The Trump Presidency – 2016

[JPhillips]

Even if the lawsuit won't go anywhere it's good to get the discussion going. The GOP gets away with a lot without any counter-messaging from the left.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I think there's a significant part of the Trump voting block that would never vote for a woman for President, but maybe I'm wrong

SI

Weren't pretty much all flipped house seats due to female republican candidates ?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by whomario

Weren't pretty much all flipped house seats due to female republican candidates ?

Most were, but I think there's a difference between being in Congress or even VP and being the President.

SI

[Thomkal]

Trump loses again, this one in federal court in PA. Judge not happy at all with them and closes the case with prejudice-this is the one Rudy argued.

[GrantDawg]

They just sent a wing of B-52's to an unknown location in the Middle East.

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[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

They just sent a wing of B-52's to an unknown location in the Middle East.

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If that's a thing, they are certainly going to Diego Garcia.

[GrantDawg]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-milita...mpression=true

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[Edward64]

Israeli sources are saying Netanyahu flew to SA and met with MBS & Pompeo. SA Foreign Minister is denying it (but would he even know, and if he did, would he fess up?). I can see Trump doing a full court press to get this done before he leaves office.

I don't know Blinken's approach on ME but it would make sense to me, all things held equal, that SA would make a big show, ask for concessions, and give the "win" to Biden (vs lame duck Trump/Pompeo) to help relationships in the next 4 years.

Regardless, hoping SA will join the fold to normalize relations with Israel.

[Qwikshot]

Probably the luckiest thing is that Biden probably has an established network to talk with certain powers to counter Trump's dangerous activities. I think most of the world is done with Trump and even if there are a boatload of deplorables here happy to burn down the US. Most world leaders see such instability as a danger and will do everything to stabilize.

Trump really is a danger and threat to everyone, he should be dealt with like a rabid dog.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

Probably the luckiest thing is that Biden probably has an established network to talk with certain powers to counter Trump's dangerous activities. I think most of the world is done with Trump and even if there are a boatload of deplorables here happy to burn down the US. Most world leaders see such instability as a danger and will do everything to stabilize.

Trump really is a danger and threat to everyone, he should be dealt with like a rabid dog.

You don't see UAE, Bahrain & possibly SA normalizing relationships with Israel as a good thing? or you don't think Trump & co. deserves the credit?

I think yes for the former and do think Trump & co gets credit for this push, he was somehow able to threaten, cajole, bribe etc. UAE & Bahrain to do it and doubt Hillary would have been as successful.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by Edward64

You don't see UAE, Bahrain & possibly SA normalizing relationships with Israel as a good thing? or you don't think Trump & co. deserves the credit?

I think yes for the former and do think Trump & co gets credit for this push, he was somehow able to threaten, cajole, bribe etc. UAE & Bahrain to do it and doubt Hillary would have been as successful.

Trump deserves nothing but prison.

[I. J. Reilly]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Israeli sources are saying Netanyahu flew to SA and met with MBS & Pompeo. SA Foreign Minister is denying it (but would he even know, and if he did, would he fess up?). I can see Trump doing a full court press to get this done before he leaves office.

I don't know Blinken's approach on ME but it would make sense to me, all things held equal, that SA would make a big show, ask for concessions, and give the "win" to Biden (vs lame duck Trump/Pompeo) to help relationships in the next 4 years.

Regardless, hoping SA will join the fold to normalize relations with Israel.

I mean, how much will it really change the way that the region is no longer relevant to us? We’ve already achieved the holy grail of ME policy, through domestic production and renewables their oil can be safely ignored now when the US is forming foreign policy. That’s the game changer. Whatever Netanyahu or MBS are doing it’s for domestic reasons. So we can give Trump credit for falling for that con one last time I guess.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by I. J. Reilly

I mean, how much will it really change the way that the region is no longer relevant to us? We’ve already achieved the holy grail of ME policy, through domestic production and renewables their oil can be safely ignored now when the US is forming foreign policy. That’s the game changer.

Although we are now producing a lot more domestic oil, we still import about 9M+ barrels a day because of different grades of crude. I do agree that is where we want to be, we shouldn't be getting into stuff in the ME because we need the oil. Definitely going in the right direction, I just don't think we are there yet ... maybe, 20+ years?

Whatever Netanyahu or MBS are doing it’s for domestic reasons. So we can give Trump credit for falling for that con one last time I guess.

It's primarily regional vs domestic, and I think why it'll happen is because of Iran. Enemy of a bigger enemy is my frenemy. Iraq & Yemen is the battleground proxy. SA stands no chance militarily against Iran so they have to make friends.

For Netanyahu, the added bonus is the Palestinian issue is more and more irrelevant as Arab countries now are more concerned about Iran (and other stuff) than the Palestinians.

US will stay in the region to counter Iran by supporting Israel and the frenemies. I'm not sure China's stance here with Iran vs SA, have to read up more about that.

[CrimsonFox]

Trump Exits Open Skies Treaty, Moves to Discard Observation Planes - WSJ

So Trump pulled the US out of the Open Skies treaty and is destroying the observation planes...so no more getting surveillance from Russia for us and our allies.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Trump Exits Open Skies Treaty, Moves to Discard Observation Planes - WSJ

So Trump pulled the US out of the Open Skies treaty and is destroying the observation planes...so no more getting surveillance from Russia for us and our allies.

Why does it always go back to Russia?


It is stuff like this that just makes me want to scream. He is not hiding his attempt to harm our country. It is not in the least bit covert. He his doing it in plain sight. Just like his attempt to steal the election. Remember the Post Master General destroying expensive sorting equipment? I mean, these things aren't even subtle. The sudden pull out of Syria? The constant middle finger to our Allies? Yet, the supposed Super Patriots go along with it. They have the help of the enabling "it really is no big deal" people, along with the "but he helped my 401k" crew. Agh!

[Edward64]

Don't know what the WSJ article says but the CNN article said Russia does not always adhere to it. However, European allies want it because I guess something is better than nothing. And we have shared satellite photos with the allies.

Don't know all the pros and cons but this particular treaty doesn't seem that compelling to me.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/22/polit...ies/index.html

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Don't know what the WSJ article says but the CNN article said Russia does not always adhere to it. However, European allies want it because I guess something is better than nothing. And we have shared satellite photos with the allies.

Don't know all the pros and cons but this particular treaty doesn't seem that compelling to me.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/22/polit...ies/index.html

It is so unimportant, that they have ordered the planes disassembled to make sure the treaty can't be re-enacted. Sounds like it is pretty important they make sure it is gone.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Why does it always go back to Russia?


It is stuff like this that just makes me want to scream. He is not hiding his attempt to harm our country. It is not in the least bit covert. He his doing it in plain sight. Just like his attempt to steal the election. Remember the Post Master General destroying expensive sorting equipment? I mean, these things aren't even subtle. The sudden pull out of Syria? The constant middle finger to our Allies? Yet, the supposed Super Patriots go along with it. They have the help of the enabling "it really is no big deal" people, along with the "but he helped my 401k" crew. Agh!

I’ve been thinking about this a lot over the last couple of days, and in particular his ‘I love the uneducated’ line in 2016. He knew even then that he could make people believe what he said regardless of facts or what other information was in the public domain, and was telling everyone, trolling us in fact

He may have had some genius by making people try to think what type of 3D politics he was playing, when he was just punching you in the face

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

It is so unimportant, that they have ordered the planes disassembled to make sure the treaty can't be re-enacted. Sounds like it is pretty important they make sure it is gone.

link?

[kingfc22]

Trump Exits Open Skies Treaty, Moves to Discard Observation Planes - WSJ

A senior U.S. official said the planes are being designated as “excess defense articles,” which means they can be given to foreign partners at reduced or no cost.

“We’ve started liquidating the equipment,” the official said. “Other countries can come purchase or just take the airframes. They are really old and cost-prohibitive for us to maintain. We don’t have a use for them anymore.”

[Comey]

I found this. Unsure how a vote would go to rejoin, needing 2/3 to get there.

The US is Out of the Open Skies Treaty. What’s Next? - Air Force Magazine

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Comey

I found this. Unsure how a vote would go to rejoin, needing 2/3 to get there.

The US is Out of the Open Skies Treaty. What’s Next? - Air Force Magazine

A spokesperson for the 55th Wing at Offutt Air Force Base, Neb., which manages the aircraft and the 45th Reconnaissance Squadron, referred questions to the Office of the Secretary of Defense. An OSD spokesperson referred questions to U.S. Strategic Command at Offutt. A STRATCOM spokesperson referred questions to the State Department, which in turn directed queries back to the Pentagon. The Air Force declined to comment on the record.

Well, at least we have a clear explanation!

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Well, at least we have a clear explanation!

Military Efficiency!

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Comey

I found this. Unsure how a vote would go to rejoin, needing 2/3 to get there.

The US is Out of the Open Skies Treaty. What’s Next? - Air Force Magazine

I do think there are Republicans that would be for returning to the treaty, but even if not:
Pifer also suggested the U.S. could pursue an executive agreement to rejoin the treaty that could earn the votes of simple majorities in the House and Senate, and the approval of the other 33 Open Skies signatories.

[miami_fan]

I would prefer the media tell me who the President is not going to pardon. I suspect the list will be shorter.

[kingfc22]

Seriously.

[Thomkal]

Trump loses again in PA, this time with the US Court of Appeals 3rd Circuit who rules against him 3-0 with a Trump appointee writing the decision:

Court Rejects Trump Attempt To Overturn Pennsylvania Result

[GrantDawg]

If you really want to get conspiracy theory/tin foil hat... What if they are purposely puting through the weakest of lawsuits all the whilr making huge fraud claims in public forums to purposely further destroy the creditability of the courts in their cult members eye? Trump already has destroyed congress as a check in power, next up has to be the judicial system right? He tried to stack the courts, but has still run into those pesky judges that want to do their jobs.

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[Ksyrup]

The crazy thing is, in many of these lawsuits they aren't even alleging fraud! The appeal of the PA lawsuit that just got denied had no fraud allegations. I mean, if you just get that piece of information in front of his people, what is the explanation for that?

[Edward64]

Assume Israel did this with tacit approval/support from the US.

I guess this may delay their nuclear ambitions by 1-2 years (if that long) and/or this was to pick a fight to give Trump and Netanyahu an excuse.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/27/middl...ntl/index.html

Iran's top nuclear scientist was killed Friday in an alleged assassination that the country's foreign minister linked to Israel.

Mohsen Fakhrizadeh, considered one of the masterminds of Iran's controversial nuclear program, died after his car was apparently ambushed in a district east of Tehran. Photos from the scene showed the shattered windshield of a car, and blood on the road.

Iranian state media said the killing appeared to be an assassination. Iran's Defense Minister Brigadier General Amir Hatami was quoted by Iran's semi-official news agency ISNA as saying Fakhrizadeh was targeted by gunfire and a Nissan vehicle explosion, before a firefight ensued.

Iranian Foreign Minister Zarif called the death "cowardice -- with serious indications of Israeli role."

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office declined to comment to CNN.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Assume Israel did this with tacit approval/support from the US.

The assassination of Mohsen Fakhrizadeh (peace be upon him) is an unfortunate setback to Iran's nuclear weapons program, but I have confidence that the incoming administration can get them back on track, and perhaps offer more financial aid to their efforts.

Iranian nuclear program head Mohsen Fakhrizadeh assassinated

"In the last days of the political life of their ally (US President Donald Trump), the Zionists (Israel) seek to intensify pressure on Iran and create a full-blown war," commander Hossein Dehghan tweeted.

[CrimsonFox]

Hold him close, that Tiny Desker
Count the tantrums and the deuces
Lay him down to take his nap now
He's had a busy day today
#diaperdon

[whomario]

Operation scorched Earth seems to be going much better than the law suits and is hardly even making waves. Cleverly done.

Biden will be busy doing nothing but putting out fires and rolling back shit. Doing it just on environmental stuff would be a fulltime job in itself ...

[Edward64]

I wonder which staffer(s) made the call on the smaller desk.

I read somewhere it was normal to do a smaller desk when there was a bunch of people crowding around a seated Trump but even then I can't believe a small desk like that was used. Regardless, some one messed up.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I wonder which staffer(s) made the call on the smaller desk.

I read somewhere it was normal to do a smaller desk when there was a bunch of people crowding around a seated Trump but even then I can't believe a small desk like that was used. Regardless, some one messed up.

or knew exactly what they were doing

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

The assassination of Mohsen Fakhrizadeh (peace be upon him) is an unfortunate setback to Iran's nuclear weapons program, but I have confidence that the incoming administration can get them back on track, and perhaps offer more financial aid to their efforts.

Iranian nuclear program head Mohsen Fakhrizadeh assassinated

I seriously bet Trump and friends had something to do with it

[cuervo72]

Judging by the rest of the comment I'm going to assume VV is ok with that.

[thesloppy]

I've never quite understood the conservative stance on that particular 'scandal'. Trump withdrew from that treaty, didn't enact any other restrictions AND let Iran keep every single bit of their money, but Obama was the bad guy?

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I seriously bet Trump and friends had something to do with it

I don't. Not even sure Netanyahu called it, and not 100% sure it's the Israeli's & not some other agenda, but whoever did it definitely knew that this was a perfect time where they could pursue their agenda & will get almost no blowback (or coverage past Monday).

[JPhillips]

A little convenient that it happened shortly after Pompeo met with Bibi and MBS.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I don't. Not even sure Netanyahu called it, and not 100% sure it's the Israeli's & not some other agenda, but whoever did it definitely knew that this was a perfect time where they could pursue their agenda & will get almost no blowback (or coverage past Monday).

and they know that with trump, they'll get the tacit approval, where they won't with Biden. It's about playing to their strengths here.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I don't. Not even sure Netanyahu called it, and not 100% sure it's the Israeli's & not some other agenda, but whoever did it definitely knew that this was a perfect time where they could pursue their agenda & will get almost no blowback (or coverage past Monday).

that's an interesting take too and I would indeed believfe that as a possibility. EIther is possible. I mean the reps have been trying to force a war with iran for awhile and babydesk ordering some loyalists to make a kill is certainly something he would do. But sure doesn't mean he did.

[Edward64]

More details from the DailyMail. If true, quite a hit job.

Assassination of Iran's top nuclear scientist 'involved 62 people including 12 gunmen' | Daily Mail Online

As Iran puts executed nuclear chief's body on display, how he was taken out: Power to the entire region was cut as gun and bomb attack blasted convoy before he was dragged from car and finished off... then the 12 assassins melted away

Remarkable detail of the plot to kill an Iranian nuclear scientist emerged on Saturday, a day after the assassination of Mohsen Fakhrizadeh reverberated around the world.

Sixty two people were involved in the scheme, according to Mohamad Ahwaze, an Iranian journalist who exposed the extent of the COVID-19 pandemic in his country.

Ahwaze said he had obtained leaked Iranian information.

[AlexB]

The Daily Mail is not what I consider a reliable source. They may be spot on, but until I see it elsewhere, I’d err on the side of scepticism

[Galaril]

So I know I am “preaching to the choir”except for the right wingers oh and “libertarians” here but this assassination is so risky. Now Iran will absolutely retaliate and that could depending on how tied they are of these hit jobs could cause a war with Iran and Israel which would pull us ultimately into it. We eventually get into a shooting war someday with Iran and do not see that ending in a victory for us. Just another unstable Iraq mess at best and Jerusalem being wiped off the earth along with Tehran.SMH.

[Brian Swartz]

I don't see how it's inherently more risky than the other available options. There are no non-risky options with Iran.

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I've never quite understood the conservative stance on that particular 'scandal'. Trump withdrew from that treaty, didn't enact any other restrictions AND let Iran keep every single bit of their money, but Obama was the bad guy?

For entering the deal in the first place. Conservatives generally wanted no-restrictions inspections with a proven bad actor like Iran, or else no deal.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

For entering the deal in the first place. Conservatives generally wanted no-restrictions inspections with a proven bad actor like Iran, or else no deal.

I think that would be a valid complaint if there were any kind of inspections taking place either before that deal was made or after it was broken.

[Edward64]

I remember reading about the blockade but didn't realize it was still on. The US has a base and has been selling weapons to Qatar. Seems like we are playing both sides here (surprise).

White House senior adviser Jared Kushner and his team will travel to Saudi Arabia and Qatar this week for talks aimed at resolving the dispute between the neighbouring Gulf countries, according to media reports in the United States.
:
:
Kushner is eager to persuade the Saudi and Qatari leaders to reconcile and reach an agreement on a number of issues, Axios reported, citing US officials.

Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates (UAE), Bahrain and Egypt cut diplomatic ties and imposed a land, sea and air blockade on Qatar in 2017, accusing Doha of “supporting terrorism” and issuing a list of 13 demands.

[Edward64]

And now, we know the rest of the story ...

https://www.newsweek.com/rudy-giulia...t-back-1551034

After photos of Giuliani at the news conference circulated online, a number of commentators took to social media to discuss the drip, with many speculating that the incident was caused by a bad hair dye job. However, several Manhattan hairdressers told The New York Times that the substance on Giuliani's face was probably not caused by a hair dye job gone wrong.
:
:
"Hair dye doesn't drip like that, unless it's just been applied," Men's Lounge Barbershop's David Kholdorov said.

Mirko Vergani, the creative color director at the Drawing Room, told the Times that Giuliani's dark face drip appeared to be makeup or a touch-up pen that was used to blend in his side burns. "Sideburns are more gray than the rest of the head," he said. "You can apply mascara to touch the gray side up a bit so it looks more natural."

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Edward64

And now, we know the rest of the story ...

https://www.newsweek.com/rudy-giulia...t-back-1551034

Finally, I can sleep at night.