Civ 4 Democracy Dynasty - using ViSa Modpack

[Flasch186]

This is my first attempt at this so I dont know how it will go. Basically people who want to participate will run their city, vote on issues affecting the country, and other tidbits here and there. I guess you could say that I would be the "Dungeonmaster" in a way. Anyways, were using the ViSa Modpack because it seems to be more flavorful than the vanilla game. Ive made it through the modpack with no CTD's or anything although some people have reported memory errors when the save game files get very large...to be honest I dont know if we'll get that far regardless Im playing the game on a very good computer with a lot of RAM and memory, and I can always lower graphic selections since our game really isnt graphic intensive but more of a RPG story. So sign up and we'll see where it goes, Ill try to tell it like a story too, in an attempt to add some flavor. Maybe this'll be good, also post on here your ideas, suggestions, complaints, how often we should push forward, etc.

You will NOT need to own the game to play, as a matter of fact, owning it will only help in your knowledge of how to play but wont effect the Dynasty at all.

In reading some of the other Dem. tries, many of them bogged down in political stuff, we wont have poltical parties per se, as Governors will serve as the Congress, which will have somewhat more power than the President (me). Governors would also hold the higher offices of Sec. and such, so as Governor even if they lost the higher seat they keep their governorship. I really dont want anyone losing a governor election per se and losing their opportunity to participate.


Huge map
Fractal map
12 Civs
All victory types
Game speed Epic
diff = Noble
AI personalities will be randomized



Im very open to suggestions, rules we should put in place, ideas, etc. So go ahead with them too, Ill likely start a new thread where the story will be...or something, maybe one of the reserved posts will be story.
While there arent any deadlines or time limits built in, im on FOFC pretty much all the time and work near my hosue so we can move this along at a fairly nice clip simply by paying attention when we can and giving forewarning if someone is going to be away for awhile. Im usually asleep from 1100pm est to 700am est.

[Flasch186]

Officials - Sign up in thread

Governors & Congress (1 vote each):

MrSimperless
Coffee Warlord (Gov. of Glasgow)
gi (Gov. of Stirling)
WVUFan
ntndeacon (Gov. of Perth)
Marathoner (Gov. of Dunfermline)
Passacaglia (Gov. of St. Andrews)
Frogman (Gov. of Edinburgh)
Illinifan999 (Gov. of Chernihiv)
cubboyroy1826 (Gov. of Zhitomir)
**even without an assigned city a governor will still have a vote on many issues.



Higher Offices (1 additional vote if it regards their dept.)

The Minister of State ntndeacon
(a) The Minister of State is responsible for all diplomatic contact with other civilizations, including treaties, trades, gifts and tribute. The decision to go to war has to be evaluated by the Governors through a Resolution
(b) The Minister of State is responsible for choosing state religion and how to use great people.

The Minister of Finances Gi
(a) The Minister of Finances is responsible for the treasury and tax sliders. Decisions directly affecting the treasury such as gold rushing, spy actions and diplomatic gifts or tribute should have the Minister of Finance's approval.
(b) The Minister of Finances is responsible for all research at the behest of the Governor's votes.

The Minister of the Defense Coffee Warlord
(a) The Minister of Defense is responsible for all military units and their orders, for exploration, war strategy and espionage.
(b) Any action which would result in a declaration of war has to be evaluated by the Governors through a Resolution


Civics-----------
Government:
1. Despotism
2. Hereditary Rule - +1 per military unit in city; +25% productivity & +25% gold in capital city
3. Representation - +10% war ; +3 technology specialists; +3 in 6 largest cities
4. Universal Sufferage - +25% war ; +1 productivity from towns; can spend $ to finish production
5. Police state - new military units +1xp; 25% military productivity; +2 free units; -50% war ; +25% city guard chance; no technology leak
6. Seperate Powers - +10% food production; +10% productivity; +10% $ in all cities

Legal:
1. Barbarism
2. Vassalage - new units receive +2xp; +8 free units
3. Bureaucracy - +50% productivity & +50% $ in capital; 2 free statesman in capital
4. Manifest Destiny - no maintenance costs from the number of cities
5. Nationhood - Can draft 4 units/turn; +25% city guard chance; +2 from barracks; +2 from drydock
6. Free Speech - +5% Technology production & +75% cultural growth in all cities; +2 $ from towns

Labor:
1. Tribalism
2. Slavery - +1 Food production from fishing boats, plantation, pasture, winery; +1 productivity from whaling boats, quarry, camp, well, offshore platform; Can sacrifice the population to finish production (w/ a penalty)
3. Serfdom - Workers build improvements 50% faster
4. Caste System - unlimited Artist, Scientist, Merchant
5. Emancipation - +100% growth for cottage, hamlet, village, explored temple, holiday resort & National Park
6. Bid for Contract - +25% prodcivity in Capital & 25% $ from trade routes

Economy:
1. Decentralization
2. Mercantilism - +1 free specialist/city; no foreign trade routes; no technology leaks
3. Free Market - +1 trade routes/city
4. State Property - no maintenance costs for distance from capital; +1 food from workshop & watermill
5. Industrialization - +2 unhealthiness in all cities; +25% productivity in all cities; +1 from factory
6. Environmentalism - +6 health in all cities; +1 from recycling center; +1 from airport; +1 from factory; +1 from coal plant; +1 from nuclear plant; +1 from jungle & forest

Religion:
1. Paganism
2. Organized Religion - Cities can build missionaries w/o a monestary; unlimited priests; cities w/ state religion build building 25% faster
3. Theocracy - Cities w/ state religion train units 10% faster; +2xp w/ state religion; no spread of non-state religion
4. Pacifism - +10% great people birth rate; +100% great people birth rate in cities w/ state religion; +1 $ cost per military unit
5. Free Religion - no state religion; +1 per non-state religion in a city; +10% technology research in all cities
6. Secularism - no state religion; +1 per non-state religion in a city; +25% technology research in all cities; +1 from theatre & jail; +2 from courthouse

Education:
1. Ignorance
****2. Heritage - unlimited artist; +25% cultural development in all cities
3. Apprenticeship - unlimited engineers; +25% great people birth rate
4. Army Training - new units get +2xp; military units are produced through food production
5. Private Schools - +1 free specialist per city
6. Public Schools - +10% technology research in all cities

Healthcare:
1. Shamanism
****2. Herbalism - +2 health in all cities; cities w/ state religion train units 25% faster
3. Private Health care - +4 health in all cities
4. Regulated Health care - +1 health in all cities; unlimited merchant
5. Government funded Health care - +2 health in all cities; penalty for all civs w/o Gov't. funded health care
6. Subsidized Health care - +1 health in all cities; no unhealthiness cause by buildings; +1 food from towns


Army Promotions

star = Combat I: +10% strength
dbl. stars = Combat II: +10% strength
trees = Woodsman I: +20% Jungle Defence & +20% Forest Defence
trees 2 stars = Woodsman II: +30% Jungle defence & +30% Forest Defence PLUS dbl. movement in Jungle & Forest
trees 3 stars = Woodsman III: +40% Jungle defence & +40% Forest defence
hills = Guerilla I: +20% hills defense
arrows = Cover I: +25% vs. Archery units
fist = Shock I: +25% vs. melee units
red cross = Medic I: heals units in same tile extra 10%/turn
knives = City Raider I: +20% city attack
sword and stick = Attack I: +15% strength BUT -15% Defence to - grassland/plains/desert/tundra/ice/coast/ocean
badge = Defence I: +15 Defence to - grassland/plains/desert/tundra/ice/coast/ocean
triangle = City Garrison: +20% city Defense
badge w/ arrows above = Drill I: 1 extra first strike chance
horse = Formation I: +25% vs. mounted units
Plus w/ LR arrows = Flanking I: +10% Withdrawal chance

More to come

[Flasch186]

City screens

Our first view of the land as we have decided to root and give up a nomadic existence.



Mrsimperless is the Governor of Edinburgh



Coffeewarlord is the Governor of Glasgow



Gi is the Governor of Stirling



NTNdeacon is the governor of Perth



Marathoner is the governor of Dunfermline



Passacaglia is the Governor of St. Andrews

[Flasch186]

Tech Tree

[Flasch186]

The House


Governors also hold the positions listed below:

Higher Offices (1 additional vote if it regards their dept.)

The Minister of State - ntndeacon
(a) The Minister of State is responsible for all diplomatic contact with other civilizations, including treaties, trades, gifts and tribute. The decision to go to war has to be evaluated by the Governors through a Resolution
(b) The Minister of State is responsible for choosing state religion and how to use great people.

The Minister of Finances - Gi
(a) The Minister of Finances is responsible for the treasury and tax sliders. Decisions directly affecting the treasury such as gold rushing, spy actions and diplomatic gifts or tribute should have the Minister of Finance's approval.
(b) The Minister of Finances is responsible for all research at the behest of the Governor's votes.

The Minister of the Defense - Coffee Warlord
(a) The Minister of Defense is responsible for all military units and their orders, for exploration, war strategy and espionage.
(b) Any action which would result in a declaration of war has to be evaluated by the Governors through a Resolution

[Flasch186]

We have discovered:




What shall we begin researching next, Gi?

Science

available

(19) Theology: ENABLES Theocracy, BUILD Sistine Chapel, Crusade, Christianity
(25) Machinery: BUILD Windmill & Watermill, Leonardo's Workshop REVEALS Cotton
(14) Compass: BUILD Harbor, Magellan's Voyage
(8) Improved Farming: REVEALS Olives, salt, Potatoes BUILD Aqueduct
(6) Calendar: Centers World Map, BUILD Plantation
(11) Literature: BUILD Heroic Epic, National Epic, the Great Library
(11) Drama: ADJUST culture Rate, BUILD Theatre, Globe Theatre
(13) Currency: +1 Trades route per city, ENABLES Gold trading via diplomacy, BUILD Mercat Cross, Grocer, Wealth
(13) Construction: ENABLES Bridge Building, BUILD Colloseum, Brewery, Tavern

[mrsimperless]

If you think I'll be able to participate without actually running the game then I'm in. Were you able to find any rules / by-laws from other democracy dynasties, or are you planning on this being more of a democratic dictatorship?

[Flasch186]

well ive searched a bit but I just had a customer walk in, they just left, so now I can really look. I havnt fleshed it out much, yet.

my initial thought would be to have it be me being the President but being controlled by the governors. So a Governor would have complete control of their city, production, and workers (maybe a governor could 'borrow' a worker from a nearby city for a future favor or trade?) unless the Congress declared war and then "pushed" cities to create certain units, etc. Then as President, maybe it'd be better to call it speaker of the house, I'd choose city locations and then someone can be assigned or elected governor, perhaps we have some elections at some point. I dunno, thinking out loud.

[mrsimperless]

So a governor of a city is a seperate role than say, secretary of defense? Would the secretary have to ask governors for certain military units and the governors would then have to agree to "help" that particular secretary?

Sorry, I know I brought the whole idea up and I'm not helping out too much. I'll see what I can research on how some of the smaller games are being managed.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by mrsimperless

So a governor of a city is a seperate role than say, secretary of defense? Would the secretary have to ask governors for certain military units and the governors would then have to agree to "help" that particular secretary?

Sorry, I know I brought the whole idea up and I'm not helping out too much. I'll see what I can research on how some of the smaller games are being managed.

exactly!! Thats right, so if the Governor if Rome is also the Sec. of Defense and we're at war, he would go to the Congress of Governors and present a "plan" per se, and then the governors of the cities would sign on to the plan, even maybe as part of a declaration of war....something along those lines.

[WVUFAN]

I'd love to be in if you'll have me. I love Civ 4.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

I'd love to be in if you'll have me. I love Civ 4.

youre in, I can separate Political stuff from other stuff

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

youre in, I can separate Political stuff from other stuff

Excellent. There's a bunch of people who don't ... just wanted to be sure.

I appreciate it.

[Coffee Warlord]

Hoooo yeah. The leader of the Technology For Better Ways To Kill Party is coming to ya.

Put me in, Mister Prez!

[Flasch186]

waiting for some more signups before we get rolling. Obviously until we have more cities it'll start with only a few participants so we can get started.

[gi]

I'll sign up for any position.

[Flasch186]

Governors please sign up for one of the higher offices, if 2 people want the same higher office Ill flip a coin to decide it. We will have the possibility for elections that could change seats up, especially if more people register as we get moving. Ill be moving us forward a turn this evening where Mrsimperless will have many initial decisions to make regarding the Capital & its production and we'll have to make some decisions regarding initial technology research directions to send out our first scout/troop.

[Coffee Warlord]

Defense, State, Finance, desired in that order.

[WVUFAN]

State, Defense, Finance in that order

[Flasch186]

MrSimperless, the Governor of our first hometown and the harbinger of our civilization please direct us as to where we should settle. From looking at the land you can tell me to move someone L1, LU1, U1, RU1, R1, RD1 (or directional W, NW, N, NE, etc.)....and so on. For reference our clan is closest to the river (east) while our scout is a few miles away to the West and can see what seems to be a huge mass of water.

keep in mind, using this mod, many of the things you'd see on the map in a Vanilla game, like Cows, horses, grapes, etc. dont show up until we figure out what those damn things actually are and how to control them.

Once you pick our land Ill let everyone know what our elders think we should start researching and we can decide in the Congress of Governors.

City names will remain default names, for cultural and immersion sake.

Coffee Warlord is in control of the Scout you see there so please direct accordingly. There will be some units (city guards, etc.) that will fall under the ocntrol of the Governor unless during wartime and via vote.

[mrsimperless]

Alright, llet's get this thing started!

First thing - I'm not familiar at all with this mod. Is there anything we should know about it other than what you've said as far as not being able to see the resources yet?

As far as our settler goes, it looks like somewhere near the grasslands to the north is going to be our ideal starting spot, but we can't see everything up there yet. I definitely think that coffee should decide what to do with the scout first (as far as grabbing the huts or perhaps scouting out some other areas first) before I decide what to do with the settler. I'm always hesitant to move settlers around unprotected, but I guess this early in the game we should be fairly safe. I definitely want to move onto a hill so that we can see more of the terrain.

Question: It's obvious to me that the square to the NW of the settler is hills, but what about the forested spot to his NE? Does that contain hills as well?

Does anyone else have any other suggestions or want to advise anything?

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by mrsimperless

Alright, llet's get this thing started!

First thing - I'm not familiar at all with this mod. Is there anything we should know about it other than what you've said as far as not being able to see the resources yet?

As far as our settler goes, it looks like somewhere near the grasslands to the north is going to be our ideal starting spot, but we can't see everything up there yet. I definitely think that coffee should decide what to do with the scout first (as far as grabbing the huts or perhaps scouting out some other areas first) before I decide what to do with the settler. I'm always hesitant to move settlers around unprotected, but I guess this early in the game we should be fairly safe. I definitely want to move onto a hill so that we can see more of the terrain.

Question: It's obvious to me that the square to the NW of the settler is hills, but what about the forested spot to his NE? Does that contain hills as well?

Does anyone else have any other suggestions or want to advise anything?

there are a lot of neat surprises in this mod, but if you feel like reading the spoilers go here....plus it might help some decisions:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=188624

CW will move our scout first before MRsimperless decides if/where to move our clan.

as for the NE we dont see any hills up there but there are some to the SE, sir.

[Flasch186]

FYI

While there arent any deadlines or time limits built in, im on FOFC pretty much all the time and work near my hosue so we can move this along at a fairly nice clip simply by paying attention when we can and giving forewarning if someone is going to be away for awhile. Im usually asleep from 1100pm est to 700am est.

[Coffee Warlord]

The Minister of Defense orders our scout to claim that little village, and then head east, and explore that river line northward. Villages are of course, key. If you find one, explore it ASAP.

[mrsimperless]

I'm also on the computer and FOFC all day and am awake about the same hours.

However, I work in Thailand a lot too and when I do that I'm 12 hours ahead of EDT here. But I'm still on the computer the entire day and leave it on and check email periodically throughout the night, so it shouldn't be an issue. Unless of course it's Friday night and I'm out at the bars. =)

I'm in the states right now, but I fly back to Bangkok Monday morning, so I'll be out of commision flying for about 30 hours or so starting then.

[Coffee Warlord]

By the by, I'm usually home by about 5:30 CST, and aside from days (like tonight) when I'm with the woman, I can check the boards.

[mrsimperless]

Alright, let's move our settler to the SE near the fresh water and with a better vantage point of the surrounding area.

[Flasch186]

Mrsimperless, it seems our scout sent back a map (pictured above) from the village and, while I know when you ended the meeting last night you said we would head SE, in the morning, towards the hills but perhaps this map that we have, if it is to be trusted, might change your mind sir. Please let me know what to tell the people.

[mrsimperless]

Thanks for the update. You are correct in that this new information changes my decision. The lands to the east of the hills to our SE are uninhabitable and not a place where we should found our first city. Let's head to the hilltop at our NW.

[Flasch186]

going to the hill was a good idea, sir, as we can see (pictured above) some viny thing to the west that the tribe we met earlier called incense. To the northeast we can see something that is called grapes. Finally most importantly there is another village to the northeast. CW has commanded our scout to visit them but it should take them a few days to get there. In talking to some of the people, sir, they have quietly stated that they think being closer to the fresh water vs. the desert to the west is key but they'll listen to your demands.

the people suggest moving one spot East and then plant seeds.

[gi]

Advisor gi: Unless this mod changes anything, it is generally better to setup the first city ASAP, and be more selective with the second city. But...as you command...

[mrsimperless]

Alright, let's make at the most 1 or two more moves with the settler and found our first city.

Guys, I don't want to screw up our first starting spot so please give suggestions from the map above. These look to be the most likely candidates:

1. 1 spot to the NE
2. 1 spot to the E
3. 2 spots to the E (more unknowns on the other side of the river; looks like it could be desert)
4. Across the river a bit to the N of us (will take longer to get there and more potential unknowns)

What do you think?

[Flasch186]

I'd say 1 move E and then plant root. Both getting there and setting up our camp should only take one day total.

[mrsimperless]

That was my favorite option as well. I'm not sure we'll be directly adjacent to fresh water there, but it still looks like it may be the best spot that we can currently see. If you're in agreement the let's do it.

[Flasch186]

we'll begin moving sir.....

[Flasch186]

We have planted root next to a river sir, the river should be named by you. Please tell us what we should start developing. Once you do this, we will turn to GI for leadership as to what science we should pursue. This will also be effected by Governor's votes, GI holds 2 votes.

Edinburgh's city screen has been added above and will show more specific things to Edinburgh as we move forward.

[mrsimperless]

Our people need protection from wild animals and savages as well as additional scouting capabilities. Let us produce a warrior who can fill both of these needs.

[gi]

Unless the mod changes anything (I'll read the changes soon), religion is very important. I believe sacrifices have to be made and our great civilization should pursue Polytheism.

[gi]

Originally Posted by mrsimperless

Our people need protection from wild animals and savages as well as additional scouting capabilities. Let us produce a warrior who can fill both of these needs.

mrsimperless speakith the truth.

[Coffee Warlord]

Give me more soldiers, noble leader, so that they may sheathe their swords in the beating hearts of our enemies!

In the meantime, post village exploration, just keep following that river northward for a few turns. I dare say our second city location could be directly north.

[gi]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Give me more soldiers, noble leader, so that they may sheathe their swords in the beating hearts of our enemies!

I miss that bald guy....

[Flasch186]

Mrsimperless

we've begun training some of the stronger Teenage men to be soldiers, perhaps one of them will graduate enough to where we feel confident to send him out into the wild.

Gi & Governors - What do you think we should pursue?

(3) Fishing: BUILD Fishing boats, work boat REVELS clam, crab, fish
(5) Meditation: BUILD monastery, buddhism
(30) Theology: ENABLES Theocrcy BUILD Sistine Chapel, Crusades FOUND Christianity
(13) Mathematics: +50% work from chopping wood, BUILD fort, Hanging Gradens, Flavian Amphitheater
(14) Alphabet: BUILD Plato's Academy, Put $ to research
(14) Horseback Riding: BUILD stable
(40) Machinery: BUILD Windmill & Watermill, Leonardo's Workshop REVEALS Cotton
(13) Improved Farming: REVEALS Olives, salt, potatos BUILD Aqueduct

[mrsimperless]

If Gi thinks we should go for polytheism I will go along with that. The only other one I would suggest would be maybe farming and we won't have a worker ready for a while yet anyway.

[gi]

I like Poly here because we are up against the AI which always seems to take Meditiation. By going for Poly we are more likely to get a religion, increase our influence, and increase our people's happiness.

[Flasch186]

The elders will go along with that, Polytheism it is. We will push forward a bit and Ill update when something happens.

[Flasch186]

The village our scout met to the NE were a greedy bunch of bastards but gave us 28 coins. We're not quite sure what they are made out of yet but they're shiny and I like 'em.

[Flasch186]

Another village to the west gave us 22 of the coins, and it seems that Edinburgh's influence has grown a bit further out from the city proper.

[Flasch186]

Holy smokes, we just met the Ukraine...WVUFan will be incharge of communicating with them in the future. For the time being we took the peaceful approach, although the other line was most certainly tempting

[Flasch186]

We have a problem sir, Our warrior is almost ready we think, at least the elders seem to think that one of them stands out but Ive received word that our scout is camped out on the east side of the Edinburgh River while a pack of Wild Lions rests on the other. The scouts dont think that they'll be able to pick and leave quick enough to avoid a confrontation but they're hoping the Lions will leave them alone...however they look hungry (see pic above)

[Coffee Warlord]

I believe it is high time for tactical movement towards to the east. Get into the forest, and explore eastward. If the lions attack, I'd prefer they do it in forested area, where we have a better chance to fight.