I'm kinda bored. Thoughts on some big changes for next season and beyond?

Ben E Lou · 03-13-2009, 11:59 AM

I wanted this to be something different. It still doesn't feel terribly different, though.

I like the QB/WR rules. I like the FA rules. But it still feels like just a slightly faster version of every other league with slightly less talent at QB/WR.

In the spirit of the FOOL, what about making this a league that focuses on the offseason, and zooming through the regular season? Something like this:

Staff: Just skip it and let the chips fall where they may.

DAY 1: Summer/Ticket/FA1:1
DAY 2: FA1:2
DAY 3: FA1:3
DAY 4: FA1:4 (Draft Begins)
DAY 5: FA1:5
DAY 6: FA1:6-7
DAY 7: FA1:8-9
DAY 8: FA1:10-12 (Draft Ends)
DAY 9: FA2:1-2
DAY 10: FA2:3-5
DAY 11: TC
DAY 12: Midweek
DAY 13: Preseason, Regular Season Weeks 1-17
DAY 14: Postseason

Injuries would have to be off.

So the idea would be:
1. Build team.
2. Set game plan
3. See how game plan works for a year
4. Adjust philosophy as needed.

SIDE BENEFIT 1: I think we could get a better feel for how the three-year rule with no franchise tags really impacts a league in the MP environment this way.

SIDE BENEFIT 2: People testing out game plans wouldn't be tempted to change them so often and therefore have no earthly idea if they're actually any good.

SIDE BENEFIT 3: It would help get rid of the highly talented QBs and WRs in the league currently.

eckman · 03-13-2009, 12:08 PM

I was defiantly dropping out after this season. I have just lost interest in this league. I would consider sticking around with a radical twist like this. I am more into building a team and the draft rather than game planning.

Tasan · 03-13-2009, 12:14 PM

This is exactly what I would want. FOOL for FOF, and that sounds great. The only issues is that we have enough problems keeping 12 people around in FOOL because of the pace. Without a custom league size, we may have to accept a very under-filled league with this pace.

Ben E Lou · 03-13-2009, 12:18 PM

I think the key would be that we make the offseason actually go a little more slowly than it has been (which the schedule above does). The draft would be a full day longer, which would allow longer draft time windows. We're just putting the emphasis on building a team more than running it.

Yoda · 03-13-2009, 12:26 PM

I'd be interested in it.

Though, personally, I'd prefer to hire my coaches.

*editing stupid part*

gstelmack · 03-13-2009, 12:35 PM

Why 2 days to sim the season if injuries are off?

I won't be sticking around because 1 league with FA rules is enough for me to keep track of. But the concept is interesting.

MalcPow · 03-13-2009, 12:35 PM

I would prefer this greatly.

Ben E Lou · 03-13-2009, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Why 2 days to sim the season if injuries are off?.

As a concession to people who want to tweak the gameplan.

I'd be totally down with just one day, though.

Shard77 · 03-13-2009, 12:41 PM

I prefer Option 1 to Option 2. I don't really enjoy the prospect of losing half my starting lineups to injury each year....while it may be more realistic it just sucks the fun out of the league for me.

Two suggestions:

I'd still like to keep one stage for coach hiring since it does affect performance and player development. I've never gotten a good hire from auto-hires.

Would it be possible to split the season into quarters instead of halves? That way, if we've got some young players that aren't performing up to par or developing the way we envisioned we have an opportunity to make a few adjustments during the season. (Maybe this doesn't fit mold of what you're envisioning for the league).

gstelmack · 03-13-2009, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

As a concession to people who want to tweak the gameplan.

I'd be totally down with just one day, though.

I'm thinking more about this, and since the only reason I've been considering sticking with WOOF is that I want to keep playing with DraftAnalyzer and messing with drafting, the real answer for me might be to drop WOOF and take this up since there's a draft like every other week.

But on this particular question, like many other realizations I've come to in FOF, this should just be all or nothing. Just sim the season, don't worry about mid-season tweaks. Either make everyone set their gameplans at the start of the season, or turn on Rex for everyone (if the goal is to do roster building), but any compromise of that sucks away a lot of the league goal and starts watering down the GM feel.

eiskrap · 03-13-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I think the key would be that we make the offseason actually go a little more slowly than it has been (which the schedule above does). The draft would be a full day longer, which would allow longer draft time windows. We're just putting the emphasis on building a team more than running it.

My main complaint with the league was that the draft was taking too long as it was. There is nothing as annoying as being two picks away, but having to wait 8 hours for people who haven't put a list together. I know we were going to auto pick for people who didn't sign in, but I still think there will be quite a few people who sign in intending to make a list but then life gets in the way. I'd like to see two hour max limits for first and second round picks and then speed it up quite a bit.

I'm with Shard and would rather run the league in quarters, to give the chance to play some young guys if you are not in contention, but I feel we may be the minority on this.

Ben E Lou · 03-13-2009, 12:53 PM

You're dead on, Greg. I think if we do it, we do it all the way.

Young Drachma · 03-13-2009, 01:00 PM

Yeah, if you're gonna go fast-sim, go fast all of the way. I've done two different fast-sim leagues now...and it's almost always better to keep the pace brisk, because if you drag out the off-season too long, it makes it boring.

The idea is to sim lots of seasons to 1) build a history and 2) get immersed quicker, because that means people 3) stay interested and participate more actively.

But when the off-season gets dragged out, people start to hyperfocus on the small details of the off-season and things get lame quickly.

Ben E Lou · 03-13-2009, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Yeah, if you're gonna go fast-sim, go fast all of the way. I've done two different fast-sim leagues now...and it's almost always better to keep the pace brisk, because if you drag out the off-season too long, it makes it boring.

The idea is to sim lots of seasons to 1) build a history and 2) get immersed quicker, because that means people 3) stay interested and participate more actively.

But when the off-season gets dragged out, people start to hyperfocus on the small details of the off-season and things get lame quickly.

Makes complete sense. Thanks for the input. You're the guru in this sort of stuff.

Subby · 03-13-2009, 01:54 PM

I am cool with whatever. I like having sim results every morning but this would be different enough to keep it interesting.

QuikSand · 03-13-2009, 02:33 PM

mo fasta, mo betta

chinaski · 03-13-2009, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subby

I am cool with whatever. I like having sim results every morning but this would be different enough to keep it interesting.

+1 on Subby's comments. Lately, my favorite thing to do each morning is check the FOWL results.

Although, I think it would make it a harder on teams like mine (super sucky), as I tweak my defense each game based on who im playing. Whatever we decide to do, im down with it. This is a great group of coaches.

Tasan · 03-13-2009, 02:59 PM

The season in one day? I'm all for that. The closer we get to a FOOL model, the happier I am. This stuff is like crack.

TheMeat · 03-13-2009, 03:32 PM

I'm all in for this, I really really enjoy the drafting and player management part of this game and I like the idea of taking this league in a very different direction for people who don't just want another league like the others. The only other MP FOF I play is with my good friend in RL, we have injuries right off and usually go step by step through the offseason at our own pace then get together over MSN and zip through the season in an hour or so. We like it because you can see your players go through careers in some decent amount of time instead of it taking a real life year to see it through.

Subby · 03-13-2009, 03:50 PM

Something that quik suggested elsewhere that I would like to at least mention here...

Sim the regular season and then program the posting robot so that it posts each week's results every hour. Sure you could get the file on the front end, but it would be fun for folks who follow along at work and don't have game access.

MalcPow · 03-13-2009, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subby

Something that quik suggested elsewhere that I would like to at least mention here...

Sim the regular season and then program the posting robot so that it posts each week's results every hour. Sure you could get the file on the front end, but it would be fun for folks who follow along at work and don't have game access.

Big thumbs up for this

QuikSand · 03-13-2009, 04:13 PM

posting robots rock

Johnny93g · 03-13-2009, 04:42 PM

I've been enjoying the 1 game a day pace we have been going at, but i totally understand the want for something different. I don't think i would like the "sim a whole season in one day" thing, but if that's what everyone wants, i'm ok with that.

iBomb1st · 03-13-2009, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny93g

I've been enjoying the 1 game a day pace we have been going at, but i totally understand the want for something different. I don't think i would like the "sim a whole season in one day" thing, but if that's what everyone wants, i'm ok with that.

I agree with this. This has quickly become my favorite league because of the brisk pace, production values, and group of owners. I really enjoy waking up every morning to my game log. I think this proposal would be fun, but a totally different experience. I have been in a couple other leagues and they didn't have whatever tools are used to create all the reports and html used in FOWL. It makes the individual games and seasons much more interesting to me. I think some of that would be lost in this proposal... but from hearing you guys it seems as if most are in other leagues and the spirit of this league was to be different. Bottom line is, I would most definitely participate, but would also like the direction of a league ran similarly with a focus on individual games. Also, Quik/Subby's idea sounds awesome.

Suicane75 · 03-14-2009, 03:35 AM

Would the "1 traded player per season" rule be out the window under the new incarnation?

I'm in either way.

Sef0r · 03-14-2009, 06:33 AM

I am sorry to be a poopa to the rest of the ideas in here but I, like a few others like waking up to my game logs in the morning.

If the game played the players according to their ratings I would be fine with a 1 day sim of all games. But it doesn't, there are players that look like they should be FA's who are leading their teams to Wins and those who should be elite play like crap.

However, maybe a happy medium? Here is my 2c (making it 3 weeks esentially)

Keep staff hiring, but make it a Sunday task so those that want to do it can do it before FA1 and those that don't want to can just skip it.

(Sun) DAY 0: Begin Staff Hiring

(Mon) DAY 1: Summer/Ticket/FA1:1
(Tue) DAY 2: FA1:2
(Wed) DAY 3: FA1:3
(Thu) DAY 4: FA1:4 (Begin Draft)
(Fri) DAY 5: FA1:5

(Sat-Sun) draft continues

(Mon) DAY 6: FA1:6-12 (Draft Ends)
(Tue) DAY 7: FA2:1-2
(Wed) DAY 8: FA2:3-5
(Thu) DAY 9: TC
(Fri) DAY 10: Midweek

(Mon) DAY 11: Pre Season weeks
(Tue) DAY 12: Regular Season weeks 1-5
(Wed) DAY 13: Regular Season weeks 6-12
(Thu) DAY 14: Regular Season weeks 13-17
(Fri) DAY 15: Playoffs (ALL)

I prefer to be able to make adjustments during the season. If I have a player who isn't performing after the first 5 weeks I want to be able to make changes. Then another adjustment after week 12 for the last 4 weeks. Usually if you are in the hunt for the playoffs, the last 4 weeks matters the most (aside from the weeks 1-12 of course) so you want to be able to make adjustments based on this. If of course you don't want to make adjustments, just leave things as they are and basically take a break for the 5 days these sims are run.

Shard77 · 03-14-2009, 01:21 PM

I played in the FastFL and the one thing I didn't like about playing with injuries off is that it basically became a competition to see who could field the best 22 players. Unless you've got players with serious End issues, depth really doesn't matter.

Unfortunately, any time you're simming more than one week at a time, you really have no choice but to shut injuries off.

MalcPow · 03-14-2009, 02:03 PM

If we'd like to capture some of the challenge of maintaining depth, we could use a sim schedule like the one Sef0r suggests with injuries on for the last game of each of the sim blocks. This would reduce injuries, but it would also increase the impact of some injuries. Any "Out" injury, even one that is not particularly serious would keep a player out of the next sim block of games.

Johnny93g · 03-14-2009, 05:59 PM

I really don't like the idea of playing with injuries off. All of a sudden, your not building a 53 man team, your building 22-26 player team.

Young Drachma · 03-14-2009, 07:08 PM

Some more fast-sim thoughts that came to me, that might help:

It's got to be breezy and if you start making it so it benefits people who invest more time in it, then you've killed the model, because it's intentionally designed to test your skills at the once-over. If people are spending more time on their fast-sim team to prepare it for the season than it takes to run the season, they're taking too long, because the model is specifically designed to get people to speed up...to make choices quicker...

Think speed chess, only we're not able to legislate prep time in an online league. But if you could, coupled with the whole "run the season quickly thing" then it works because you're testing folks on all levels of the game, with the idea being "that didn't work, I'll try something different next year."

It's just glorified solo league, against other people. But I can see where folks who play solo slowly or tinker a lot, could hate that kind of model.

The great equalizer of fast-sim is that it takes the guys who are dabbling and the ones who are pros and throws them in a pot and handicaps the guy who knows a lot, by making him plan ahead and adjust in the fly, meaning that things won't always work out they way they're "supposed" to and thus, they won't win as much.

The idea is to field the best damn team you can, put them out there and see what happens. I think FOF makes it a bit more of a challenge to do that, because of the way talent can't be rigged to be distributed better than in say OOTP, but...maybe for that reason it's even better in football because you'll have a bunch of flawed teams all missing something and so, the parity drags everyone to the middle, keeping it interesting.

Anyway..this spawned out of a different convo and I thought it should go someplace.

gstelmack · 03-14-2009, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny93g

I really don't like the idea of playing with injuries off. All of a sudden, your not building a 53 man team, your building 22-26 player team.

Unfortunately, I actually believe this to be the case in most leagues as-is. Most of the depth comes from up-and-coming rookies to replace aging guys anyway. The 30-40 rated guys are cheap and provide reasonable backup, and it's all about sinking all your money into a QB and a couple of WRs, maybe a DE and a CB or two. The only thing turning injuries off does is prevent a couple of teams per year from getting taken out early due to a random injury (see Hampton Roads in WOOF this season).

Sef0r · 03-14-2009, 09:24 PM

I like MalcPow's suggestion on injuries.
However, I like it the way it is, 1 game a day. The suggestion is only if most votes went for a faster sim.
We could split the regular season into quarters and enable injuries on the last sim day.
In order to keeping with the idea of making it a total of 15 weekdays we could DROP the Midweek after training camp.
I am sure owners can manage to drop to the required 53 for the pre season sim. If you are like me, you will get the weekend to analyse game logs to see how well your reserves played and to possibly find the starter at some positions.

(Sun) DAY 0: Begin Staff Hiring

(Mon) DAY 1: Summer/Ticket/FA1:1
(Tue) DAY 2: FA1:2
(Wed) DAY 3: FA1:3
(Thu) DAY 4: FA1:4 (Begin Draft)
(Fri) DAY 5: FA1:5

(Sat-Sun) draft continues

(Mon) DAY 6: FA1:6-12 (Draft Ends)
(Tue) DAY 7: FA2:1-2
(Wed) DAY 8: FA2:3-5
(Thu) DAY 9: TC
(Fri) DAY 10: Pre Season weeks (DROP midweek)

(Mon) DAY 11: Regular Season wk 1-4 (enable Injuries @ 100 for wk 4)
(Tue) DAY 12: Regular Season wk 5-8 (enable Injuries @ 100 for wk 8)
(Wed) DAY 13: Regular Season wk 9-12 (enable Injuries @ 100 for wk 12)
(Thu) DAY 14: Regular Season wk 13-17 (enable Injuries @ 100 for wk 17)
(Fri) DAY 15: Playoffs ALL (NO Injuries)

TheMeat · 03-14-2009, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Unfortunately, I actually believe this to be the case in most leagues as-is. Most of the depth comes from up-and-coming rookies to replace aging guys anyway. The 30-40 rated guys are cheap and provide reasonable backup, and it's all about sinking all your money into a QB and a couple of WRs, maybe a DE and a CB or two. The only thing turning injuries off does is prevent a couple of teams per year from getting taken out early due to a random injury (see Hampton Roads in WOOF this season).

I agree here, not based on a lot of MP experience but it seems injuries (although very realistic in football) just bog down the enjoyment for a lot of people. It adds a random chance to the game for a team to get royally effed, and there's not really much strategy to preventing or dealing with injuries. You can bet your bottom dollar the NFL would set injuries to 0 if it could.

That being said I still like the 4 game chunks, since it allows for a little bit of strategy in gameplanning, and more importantly the chance to switch players that aren't pulling their weight. Another point I would raise, since I'm familiar with 0 injury fast simming is that owners will make mistakes, forget to start someone or have something stupid entered into their gameplan so allowing at least a mid-season break would prevent football rage from people not starting the right guy. It also occurs to me now that people may want time for resignings after training camp, or holdout renegs.

I would say the most important theme through this discusion is that a lot of the old goats here are in multiple leagues and not looking for more of the same old. There are many leagues out there to cater to the game-a-day crowd (I myself just joined the PFL) and I think taking this league in a radical direction is a great idea in order to maintain the interest in this league from the vets, which is what makes any league viable.

Ben E Lou · 03-14-2009, 10:32 PM

Because of the way endurance works in FOF, you're definitely building more than a 22-26 player team. Injuries being off will barely change how I build my team. It'll make me more willing to give out big contracts.

The hourly post idea is a good one, but it would be a buttload of work to actually pull it off and not worth it. Everything I have is coded to post based on the current week of the league--Week 17 in this case. I would either have to do massive code modifications, or sim 17 times in one day. Neither is going to happen.

Ben E Lou · 03-14-2009, 10:34 PM

Oh....and I do not like the 4-game chunks specifically because it encourages people to do some of the very things that they probably *don't* need to be doing in FOF--like acting on the premise that there's anything meaningful to be gleaned from a four-game sample size.

TheMeat · 03-14-2009, 10:47 PM

That's very true Ben, good point. Gameplan testing is best done on one's own time in chunks of seasons anyway, most owners here know what is generally going to work and what isn't and the temptation to make changes is strong and not worth the bother. So if we went to a system like that maybe it'd be best to get the renegs/holdouts done during late free agency, it may make that part of the year more interesting. Then just do Preseason and Regular Season in one go? The more I read other people's thoughts on it the more fun I think it would be to have a league really focused on the GM part of the game, not micromanaging the team, I'm all for any changes the "Ben-E-volent Dictatorship" deems worthy

Sef0r · 03-15-2009, 02:32 AM

Having the season in chunks for me is 80% personnel, 20% gameplanning.

My own preference is to leave things as is, I really like this set up.
Then again, if some owners feel it is too long of a season I will accept whatever.

Sef0r · 03-15-2009, 07:18 PM

I wouldn't mind Ben's original suggestion as long as there was a break between week 4 and 5 so I can adjust personel. Otherwise, as Ben suggested in original post.

The 1 hourly uploads are not important for me. So long as there was a way to give owners the option of clicking on a week to week game log where the score is not shown on the main page these game logs are accessed from.

johnnyshaka · 03-16-2009, 11:13 AM

I'm fine with whatever.

Suicane75 · 03-16-2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Would the "1 traded player per season" rule be out the window under the new incarnation?

iBomb1st · 03-16-2009, 05:20 PM

I dont see why you would get rid of the 1 player trade rule with this proposed setup.

Julio Riddols · 03-17-2009, 05:23 PM

lets effin do it. I dig the season in a day idea.

TheMeat · 03-18-2009, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

lets effin do it. I dig the season in a day idea.

Yup, the more I think about it the more I love it... Lets roll.

Sef0r · 03-18-2009, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

lets effin do it. I dig the season in a day idea.

+1

gstelmack · 03-18-2009, 08:42 AM

So, we're approaching the end of the season. Any call on this?

Ben E Lou · 03-18-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstelmack

So, we're approaching the end of the season. Any call on this?

Two major changes. One goes into effect 2023, the other 2024. - Front Office Football Central

03-13-2009, 12:14 PM	#3
Tasan College Starter Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Houston, or there about	This is exactly what I would want. FOOL for FOF, and that sounds great. The only issues is that we have enough problems keeping 12 people around in FOOL because of the pace. Without a custom league size, we may have to accept a very under-filled league with this pace. __________________ 2011 Golden Scribes winner for best Interactive Dynasty

03-13-2009, 12:18 PM	#4
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	I think the key would be that we make the offseason actually go a little more slowly than it has been (which the schedule above does). The draft would be a full day longer, which would allow longer draft time windows. We're just putting the emphasis on building a team more than running it. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

03-13-2009, 12:26 PM	#5
Yoda High School Varsity Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Woodstock, GA	I'd be interested in it. Though, personally, I'd prefer to hire my coaches. editing stupid part __________________ Championships Won CCFL 2040 PFL 2015 2022 2026 2046 FFL 2013 2014 2015 RNFL 2014 2029 GMFL 2009 HFL 1983 1987 1990 TFL 1983 vNFL 2024 GML 2011 WOOF 2018 Last edited by Yoda : 03-13-2009 at 12:35 PM.

03-13-2009, 12:35 PM	#6
gstelmack Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Cary, NC	Why 2 days to sim the season if injuries are off? I won't be sticking around because 1 league with FA rules is enough for me to keep track of. But the concept is interesting. __________________ -- Greg -- Author of various FOF utilities

03-13-2009, 12:41 PM	#9
Shard77 Mascot Join Date: Apr 2005	I prefer Option 1 to Option 2. I don't really enjoy the prospect of losing half my starting lineups to injury each year....while it may be more realistic it just sucks the fun out of the league for me. Two suggestions: I'd still like to keep one stage for coach hiring since it does affect performance and player development. I've never gotten a good hire from auto-hires. Would it be possible to split the season into quarters instead of halves? That way, if we've got some young players that aren't performing up to par or developing the way we envisioned we have an opportunity to make a few adjustments during the season. (Maybe this doesn't fit mold of what you're envisioning for the league). __________________ PFL - Indianapolis Colts (Commissioner) WOOF - Delaware Chupacabras Last edited by Shard77 : 03-13-2009 at 12:58 PM.

03-13-2009, 12:08 PM	#2
eckman n00b Join Date: Jul 2005	I was defiantly dropping out after this season. I have just lost interest in this league. I would consider sticking around with a radical twist like this. I am more into building a team and the draft rather than game planning.

03-13-2009, 12:35 PM	#7
MalcPow College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: San Diego	I would prefer this greatly.

03-13-2009, 12:53 PM	#12
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	You're dead on, Greg. I think if we do it, we do it all the way. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

03-13-2009, 01:00 PM	#13
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	Yeah, if you're gonna go fast-sim, go fast all of the way. I've done two different fast-sim leagues now...and it's almost always better to keep the pace brisk, because if you drag out the off-season too long, it makes it boring. The idea is to sim lots of seasons to 1) build a history and 2) get immersed quicker, because that means people 3) stay interested and participate more actively. But when the off-season gets dragged out, people start to hyperfocus on the small details of the off-season and things get lame quickly. __________________ Current Dynasty:The Zenith of Professional Basketball Careers (FBPB/FBCB) FBCB / FPB3 Mods

03-13-2009, 01:54 PM	#15
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	I am cool with whatever. I like having sim results every morning but this would be different enough to keep it interesting. __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com

03-13-2009, 02:33 PM	#16
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	mo fasta, mo betta

03-13-2009, 02:59 PM	#18
Tasan College Starter Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Houston, or there about	The season in one day? I'm all for that. The closer we get to a FOOL model, the happier I am. This stuff is like crack. __________________ 2011 Golden Scribes winner for best Interactive Dynasty

03-13-2009, 03:32 PM	#19
TheMeat n00b Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Alberta	I'm all in for this, I really really enjoy the drafting and player management part of this game and I like the idea of taking this league in a very different direction for people who don't just want another league like the others. The only other MP FOF I play is with my good friend in RL, we have injuries right off and usually go step by step through the offseason at our own pace then get together over MSN and zip through the season in an hour or so. We like it because you can see your players go through careers in some decent amount of time instead of it taking a real life year to see it through. __________________ Owner/GM/Head Coach and Towel Boy for the St. Louis Rams.of the FOWL Owner of the Green Bay Packers of the PFL. First Response Coordinator of Public Relations Disasters for the Balzac Ticklers of the FOOLX. (retired) Owner/GM of the soon to be awesome Fort Worth Fury of the IHOF

03-13-2009, 03:50 PM	#20
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	Something that quik suggested elsewhere that I would like to at least mention here... Sim the regular season and then program the posting robot so that it posts each week's results every hour. Sure you could get the file on the front end, but it would be fun for folks who follow along at work and don't have game access. __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com

03-13-2009, 04:13 PM	#22
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	posting robots rock

03-13-2009, 04:42 PM	#23
Johnny93g College Starter Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Toronto	I've been enjoying the 1 game a day pace we have been going at, but i totally understand the want for something different. I don't think i would like the "sim a whole season in one day" thing, but if that's what everyone wants, i'm ok with that. __________________ FOOL- Toronto Marlboros FOOL Classic Champions 2073, 2078, 2079, 2114, 2116, 2117, 2129, 2152, 2155, 2169, 2192 46 35 FOOL H- New York Giants World Champions 1914, 1928 BBCF: Notre Dame TML

03-14-2009, 03:35 AM	#25
Suicane75 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NJ	Would the "1 traded player per season" rule be out the window under the new incarnation? I'm in either way.

03-14-2009, 06:33 AM	#26
Sef0r n00b Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: New Zealand	I am sorry to be a poopa to the rest of the ideas in here but I, like a few others like waking up to my game logs in the morning. If the game played the players according to their ratings I would be fine with a 1 day sim of all games. But it doesn't, there are players that look like they should be FA's who are leading their teams to Wins and those who should be elite play like crap. However, maybe a happy medium? Here is my 2c (making it 3 weeks esentially) Keep staff hiring, but make it a Sunday task so those that want to do it can do it before FA1 and those that don't want to can just skip it. (Sun) DAY 0: Begin Staff Hiring (Mon) DAY 1: Summer/Ticket/FA1:1 (Tue) DAY 2: FA1:2 (Wed) DAY 3: FA1:3 (Thu) DAY 4: FA1:4 (Begin Draft) (Fri) DAY 5: FA1:5 (Sat-Sun) draft continues (Mon) DAY 6: FA1:6-12 (Draft Ends) (Tue) DAY 7: FA2:1-2 (Wed) DAY 8: FA2:3-5 (Thu) DAY 9: TC (Fri) DAY 10: Midweek (Mon) DAY 11: Pre Season weeks (Tue) DAY 12: Regular Season weeks 1-5 (Wed) DAY 13: Regular Season weeks 6-12 (Thu) DAY 14: Regular Season weeks 13-17 (Fri) DAY 15: Playoffs (ALL) I prefer to be able to make adjustments during the season. If I have a player who isn't performing after the first 5 weeks I want to be able to make changes. Then another adjustment after week 12 for the last 4 weeks. Usually if you are in the hunt for the playoffs, the last 4 weeks matters the most (aside from the weeks 1-12 of course) so you want to be able to make adjustments based on this. If of course you don't want to make adjustments, just leave things as they are and basically take a break for the 5 days these sims are run.

03-14-2009, 01:21 PM	#27
Shard77 Mascot Join Date: Apr 2005	I played in the FastFL and the one thing I didn't like about playing with injuries off is that it basically became a competition to see who could field the best 22 players. Unless you've got players with serious End issues, depth really doesn't matter. Unfortunately, any time you're simming more than one week at a time, you really have no choice but to shut injuries off. __________________ PFL - Indianapolis Colts (Commissioner) WOOF - Delaware Chupacabras

03-14-2009, 02:03 PM	#28
MalcPow College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: San Diego	If we'd like to capture some of the challenge of maintaining depth, we could use a sim schedule like the one Sef0r suggests with injuries on for the last game of each of the sim blocks. This would reduce injuries, but it would also increase the impact of some injuries. Any "Out" injury, even one that is not particularly serious would keep a player out of the next sim block of games.

03-14-2009, 05:59 PM	#29
Johnny93g College Starter Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Toronto	I really don't like the idea of playing with injuries off. All of a sudden, your not building a 53 man team, your building 22-26 player team. __________________ FOOL- Toronto Marlboros FOOL Classic Champions 2073, 2078, 2079, 2114, 2116, 2117, 2129, 2152, 2155, 2169, 2192 46 35 FOOL H- New York Giants World Champions 1914, 1928 BBCF: Notre Dame TML

03-14-2009, 07:08 PM	#30
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	Some more fast-sim thoughts that came to me, that might help: It's got to be breezy and if you start making it so it benefits people who invest more time in it, then you've killed the model, because it's intentionally designed to test your skills at the once-over. If people are spending more time on their fast-sim team to prepare it for the season than it takes to run the season, they're taking too long, because the model is specifically designed to get people to speed up...to make choices quicker... Think speed chess, only we're not able to legislate prep time in an online league. But if you could, coupled with the whole "run the season quickly thing" then it works because you're testing folks on all levels of the game, with the idea being "that didn't work, I'll try something different next year." It's just glorified solo league, against other people. But I can see where folks who play solo slowly or tinker a lot, could hate that kind of model. The great equalizer of fast-sim is that it takes the guys who are dabbling and the ones who are pros and throws them in a pot and handicaps the guy who knows a lot, by making him plan ahead and adjust in the fly, meaning that things won't always work out they way they're "supposed" to and thus, they won't win as much. The idea is to field the best damn team you can, put them out there and see what happens. I think FOF makes it a bit more of a challenge to do that, because of the way talent can't be rigged to be distributed better than in say OOTP, but...maybe for that reason it's even better in football because you'll have a bunch of flawed teams all missing something and so, the parity drags everyone to the middle, keeping it interesting. Anyway..this spawned out of a different convo and I thought it should go someplace.

03-14-2009, 09:24 PM	#32
Sef0r n00b Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: New Zealand	I like MalcPow's suggestion on injuries. However, I like it the way it is, 1 game a day. The suggestion is only if most votes went for a faster sim. We could split the regular season into quarters and enable injuries on the last sim day. In order to keeping with the idea of making it a total of 15 weekdays we could DROP the Midweek after training camp. I am sure owners can manage to drop to the required 53 for the pre season sim. If you are like me, you will get the weekend to analyse game logs to see how well your reserves played and to possibly find the starter at some positions. (Sun) DAY 0: Begin Staff Hiring (Mon) DAY 1: Summer/Ticket/FA1:1 (Tue) DAY 2: FA1:2 (Wed) DAY 3: FA1:3 (Thu) DAY 4: FA1:4 (Begin Draft) (Fri) DAY 5: FA1:5 (Sat-Sun) draft continues (Mon) DAY 6: FA1:6-12 (Draft Ends) (Tue) DAY 7: FA2:1-2 (Wed) DAY 8: FA2:3-5 (Thu) DAY 9: TC (Fri) DAY 10: Pre Season weeks (DROP midweek) (Mon) DAY 11: Regular Season wk 1-4 (enable Injuries @ 100 for wk 4) (Tue) DAY 12: Regular Season wk 5-8 (enable Injuries @ 100 for wk 8) (Wed) DAY 13: Regular Season wk 9-12 (enable Injuries @ 100 for wk 12) (Thu) DAY 14: Regular Season wk 13-17 (enable Injuries @ 100 for wk 17) (Fri) DAY 15: Playoffs ALL (NO Injuries) Last edited by Sef0r : 03-14-2009 at 09:27 PM.

03-14-2009, 10:32 PM	#34
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	Because of the way endurance works in FOF, you're definitely building more than a 22-26 player team. Injuries being off will barely change how I build my team. It'll make me more willing to give out big contracts. The hourly post idea is a good one, but it would be a buttload of work to actually pull it off and not worth it. Everything I have is coded to post based on the current week of the league--Week 17 in this case. I would either have to do massive code modifications, or sim 17 times in one day. Neither is going to happen. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

03-14-2009, 10:34 PM	#35
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	Oh....and I do not like the 4-game chunks specifically because it encourages people to do some of the very things that they probably don't need to be doing in FOF--like acting on the premise that there's anything meaningful to be gleaned from a four-game sample size. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

03-14-2009, 10:47 PM	#36
TheMeat n00b Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Alberta	That's very true Ben, good point. Gameplan testing is best done on one's own time in chunks of seasons anyway, most owners here know what is generally going to work and what isn't and the temptation to make changes is strong and not worth the bother. So if we went to a system like that maybe it'd be best to get the renegs/holdouts done during late free agency, it may make that part of the year more interesting. Then just do Preseason and Regular Season in one go? The more I read other people's thoughts on it the more fun I think it would be to have a league really focused on the GM part of the game, not micromanaging the team, I'm all for any changes the "Ben-E-volent Dictatorship" deems worthy __________________ Owner/GM/Head Coach and Towel Boy for the St. Louis Rams.of the FOWL Owner of the Green Bay Packers of the PFL. First Response Coordinator of Public Relations Disasters for the Balzac Ticklers of the FOOLX. (retired) Owner/GM of the soon to be awesome Fort Worth Fury of the IHOF

03-15-2009, 02:32 AM	#37
Sef0r n00b Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: New Zealand	Having the season in chunks for me is 80% personnel, 20% gameplanning. My own preference is to leave things as is, I really like this set up. Then again, if some owners feel it is too long of a season I will accept whatever.

03-15-2009, 07:18 PM	#38
Sef0r n00b Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: New Zealand	I wouldn't mind Ben's original suggestion as long as there was a break between week 4 and 5 so I can adjust personel. Otherwise, as Ben suggested in original post. The 1 hourly uploads are not important for me. So long as there was a way to give owners the option of clicking on a week to week game log where the score is not shown on the main page these game logs are accessed from. Last edited by Sef0r : 03-15-2009 at 07:22 PM.

03-16-2009, 11:13 AM	#39
johnnyshaka College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Edmonton, AB	I'm fine with whatever.

03-16-2009, 05:20 PM	#41
iBomb1st n00b Join Date: Jan 2009	I dont see why you would get rid of the 1 player trade rule with this proposed setup.

03-17-2009, 05:23 PM	#42
Julio Riddols College Prospect Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Bryson Shitty, NC	lets effin do it. I dig the season in a day idea. __________________ Recklessly enthused, stubbornly amused. FUCK EA

03-18-2009, 08:42 AM	#45
gstelmack Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Cary, NC	So, we're approaching the end of the season. Any call on this? __________________ -- Greg -- Author of various FOF utilities

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