2027 FA2:1 Complete

[Ben E Lou]

DAILY DOZEN: Most Noteworthy Signings

	PHI	T Randy Ogden (86/86)	Signed as an unrestricted free agent from Cleveland	5yrs, $128.5M
	NED	WR Ross Bensen (73/73)	Signed as an unrestricted free agent from San Francisco	4yrs, $65.2M
	NYK	QB Cedric Brady (35/55)	Resigned as an unrestricted free agent	5yrs, $82.9M
	DEN	DT Darrell Kearney (63/63)	Signed as an unrestricted free agent from San Diego	5yrs, $36.9M
	MIA	QB Antonio DuBois (44/44)	Signed as an unrestricted free agent from Cleveland	4yrs, $28.7M
	MIA	ILB Bill Walton (61/61)	Signed as an unrestricted free agent from Buffalo	5yrs, $31.4M
	NED	CB Ross Willis (57/57)	Signed as an unrestricted free agent from San Diego	6yrs, $34.5M
	MIA	T C.J. Fisk (64/69)	Resigned as an unrestricted free agent	6yrs, $24.4M
	NED	OLB Shaun Blackburn (55/55)	Signed as an unrestricted free agent from San Diego	5yrs, $19.3M
	KCY	S Oliver Hudrlik (50/50)	Resigned as an unrestricted free agent	5yrs, $16.6M
	NED	ILB Phillip Burns (59/59)	Signed as an unrestricted free agent from New York	3yrs, $9.0M
	MIA	S Charlie Terry (51/51)	Signed as an unrestricted free agent from Minnesota	5yrs, $15.0M

[wade moore]

Well then - this whole FA thing is finally getting competitive. I tuned down some offers because of dramatically outbidding people in the past and "wasting money" and it bit me in the ass.

[Ben E Lou]

Heh. Nice move, Suicane.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Well then - this whole FA thing is finally getting competitive. I tuned down some offers because of dramatically outbidding people in the past and "wasting money" and it bit me in the ass.

I actually had money this year to spend thanks to not getting my export in on time yesterday

[Julio Riddols]

Kerr must've been impressed by the hooker we got him for that extra 10 k.

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Heh. Nice move, Suicane.

Drinking and exporting never mix?

[TheMeat]

Suicane's on Tilt!!!

And I got mad OT talent!! Three guys at 76+!!!

Free Agency madness!!! One more day till the lightning round!!!

ZOMG!!!

[QuikSand]

I am well aware that in the sizable majority of cases when these things happen, the root cause is user error.

But this is the second straight season where I prepared a file for FA 2:1 only to see it not appear on the files list. I still have the (sizable) file, time stamped 6:09pm Friday (after I stayed late to prepare it) and I have a recollection of uploading it and being taken to the file page... but alas, BAL is not listed as having submitted a file. Lovely.

[Sef0r]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I am well aware that in the sizable majority of cases when these things happen, the root cause is user error.

But this is the second straight season where I prepared a file for FA 2:1 only to see it not appear on the files list. I still have the (sizable) file, time stamped 6:09pm Friday (after I stayed late to prepare it) and I have a recollection of uploading it and being taken to the file page... but alas, BAL is not listed as having submitted a file. Lovely.

Does this happen all the time? In other sims? If BAL does not show up on the uploaded area before the sim I would suggest asking Ben if you can email him.

Can I just thank Suicane, you've shown me a new way to offer contracts. Actually I think Ben was the first that I have seen do it when he took Wade's QB some seasons ago. But man, offering 5 year deals at those rates...I am going to give it a ago

[Julio Riddols]

Now are we going to allow this type of contract in future seasons? If so, everyone might as well start making identical offers.

Seems like a bit exploitative - Maybe we shouldn't allow for FA to be signed to deals where the salary goes up by more than 2x from one season to the next.

Now, if next season rolls around and these players ask for the same amount of money that they were already getting paid, I have no problem with this - But if they're willing to negotiate back down to much cheaper numbers, then everyone is going to start offering the exact same type of contract.

Or - Ben, could you possibly run some tests to see what kind of three year bonus+minsal deal needs to be offered in order to top one of these backloaded offers? If its not anything major, then I could give a rats ass how the contracts are structured.

[Ben E Lou]

Julio, it's very easy to top these types of deals. I've already tested it. All you need to do is offera bit more bonus and year 1 salary. The key here is that the guys Suicane signed were offered either *no* other contract, or a contract that gave them even less early money. And based on past experience, I already have a really good idea what they'll ask for to reneg. Suicane will end up either paying them $30M next year, or cutting them. It's not an exploit.

Question for everyone regarding Quik's issue: I don't know if it's unique to my login as commish, but I see two upload boxes, one for the league file, and another for my team upload. It allows me to upload my export in the league file slot, but it doesn't go into the export list, I'm pretty sure. I'm wondering if it's something like that.

[Julio Riddols]

I was thinking that was likely the case, which is why i began to backpedal a bit there toward the end of my post. No complaint from me then.

[Julio Riddols]

As for the upload issue, I haven't had any issues as far as i can tell. The one time my upload didn't take was when I uploaded the wrong stage a few seasons ago. And there is only one upload box for us.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Question for everyone regarding Quik's issue: I don't know if it's unique to my login as commish, but I see two upload boxes, one for the league file, and another for my team upload. It allows me to upload my export in the league file slot, but it doesn't go into the export list, I'm pretty sure. I'm wondering if it's something like that.

I only see one upload box myself (for my team export). I do not have a box or option to upload the league file with my login.

I haven't had any problems with my upload going up as far as I am aware of.

[QuikSand]

I don't see anything unusual when uploading, and my file just gets added to the list with other teams.

I still rank user error as the most likely culprit, alas. Last season I did my file while very intoxicated, and this season I was pretty harried. Guess I got careless and failed to upload at all. I guess it's effectively become my house rule in this league.

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

Now are we going to allow this type of contract in future seasons? If so, everyone might as well start making identical offers.

Seems like a bit exploitative - Maybe we shouldn't allow for FA to be signed to deals where the salary goes up by more than 2x from one season to the next.

Now, if next season rolls around and these players ask for the same amount of money that they were already getting paid, I have no problem with this - But if they're willing to negotiate back down to much cheaper numbers, then everyone is going to start offering the exact same type of contract.

Or - Ben, could you possibly run some tests to see what kind of three year bonus+minsal deal needs to be offered in order to top one of these backloaded offers? If its not anything major, then I could give a rats ass how the contracts are structured.

on top of what Ben said, what Suicane is doing is really screwing over his team. He landed some decent players, so if he wants to renegotiate with them, they wont sign for anything less than half of base salary per year. And if his intention is to just jump them at the end of the year, team cohesion is going to be in the tank for a long time.

[TheMeat]

Maybe his intention is to keep them all and be 300 million over the cap next year since there's really no penalty for doing so? Brilliant

[Sef0r]

Originally Posted by TheMeat

Maybe his intention is to keep them all and be 300 million over the cap next year since there's really no penalty for doing so? Brilliant

That is an interesting point. I think there should be enforced cuts to the highest paid players until the team is under the cap for next season.

In saying that, after all those offers all he got was esentially two T's to go with other starter quality Ts on his team.

[Tasan]

Maybe we should have a penalty something along the lines of not getting to submit an export in FA1:1 next season, or maybe FA2:1 next season for being over the cap.

The first one prevents you from resigning RFAs and getting your cap down, and the second could make you miss out on some prime FAs.

[Ben E Lou]

Help me with why this is needed. Isn't the fact that you can't sign any new FAs, extend guys who want more money, and run the risk of having to cut really good players if you have some untimely retirements enough of a risk here? Am I missing something?

[TheMeat]

No I don't think you're missing anything, and until we have some reason to believe it's bad for the league in the long run I don't think we need any rule. I'm a big fan of the fewest rules possible. I think the strategy is interesting but I think it comes with obvious drawbacks that will make it undesirable.

[Tasan]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Help me with why this is needed. Isn't the fact that you can't sign any new FAs, extend guys who want more money, and run the risk of having to cut really good players if you have some untimely retirements enough of a risk here? Am I missing something?

Is there any way, say this offseason, that a team could go over the cap for the season, but be under due to end of contracts and stuff by next season? Thats the only thing that would piss me off, is if someone went over the cap now but knew they'd be back under next season due to contracts expiring.

[chinaski]

We've been saying all along, since switching to this format, that this is a team building, cap management league. So regardless of those big base contract offers, I think we should be required to be at or under the salary cap by FA2:1. Just muh 2 copper.

[Julio Riddols]

Hell, the only thing I was really worried about was the thought that if this was a viable way to get quality FA and keep them. If its not, no worries, because you cant sign new players if you don't have any money. Its a calculated risk at best, and not an exploit of any kind IMO - All I needed to know was that it is not a viable means of acquiring and maintaining a roster of studs for the long term.

I kind of dig the creativity of the offers in hindsight.

[TheMeat]

Ya, I dig it too, and pondered lengthily (new word, use it) on whether it would be a dangerous exploit. But here's the situation, Suicane is already penciled in for over 400mil in salaries next year and for the next 5 years since most of his contracts were of that length. That means that if he comes up short even one player short of a legal roster he's gotta cut all those guys to get room to fill his roster or the computer will do it for him.

If he manages to get all the players for a legal roster signed up for a 5 year run before today's stage runs then good on him but even then he'll have his gang of heroes together for that glorious shot at a dynasty and I'm not overly afraid of his team so no problem.

The part that even I keep forgetting about, and I think this would be Ben's one and only point, is that the huge salary in future years was just unnecessary. Suicane could have signed all these guys for much much less in total contract because 90% of what a player is concerned with when considering contracts is Bonus+1st year salary. The 30mil in salary for future years was not why these players signed with him. Ben did a sufficiently conclusive test in the first couple years of the league to prove that this type of backloading is just superfluous and needn't be worried about.

[Suicane75]

I know some things now that I should of known then but I didn't cause I had to do them for myself to see, still not convinced I don't know what I should of known cause I havn't seen everything yet.

I'm like Cliff Gardner when he told his brother in law that he could make glass tubes. I know I can't make TV sets, but I think I can make glass tubes.

Hey, does anyone wanna trade for a Guard or Tackle?

[QuikSand]

I really don't understand the hubbub. Honestly, the game does a pretty decent job sorting through contract offers at this point -- and for the most part, to the extent that it makes bad decisions (in my opinion, separating the value of long term versus short term contracts is the main problem on that front) at least it makes them in pretty predictable ways.

If the league doesn't want Philadephia (or anyone) to lock up a deal with $1.5m in bonus per year and not very much guaranteed salary... there's a pretty simple remedy to that so-called "exploit." What is the remedy? Do better.

Not one of these players who accepted the backloaded contract offers would have turned down an offer from another team of, say, 3 years and $30 million with half of the money in signing bonus. But nobody offered anything like that, and the backloaded deal won out. Whose fault is it? Ours.

So, even if it turns out that Philadelphia gets to reneg much of that money away and comes out of this process with some under-market signings.... what is the proper way to see that it doesn't happen again? I say it isn't for us to legislate some new policy, it's simply for all of us to wake up and do our jobs.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Not one of these players who accepted the backloaded contract offers would have turned down an offer from another team of, say, 3 years and $30 million with half of the money in signing bonus. But nobody offered anything like that, and the backloaded deal won out. Whose fault is it? Ours.

I have been quiet because I pretty much agree with you. I think people are missing the fact that I had at least one player where my 3 year, $23 million deal beat out Phily's huge backloaded contract. So his contract really doesn't bother me much at all. I got the player I wanted, and didn't bid on the others.

[TheMeat]

Precisely QS, the player would've taken any contract with a little more bonus and/or first year money. Ogden, for example didn't get any other offer except my 3 yr $9mil offer with only 1mil bonus per year. I'm almost positive he would've taken my offer if it had twice as much bonus. So the lesson really is that people need to be aware that a player will take what he can get even if it's well below his market value. So offer a player what you would be willing to pay him, don't assume you'll get outbid, you'd be surprised how often you can get a player for a good price. Will be interesting to see what those players will reneg for but I'd be surprised if it was less than their market value.

I'm not seeing anyone with a big problem with Suicane's contracts but hopefully after reading this thread they'll understand there's no problem.

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by chinaski

We've been saying all along, since switching to this format, that this is a team building, cap management league. So regardless of those big base contract offers, I think we should be required to be at or under the salary cap by FA2:1. Just muh 2 copper.

Im not sure if the subsequent posts after mine are directed at me? I said regardless of the big base contracts, we should be required to be at or under the cap. Im not speaking directly about Phillys offers at all.

[TheMeat]

Mine wren't at all, as I said I didn't see anyone with a problem with Philly's offers. But as far as the cap goes I think it comes with it's own penalties. Not being able to sign players and such is a major problem that would deter anyone from purposefully going over the cap and any rule made might punish people taking over teams, or inexperienced players who go over accidentally. Until we see that there is some way to exploit the game by going over the cap I don't see the need for a rule.