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Old 01-16-2020, 01:06 PM   #1
Lathum
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2020 MLB thread

With it being a new year and all the stuff coming out thought it best to start a new thread.

Looks like it is being reported on Twitter that Beltran is stepping down.

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Old 01-16-2020, 01:54 PM   #2
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With it being a new year and all the stuff coming out thought it best to start a new thread.

Looks like it is being reported on Twitter that Beltran is stepping down.

Mets gonna Met
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Old 01-16-2020, 02:38 PM   #3
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Old 01-16-2020, 03:55 PM   #4
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At this point, from a security standpoint, you have to go to a NFL type thing with headsets in the catcher and pitcher's hats or something similar right? (or allow catchers to use buzzers or something similar to call pitches.
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Old 01-16-2020, 03:55 PM   #5
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Old 01-16-2020, 04:12 PM   #6
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Wow. This is getting really ugly.

And with a strike looming. This is going to be an interesting 3 years for MLB.
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Old 01-16-2020, 04:15 PM   #7
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I know Manfred is trying to avoid picking a fight with the MLBPA over the players' cheating, but between Beltran's niece's allegations and the plethora of photographic and video evidence that seems to at least tangentially support those allegations, I wish he would burn that franchise to the ground.

Absent that, drop the hammer on Altuve, Bregman, and anybody else who appears "buzzed up" in those photos and videos.
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Old 01-16-2020, 04:41 PM   #8
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Manfred should also go. This happened on his watch and seemed to be an open secret.
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Old 01-16-2020, 04:45 PM   #9
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I know Manfred is trying to avoid picking a fight with the MLBPA over the players' cheating, but between Beltran's niece's allegations and the plethora of photographic and video evidence that seems to at least tangentially support those allegations, I wish he would burn that franchise to the ground.

Absent that, drop the hammer on Altuve, Bregman, and anybody else who appears "buzzed up" in those photos and videos.


What photos and videos have popped up since the buzzer allegations?
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Old 01-16-2020, 04:53 PM   #10
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Lot of stuff floating around that are weird. Not definitive though.





Altuve's splits in the 2017 playoffs are comical.
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Old 01-16-2020, 04:53 PM   #11
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What photos and videos have popped up since the buzzer allegations?

Since the original ones? Dunno. But been seeing on Facebook all day stuff like the video of Altuve's ALCS walk-off where he's yelling at his teammates not to rip his jersey off, and pictures of players appearing to have a patch underneath their uniform.

There's even one of...Reddick, maybe? Being interviewed, and he's got a patch with what appears to be a wire through it on his left shoulder (he's not wearing his jersey, so you can actually see it.

It's a bunch of smoke and "see-what-you-want-to" on some level, but with the overall sign-stealing scandal and the 'bandage buzzer' allegations that Beltran's niece is freshly leveling today, welll...that franchise gets negative benefit of the doubt from me, now.

Does it make me an asshole? I'll wear that. But I'm treating allegations against the Astros surrounding this scandal as true until proven otherwise, because from what we've seen so far, there's no line they were unwilling to cross.

Fuck 'em, and fuck Hinch in particular with his "oh lol no that whistling thing is bullshit" followed less than a year later by "oh gosh it was just so hard to stop I tried to smash the screen but they just wouldn't listen to me"

Fuck 'em.
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Old 01-16-2020, 04:54 PM   #12
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FOFC wouldn't let me upload the one, but Rainmaker posted the biggies.
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Old 01-16-2020, 04:55 PM   #13
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By the way, if you pay reaaaaal close attention on the Altuve video RainMaker linked? You'll see a patch on Altuve's right shoulder. As alleged.

Drop the hammer, Manfred. I want his reputation so destroyed any chance he ever had of making the Hall, let alone any future All-Star Games, is nil.
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Old 01-16-2020, 05:16 PM   #14
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At this point, from a security standpoint, you have to go to a NFL type thing with headsets in the catcher and pitcher's hats or something similar right? (or allow catchers to use buzzers or something similar to call pitches.

I'm not sure headsets really work with pitcher/catcher. Buzzers could work if implemented correctly.

One thing that I feel definitely needs to happen is a crack down on tech allowed in stadiums in the name of biomechanical analysis. It's a given that when you allow a team to put 75 cameras throughout a stadium to track player movement that it's going to be abused in any and every way it can be.
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Old 01-16-2020, 05:16 PM   #15
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By the way, if you pay reaaaaal close attention on the Altuve video RainMaker linked? You'll see a patch on Altuve's right shoulder. As alleged.

Drop the hammer, Manfred. I want his reputation so destroyed any chance he ever had of making the Hall, let alone any future All-Star Games, is nil.

Manfred needs the hammer dropped on himself as well.
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Old 01-16-2020, 05:21 PM   #16
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MLB has to do a 180 on this and just say stealing signs is ok. It's been a part of the game for 150 years, and teams will still be stealing signs 150 years from now. If some teams/pitchers don't like it, then get smarter about changing them up. The Nats didn't have a problem in last year's World Series because they accepted the fact that the Astros were all-in trying to cop the signs and made their signs way more complicated to prevent them from being stolen.

Cameras, telescopes, binoculars, surveillance, psychics, it's all fair game.
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Old 01-16-2020, 05:24 PM   #17
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Old 01-16-2020, 05:24 PM   #18
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Manfred should also go. This happened on his watch and seemed to be an open secret.

He should go on the grounds of being a f'n idiot with or without this scandal.
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Old 01-16-2020, 05:26 PM   #19
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MLB has to do a 180 on this and just say stealing signs is ok. It's been a part of the game for 150 years, and teams will still be stealing signs 150 years from now. If some teams/pitchers don't like it, then get smarter about changing them up. The Nats didn't have a problem in last year's World Series because they accepted the fact that the Astros were all-in trying to cop the signs and made their signs way more complicated to prevent them from being stolen.

Cameras, telescopes, binoculars, surveillance, psychics, it's all fair game.

I'd rather watch to see who the best players and teams are and not who can find the biggest nerds to set up cameras and activate buzzers.
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Old 01-16-2020, 05:49 PM   #20
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at this point gut the astros farm system completely. Talking everything.must.go.
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Old 01-16-2020, 05:51 PM   #21
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At this point, from a security standpoint, you have to go to a NFL type thing with headsets in the catcher and pitcher's hats or something similar right? (or allow catchers to use buzzers or something similar to call pitches.

funny how the headsets will always have issues in Foxborough though...
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Old 01-16-2020, 06:10 PM   #22
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If they can prove the buzzers were used lifetime ban for all involved. Way worse than what Pete rose did IMO.
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Old 01-16-2020, 06:14 PM   #23
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If they can prove the buzzers were used lifetime ban for all involved. Way worse than what Pete rose did IMO.

I know it's not baseball related, but Pete was fucking 15 year olds, so fuck that guy.
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Old 01-16-2020, 06:16 PM   #24
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I know it's not baseball related, but Pete was fucking 15 year olds, so fuck that guy.

first I have heard of that. I was talking about the gambling
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Old 01-16-2020, 06:29 PM   #25
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He should go on the grounds of being a f'n idiot with or without this scandal.

One of the rare few times Jon and I will ever see remotely eye-to-eye on anything. History made, today.

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at this point gut the astros farm system completely. Talking everything.must.go.

Salt the earth.
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Old 01-16-2020, 08:17 PM   #26
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EVERYBODY CHEATS!!!

Stop being so obtuse people. So, so, so many pitchers have admitted to scuffing balls, using vaseline, thumbtacks, etc. Gaylord Perry cheated for years and eventually got caught. He's a Hall of Famer today. Many batters have used cork bats. We really only know about the people or teams that get caught.

Yet we always act so indignant when people or teams do get caught. "Wow, I can't believe team X could do that. What a bunch of cheaters."

It's not just baseball. There's arguably some extent of cheating going on in every locker room of every sport. People have a historical affinity for Montana-era 49ers. They cheated. All the time. The O-Lineman were spraying silicone on their jerseys, Jerry Rice was using stickum on his gloves, etc.

Let's just stop pretending that the only one's doing this are the one's that get caught.
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Old 01-16-2020, 08:53 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog View Post
EVERYBODY CHEATS!!!

Stop being so obtuse people. So, so, so many pitchers have admitted to scuffing balls, using vaseline, thumbtacks, etc. Gaylord Perry cheated for years and eventually got caught. He's a Hall of Famer today. Many batters have used cork bats. We really only know about the people or teams that get caught.

Yet we always act so indignant when people or teams do get caught. "Wow, I can't believe team X could do that. What a bunch of cheaters."

It's not just baseball. There's arguably some extent of cheating going on in every locker room of every sport. People have a historical affinity for Montana-era 49ers. They cheated. All the time. The O-Lineman were spraying silicone on their jerseys, Jerry Rice was using stickum on his gloves, etc.

Let's just stop pretending that the only one's doing this are the one's that get caught.


There's a big difference in the size of the stick being used here though. We're not talking about PED's for one player, or a spitball that a pitcher throws. We're talking about something that has a much, much, much more substantial effect on the outcome of the game than these other things. It's quite literally, a game changer.
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Old 01-16-2020, 08:56 PM   #28
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I think one of the best examples of this is the 1988 Olympic men's 100 metre final.

One person "cheated" and got caught and that was Ben Johnson. He was stripped of his gold medal and the general public vilified him. He was the "cheater." How could he do that? What have we learned in the 30 years since then?

Eventual gold medalist Carl Lewis tested positive three times for a banned substance during the 1988 Olympic trials. Under the rules at the time, he should have been banned from competing at the 1988 Olympics.

Silver medalist Lindford Christie tested positive at the 1988 Olympics after the 200 metre heats. He claimed the banned stimulant was from a gingeng tea and he escaped sanction. He later tested positive (again) in 1999 was eventually suspended.

Bronze medallist Calvin Smith is one of two runners from the field of eight that was never implicated in any instance of doping.

4th place finisher Dennis Mitchell, 6th place finisher Desai Williams and 8th place finisher Ray Stewart were all also linked to drug scandals at some point in their careers.

I'd be surprised if anyone in that race was actually clean at the time it was ran.
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Old 01-16-2020, 09:09 PM   #29
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There's a big difference in the size of the stick being used here though. We're not talking about PED's for one player, or a spitball that a pitcher throws. We're talking about something that has a much, much, much more substantial effect on the outcome of the game than these other things. It's quite literally, a game changer.

How is Gaylord Perry doctoring balls not a game changer? I mean, I suppose he never won a pennant. But I'm sure it impacted games. Why cheat if it's not intended to help you win?

Don't get me wrong, I agree to a degree that cheating occurs on a spectrum (although I appreciate other people who view it as black and white). But are we saying that we are okay with small scale cheating and it's only when it's organized and on a larger scale that we become upset?

I'm not saying the managers (and players) shouldn't be suspended. You cheat and get caught, you pay the price. Many people speed but only those that get caught get a ticket. It's more the public outrage that I take issue with, as if somehow the sanctity of the game has been tarnished. There is no sanctity to tarnish, people!

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Old 01-16-2020, 09:24 PM   #30
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It's not a whatabouism. Yes cheating, is cheating. However, Perry is pitching 36 games, throwing 120+ pitches a game.



This system is every. single. game. every. single. pitch. How is THAT not the game changer we are talking about?
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Old 01-16-2020, 10:11 PM   #31
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It's not a whatabouism. Yes cheating, is cheating. However, Perry is pitching 36 games, throwing 120+ pitches a game.

This system is every. single. game. every. single. pitch. How is THAT not the game changer we are talking about?

That's what I'm saying though. We seem willing to turn a blind eye to cheating on a micro level but then act surprised when it occurs on a macro level. We also respond as if the teams on the macro level are the only one's cheating period, ignoring both the cheating on the micro level and the very real likelihood that other teams are also cheating on a larger scale.

Do people believe that Houston was the only MLB team that either did, or were trying to, steal signs electronically?

Every time that a successful team cheats, people seem to get really angry about it. My opinion on this is that I believe it ruins this (false) idealism of sports that they have in their head. If this had been the San Diego Padres, does anyone even really care?
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Old 01-16-2020, 10:50 PM   #32
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This is an argument for never prosecuting any crimes. Just because you can't catch everybody doesn't mean those caught should go free. They knew they were breaking the rules. They got caught. Tough titties.
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Old 01-17-2020, 11:13 AM   #33
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This video cracked me up:

Everything You Need To Know About The Current State Of Major League Baseball As Told By Mean Girls : baseball
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Old 01-17-2020, 12:08 PM   #34
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Nah, Carman is right guys. We should ignore all cheaters.

We should ignore them doubly when they're told to stop and they keep doing it. We can ignore that they were cheating and we can ignore that they were told to stop and kept doing it.

Fuck it.

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Old 01-17-2020, 12:31 PM   #35
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I think one of the best examples of this is the 1988 Olympic men's 100 metre final.

One person "cheated" and got caught and that was Ben Johnson. He was stripped of his gold medal and the general public vilified him. He was the "cheater." How could he do that? What have we learned in the 30 years since then?

Eventual gold medalist Carl Lewis tested positive three times for a banned substance during the 1988 Olympic trials. Under the rules at the time, he should have been banned from competing at the 1988 Olympics.

This is not quite true. The levels Lewis tested positive for (which would not even be a violation today) did not mean he should be banned, but that there should be further investigation. This happened and he was cleared. The IAAF reviewed this later and said the USOC followed proper protocols for Lewis and other athletes. Lewis' name got dragged through the mud because Wade Exum was pissed that he lost a lawsuit.
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Old 01-17-2020, 01:34 PM   #36
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I generally am against guys throwing baseballs 100 mph at batters on purpose, but I would be totally fine with a guy like Chapman (yes, I know he is no saint) putting one right in Altuves ribs.
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Old 01-17-2020, 01:48 PM   #37
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Old 01-18-2020, 09:22 AM   #38
Carman Bulldog
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I'm not saying the managers (and players) shouldn't be suspended. You cheat and get caught, you pay the price. Many people speed but only those that get caught get a ticket. It's more the public outrage that I take issue with, as if somehow the sanctity of the game has been tarnished. There is no sanctity to tarnish, people!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPhillips View Post
This is an argument for never prosecuting any crimes. Just because you can't catch everybody doesn't mean those caught should go free. They knew they were breaking the rules. They got caught.

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Originally Posted by spleen1015 View Post
Nah, Carman is right guys. We should ignore all cheaters.

We should ignore them doubly when they're told to stop and they keep doing it. We can ignore that they were cheating and we can ignore that they were told to stop and kept doing it.

Fuck it.

C'mon! I say outright that I think not only the managers but also players should have been suspended. That's not what my issue is with. It's almost like some of you didn't even read what I said before replying.
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Old 01-18-2020, 12:20 PM   #39
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That's what I'm saying though. We seem willing to turn a blind eye to cheating on a micro level but then act surprised when it occurs on a macro level. We also respond as if the teams on the macro level are the only one's cheating period, ignoring both the cheating on the micro level and the very real likelihood that other teams are also cheating on a larger scale.

Do people believe that Houston was the only MLB team that either did, or were trying to, steal signs electronically?

Every time that a successful team cheats, people seem to get really angry about it. My opinion on this is that I believe it ruins this (false) idealism of sports that they have in their head. If this had been the San Diego Padres, does anyone even really care?

They were responding to this, not the post you quoted.
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Old 01-18-2020, 05:36 PM   #40
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The Mets are considering Dusty Baker to replace Beltran.

Have we not been punished enough?
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Old 01-18-2020, 08:44 PM   #41
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The Mets are considering Dusty Baker to replace Beltran.

Have we not been punished enough?

Has there been a GM/Manager recently? Maybe that is the way to go for the Mets?

Only half kidding.
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:52 AM   #42
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The Mets are considering Dusty Baker to replace Beltran.

Have we not been punished enough?

I hear Alex Cora and AJ Hinch are available. Thats a couple WS managers.

HAHA
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Old 01-19-2020, 11:14 AM   #43
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Hang on now. The smartest front office in the history of the game have reportedly scheduled a interview with Dusty as well.
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Old 01-25-2020, 07:52 PM   #44
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Hang on now. The smartest front office in the history of the game have reportedly scheduled a interview with Dusty as well.

With Bobby Evans interviewing for the GM spot they may be looking to dial back the reliance on analytics. Evans is also a big Dusty Baker guy.
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Old 01-27-2020, 07:32 PM   #45
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The Reds lock up Nick Castellanos for 4 years in his prime. It opens up some flexibility for some of the young guys to find other spots. The team is certainly pulling in some talent for the next few years and it's really good to see.
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Old 01-27-2020, 08:42 PM   #46
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I could take a few years of the Reds being good.
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Old 01-27-2020, 09:16 PM   #47
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AMEN
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Old 01-27-2020, 09:44 PM   #48
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I'm not sure what they're going to do with fourteen outfielders, but Williams has done a hell of a job transforming the roster in two years. They still don't have a SS, but they're a contender and they have the pitching to succeed in the playoffs.
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Old 01-27-2020, 10:45 PM   #49
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I fear the Reds have passed the Cards. Damn fiscal conservatism.

Rolling the dice on the young OFers I guess. And Carpenter coming back.

Im not happy with this offseason.
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Old 01-27-2020, 10:55 PM   #50
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Prairie du Sac, WI
It's definitely a good time for the Reds to make a move. Cubs and Cards have been pretty quiet. The Brewers have turned over a good chunk of the roster but it's a tough sell saying that they've gotten better.
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