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Old 07-31-2019, 06:50 PM   #351
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I always assumed a lot of those degrees were targeted to people who wanted a higher degree to qualify for a promotion or ones that couldnt take a traditional college because of mostly life

That's changed now though with the proliferation of online programs from colleges and universities with reputable brands/brick & mortar presence. The for-profit scam colleges should be shut down and outlawed imo.
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Old 07-31-2019, 06:56 PM   #352
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I always assumed a lot of those degrees were targeted to people who wanted a higher degree to qualify for a promotion or ones that couldnt take a traditional college because of mostly life

They target people by making them think those degrees will accomplish that, but in reality they don't.
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Old 07-31-2019, 06:57 PM   #353
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Old 07-31-2019, 07:05 PM   #354
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I always assumed a lot of those degrees were targeted to people who wanted a higher degree to qualify for a promotion or ones that couldnt take a traditional college because of mostly life

At least in the Army, "schools" like Phoenix and Excelsior have been promoted to soldiers as great way to increase your chances of promotion by maxing the educational component of the promotion process.

They get your GI bill money, you get a worthless degree and promotion points, and then when you get out you find that a degree from those schools is valued less than a high school diploma. So, if you actually have the time to see it through, it can help speed up a promotion into the Jr NCO ranks. However, that's not worth anything close to what you're paying from your GI bill to those schools.

And the current administration is doing everything they can to protect and de-regulate these schools. But increases in defense spending means they love the military right?
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:23 PM   #355
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What were people cheering during Bookers speech?
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:42 PM   #356
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Has anyone say cap medicine prices? I heard not letting them raise prices above inflation but when isulin is already $350 a bottle, thats useless
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:45 PM   #357
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Has anyone say cap medicine prices? I heard not letting them raise prices above inflation but when isulin is already $350 a bottle, thats useless

I've only heard the usual "negotiate the cost of drugs".
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:49 PM   #358
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Biden is not the man the dems want to run. Trump will abuse him in debates.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:50 PM   #359
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For those in favor of medicare for all, how do you feel about someone like Donald Trump being in charge of your healthcare? Even if a Bernie Sanders wins in 2020 and signs medicare for all, there will be a republican president again.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:52 PM   #360
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Everytime someone says "Right Wing Talking Point",

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Old 07-31-2019, 08:53 PM   #361
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I have not researched this and am only guessing at numbers.

But wouldnt a flat tax rate of, say, 20% and cutting defense spending by 50% and then capping pharma prices pay for free medical care for all?
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:54 PM   #362
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Everytime someone says "Right Wing Talking Point",

Drink

I dont think we would make it through the debate.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:55 PM   #363
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For those in favor of medicare for all, how do you feel about someone like Donald Trump being in charge of your healthcare? Even if a Bernie Sanders wins in 2020 and signs medicare for all, there will be a republican president again.

It's not like the President will be validating claims. How do I feel about Trump being in charge of Social Security and Medicare? I'm fine, certainly I'd rather have them, even with Trump, than not.

And I'm more of an incremental, public option guy than a single payer guy.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:56 PM   #364
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Well quick googling says the US spent 3.65 on healthcare. Cutting defense spending in half will pay for about a tenth of that.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:57 PM   #365
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Has anyone say cap medicine prices? I heard not letting them raise prices above inflation but when isulin is already $350 a bottle, thats useless

I still think my, "Cheap insulin and no cell phone telemarketers" plan is enough to win.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:59 PM   #366
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As a type 1 diabetic who may end up paying a lot of money when I hit medicare just to survive, Im for single payer.

OR open up health insurance like car insurance. Let competition drive the prices. I imagine that would work a lot better than what we have no in this country. Maybe Im wrong on that, but competition seems like a great way to lower costs.
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:06 PM   #367
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"I was the Vice President, not the President." doesn't seem like a winning slogan.

Good for Booker for calling him out for selectively taking credit for Obama's successes, while trying to pass blame for.his failures, but then he goes back to the unity well & I don't think that's the place for that argument.

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Old 07-31-2019, 09:07 PM   #368
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Did Booker just say shit hole countries?
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:08 PM   #369
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Did Booker just say shit hole countries?
Yes.
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:09 PM   #370
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He should've added a "so called" before it, but I assume everyone will get the reference.
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:10 PM   #371
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Well quick googling says the US spent 3.65 on healthcare. Cutting defense spending in half will pay for about a tenth of that.

That was the cost to Americans total, not what the federal government spent, including insurance costs, FWIW.
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:12 PM   #372
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Thats a pretty big problem that this country spends that much on healthcare and our system sucks.
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:19 PM   #373
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Thats a pretty big problem that this country spends that much on healthcare and our system sucks.

No shit, pardon my French.

Evidence from all the other developed countries in the world suggest that simply choosing any other system at random would likely cut our costs in half:

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Old 07-31-2019, 09:26 PM   #374
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Kamala Harris likes getting emotional and going over her time limit.
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:39 PM   #375
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Kamala Harris likes getting emotional and going over her time limit.

I don't think she is coming off well
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:41 PM   #376
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I don't think she is coming off well

Interesting, I see it as passion and it is what that party needs.

I think Biden sounds terrible.
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:43 PM   #377
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Drink every time Harris goes over the time limit.
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:58 PM   #378
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They target people by making them think those degrees will accomplish that, but in reality they don't.

Half the teachers I know get their masters degrees this way and it certainly does what it asvertises
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Old 07-31-2019, 10:04 PM   #379
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Trump will abuse him in debates.

One of the few things we've probably agreed on politically. Biden is the ideal candidate for the Trump campaign.

Trump will struggle in debates against the other top Dems in this race.

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Old 07-31-2019, 10:12 PM   #380
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I don't think she is coming off well
+1 She started off well when she had a chance to go back & forth at Biden, but the other candidates (especially Gabbard) attacking her did seem to get to her.

Much better & feistier debate tonight. We'll see if Biden's poll numbers bounce back up before debate 3, I'm sure they'll fall after this again.

Gabbard had the good exchange with Harris, but I actually think Yang has made the best impression among the also rans. Won't matter for him in this race, but I assume UBI will be in half the Democratic platforms by 2028 at least. (2024 if the Dems don't win this one.)
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Old 07-31-2019, 10:25 PM   #381
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+1 She started off well when she had a chance to go back & forth at Biden, but the other candidates (especially Gabbard) attacking her did seem to get to her.

Much better & feistier debate tonight. We'll see if Biden's poll numbers bounce back up before debate 3, I'm sure they'll fall after this again.

Gabbard had the good exchange with Harris, but I actually think Yang has made the best impression among the also rans. Won't matter for him in this race, but I assume UBI will be in half the Democratic platforms by 2028 at least. (2024 if the Dems don't win this one.)

Harris did not come off that well compared to the first debate. Biden did fine considering he is leading in the polls and everyone was going for him. I also don't see him as being easy debate fodder for Trump. Certainly, he will be less vulnerable than a socialist who says everything is free and we are raising taxes.
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Old 07-31-2019, 10:58 PM   #382
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Sooo... over 2 nights Warren, Sanders, Buttigieg, and Booker did the best by a lot. Biden didn't do well, but did enough to really hurt him. Harris got shanked by Gabbard (deservedly).

I really like Yang, but he doesn't have a path. Him and Inslee would be great in a cabinet.
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Old 07-31-2019, 11:01 PM   #383
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Much better & feistier debate tonight. We'll see if Biden's poll numbers bounce back up before debate 3, I'm sure they'll fall after this again.

You realize Biden's numbers jumped back up to pre-debate 1 numbers before this one? Harris' bounce dropped by half-ish.
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Old 07-31-2019, 11:09 PM   #384
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Old 07-31-2019, 11:10 PM   #385
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You realize Biden's numbers jumped back up to pre-debate 1 numbers before this one? Harris' bounce dropped by half-ish.
Yes. I placed it poorly, but that's why I had the again. Biden was able to score some cheap points in the second half being feisty vs de Blasio & Gillibrand but then butchered his close. It's not even a top 10 Biden gaffe, but looking like you don't understand the difference between a website and a telephone number is a bad look in 2019.

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Old 08-01-2019, 07:22 AM   #386
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I think De Blasio made a better moderator than debater last night with all the questions he was asking Biden.
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Old 08-01-2019, 08:18 AM   #387
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To employers it is. Even low paying jobs require a 4-year degree.

I think I'm confused. This whole part of the conversation started with a discussion about jobs that specifically require no college at all. The last study I saw on the subject stated that only about a third of job openings are expected to require a 4-year degree, another third some college/2-year, another third no college at all. The kind of jobs I thought we were talking about were the HS-only type. A not-small amount of them pay above the median US income, and a lot more pay just below it. They aren't jobs that a lot of people think are glamorous (truck drivers, plumbers, technicians, etc.) but there's a lot of quality work out there from a pay standpoint that doesn't require a 4-year degree, some of it fields where the demand just can't be filled. Those are the types of jobs where I don't personally see a good reason for people to have a degree in 'Random Not Particularly Practical Major'.

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Old 08-01-2019, 08:48 AM   #388
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For those in favor of medicare for all, how do you feel about someone like Donald Trump being in charge of your healthcare? Even if a Bernie Sanders wins in 2020 and signs medicare for all, there will be a republican president again.

I don't want ANY government official in charge of my healthcare. I don't care if they are Republican, Democrat, Green, Libertarian, etc., etc.
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Old 08-01-2019, 10:09 AM   #389
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I don't want ANY government official in charge of my healthcare. I don't care if they are Republican, Democrat, Green, Libertarian, etc., etc.

Agreed. And this is where my "mostly conservative" ideology starts to lean towards Libertarian. I want (virtually) no restriction on health care. A large part of the cost is created by the barrier to competition in my point of view.

The example was used up thread about the cost of insulin. You can travel to other countries and buy insulin, manufactured by the same companies making the stuff you are getting now, without a prescription, for a fraction of the cost.

I wont derail the whole thread but I think our entire system of health insurance needs to be blown up. I think required health insurance actually hurts the poor in ways not immediately visible.
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Old 08-01-2019, 11:32 AM   #390
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Speaking of student loan debt, I came out of law school with over $800 a month in student loan payments (only 15 more years to go...). I recently was curious and went to look at what tuition is at Emory Law School (where I went) and it is DOUBLE what it was when I was there. How in the world are people supposed to pay that?
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Old 08-01-2019, 11:49 AM   #391
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I don't want ANY government official in charge of my healthcare. I don't care if they are Republican, Democrat, Green, Libertarian, etc., etc.

And yet government run healthcare, VA and Medicare, consistently poll higher than private insurance.
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Old 08-01-2019, 11:52 AM   #392
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Agreed. And this is where my "mostly conservative" ideology starts to lean towards Libertarian. I want (virtually) no restriction on health care. A large part of the cost is created by the barrier to competition in my point of view.

The example was used up thread about the cost of insulin. You can travel to other countries and buy insulin, manufactured by the same companies making the stuff you are getting now, without a prescription, for a fraction of the cost.

I wont derail the whole thread but I think our entire system of health insurance needs to be blown up. I think required health insurance actually hurts the poor in ways not immediately visible.

Worth noting that these other countries with cheaper insulin don't have this pure competition model.
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Old 08-01-2019, 11:57 AM   #393
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Speaking of student loan debt, I came out of law school with over $800 a month in student loan payments (only 15 more years to go...). I recently was curious and went to look at what tuition is at Emory Law School (where I went) and it is DOUBLE what it was when I was there. How in the world are people supposed to pay that?

Maybe they should pick a college other than Emory.
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Old 08-01-2019, 11:59 AM   #394
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The example was used up thread about the cost of insulin. You can travel to other countries and buy insulin, manufactured by the same companies making the stuff you are getting now, without a prescription, for a fraction of the cost.

Consider whether every single one of those other countries offering cheaper insulin without a prescription are doing so under government run universal healthcare systems, or some sort of no-insurance no-government free-market chaos.

EDIT: Larry beat me to it.
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Old 08-01-2019, 12:02 PM   #395
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European countries put a cap on medicine prices. IMO, the companies jack up the prices here, where there are no caps, to maximize the profits they lose out on in other countries.
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Old 08-01-2019, 12:04 PM   #396
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European countries put a cap on medicine prices. IMO, the companies jack up the prices here, where there are no caps, to maximize the profits they lose out on in other countries.

It makes you wonder what would happen to everyone else's healthcare system if the U.S. stopped subsidizing them. (Not that we should care about that).
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Old 08-01-2019, 12:10 PM   #397
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Speaking of student loan debt, I came out of law school with over $800 a month in student loan payments (only 15 more years to go...). I recently was curious and went to look at what tuition is at Emory Law School (where I went) and it is DOUBLE what it was when I was there. How in the world are people supposed to pay that?

I was around $100k combined law and undergrad, but working in public service helped a lot. I got around $15k forgiven from John R. Justice program, and another $15k or so from public service grants from my law school. And fortunately this was around 2006 when student loan interests were very low, I'm locked in around 3% with none of it private loans. I still have around $35k to go, with the next payment due in 2026 or something, so I just throw money at it whenever I can.

There's also the 10-year public interest forgiveness program, where you pay a % of your income and the rest is forgiven after 10 years. But you have to make sure you're doing it right, and that you've consolidated with a qualifying loan type, or else you find out 8 years in that you have to start over again. Edit: By the time that was available it didn't really make sense for me, with the interests rates as low as they were on my loans, and with my salary getting better over the years, I'd rather just throw varying amounts at it then have a fixed 10-year payment schedule.

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Old 08-01-2019, 12:15 PM   #398
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There's also the 10-year public interest forgiveness program, where you pay a % of your income and the rest is forgiven after 10 years. But you have to make sure you're doing it right, and that you've consolidated with a qualifying loan type, or else you find out 8 years in that you have to start over again.

A ton of people found out the hard way. People just weren't adequately told when they started out what exact income based loan they were supposed to sign up for.
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Old 08-01-2019, 12:45 PM   #399
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And yet government run healthcare, VA and Medicare, consistently poll higher than private insurance.

I am assuming I found the poll you are referencing here, Gallup 2015, and it notes that out of pocket cost plays a major role in satisfaction with coverage.

Heck, when I am not having to deal with the doctor, I am completely satisfied with my health care plan covered by my company. When I need to go to the doctor and pay my deductible, I am not. So my answer to the question would vary based upon that moment in time.
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Old 08-01-2019, 01:20 PM   #400
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Worth noting that these other countries with cheaper insulin don't have this pure competition model.

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Originally Posted by thesloppy View Post
Consider whether every single one of those other countries offering cheaper insulin without a prescription are doing so under government run universal healthcare systems, or some sort of no-insurance no-government free-market chaos.

EDIT: Larry beat me to it.

I can only be 100% honest here and say I am not familiar enough to know the specific's n other countries health care.
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