are very emotion driven as you're basically doing the political equivalent of giving your opinion right after hearing a car salesman give his speech. Only after your start negotiating the details and finding out where the car salesman blew smoke up your ass do you get a true and relevant reaction to the situation at hand.

[JPhillips]

So you're basically saying that approval numbs are only accurate when Obama has a lower approval rating.

I'll stick with my prediction that the Gallup numbers will climb 5-10 points over the next week.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Once again, a strawman argument with little relevance. Nowhere did anyone claim that the Bush administration was non-partisan or got along well with others. But the Obama camp ran on a platform of unity and change. If you're going to run on that, perhaps it's too much to ask to actually follow through. Using the previous administration's failures as an excuse why the current administration isn't following through on a campaign promise rings VERY hollow.

You must be tremendously disappointed since you both voted for him based on his promises of unity and change AND you gave him slightly over one month of leeway in office before determining that he was a fraud.

[Flasch186]

MBBF using polls to prove his point is so laughable that I dont know where to begin. You discount polls that go against you, you prognosticate using polls that you hope will be right, and then use polls that grab stats to prove your point even when pulled from hackneyed blogs. Are you serious?

Swaggs hit the nail on the head. The GOP hasn't been locked out of conference yet that Ive heard of.