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Old 11-20-2020, 06:52 PM   #401
stevew
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Obama got 2 judges to the district court of appeals (for this activity, the only court that matters)thru from 2014 to 2016 and they waited more than a year for a floor vote. They aren’t winning either race in Georgia. I don’t see how reading the room makes me a quack but whatever
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Old 11-20-2020, 07:03 PM   #402
GrantDawg
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It is really not far fetched, but of course Brian was the guy that kept telling us how there was no way the polls were going to be as bad as 2016.

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Old 11-20-2020, 07:13 PM   #403
stevew
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Libertarians are just smarter than us. I mean it’s obvious
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Old 11-20-2020, 07:15 PM   #404
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Actually, no I wasn't. What i said was the polls weren't off much in 2016 (they weren't), and that there wasn't any evidence they would be off in 2020 (there wasn't). That situation has changed now; they were off more than they have been in any modern election by a couple of orders of magnitude. I still say there was no evidence of that coming prior to the election however. I repeatedly said it was possible Trump would win but that it was a remote possibility. I don't think I was wrong except as it relates to how well polls would predict 2020, and suffice to say I have lots of company on that score.

If we're moving from no judges at all to the court of appeals that changes it somewhat, but it's still absurd to assume nobody gets past the Senate plus Trump even runs again, much less gets nominated, much less gets elected against an incumbent in '24 when he couldn't even win as an incumbent this time.

I mean, if that's 'reading the room' that's fine, we just need to stop ripping on QAnon because what they are saying isn't much less reasonable.

Last edited by Brian Swartz : 11-20-2020 at 07:16 PM.
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Old 11-20-2020, 07:17 PM   #405
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GOP won't work with Democratic President = Hilary Clinton ears babies. Yes, exactly the same thing. Sure, Jan.

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Old 11-20-2020, 07:18 PM   #406
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That's not what I've said at all. It's not even close.
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Old 11-20-2020, 07:20 PM   #407
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That's not what I've said at all. It's not even close.

Agreed
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Old 11-20-2020, 07:28 PM   #408
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I am not going to keep arguing this, but if you don't think the GOP is going to become super obstructionist because of fear of Trump, you are fooling yourself. If you don't think Trump is going to start running for 2024 the second he leaves the White House, you aren't paying attention. None of this is guaranteed, but it definitely isn't impossible. Q-anon is impossible. Comparing the two is ridiculous.

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Old 11-20-2020, 07:43 PM   #409
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Only one president (Alexander) ever lost re-election and then won again.

Grover Cleveland. There has never been a President Alexander.
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Old 11-20-2020, 07:46 PM   #410
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But no president has ever won 373 games.
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Old 11-20-2020, 07:55 PM   #411
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But no president has ever won 373 games.

Or struck out Tony Lazzeri with the bases loaded nursing a hangover
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Old 11-20-2020, 08:25 PM   #412
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https://www.bovada.lv/sports/politic...-election-2024

Donald Trump is +400 and the favorite for GOP nominee in 2024 at Bovada right now

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Old 11-20-2020, 08:31 PM   #413
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LOL, Kanye less of an underdog than Kayliar McEnany
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Old 11-20-2020, 08:31 PM   #414
Brian Swartz
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Originally Posted by Issidiqui
Grover Cleveland. There has never been a President Alexander.

Yep. You are right on this point, I got the names mixed up.
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Old 11-20-2020, 08:51 PM   #415
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What about President Madison? He was president, right? He is on money.

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Old 11-20-2020, 09:12 PM   #416
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A hearty go fuck yourself for comparing me to Q. Like I’ll put it in bold. Go fuck yourself
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Old 11-20-2020, 09:16 PM   #417
Brian Swartz
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See here's the thing: I didn't do that at all. I compared your statements to theirs. What you are alleging is a personal attack; what I did is criticize your argument. There's a massive difference. As I've said before, if it's not ok to do that then why are we even here? Isn't debating the point? Also:

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevew
Go fuck yourself

I am disinclined to acquiesce to your request.

That means no.
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Old 11-21-2020, 12:22 AM   #418
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I am not going to keep arguing this, but if you don't think the GOP is going to become super obstructionist because of fear of Trump, you are fooling yourself. If you don't think Trump is going to start running for 2024 the second he leaves the White House, you aren't paying attention. None of this is guaranteed, but it definitely isn't impossible. Q-anon is impossible. Comparing the two is ridiculous.

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I think they will to an extent. Everyone is writing off these Senate races but I think they'll be close. Runoffs are weird and while I wouldn't put money on the Dems winning, I don't think it's a lost cause.

There are also a couple Senators in the GOP that will work with Dems on some issues. Collins has been bad on stuff but she also voted with the Dems an awful lot. Romney voted guilty in the Senate impeachment trial.

Also Measure 2 passing in Alaska is a big deal. It means Murkowski doesn't have to worry about a primary challenger from the right. And with the ranked choice election, she can be more moderate and not worry about losing her seat in 2022.
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Old 11-21-2020, 07:54 AM   #419
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I mean, if that's 'reading the room' that's fine, we just need to stop ripping on QAnon because what they are saying isn't much less reasonable.

Never stop ripping on Q. I don't hate republicans, I don't hate Christians and I don't hate those that disagree with me. I hate Qanon followers (not necessarily those dabbling in it although they're playing with fire), the ones deeply in it. Perhaps too deep to save without rehab... cult rehab.

They're literally the most despicable group of people and like a virus they insatiably keep going for the above people's weakness, whatever it is, and tie them all together before dragging them behind the Qanon covered wagon like corpses.

They showed their true colors most succinctly by trying to steal the #savethechildren hashtag and turning it into a political choice to be for or against human sex trafficking. If that isn't the ultimate disdain for people I don't know what is. Everyone is against it. Left Right Center but these evil fucks tried to make it so that if you didn't agree with Trump you're ok with sex trafficking.

These idiots, the Q flock, need to be shut down immediately. I'm not for violence against simply thought (as they are) but I think that the FBI and CIA has a lot of work ahead of them infiltrating these fools so that they can continuously watch where the burn leads and intervene.
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Old 11-21-2020, 09:13 AM   #420
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Yes, a thousand times yes. Brian has missed the mark here. Q is a very dangerous movement. Within it, lies the potential for an American ISIS. The brainwashing and recruiting techniques are there. The complete and total die hard allegiance to their belief system and the desire to tear anything down that is not supporting them are mimics. Q is insidious, it may be faltering now, but history has shown how these things grow and how they can rationalize their way into holding on. Scientology and 7th Day Adventists own pathway bears that success out.
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Old 11-21-2020, 09:29 AM   #421
Brian Swartz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotMan
The complete and total die hard allegiance to their belief system and the desire to tear anything down that is not supporting them are mimics.

There's a ton of this in American politics. It's not even remotely isolated to Q. But more to the point, once again that isn't at all what I said or what I was talking about. I was comparing the validity of arguments to demonstrate how ridiculous I found a particular contention. I made no personal comparisons, or comparisons of the composition of political movements, or any such thing. I addressed my comments to the logical content of the statements put forth. That's it, and that's all.

It truly is astounding to me that we apparently can't separate the two. I fear this board is slipping even further away from a connection to critical thinking than I had realized.

Last edited by Brian Swartz : 11-21-2020 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 11-21-2020, 09:43 AM   #422
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I think your mistake is equating anything Q to anything similar and ongoing in the political mainstream in the last 50 years.
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Old 11-21-2020, 09:50 AM   #423
Brian Swartz
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This will be my last post on this subject, but I think this is worth pointing out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISsidiqui
No offense, but this is like QAnon level thinking to me.

This was posted less than two weeks ago. It's not the only time I've seen others draw a similar comparison. Nobody batted an eyelash. Nobody got offended. I say there was nothing wrong with it being said, either here or the other times it has been.

But apparently if I say it, I'm the one who is out to lunch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Maher
We are losing the thread back to thinking itself

I leave this matter for the board to choose what they think is reasonable and what isn't.
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Old 11-21-2020, 10:36 AM   #424
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https://www.bovada.lv/sports/politic...-election-2024

Donald Trump is +400 and the favorite for GOP nominee in 2024 at Bovada right now

SI

When I look at that, I wonder who is tying up money for 4 years betting on this
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Old 11-21-2020, 10:46 AM   #425
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End of an era. Been on this site for over 2 decades, and the first time I have ever felt the need to block someone.
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Old 11-21-2020, 11:06 AM   #426
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I'm just trying to understand what the solution is. Biden's narrative cannot be we'll work together and expect success.

Trumpists want blood, they will never even listen to a Democrat dialogue. They want suppression and destruction to any that even challenge the fabric of white European centrism, Christianity (predominantly evangelical), Heterosexuality, the Earth is to be developed not conserved (or Climate Change is a myth), Education is for elites but intelligence is to be mocked...up is down, etc...

We have an administration that is actively undermining our government, our health, our institutions, and the Trumpists are happy to watch it burn.

It just seems to be that white poor are happy to watch everything burn because they are fucked in life, see others (read minorities) benefit and have decided that if they can't have it, no one can.

It isn't even about working hard anymore, it's about dying on a hill nowhere near the battle out of spite.
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Old 11-21-2020, 11:07 AM   #427
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I'm just trying to understand what the solution is. Biden's narrative cannot be we'll work together and expect success.

Trumpists want blood, they will never even listen to a Democrat dialogue. They want suppression and destruction to any that even challenge the fabric of white European centrism, Christianity (predominantly evangelical), Heterosexuality, the Earth is to be developed not conserved (or Climate Change is a myth), Education is for elites but intelligence is to be mocked...up is down, etc...

We have an administration that is actively undermining our government, our health, our institutions, and the Trumpists are happy to watch it burn.

It just seems to be that white poor are happy to watch everything burn because they are fucked in life, see others (read minorities) benefit and have decided that if they can't have it, no one can.

It isn't even about working hard anymore, it's about dying on a hill nowhere near the battle out of spite.
Very good summary.
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Old 11-21-2020, 11:21 AM   #428
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There are some things that can't be negotiated with, they simply must be defeated. But when you don't have the power to defeat them, you take whatever small steps forward you can and use that to advocate to being given the trust of, for example, a Senate majority. I think a balance is needed given the political realities Biden faces. He can't ignore a Senate that is at least half Republican, all he can do is try to get whatever positives he can through.
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Old 11-21-2020, 12:17 PM   #429
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Brian has missed the mark here. Q is a very dangerous movement.

Well gee, that's something new.
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Old 11-21-2020, 01:03 PM   #430
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Well gee, that's something new.

I don’t understand how people are not seeing what he said:

Quote:
... it's still absurd to assume nobody gets past the Senate plus Trump even runs again, much less gets nominated, much less gets elected against an incumbent in '24 when he couldn't even win as an incumbent this time.

I mean, if that's 'reading the room' that's fine, we just need to stop ripping on QAnon because what they are saying isn't much less reasonable.

He’s not saying we should stop ripping on QAnon, he’s just saying that he thinks the idea that the sequence of events he’s listed could happen is as outlandish as QAnon’s theories.

People are seeing something that just isn’t there
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Old 11-21-2020, 01:16 PM   #431
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I don't think it matters much either way, but there's a big difference between hyperbole and conspiracy theory. Would anyone have objected if the original statement was that the GOP would block as many appointments as possible in order to fill them with GOP nominees?

That's rather different than Dems are a Satanic cult of child rapists.
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Old 11-21-2020, 01:23 PM   #432
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The plan set out (block all Biden's appointments, Trump run and win in 2024) appears to be exactly what the Trump team's current plan is. So calling it just slightly less reasonable than QAnon is really wrong. I don't think Brian's statement is objectionable. I think it's just dumb.

Do I think it's going to happen? No. Do I think that's the plan for some Trumper Republicans? Yeah.
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Old 11-21-2020, 01:29 PM   #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexB View Post
I donít understand how people are not seeing what he said:



Heís not saying we should stop ripping on QAnon, heís just saying that he thinks the idea that the sequence of events heís listed could happen is as outlandish as QAnonís theories.

People are seeing something that just isnít there

I'm not disagreeing, my point was I'll never stop ripping on Q regardless. It wasn't attributed to BS being a Q disciple just that they get no breathing room... ever.
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Old 11-22-2020, 12:53 AM   #434
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Originally Posted by Flasch186 View Post
I'm not disagreeing, my point was I'll never stop ripping on Q regardless. It wasn't attributed to BS being a Q disciple just that they get no breathing room... ever.


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Old 11-22-2020, 08:58 AM   #435
Brian Swartz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPhillips
Would anyone have objected if the original statement was that the GOP would block as many appointments as possible in order to fill them with GOP nominees?

I probably wouldn't have posted at all if that was what was said, but what was actually posted was way, way, different. It's like comparing someone who says they are going to swim the English Channel to someone who says they are going to walk across it. One is difficult, the other just isn't going to happen.

@AlexB: Thank you, but I think the reaction is simply because I am among a group of people whose opinions aren't welcome by some, regardless of their content. I credit you for and those others who have done so for seeing past that.

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Old 11-22-2020, 12:19 PM   #436
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A hearty go fuck yourself for comparing me to Q. Like Iíll put it in bold. Go fuck yourself

meh, I get this a lot
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Old 11-22-2020, 07:57 PM   #437
GrantDawg
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Tony Blinken to named Secretary of State, and Jake Sullivan to NSA. Who? Not household names.

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Old 11-22-2020, 08:27 PM   #438
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Originally Posted by AlexB View Post
I donít understand how people are not seeing what he said:

Sure you do. You're just being nice.

Quote:
Heís not saying we should stop ripping on QAnon, heís just saying that he thinks the idea that the sequence of events heís listed could happen is as outlandish as QAnonís theories.

People are seeing something that just isnít there

I do differ with Brian on Trump in 2024. I know he will be facing legal challenges in the next 4 years but he has a lot of resources and he has shown how he can successful delay, defer, use other people etc.

But his larger-than-conventional-wisdom-of-38-42% is impressive; good bet that he will run in 2024 and enough of a chance to win to stir up this forum again.
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Old 11-22-2020, 08:30 PM   #439
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Originally Posted by Brian Swartz View Post
This was posted less than two weeks ago. It's not the only time I've seen others draw a similar comparison. Nobody batted an eyelash. Nobody got offended. I say there was nothing wrong with it being said, either here or the other times it has been.

But apparently if I say it, I'm the one who is out to lunch?

Not that I care to research the context to the statement you quoted but just chalk it up to oblivious hypocrisy or not being part of the cool bro group.

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Old 11-22-2020, 08:35 PM   #440
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or not being part of the cool bro group.

Dear diary.....
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Old 11-22-2020, 09:14 PM   #441
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Biden to Name Longtime Aide Blinken as Secretary of State

Am I the only one who thought of Robin Hood: Men In Tights after hearing the name?
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Old 11-23-2020, 12:58 AM   #442
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Qanon believes that there is a large cabal of Satan worshipping pedophiles that include most Democratic politicians, Jews, and major celebrities. They believe these people harvest blood from tortured infants to give them life force.

Many of the politicians and celebrities you see are body doubles. The real ones are either being held at Guantanamo or were executed. Like the Tom Hanks you saw on SNL a few months back? Just a body double.

And all this information isn't being screamed to the rooftops. Instead it is broadcast in cryptic messages on a anime message board that was famous for their Neo-Nazi forum and posting of child pornography.

There are a lot weird theories out there but nothing is in the ballpark of the Q stuff.
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Old 11-23-2020, 01:08 AM   #443
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Tony Blinken to named Secretary of State, and Jake Sullivan to NSA. Who? Not household names.

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Old 11-23-2020, 07:33 AM   #444
GrantDawg
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Yuppers...
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Old 11-23-2020, 09:54 AM   #445
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Biden to Name Longtime Aide Blinken as Secretary of State

Am I the only one who thought of Robin Hood: Men In Tights after hearing the name?

I totally did and almost made that joke yesterday but didn't think anyone else would get it

Thanks for picking me up!

SI
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Old 11-23-2020, 12:41 PM   #446
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More information on Biden's cabinet today.

From WaPo:

Quote:
President-elect Joe Biden confirmed Monday that he plans to name Antony Blinken as secretary of state, Jake Sullivan as national security adviser and Linda Thomas-Greenfield as U.S. ambassador to the United Nations. He also announced that he plans to add Alejandro Mayorkas to lead homeland security, Avril Haines as director of national intelligence and John Kerry as special presidential. envoy for climate.

A Latino in charge of DHS. The biggest name as Climate Czar.

Btw, Blinken is a well known advocate for raising the refugee cap. Even appeared on Sesame Street in 2016 to make the case to let in more refugees.

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Old 11-23-2020, 12:47 PM   #447
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It seems Biden's biggest message in these choices is a return to normal. These are all career service people (besides Kerry) that are very non-political.

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Old 11-23-2020, 04:06 PM   #448
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Looks like Janet Yellen is going to get the Treasury head - first female ever in that role.

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Old 11-23-2020, 05:34 PM   #449
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I do like the Yellen pick. She knows how to play the Fed and markets game. I don't know if she knows the political game but IMO not as important.

Markets didn't crash (yet) after the announcement so a good sign.
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Old 11-23-2020, 05:54 PM   #450
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For the rightists claiming that this is going to Venezuela it certainly looking more and more like just BS playing to their craziest bits of their own tribe to 'sell' them on 2024. Pragmatists are winning thank god this time.
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