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Old 11-21-2020, 08:53 AM   #6851
PilotMan
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I guess we can all stop guessing on whether or not Sweden was doing it right. They are drowning in covid and the official stance is now lock yourself down. Their numbers are off the charts compared to their neighboring countries.
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Old 11-21-2020, 09:04 AM   #6852
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Originally Posted by PilotMan View Post
How long has it been since pence declared victory again?

Correct answer?

June 16.

There Isn’t a Coronavirus ‘Second Wave’ | The White House
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Old 11-21-2020, 09:47 AM   #6853
NobodyHere
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So what is Indiana's policy on funerals nowadays?
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Old 11-23-2020, 10:42 AM   #6854
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The article basically says the impact of Covid has gotten some European countries to think about universal income and some are piloting it.

For purely selfish reasons, I would love to see it happen. I could live on $1,423 a months + savings (until SSN kicks in) if that meant not having to work again. But as a realist and just like how large number in the US has a different take on guns vs ROW, we have a different mentality ... I just don't see it happening universally in the US.

However, I am very interested in the results of the trials/pilots.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/23/econo...mic/index.html
Quote:
In Germany, millions of people applied to join a study of universal basic income that will provide participants with 1,200 ($1,423) a month, while in the United Kingdom, more than 100 lawmakers including Jardine are pushing the government to start similar trials.
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Old 11-23-2020, 11:24 AM   #6855
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UBI is inevitable eventually, but I think we're a few decades away yet from it actually happening. At least in the US.
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Old 11-23-2020, 11:44 AM   #6856
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Originally Posted by Brian Swartz View Post
UBI is inevitable eventually, but I think we're a few decades away yet from it actually happening. At least in the US.

I think it's probably a decade or two away from happening but if you told me you were from the future and said it was 2070 and it was just implemented, I wouldn't be shocked (ok, I'd be shocked about the "from the future" part but you get what I mean).

I think more than a time horizon, it's going to take another Depression with automation destroying any recovery. I don't think we're there yet and I don't think this one is going to do it. But I do still think there's a non-zero chance that we get to next year and find the economy goes back into a freefall when government and Fed stimulus is completely removed.

SI
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Old 11-23-2020, 12:26 PM   #6857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward64 View Post
The article basically says the impact of Covid has gotten some European countries to think about universal income and some are piloting it.

For purely selfish reasons, I would love to see it happen. I could live on $1,423 a months + savings (until SSN kicks in) if that meant not having to work again. But as a realist and just like how large number in the US has a different take on guns vs ROW, we have a different mentality ... I just don't see it happening universally in the US.

However, I am very interested in the results of the trials/pilots.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/23/econo...mic/index.html

I would love to see it happen too. I would strongly consider retiring.

However I am skeptical of it working right now. How will it affect inflation? How will we pay for it? We're looking at 3 trillion dollars a year for the US minimum. How will it affect the labor force?

With that said, I really hope some country (that's not mine) does give it a full scale run instead of these measly tests that have come in the past. I'd be extremely interested in the results.
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Old 11-23-2020, 12:34 PM   #6858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterlingice
I think more than a time horizon, it's going to take another Depression with automation destroying any recovery. I don't think we're there yet and I don't think this one is going to do it. But I do still think there's a non-zero chance that we get to next year and find the economy goes back into a freefall when government and Fed stimulus is completely removed.

I'm not sure it will require quite that much, but it might. I think a lot of it is just the current people dying and new generations replacing them - kind of like how some people go ape over self check-out lanes but younger people are mostly 'why wouldn't I want that?'. At a certain point people don't want to accept new things, but once most of the people left alive are from a generation when this was being talked about seriously at some level ... it gets a lot easier to implement at that stage.
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Old 11-23-2020, 06:48 PM   #6859
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How will we pay for it?

Make billionaires pay more than $750 in taxes for starters.
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Old 11-24-2020, 01:32 AM   #6860
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https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/23/covi...the-park-.html
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Old 11-24-2020, 07:19 PM   #6861
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This is the Costco I go to.

I'm glad they are enforcing their policy and confronting the non-compliant. Looks like the guy just wanted to be a dick and using the 4th Amendment as an excuse. I was initially concerned about the son but then read he was an adult son. I hope Costco bans him for life.

https://www.forsythnews.com/news/pub...g-mask-costco/
Quote:
A video of a local man being placed in handcuffs outside the Costco on Bald Ridge Marina Road on Saturday, Nov. 21 has been making the rounds on social media, but both the local police and the man who was cited are saying there is more to the incident than the video shows.

On Saturday, local resident Cory Wayland was detained, placed into the back of a Cumming Police Department cruiser and cited with disorderly conduct after he and his son were asked to leave the store for his son reportedly not wearing a face mask, which is required by store policy.

While some of the online discourse has claimed the arrest was due to not wearing a mask, Cumming Police Chief David Marsh said Wayland was cited based on his conduct on the scene and for refusing to leave the store when he was asked to.

It didnt have anything to do with the mask other than thats what prompted the store to call us, Marsh told Forsyth County News on Monday. We certainly dont arrest people for not wearing masks. Thats not something that we enforce. It didnt have anything to do with that and it had everything to do with his behavior throughout that investigation and at the Costco.
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Old 11-24-2020, 07:22 PM   #6862
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i truly do not understand someone choosing that hill to die on.
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Old 11-24-2020, 07:32 PM   #6863
GrantDawg
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My wife was talking about being in Target today. They had kids up front asking people if they needed masks as they came in the store. She said people were just ugly to them, cussing them out. One lady made a big yelling ordeal about it and walked out. Classy place we live in.

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Old 11-24-2020, 07:38 PM   #6864
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Originally Posted by Edward64 View Post
Have my first dental cleaning of the year (I'm actually pretty overdue). Possibly need a new filling because I've got some sensitivity.

He's a good guy and its a decent size practice. I'm know he will be diligent on procedures and sanitation.

Just wondering if anyone else gone to the dentist recently and their experience?

FWIW, went to dentist today. All good.

Hand sanitizers everywhere; every other chair blocked off in the front room; everyone wore disposable garb, hair nets, masks and put on a face shield while doing the procedure; gargled with something at the beginning; could see them wiping down chairs; had a bucket for unclean pens (e.g. after I signed a doc) etc.

Unfortunately, back tomorrow morning for the start of a crown (vs filling).

Last edited by Edward64 : 11-24-2020 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 11-24-2020, 08:14 PM   #6865
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I had a cleaning and subsequent crown put on a couple of months ago. Everything went smoothly.
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Old 11-24-2020, 08:30 PM   #6866
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I don't want to derail the vaccine thread so I figured I use this catch all instead. Who are we calling essential workers when it comes to distribution of the vaccine? Using Florida as an example, are members of the WWE universe going to get the vaccine first as they are classified as essential workers?
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Old 11-24-2020, 08:38 PM   #6867
Thomkal
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Originally Posted by Edward64 View Post
FWIW, went to dentist today. All good.

Hand sanitizers everywhere; every other chair blocked off in the front room; everyone wore disposable garb, hair nets, masks and put on a face shield while doing the procedure; gargled with something at the beginning; could see them wiping down chairs; had a bucket for unclean pens (e.g. after I signed a doc) etc.

Unfortunately, back tomorrow morning for the start of a crown (vs filling).

Tis the season for crowns I guess, that's what I had done last. Thankfully don't have to go back until next year now. Glad it went well and that they were following Covid procedures
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Old 11-24-2020, 08:54 PM   #6868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksyrup View Post
Read this twitter thread. People are screaming about the Covid hoax while they are in the hospital dying.



Another take.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/cnn-si...ed-falls-apart
Quote:
The New York-based Zweig – who is an author and columnist who has written for The Atlantic, The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal, among other outlets – examined Doering’s claim, contacting other hospitals in the same area of South Dakota but nobody else seemed to have the same experience as the nurse who appeared on CNN.

The National Review also probed Doering’s story and didn’t find any other nurses in the area who witnessed the things she claimed.

I can believe maybe an incident but harder to believe multiple incidents. I may be wrong, but thinking she exaggerated for her 15 minutes of fame.

Last edited by Edward64 : 11-24-2020 at 08:54 PM.
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Old 11-24-2020, 09:04 PM   #6869
molson
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Originally Posted by miami_fan View Post
I don't want to derail the vaccine thread so I figured I use this catch all instead. Who are we calling essential workers when it comes to distribution of the vaccine? Using Florida as an example, are members of the WWE universe going to get the vaccine first as they are classified as essential workers?

Apparently Whole Foods, where my girlfriend works, has an early-distribution plan for its workers that they're setting up now. They're at least expecting to be close to the front of the line. I wonder if household members count, or maybe I get get an early one if I finally get hitched.

I have no idea how that will all work in practicality though. I think it's up to the state governments, who probably make arrangements with hospitals and schools and grocery stores, etc, to get to distribute to them first, I guess through a hospital clinic.

Last edited by molson : 11-24-2020 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 11-24-2020, 09:56 PM   #6870
miami_fan
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Originally Posted by molson View Post
Apparently Whole Foods has an early-distribution plan for its workers that they're setting up now. They're at least expecting to be close to the front of the line. I wonder if household members count, or maybe I get get an early one if I finally get hitched.

I have no idea how that will all work in practicality though. I think it's up to the state governments, who probably make arrangements with hospitals and schools and grocery stores, etc, to get to distribute to them first, I guess through a hospital clinic.

See this is where the arguments from earlier this summer makes things tricky. Well tricky is a relative term given what we will and will not remember in two months. Let's take schools. The reason it was fine to open up schools is that there was a small chance of the kids passing it around to each other and an even smaller chance of them getting really sick from it and the teachers just had to suck it up. Shouldn't that the last place we should be worry about vaccinating? That does not go into the stuff whomario talked about the different standards for kids vaccinations. On the other hand, it makes sense that Whole Foods is setting up their program. We need to keep the workforce going to keep the country from shutting down. They should get the vaccine first, no?
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Old 11-24-2020, 10:17 PM   #6871
miami_fan
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The state legislature better get going with their protect businesses from COIVD laws because the lawsuits are a-coming.

A Publix employee died from COVID-19. Now his family is suing over his death.
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Old 11-24-2020, 10:30 PM   #6872
sterlingice
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Originally Posted by miami_fan View Post
The state legislature better get going with their protect businesses from COIVD laws because the lawsuits are a-coming.

A Publix employee died from COVID-19. Now his family is suing over his death.

F McConnell and his liability shield. We want to pretend this is all about "personal responsibility" when we're not putting any institutional responsibility behind restrictions. It's all the fault of individuals and not the people in charge of running these larger systems.

I mean just look at the Costco incident above. Costco is sortof trying but I'm sure it's like most places - they're not going to turn away a customer not wearing a mask right. They're just putting lip service to it - no one's getting fired for not enforcing the policy. And the police said "we aren't going to enforce this" so it's not like a company is going to do it. And, of course, at the federal level, we've seen little helpful.

SI
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Old 11-25-2020, 07:30 AM   #6873
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It pretty clearly falls under workers compensation laws. Not sure why additional protections are needed for businesses.
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Old 11-25-2020, 07:41 AM   #6874
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It pretty clearly falls under workers compensation laws. Not sure why additional protections are needed for businesses.

The lawyers on the board can correct me if I am wrong but it seem pretty similar to the concussion cases in football. How do we know he got the virus in Publix as opposed to say while he was getting a haircut or working out in the gym?
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Old 11-25-2020, 08:24 AM   #6875
Flasch186
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Lawsuits often aren't about winning but trying to get a Nuisance Fee paid out. That's the real fear for small business (like mine). I shut my office down yesterday and am making everyone *basically work remotely for this very reason. While I trust my agents wholeheartedly, if one of them gets sick and god forbid gets really really sick or dies, I'm afraid of the lawsuits that will be lobbed my way. *Cancelling the Xmas party too.
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Old 11-25-2020, 01:14 PM   #6876
Ksyrup
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These people are SO stupid it actually hurts. Although in this case, this dude isn't stupid, but he knows the people he's speaking to are.

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Old 11-25-2020, 02:27 PM   #6877
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Did you ever notice that the people playing Russian roulette are much more likely to get shot than those who don't?
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Old 11-25-2020, 03:09 PM   #6878
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Did you ever notice that the people playing Russian roulette are much more likely to get shot than those who don't?

Yeah, but at least they are out there living and defending their freedom rather than letting themselves be forced to do the smart thing !

I mean, i just learned from like the 5th reply that democrats work from home AND LIKE IT ! The Bastards !

The replies are just mindblowing, perfect smorgasbord of every Covid19 conspiracy theory and 'skepticism' out there. If you told them they need to follow guidance for 3 days to kill off the Pandemic, they would still waste all 3 days arguing about how it isn't actually a Problem and none of the guidances do anything.
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Last edited by whomario : 11-25-2020 at 03:19 PM.
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Old 11-25-2020, 04:34 PM   #6879
molson
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Pfizer stays the first vaccinations in America will occur as early as December 11, or at worst the next week. Even though that initial roll-out is limited, I think our perspective on all of this is going to be so much more hopeful when millions of Americans will be vaccinated every month going forward.
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Old 11-25-2020, 05:42 PM   #6880
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Walked by maskless lady in target.
She was talking with another maskless commiserating that she was accosted in costco.
That's because you're a bitch.
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Old 11-27-2020, 01:12 PM   #6881
PilotMan
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Getting sick during a pandemic is a bit scary. My oldest came home from his job at the the College on Monday with a hacking cough and was just not feeling good. We kept pegging him with questions about his other symptoms, and watched him all week. By all appearances it looked like he had a shitty cold. No fever any more than a mid 99.

Then I got sick. But I always get sick this time of year. I have nearly chronic upper respiratory that frequently devolves into Bronchitis and sometimes Pneumonia. Exact same shallow hacking cough started Wednesday. Yesterday I felt like shit. Made it most of the day, no temp above 99.6 and ended up in bed early. Came around a bit later, but still not great. Sometime last night 'something' broke, because my bed was a mess because I was sweating all over. Woke up today feeling a lot better, except as expected, the cough is working its way down my lungs. Trying to keep it as clean as possible, but the fear that it's something more is always in the back of my mind. So far, it feels mostly normal, but that it could have been something else was nerve wracking. I've been waiting all this time to go back to training and now I'm supposed to go next week and spend 12 hours in a simulator. If I've got this cough, ain't no way that's happening. Nobody will want that. Totally frustrating.
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Old 11-27-2020, 02:24 PM   #6882
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Did you get tested for covid?
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Old 11-27-2020, 02:30 PM   #6883
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No, the system doesn't seem to be set up for any short notice tests. Scheduled yes, but they are almost 2 weeks out testing last time I looked and the symptoms don't seem bad enough to really warrant going to the dr.

I guess I'm lazy. There are quite a few places that take walk up appointments. We've talked about it, but still think it's all cold, not covid. No testing necessary.
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Last edited by PilotMan : 11-27-2020 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 11-27-2020, 02:57 PM   #6884
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They just started to offer quick antibody tests at the local supermarket pharmacies around here, and I am debating getting one, purely out of curiosity.
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Old 11-28-2020, 11:16 AM   #6885
Flasch186
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Originally Posted by PilotMan View Post
No, the system doesn't seem to be set up for any short notice tests. Scheduled yes, but they are almost 2 weeks out testing last time I looked and the symptoms don't seem bad enough to really warrant going to the dr.

I guess I'm lazy. There are quite a few places that take walk up appointments. We've talked about it, but still think it's all cold, not covid. No testing necessary.

Shrug

I drove up and did a test through my driver's side window and had the results in a few hours. Took multiple tests while my wife and son had it and luckily all of mine were negative. Could one be wrong? Sure, but that's why in statistics you do a bunch of tests and throw out the anomalies.
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Old 11-28-2020, 05:21 PM   #6886
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I was being passive/aggressive towards a couple people today. We have a mask mandate in our county and they had their masks below their nose. So I was making comments and turning my head.

Then one old lady responded she had emphysema. As she was buying her cigarettes, I had to make a comment bout health care costs.

Yes, I was being an asshole today. It has been awhile since I have been.

As I left the station, I got a loud " SUCK MY DICK"

It was a great visit to the gas station
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Old 11-28-2020, 05:23 PM   #6887
Brian Swartz
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Wow.
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Old 11-28-2020, 08:27 PM   #6888
JPhillips
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My daughter's best friend in elementary school lost her grandmother to COVID today.
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Old 11-28-2020, 08:47 PM   #6889
PilotMan
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tarcone is just a commie loving sheep.
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Old 11-29-2020, 01:50 AM   #6890
NobodyHere
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tarcone is just a commie loving sheep.
... who apparently visits seedy gas stations.
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Old 11-29-2020, 01:08 PM   #6891
molson
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I love how the media is treating the vaccine like its a celebrity, or a member of the royal family.

Pfizer’s COVID-19 Vaccine Arrives at Chicago’s O’Hare Airport: Source – NBC Chicago

Last edited by molson : 11-29-2020 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 11-29-2020, 02:09 PM   #6892
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I love how the media is treating the vaccine like its a celebrity, or a member of the royal family.

Pfizers COVID-19 Vaccine Arrives at Chicagos OHare Airport: Source NBC Chicago

Pretty plane.
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Old 11-29-2020, 04:41 PM   #6893
Drake
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Originally Posted by NobodyHere View Post
... who apparently visits seedy gas stations.

Or, as we say in rural Indiana, just "gas stations"...
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Old 11-30-2020, 09:25 AM   #6894
Edward64
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I'm okay with Trump saying states get to make the decision and allocation is based on states' population. Arguably it would be better on a Federal level but I lean towards a state would be better to make the "hard" decisions assuming vaccines are available proportionately by population and some sort of "guidance" is given on the Federal level.

In states with high illegal population, no idea if they would be counted in the proportional allocation but interesting dilemma. If illegal status is not taken into account, every illegal getting a shot early means one less US citizen/PR getting a shot. With a limited supply early on, this question has heightened importance. My guess is ethicists would say do not consider whether a person is illegal or not.

FWIW, I did consider if this was better in the Trump thread; but decided better here as the distribution & prioritization of vaccines is really the more important focus.

Trump administration leaves states to grapple with how to distribute scarce vaccines - POLITICO
Quote:
The Trump administration is shunting to the states hard decisions about which Americans will get the limited early supplies of coronavirus vaccines — setting up a confusing patchwork of distribution plans that could create unequal access to the life-saving shots.

Federal and state officials agree that the nation’s 21 million health care workers should be first in line. But there is no consensus about how to balance the needs of other high-risk groups, including the 53 million adults aged 65 or older, 87 million essential workers and more than 100 million people with medical conditions that increase their vulnerability to the virus.

The Trump administration has told states that they have ultimate authority for determining who gets vaccinated first. It has also decided to allocate scarce early doses based on states’ total populations, forcing hard choices in states with a greater proportion of residents at high risk
:
"I don’t expect the states to make uniform decisions,” he told POLITICO. “Some may prefer long-term care facilities or the elderly, while others may prioritize their health care workers. It would be wrong to immunize 18-year-olds first. I hope no one does that. But otherwise it’s shades of gray.”

Last edited by Edward64 : 11-30-2020 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 11-30-2020, 12:06 PM   #6895
JPhillips
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I'd prefer a federal response but with the ability of a state to petition for a change. The big problem with state level decisions is that people don't stay within state boundaries.
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Old 11-30-2020, 02:36 PM   #6896
GrantDawg
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Join Date: Nov 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPhillips View Post
I'd prefer a federal response but with the ability of a state to petition for a change. The big problem with state level decisions is that people don't stay within state boundaries.
Probably 6-in-one. Both have positives and negatives. I would hope the guideline regardless would be hospital works, front-line workers, and then essential workers.
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Old 11-30-2020, 03:02 PM   #6897
whomario
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Originally Posted by molson View Post
I love how the media is treating the vaccine like its a celebrity, or a member of the royal family.

Pfizers COVID-19 Vaccine Arrives at Chicagos OHare Airport: Source NBC Chicago

PPE and Ventilators got the same treatment in the spring (complete with staged photoops), i'm hardly surprised. Or remember that hospital ship ?
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Old 11-30-2020, 09:42 PM   #6898
NobodyHere
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Originally Posted by JPhillips View Post
I'd prefer a federal response but with the ability of a state to petition for a change. The big problem with state level decisions is that people don't stay within state boundaries.

I prefer a response that keeps Trump away from any decision-making.
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Old 11-30-2020, 09:55 PM   #6899
Edward64
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Originally Posted by NobodyHere View Post
I prefer a response that keeps Trump away from any decision-making.

That is a good point for it to be a state's call.
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Old 12-01-2020, 09:41 AM   #6900
Ghost Econ
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Join Date: Oct 2020
So an analysis of blood donations from last December show some Americans had antibodies specific to this particular Coronavirus strain, which would imply that some people had it prior to then.

Additionally, a new study in Italy that went through samples from a specific cancer trial showed similar things in patients from September 2019.

No idea what to make if it, though.
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