College football - Week 10

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by panerd

Easy answer (and this is from 4 years ago). What other sporting event has a huge money making moster like this? Each game in an even an 8 team playoff would have to bring in 20 to 25 million dollars. Exlplain how that will happen?

How does a playoff preclude having the other bowl games? They get played now even though they have no bearing on the national title (or even national relevance for the lower ones). Heck, they have 1-AA/FCS Bowl games concurrently with a larger playoff than anyone is proposing FBS have.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by molson

Who's going to do that? The current system makes money and sports are based on money, not fairness. And you can't really compare the pro leagues, which are all centrally organized groups of teams which are all, in theory, equal. Even if Congress, god forbid, ordered an NCAA playoff, the BCS schools would just withdraw and we'd have a "National Championship Tournament" with the Mountain West and WAC.

At least Rainmaker would get his Boise/TCU matchup. :-)

[mauchow]

You could still easily have as many bowl games that generate the same amount of cash as now. Having a playoff won't diminish the already watered-down Bowl season. I love the way BBCF does the playoffs. The non-aq schools will make more money in the games than they would have in the Meineke Car Care bowl...which would they rather have? A nearly sure loss playoff game or a bowl game they have a better chance to win? ... i would hope they'd want the playoff game and more $$.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

How does a playoff preclude having the other bowl games? They get played now even though they have no bearing on the national title (or even national relevance for the lower ones). Heck, they have 1-AA/FCS Bowl games concurrently with a larger playoff than anyone is proposing FBS have.

You may be right there but it doesn't diminish the fact that they make less money (probably much less money IMO). I am 100% certain that they make more money this way than they would with a playoff. How do I know this? Because we would have a playoff right now if it made more money.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

You could still easily have as many bowl games that generate the same amount of cash as now. Having a playoff won't diminish the already watered-down Bowl season. I love the way BBCF does the playoffs. The non-aq schools will make more money in the games than they would have in the Meineke Car Care bowl...which would they rather have? A nearly sure loss playoff game or a bowl game they have a better chance to win? ... i would hope they'd want the playoff game and more $$.

I have to disagree with some certainty here. If the playoff game made more $$ they would do a playoff. Obviously it doesn't. They aren't that soaked in tradition, they are that soaked in money.

[molson]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

How does a playoff preclude having the other bowl games? They get played now even though they have no bearing on the national title (or even national relevance for the lower ones). Heck, they have 1-AA/FCS Bowl games concurrently with a larger playoff than anyone is proposing FBS have.

A playoff would kill whatever financial viability the bowls have left. The Rose bowl isn't the Rose Bowl if it's what - the 4th place teams of the Big Ten and Pac-10?

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Phil Steele has them for 16.

Despite that dont you think Boise should get the chance before TCU? Boise didnt lose last season and hasnt lost this season.

I'd be pretty pissed off if they choose TCU over Boise St in the National Championship game.

Boise has 2 BCS bowl victories under their belt. I think they have proven they deserve a shot.

The problem here is that TCU has a far more impressive win on their resume this year than anything BSU has done. Boise State is going to have to absolutely smoke Nevada (and hope that Nevada enters that game with only 1 loss) to come close to TCU's beatdown of Utah. And that doesn't even account for another impressive win with their 45-10 blowout over a pretty good Baylor team.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by panerd

Easy answer (and this is from 4 years ago). What other sporting event has a huge money making moster like this? Each game in an even an 8 team playoff would have to bring in 20 to 25 million dollars. Exlplain how that will happen?

BOWL PAYOUT BREAKDOWN

Bowl Per team payout

Poinsettia $750,000

Pioneer PureVision Las Vegas $950,000

R+L Carriers New Orleans $325,000

Papajohns.com $300,000

New Mexico $750,000

Bell Helicopter Armed Forces $600,000

Sheraton Hawaii $398,000

Motor City $750,000

Emerald $850,000

PetroSun Independence $1.1 million

Texas $500,000 for Big East, $750,000 for Big 12

Pacific Life Holiday $2.2 million

Gaylord Hotels Music City $1.6 million

Brut Sun $1.9 million

AutoZone Liberty $1.5 million

Insight $1.2 million

Champs Sports $2.25 million

Meineke Car Care $750,000

Alamo $2.2 million

Chick-fil-A $3.25 million for ACC, $2.4 million for SEC

MPC Computers $250,000

Outback $3 million

AT&T Cotton $3 million

Toyota Gator $2.25 million

Capital One $4.25 million

Rose $17 million **

Tostitos Fiesta $17 million ***

FedEx Orange $17 million

Allstate Sugar $17 million *,**

International $750,000

GMAC $750,000

Tostitos BCS Championship $17 million

The mid-tier and lower bowl games rarely ever payout those amounts. It often comes down to bartering with the schools for what they will take in return for an invite. For instance, Florida Atlantic got a Motor City Bowl birth a few years ago because they were willing to take no money from the group behind the bowl.

That also doesn't account for the fact that schools are required to sell a certain number of tickets to each game. Usually always in the 5-figure range. Few schools every hit that mark, even for the most prestiguous bowls and are required to eat millions in fees. Virginia Tech lost nearly $2 million in unsold tickets for the Orange Bowl. You can call it a "cover charge" that is rarely reported by people trying to claim the bowl system makes schools money. Most schools lose money on their bowl invites. The folks at Yahoo! went through public records of all the public schools to show this.

Schools actually make more money from a regular old home game against a crappy opponent. It's why a school like Florida will give up $500k to an FCS school for a game. They make roughly $4-$5 million for each home game.

And that doesn't account for television. The NCAA recently signed a deal with CBS for nearly a billion dollars a year for the rights to the basketball tournament. I find it hard to believe that the TV deal for 3-4 week football tournament would not be astronomical. Especially considering those games actually mean something and are not glorified consolation games (which don't get good ratings). And allowing teams with higher seeds to have home games would produce more money for schools and give even more incentive for winning. Especially since they aren't required to buy tickets they'll never be able to sell.

The money is shit for college football's postseason compared to what it should be. So that argument doesn't fly. Sure it works out nicely for the groups running bowls, ESPN, BCS conference directors, and coaches, but it hurts the overall schools greatly.

[mauchow]

Originally Posted by panerd

I have to disagree with some certainty here. If the playoff game made more $$ they would do a playoff. Obviously it doesn't. They aren't that soaked in tradition, they are that soaked in money.

The BCS bowl games would no longer have to pay out huge money to the teams participating since the same teams will be playing up to 3-4 games through the playoffs. Divvy out the money throughout the other bowl games to ensure one team doesn't rake in 3-4 times of huge $$. The build up to the Championship Game would be TREMENDOUSLY huge and the system it seems could make up for the loss of the 5 BCS games.

I don't know, I tend to leave myself out of these discussions but I am definitely Pro-Playoffs and would attempt to create an argument for it. *shrug*

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by molson

A playoff would kill whatever financial viability the bowls have left. The Rose bowl isn't the Rose Bowl if it's what - the 4th place teams of the Big Ten and Pac-10?

I would have to assume the current BCS bowls are incorporated into the playoff system as well as a couple others. I don't see why fans are particularly excited to go to the Music City Bowl, or the Humanitarian Bowl, or the New Mexico Bowl in the first place, but I don't see why the level of excitement would change with the better teams being involved in a playoff instead of merely other bowl games.

[molson]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Sure it works out nicely for the groups running bowls, ESPN, BCS conference directors, and coaches, but it hurts the overall schools greatly.

And the NCAA is completely subservient to those groups.

[molson]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I would have to assume the current BCS bowls are incorporated into the playoff system as well as a couple others. I don't see why fans are particularly excited to go to the Music City Bowl, or the Humanitarian Bowl, or the New Mexico Bowl in the first place, but I don't see why the level of excitement would change with the better teams being involved in a playoff instead of merely other bowl games.

Yes, in the sense that if there's ever a playoff, it will have to be through the BCS, and not through the NCAA. There could be some kind of deal there. I don't see a 16-team team tournament with the quarter final games all just named after traditional bowls, that basically just turns the bowls into sponsorships. But I could see a +2 or +4 after the bowls, or some kind of setup where you have to win the Fiesta Bowl to get somewhere else.

I've been to one or two low-level bowls. It can be a good time. Just a drunken party weekend with college friends and other alum. Usually in a vacation destination. I guess you don't really need football for that, but it works out.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

Who's going to do that? The current system makes money and sports are based on money, not fairness. And you can't really compare the pro leagues, which are all centrally organized groups of teams which are all, in theory, equal. Even if Congress, god forbid, ordered an NCAA playoff, the BCS schools would just withdraw and we'd have a "National Championship Tournament" with the Mountain West and WAC.

It only makes more money for people in certain positions. Colleges as a whole would make more money from a playoff. This isn't really disputed, even people who have supported the BCS have said as much.

It might be about money, but not for the schools. Just for businessmen, conference presidents, ADs, and coaches.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

And the NCAA is completely subservient to those groups.

They are in college football. You do know why the BCS was created, don't you? So the NCAA has no power over college football's postseason and freeze out certain conferences from the money.

When it comes to college football, the conferences have way more power than the NCAA. Didn't realize this was news.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

Yes, in the sense that if there's ever a playoff, it will have to be through the BCS, and not through the NCAA. There could be some kind of deal there. I don't see a 16-team team tournament with the quarter final games all just named after traditional bowls, that basically just turns the bowls into sponsorships. But I could see a +2 or +4 after the bowls, or some kind of setup where you have to win the Fiesta Bowl to get somewhere else.

I've been to one or two low-level bowls. It can be a good time. Just a drunken party weekend with college friends and other alum. Usually in a vacation destination. I guess you don't really need football for that, but it works out.

Who gives a shit about the bowls? Only a handful actually have some tradition these days and even those have been so over-commercialized that people associate their sponsor as much as the actual bowl game.

And if you want to keep some of the big name bowls, why not move them to the regular season? Have a kickoff weekend with them. Would be a great way to start a season instead of watching power schools slaughter a bunch of FCS schools.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Would be a great way to start a season instead of watching power schools slaughter a bunch of FCS schools.

Not if you're the power school selling out the stadium to play NorthSouthEastWest State.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by molson

I've been to one or two low-level bowls. It can be a good time. Just a drunken party weekend with college friends and other alum. Usually in a vacation destination. I guess you don't really need football for that, but it works out.

And since it's mostly used as an excuse for a vacation reunion, whether among younger (and drunker) graduates or older alumni/donors, I don't see why it would change regardless of whether the better teams are in BCS Bowls or a playoff. (That's also why I singled out bowls like the Humanitarian/New Mexico instead of Las Vegas/New Orleans based ones.)

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Not if you're the power school selling out the stadium to play NorthSouthEastWest State.

Different type of fans. Those fans are more about the atmosphere and college part. Others are football fans. If you look at ticket sites, seeing Florida play Alabama is going to have much higher prices than Florida vs Appalachian State.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by panerd

Tostitos BCS Championship $17 million

That's 85 Cam Newtons!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Different type of fans. Those fans are more about the atmosphere and college part. Others are football fans. If you look at ticket sites, seeing Florida play Alabama is going to have much higher prices than Florida vs Appalachian State.

But who is buying those tickets? These same fans that pay the bigger bucks are the ones who also go to the much worse games (or rather, they buy the tickets, which some gift or sell off)

The number of "hey, let's go a road trip that happens to have a football game attached" is pretty damned small, at least in any big-time program I've ever been familiar with. The Sugar Bowl used to have a certain amount of that back in the old SEC-bowl-tie days, but it was still the same basic crowd.

[molson]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

They are in college football. You do know why the BCS was created, don't you? So the NCAA has no power over college football's postseason and freeze out certain conferences from the money.

When it comes to college football, the conferences have way more power than the NCAA. Didn't realize this was news.

Right, there's no entity really that protecting the interests of "colleges as a whole". I'm not even disagreeing about the value of a playoff, I just don't know which entity you're imploring to set it up. Because it doesn't make sense for any entity with any power.

I kind of like the idea of pre-season bowl games though. A pre-season Rose Bowl game between last year's Big Ten/Pac-10 conference champions would be a big deal. That does kind of seem like an untapped market, because people are just READY for college football at that point, and that first week tends to be very high profile (and too often its just a 1-AA tuneup for a name program).