Two Hand Touch Tackle

[A-Husker-4-Life]

Dunta Robinson of Atlanta Falcons got concussion on violent hit - ESPN

Lets just make that rule and be done with Tackling all together.. Jeesh, the NFL is becoming a weekend Flag Football League..

[JonInMiddleGA]

Yep.

[Greyroofoo]

Matt Millen comes off as unintentionally comic in that link's clip.

[Passacaglia]

I don't get it -- how is the NFL becoming a weekend flag football league?

[molson]

Ah yes, the seedy underbelly of "tough guy" fans who get all offended when the leage tries to prevent paralysis.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I don't get it -- how is the NFL becoming a weekend flag football league?

I think the thinking is:

Banning helmet launching hits and taking a strict approach on concussions = being a pussy (says people who would probably cry if they were in a car accident)

[Chubby]

bring back the horse collar while we're at it

[molson]

Originally Posted by Chubby

bring back the horse collar while we're at it

I think every player should carry a handgun. We can call it, "Texas rules football".

[Pumpy Tudors]

IT'S AIN'T SPORTS UNLESS SOMEONE'S FUCKIN' LIMB MIGHT FLY OFF

[A-Husker-4-Life]

I'm all for banning the Helmet to Helmet hits but when it's a legal tackle with the shoulder, the player shouldn't be suspended.

[TroyF]

I'll admit to having the same thoughts on this a few years ago. Now. . .

I just don't see how it is being a sissy league when you are telling defensive backs to lower their level. I heard a DB talking about how the goal was ball separation and so you aim for the chest. Then if the guy ducks a little you end up nailing him in the head. He said it wouldn't be that big of a switch to aim for the stomach and hit in the chest instead of the head on those plays.

I think anything that can be done to reduce concussions should be done. Look at the Robinson hit again. He lowers his head and leads with his helmet. It wasn't necessary and it led to both guys getting concussions. I'm sorry, I love football, but there was no reason for that hit to occur in that manner.

[FBPro]

Originally Posted by A-Husker-4-Life

I'm all for banning the Helmet to Helmet hits but when it's a legal tackle with the shoulder, the player shouldn't be suspended.

Agreed

[spleen1015]

What happens when someone dies from one of these hits? I think that is where we're going if things keep going as they are.

[AFShadow]

Originally Posted by molson

Ah yes, the seedy underbelly of "tough guy" fans who get all offended when the leage tries to prevent paralysis.

Yes, I find it humorous as well that these guys complaining about it our first not the ones going out there to get their heads knocked off and second wonder how many have even played organized football at the HS or college level. I heard this morning that the NFL's fast growing demographic is women under 40. I doubt that would continue to be the case if they start seeing players dying on the field on any given Sunday.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

What happens when someone dies from one of these hits? I think that is where we're going if things keep going as they are.

Well, if they're pussy enough to die, they shouldn't have been playing a man's sport in the first place.

[Butter]

I think there is some compromise area between "Two Hand Touch Tackle" and whatever bullshit James Harrison was doing against the Browns this weekend.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by molson

I think the thinking is:

Banning helmet launching hits and taking a strict approach on concussions = being a pussy (says people who would probably cry if they were in a car accident)

I see that line of thinking. But the article being linked to is about a guy getting a concussion. Then the poster suggests that the league sissify itself, then complains about that sissification in the very next sentence. Just confusing.

[JediKooter]

I'm sure Deion Sanders would approve.

[lighthousekeeper]

the solution is to ban helmets. then players would take it down a notch out of self interest.

[bronconick]

It seems that since playing any kind of defense against a passing attack is a penalty, and because the NFL and ESPN until very recently glorified in bone-jarring hits that defenses are forced to try to break up passes by hard hits and kids never learn how to tackle anyway, so they either fling themselves head first at the guy and knock his block off, or they fling themselves, miss him by five feet and the guy runs for another 15 yards.

[cuervo72]

I was watching the Eagles/Falcons game when that hit happened. I saw it, let out a huge oof/ugh/whatever and cringed. It was a hit that just didn't look good for anyone involved. Right after that though I said out loud "looked like a clean hit though." I still think that was clean.

While that game was in break I switched to Ravens/Pats. No more than five minutes later came the hit on Heap. THAT hit immediately struck me as dirty. THAT hit warrants a suspension, imo. The Robinson hit doesn't.

------

What I don't get is when kids started being taught to lead with their head. When I played, we were repeatedly told not to hit with our head down. Either hit with the shoulder and wrap or hit with your head up - neck bulled - with the facemask planted in the chest. Don't launch.

[molson]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

the solution is to ban helmets. then players would take it down a notch out of self interest.

I think it was Mike Ditka I heard talking about this this week. Going back to leather helments. It certainly makes sense to make helmets smaller and lighter if techology allows it. They're more weapon than protection right now.

[A-Husker-4-Life]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

the solution is to ban helmets. then players would take it down a notch out of self interest.

I love it, lets go back to the leather helmets...

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

as i understand it, concussions/head injuries have nothing to do with helmets it involves a sudden change of direction. like a ko in boxing it's not the blow that does the damage but your brain colliding violently with the inside of your skull.

[A-Husker-4-Life]

Maybe we can start handing out Fouls, 6 and your out of the game.. Oh wait, I believe that's a different sport...

[PilotMan]

I talked with a neighbor who is a sports medicine guy. He said that the concussion thing is going to fundamentally change the sport. From his perspective, the padding is one thing that may contribute to it. Guys simply don't feel the shots and are more willing to throw themselves out there. He seemed to think that the helmet did play a big part of it.

There has been a lot of focus on this area of the sport, and I have a feeling it will spill over into other sports as well, especially the gladiator sports.

Why are football players not required to wear mouthguards? If a boxer or a fighter gets hit in the jaw with his mouth hanging open he is going out. A mouthguard can at least keep your jaw firmly planted together to avoid that extra damage.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I was watching the Eagles/Falcons game when that hit happened. I saw it, let out a huge oof/ugh/whatever and cringed. It was a hit that just didn't look good for anyone involved. Right after that though I said out loud "looked like a clean hit though." I still think that was clean.

While that game was in break I switched to Ravens/Pats. No more than five minutes later came the hit on Heap. THAT hit immediately struck me as dirty. THAT hit warrants a suspension, imo. The Robinson hit doesn't.

I had the exact same reactions, in reverse order. I was awatching the Pats and saw the Merriweather hit live and went "come on Brandon, that was dirty" and thought the Falcons/Eagles one was just a sort of unfortunate collision, kind of.

I'm a Pats fan and I even thought Merriweather's previous hit on the TD catch at the goal line looked iffy. Sure, he ended up hitting over the guy, but he was leading with his head and I didn't like that one bit...

FM

[RendeR]

I'm all for the helmet to helmet stuff being suspensions, that should be pretty obvious, but The Dunta Robinson hit
? that was clean. it was a powerful shot to the chest, both men took a major blow, but it was clean. how can they suspend anyone for that one?

Then look at the pittsburgh game: harrison goes directly for the head on not one, but TWO plays, taking 2 browns players out of the game entirely, and is even unapologetic for it afterward. now THAT deserves a suspension.

This weekend had a large number of major shotsand a good number of those were cheap, dirty hits. I just hope the NFL is smart enough to hand out suspensions properly and not, as others have said, pussify the league by taking things too far.

[spleen1015]

I don't think taking away the big hits will hurt or pussify the sport at all.

Keeping players healthy is the goal. I like big hits just as much as the next guy. I loved that hit Keyshawn Johnson took a few years ago but something needs to be done before someone gets killed.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

The league has stated they are not changing the rules, just the enforcement. That reads to me that "big hits" are fine as long as they are legal. If its not legal, expect a suspension.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Then look at the pittsburgh game: harrison goes directly for the head on not one, but TWO plays, taking 2 browns players out of the game entirely, and is even unapologetic for it afterward. now THAT deserves a suspension.

agreed, these two hits looked really bad and the fact there were no on the field flags for either (I think) baffled me...

FM

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I talked with a neighbor who is a sports medicine guy. He said that the concussion thing is going to fundamentally change the sport. From his perspective, the padding is one thing that may contribute to it. Guys simply don't feel the shots and are more willing to throw themselves out there. He seemed to think that the helmet did play a big part of it.

There has been a lot of focus on this area of the sport, and I have a feeling it will spill over into other sports as well, especially the gladiator sports.

Why are football players not required to wear mouthguards? If a boxer or a fighter gets hit in the jaw with his mouth hanging open he is going out. A mouthguard can at least keep your jaw firmly planted together to avoid that extra damage.

I don't think I've seen many, if any, football players who don't wear mouth guards.

The equipment these days is designed to be as light and unobtrusive as possible so you don't even notice that you're wearing it (compared to the stuff 20 years ago, at least) and essentially makes players feel invincible. Think about it, if you don't think you're going to feel the pain of launching yourself at a guy, then why wouldn't you do it? Whereas 20 years ago you thought twice about doing the same thing because you knew you might not get up if you launched yourself. Cleats are better and the turf is faster so guys continue to try and get the most out of their bodies to keep that edge they need to be better than the other guy.

Same goes for hockey...the equipment and even the rinks themselves have changed so much that players don't think twice about doing something that they wouldn't have done 20 years ago because they knew back then it would inevitably end in disaster. The boards and glass never used to flex and absorb a collision like it does now so when you used to hit the glass it felt like hitting a brick wall...not like the ropes of a wrestling ring like they do now. The nets used to be unmovable in that they were held in place with metal pins (or the posts themselves were several inches longer and would sit in the holes in the ice) and in fact that is the only time I've ever broken a bone...I was hauled down on a partial breakaway and slid headfirst into the net and put out my hands to try and brace myself...the net never moved, but my wrist did.

I realize that the advances in equipment, etc...is trying to prevent injuries but on the other hand the players are using those benefits to push themselves closer to that "edge" they need to be on to stay ahead of the competition.

It's a catch-22...

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Well, if they're pussy enough to die, they shouldn't have been playing a man's sport in the first place.

Real men run the score up on handicapped kids and then die in violent collisions.

Just like Jesus.

[Warhammer]

I agree the Robinson hit was not illegal, that was why a flag was not thrown. The league needs to do more to educate the players on the dangers of concussions. Or, they need to start penalizing defensive players for lowering their head, whether the contact is initiated the head or not. On the Robinson play that is what he did. He lowered his head and wound up hitting Jackson in the shoulder.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I see that line of thinking. But the article being linked to is about a guy getting a concussion. Then the poster suggests that the league sissify itself, then complains about that sissification in the very next sentence. Just confusing.

For the record, I didn't get it either, and to be honest, I still don't get it. I'm with you.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I don't think taking away the big hits will hurt or pussify the sport at all.

Keeping players healthy is the goal. I like big hits just as much as the next guy. I loved that hit Keyshawn Johnson took a few years ago but something needs to be done before someone gets killed.

Maybe that is my problem. I don't believe that keeping players healthy is the goal. If that were the case, Mike Martz would be getting a phone call from the NFL about his role in getting his QBs "killed"

This idea that people want to see a player killed on the field is silly. No one wants that. I just feel like the NFL is only going far enough to protect the offensive side of the game. If,as Gregg Easterbrook suggested in his article on ESPN, Jeff Lurie or even better the NFL told Desean Jackson he would have to sit out the rest of the season, then I would feel better about the suggested goal.

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

IT'S AIN'T SPORTS UNLESS SOMEONE'S FUCKIN' LIMB MIGHT FLY OFF

This guy gets it.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

I agree the Robinson hit was not illegal, that was why a flag was not thrown. The league needs to do more to educate the players on the dangers of concussions. Or, they need to start penalizing defensive players for lowering their head, whether the contact is initiated the head or not. On the Robinson play that is what he did. He lowered his head and wound up hitting Jackson in the shoulder.

A flag was thrown on the play. Gave the Eagles a first down.

While Dunta didn't hit Jackson in the head, he clearly lowered his head and led with the helmet. There is no need for that type of play in the game. If he keeps his head up, neither player is hurt as bad as they were. He led with his helmet like a missile and was the reason both players were hurt.

Flags were not thrown on either of Harrisons dirty hits.

[ShaneTheMaster]

It is impossible for the DB to fully prevent this in a split second and aggresivelly go for a tackle. What if he goes for the upper body, but the WR lowers his body? The DB can not 100% prevent a helmet to helmet collision.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

agreed, these two hits looked really bad and the fact there were no on the field flags for either (I think) baffled me...

FM

FTR, an NFL official said that the first hit on Cribbs was completely legal from the NFL's definition for it. The second hit only resulted because the receiver went down and put his head down because he was bobbling the ball. Had he been upright with the ball in his hands the hit would have been squarely in the chest. But apparently the NFL will not differentiate between those instances and the blatant ones like in the NE-BAL game.

Now, the both hits look bad. Harrison's a dick for saying he doesn't care if guys get hurt. The first hit on Cribbs he simply leads with his head, no up front at all. Clearly not a tackle from my perspective. The second hit looks more padish.

[PilotMan]

Also the league went on record saying that they would rather have a rash of career ending knee injuries than life altering head injuries.

[Aylmar]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

FTR, an NFL official said that the first hit on Cribbs was completely legal from the NFL's definition for it. The second hit only resulted because the receiver went down and put his head down because he was bobbling the ball. Had he been upright with the ball in his hands the hit would have been squarely in the chest. But apparently the NFL will not differentiate between those instances and the blatant ones like in the NE-BAL game.

Now, the both hits look bad. Harrison's a dick for saying he doesn't care if guys get hurt. The first hit on Cribbs he simply leads with his head, no up front at all. Clearly not a tackle from my perspective. The second hit looks more padish.

Per Tomlin, Harrison executed the play exactly as he is coached:

James had his arms down on the hit of Josh Cribbs. Has form tackling become a lost art?

No, we coach form tackling. Hit-and-wrap tackling is essential. If you look at that play, the first man to make contact with him was a hit-and-wrap tackler, LaMarr Woodley. We teach the second man in to try and dislodge the ball because that’s what we desire. We want possession of the football. They both did exactly what we coach and what we ask them to do. The first man to confront Josh Cribbs was LaMarr Woodley. He came to balance, did a nice form wrap tackle. The second man in attempted to dislodge the ball on contact, and was able to do it. Of course it was recovered by Cleveland.

[Butter]

Great, except he dislodged the ball by spearing him in the helmet with his own helmet.

If that's what Tomlin is teaching, he should be fired.

[lungs]

Let's just sweep this whole concussion thing under the rug. Nothing to see here.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

I don't think I've seen many, if any, football players who don't wear mouth guards.

Look closer, Mike Golic was the one who brought it up, he said that he never wore one for his entire career. They are required in college, but not in the NFL. In fact, when I look I only see the occasional mouth guard being worn.

[spleen1015]

Yeah, I see a lot of guys who don't wear them.

EDIT - Have you ever seen Peyton Manning with a mouth piece?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by ShaneTheMaster

It is impossible for the DB to fully prevent this in a split second and aggresivelly go for a tackle. What if he goes for the upper body, but the WR lowers his body? The DB can not 100% prevent a helmet to helmet collision.

Teddy Bruschi on Sportscenter disagrees with you.

I'm going with him in this one.

[Aylmar]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Great, except he dislodged the ball by spearing him in the helmet with his own helmet.

If that's what Tomlin is teaching, he should be fired.

So what's the answer? Try and put your helmet on the ball to get it out of his hands (which I feel confident is a technique taught by nearly every competent defensive coach in the sport - even my Pop Warner coach was trying to teach us how to do it all those years ago), but only in cases where, in the split second before you hit him, you can be sure that your helmets won't collide? Would it have been better if Harrison's head had been up and he hit Cribb's helmet with his facemask instead of it glancing off the side of his incoming helmet? Sure, I won't argue that at all. I would point out, though, that not one person associated with the league has said that the play involving Cribbs was anything but a legal hit. Even the Browns have no problem with that particular play. The one we should be discussing is the second hit, not the first.

Helmet-to-helmet contact against a running back carrying the ball isn't against the rules. If you advocate changing that rule, okay, but then you have to force offensive players like Adrian Peterson not to lower their head when they make contact as much as you do defenders coming in to make the tackle. No one wants to see people get injured. I just think you have to be fair to both sides of the ball.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Teddy Bruschi on Sportscenter disagrees with you.

I'm going with him in this one.

Agreed. I think that's what I find the most amusing about all of this. The NFL says it's going to crack down and start suspending guys. I would bet money that just the threat of that will change how a lot of guys tackle. I'd bet even more money that after a handful of suspensions are handed out, 75% of these things will get cleared up within 2 weeks.

Rodney Harrison, one of the cheapest, dirtiest players the league has ever seen says you can avoid these hits. He's the guy who put many of those type of hits on and he thinks they are avoidable.

Football will be just find without these shots in the game.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Look closer, Mike Golic was the one who brought it up, he said that he never wore one for his entire career. They are required in college, but not in the NFL. In fact, when I look I only see the occasional mouth guard being worn.

I guess I'll have to do just that.

Just seems that every time cameras pickup a player after a play the first thing you see is the mouth guard go into some part of the face mask.