2014 FIFA World Cup

[bob]

I missed the first half, but the second half seemingly had a lot of calls Brazil's way. Obviously the PK. And while someone here said that call against the player challenging the keeper is made all the time, I sure didn't see anything worthy of blowing the whistle. And finally, while I'll admit watching on a phone so potentially I saw it wrong, it looked to me like Brazil gained position on that third goal by fouling a Croatian player, thus leading to the break. Again, maybe I was wrong on that.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by whomario

Also, this was one bad decicion (imo yellow for Neymar was fine, that is never given a red) and not a string of biased decicions. Hold your horses, maybe ...

Half the referees in the Eredivisie would have shown Neymar a red card there the other half a yellow card, depending on how well they saw the situation. When you see the replay, you can see clearly it was an intentional foul. But it takes a very brave referee to send off Neymar in Brazil.

I agree that the no-goal for Croatia was a text book example of a foul on the goalkeeper, despite that the goalkeeper was blundering.

Doesn't take away that Croatia was making too many mistakes when pressured by Brazil. In the last ten minutes, Croatia kept trying, but lost their head when it counted, going into foul mode. Brazil got lucky at times, but it evens out the unlucky 1-0. The result deserves some asterisks, but the better (less mistakes making team) won.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by bob

I missed the first half, but the second half seemingly had a lot of calls Brazil's way. Obviously the PK. And while someone here said that call against the player challenging the keeper is made all the time, I sure didn't see anything worthy of blowing the whistle. And finally, while I'll admit watching on a phone so potentially I saw it wrong, it looked to me like Brazil gained position on that third goal by fouling a Croatian player, thus leading to the break. Again, maybe I was wrong on that.

Think the ref kept the game flowing personally. About thirty seconds before the 3rd goal, in the Croatian attack that led to Modric's shot and Cesar's save, there was an incident exactly the same as the one you referred to but in reverse: Marcelo thought he was fouled, but play went on.

If you only look at the moments you highlight you could infer a bit of home bias, but overall, with the exception of the penalty that I thought was very soft, I don't think Brazil got overly favoured

[MIJB#19]

By the way, the referee isn't a nobody, he guided a quarterfinal in 2010 and was the 4th referee in the final, although that quarterfinal was the one where Brazil got knocked out.

[ColtCrazy]

Yeah, the PK decision ruined what was a pretty good opening game. Hoping that's not the trend this year. Croatia really took it to them and were unlucky not to score a few times. Will be an interesting group the rest of the way assuming Brazil isn't gifted anymore goals (though Oscar's goal was a great shot).

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by bob

And finally, while I'll admit watching on a phone so potentially I saw it wrong, it looked to me like Brazil gained position on that third goal by fouling a Croatian player, thus leading to the break. Again, maybe I was wrong on that.

You're not alone, I had the same impression of the situation.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

I agree that the no-goal for Croatia was a text book example of a foul on the goalkeeper, despite that the goalkeeper was blundering.

Although that does get given 99 times out of 100, it wasn't actually a foul this time. Olic didn't jump into the keeper, he jumped straight up. He didn't put his arms between the keeper's arm to distract the catch, or his hands on the keeper at all. He just got up first before the keeper.

But GKs are similar to QBs in getting over protected, and unfortunately in that instance it's not the decision that is controversial, it's the fact that basically any challenge on a keeper when both are jumping is deemed to be a foul.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by AlexB

Although that does get given 99 times out of 100, it wasn't actually a foul this time. Olic didn't jump into the keeper, he jumped straight up. He didn't put his arms between the keeper's arm to distract the catch, or his hands on the keeper at all. He just got up first before the keeper.

But GKs are similar to QBs in getting over protected, and unfortunately in that instance it's not the decision that is controversial, it's the fact that basically any challenge on a keeper when both are jumping is deemed to be a foul.

Definitely.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Oh oh, for USA this isn't the best news. Portugal looks more than ready to go:

Ronaldo leads rampant Portugal to big win - FIFA.com

Latest news on Ronaldo is that he got hurt, again.

[cartman]

My PayPal to the witch doctor worked!!!

[DaddyTorgo]

That was some bullshit penalty call against Srna. Fred went down because he got tapped on the arm.

Horrible decision that fucked up a competitive game.

[flere-imsaho]

Terrible PK call. I don't blame the ref on it, though, as it would be easy to not see clearly.

By the way, for those of you who were asking, Univision is streaming all the games (except the last 8) on their iOS & Android apps. Be sure to download the app called "Univision Deportes", though, not the main Univision app.

I watched part of the game using the app, and it was excellent.

[DaddyTorgo]

Brazil didn't look great though. For a team with great WBs (Dani Alves & Marcelo) and deploying Hulk and Neymar (nominally) on the wings I though they lacked width. Everything seemed to be "feed the ball to Neymar" and he seemed to be more central than out on the wing most of the time.

I think the team might be lacking a central-playmaker, which is where someone like a Kaka or a Ronaldinho, or even a Ganso might have come in handy. Oscar can be that player too, but he didn't really show it today.

The pairing of Luiz Gustavo and Paulinho did nothing for me. They were basically invisible and Rakitic/Modric/Kovacic ran all over them. I'd rather see Hernanes and/or Ramires in there.

If it wasn't for the BS PK and then the disallowed Olic goal it's a much different game.

[bhlloy]

Main takeaway for me was how completely vulnerable Brazil looked down the flanks (especially their right) and if Croatia had some composure with their crosses and a better target on the end of them (Manduzukic was a big miss) then it could have still been a different result.

They need to sort that out or they will need to score more than 3 against the elite teams in the tournament. The wing backs are always going to push forward and leave gaps but you have to compensate somehow and that didn't happen at all. I do agree with what you said about the 2 DCM's - they were very poor/invisible and I'd expect Fernandinho to get the start for the next game.

EDIT - to add the talk pre tournament was this was a new defensively responsible Brazil and that wasn't the case at all, they looked completely the opposite, like a team that has to score 3 or 4 to win. Julio Cesar is a liability as well, got bailed out on the disallowed goal and he's just not good in the air or commanding his box (although I do agree that 9 out of 10 times that foul gets called on the goalie in todays game, even if I don't like it)

[whomario]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Brazil didn't look great though. For a team with great WBs (Dani Alves & Marcelo) and deploying Hulk and Neymar (nominally) on the wings I though they lacked width. Everything seemed to be "feed the ball to Neymar" and he seemed to be more central than out on the wing most of the time.

I think the team might be lacking a central-playmaker, which is where someone like a Kaka or a Ronaldinho, or even a Ganso might have come in handy. Oscar can be that player too, but he didn't really show it today.

The pairing of Luiz Gustavo and Paulinho did nothing for me. They were basically invisible and Rakitic/Modric/Kovacic ran all over them. I'd rather see Hernanes and/or Ramires in there.

Some disagreements here, hope you don´t mind

Oscar was on the right wing basically all game, Neymar in the middle but sometimes drifting out. Was a conscious decision by Scolari to switch that up. Problem was that Alves had a craptastic game on both ends and kept on missing the holes on offense that Oscar kept creating, who in my eyes had a really good game.

Imo it is a good decicion, because that way you have Neymar where he can do the most roaming without hurting the stability of the formation and also can be most easily hidden defensively (especially with Fred dropping back considereably at times). And i thought Neymar had a really good game, even aside from the goal. Not everything worked (a few too many easy mistakes trying to deliver passes or running at the defense), but he definitely stepped up and made himself available to his teammates and didn´t shy away from putting in the work.

I personally think that Hulk is the weak link in that arrangement, he seems kind of out of place on the left wing (as opposed to the right, where he played a lot previously)

I did not see Gustavo/Paulinho getting run all over, at all. The croatian midfield had a strong game, but mostly on defense imo. On offense their main weapon was getting the ball to the left early and often (again, Alves was unbelievably bad) to Olic and then try to cross it.

Paulinho was definitely not all that good, but imo Gustavo had a flawless game in the role he has to play. I would swap Paulinho for Ramires personally.

[Butter]

A team with a world class GK wins that game 1-0.

Or, as an FM fan, I now know what a GK with an agility of "1" looks like in the real world.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by whomario

Some disagreements here, hope you don´t mind

Oscar was on the right wing basically all game, Neymar in the middle but sometimes drifting out. Was a conscious decision by Scolari to switch that up. Problem was that Alves had a craptastic game on both ends and kept on missing the holes on offense that Oscar kept creating, who in my eyes had a really good game.

Imo it is a good decicion, because that way you have Neymar where he can do the most roaming without hurting the stability of the formation and also can be most easily hidden defensively (especially with Fred dropping back considereably at times). And i thought Neymar had a really good game, even aside from the goal. Not everything worked (a few too many easy mistakes trying to deliver passes or running at the defense), but he definitely stepped up and made himself available to his teammates and didn´t shy away from putting in the work.

I personally think that Hulk is the weak link in that arrangement, he seems kind of out of place on the left wing (as opposed to the right, where he played a lot previously)

I did not see Gustavo/Paulinho getting run all over, at all. The croatian midfield had a strong game, but mostly on defense imo. On offense their main weapon was getting the ball to the left early and often (again, Alves was unbelievably bad) to Olic and then try to cross it.

Paulinho was definitely not all that good, but imo Gustavo had a flawless game in the role he has to play. I would swap Paulinho for Ramires personally.

Fair enough - I fast-forwarded thru the lineups so I didn't realize the Oscar/Neymar switch was deliberate and not a result of Neymar drifting inside and Oscar covering for him. Makes sense now that you mention that. Not sure I like it (for reasons I'll go into below), but where I saw them makes more sense. And I thought Oscar played alright, but again (back to my earlier point) the team lacked width in general. Too much "get the ball to Neymar" and not "overlapping down the wings with your WBs and AMs".

Agree on Dani Alves. Thought he offered nothing. Marcelo got forward into good positions a couple times, but again his final balls were lacking.

I thought Neymar played fine. I just think the offense looked incredibly one-dimensional/reliant on him, and I'm not sure I like him in the middle as much as you do. It makes him easier to mark out without sacrificing defensive shape with MC's dropping back and a DC stepping up, where if he's playing on the wing or even as a forward then he can drag the opponents more out of position and open spaces for the WBs and other midfielders.

I can't say I noticed Paulinho/Gustavo much at all. Now part of that is "that's their role" in a sense. I did notice a couple Paulinho gaffes and have no issue with swapping him out, but IMO given the other guys you have on the bench I don't think Gustavo did anything to lock-down his starting spot.

[cartman]

I wonder what MIJB and Icy have planned for this evening, say around 9pm their time. I'm guessing probably just a quiet meal in a local restaurant.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by cartman

I wonder what MIJB and Icy have planned for this evening, say around 9pm their time. I'm guessing probably just a quiet meal in a local restaurant.

[Coffee Warlord]

Go Cameroon!

[Abe Sargent]

Let's go Cameroon!!!

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

I'm in and in.

Ah, nuts. Looks like my 'dream picks' didn't get saved in the FOFC group.

[digamma]

I'm predicting an El Tie.

[cartman]

Mexico is putting a lot of pressure on early. Cameroon looks a bit unsettled in the back.

[Butter]

Either Cameroon is TERRIBLE or Mexico has figured out their shit since qualifying.

[cartman]

The usual chant of 'Puto' on an opponent's goal kick traveled with the Mexican fans to Brazil.

[Abe Sargent]

Cameroon showign life again though

[cartman]

Eto'o should have buried that

[Butter]

WTF, you are allowed to just pull people down on corner kicks now? Jesus.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

WTF, you are allowed to just pull people down on corner kicks now? Jesus.

Probably the refs making up one mistake (called fpfisde goal for Mexico) equalling another (no called PK for Cameroon).....

[Abe Sargent]

Another offsides?

[BYU 14]

Officiating is off to a great start again, three significant blown calls already.

[cartman]

Right call. A Cameroon player touched the ball.

[MIJB#19]

There goes another referee off after just one game.

[Butter]

Yes, that one was correct.

[SirFozzie]

Semi-tangentially related but..

Germany's Franz Beckenbauer has been barred from all footballing activities for 90 days for refusing to assist in the probe of the Qatar 2022 World Cup Bid.

Beckenbauer banned for snubbing Qatar probe

[cartman]

I think that after the ref turned around after talking to him, the Mexican coach put the "evil eye" on him.

[Izulde]

Mexico got screwed on that first goal for sure.

[cartman]

Offside is a pretty convoluted rule. On the surface it seems straightforward, but there are all sorts of nuances. If I remember correctly, on a corner kick, you are considered offside it you receive a ball in a favorable position if it bounces off of the crossbar or an opposing player while you are in an offside position.

[Abe Sargent]

whoa

[Butter]

Am I the only person who is slightly annoyed that the ESPN Mexico announcers are probably more pro-Mexico than the ESPN US announces are pro-US? I am NOT rooting for Mexico. Just stop.

[cartman]

That should have been at least a yellow there on Cameroon

[Butter]

A clear card? No it wasn't.

[cartman]

Usually studs to the ankle draws a card

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by cartman

Offside is a pretty convoluted rule. On the surface it seems straightforward, but there are all sorts of nuances. If I remember correctly, on a corner kick, you are considered offside it you receive a ball in a favorable position if it bounces off of the crossbar or an opposing player while you are in an offside position.

Yes, you are considered offsides after these events if you were previously in an offsides position, but at what point was he in an offside position? It wasn't at the time of the corner itself, because you can't be offsides when a corner is struck.

I think it was a terrible call. If it had deflected off a teammate, then, yes, the goal-scorer would have been in an offside position at that moment.

[Butter]

Both sides starting to roll around on the ground a little too much.

[Butter]

Shit, that was close.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Yes, you are considered offsides after these events if you were previously in an offsides position, but at what point was he in an offside position? It wasn't at the time of the corner itself, because you can't be offsides when a corner is struck.

I think it was a terrible call. If it had deflected off a teammate, then, yes, the goal-scorer would have been in an offside position at that moment.

I think that on a corner kick, due to the fact you can't be offside at the moment of the kick, the offside rules come into play when the ball touches a player or the crossbar.

[Abe Sargent]

And there you are

[MIJB#19]

Just as I was about to post the game got boring and turned into a butchering game, well, there's that.