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Old 01-16-2018, 03:56 PM   #251
Vince, Pt. II
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Chief, #10 has me laughing out loud. Holy crap I can just see that.
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Old 01-16-2018, 04:14 PM   #252
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Chief, #10 has me laughing out loud. Holy crap I can just see that.

It's truly sublime. Has me giggling at the visual too.

And because Capela is Swiss, it has gotten some "the Swiss finally pick a side" chatter.
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Old 01-16-2018, 05:27 PM   #253
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Shaq near having an aneurysm laughing so hard at the police being called was hilarious to watch. Find a clip of it if you can.
https://streamable.com/s/s9uk0/qhrma

And fwiw if there's an actual fight I'm taking the side with Patrick Beverly & Montrezl Harrell on it
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Old 01-16-2018, 10:29 PM   #254
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As hilarious as the fight was, I am left hoping this doesn't end up being the catalyst that pushes the Clippers into a first-round playoff exit followed by re-signing Lou Williams to a big deal that's rationalized with something along the lines of "well if Beverly and Gallinari were healthy we could have given the Warriors a run for their money!"
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Old 01-19-2018, 03:17 PM   #255
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I am looking forward to seeing what the market is for Kemba Walker.
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Old 01-22-2018, 04:32 PM   #256
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Jason Kidd- OUT
Joe Prunty- IN
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Old 01-22-2018, 04:49 PM   #257
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Jason Kidd- OUT
Joe Prunty- IN

Joe Prunty is a cover name so Rand Paul can do basketball as a side gig.

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Old 01-22-2018, 05:00 PM   #258
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I honestly can't believe Kidd has been coaching for five years already. Time flies. He peaked as a coach his first year with a fine team, since then matchups/innovation caught up with and surpassed him. There's no reason that team should be so poor on the defensive end.
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Old 01-22-2018, 05:19 PM   #259
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Said before the season if Milwaukee traded Jabari Parker for a good veteran or two they'd be situated as the 2nd best team in the East. The talent's there, and with Giannis able to play 45+ minutes a night in the playoffs and someone besides Jason Kidd coaching, the Bucks are going to be a tough first-round matchup for anyone.
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Old 01-22-2018, 06:00 PM   #260
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I honestly can't believe Kidd has been coaching for five years already. Time flies. He peaked as a coach his first year with a fine team, since then matchups/innovation caught up with and surpassed him. There's no reason that team should be so poor on the defensive end.
Teams adjusted to that ultra-aggressive trapping scheme after his first year in Milwaukee and he stubbornly refused to dial it back for whatever reason.

idk where they go with Jabari Parker. I think they're still not there this year anyways (and not sure what veteran you'd get for him right now unless DeAndre Jordan is still on the market and you think he's the missing piece - I think a Kevin Love for Jabari swap could be interesting once LeBron leaves, but Cleveland wouldn't do that now) so it's not a bad thing to see if he and Giannis have some chemistry when healthy and Parker can start putting up better +/- stats instead of just good counting ones. Don't need to go all-in when Giannis just turned 23, and if you're going the other way and trading for draft picks Parker's value will only go up if he comes back and plays well and you can target players better at the draft.

Not sure where (or if) Kemba goes to. I'd love to see him in San Antonio, and Philly's the only other place that jumps off the page at me as a good fit for his skillset (among playoff teams). Especially since Charlotte seems desperate to pair him with bad contracts, Philly has the space, and the Hornets will probably take less than his real value if they can get off bad money.
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:47 PM   #261
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What would Parker's trade value be right now, anyway? I would think other teams would have better packages on offer to get DeAndre. I think the Bucks would need to package him with another enticing piece to land anything significant.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:11 PM   #262
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idk where they go with Jabari Parker. I think they're still not there this year anyways (and not sure what veteran you'd get for him right now unless DeAndre Jordan is still on the market and you think he's the missing piece - I think a Kevin Love for Jabari swap could be interesting once LeBron leaves, but Cleveland wouldn't do that now) so it's not a bad thing to see if he and Giannis have some chemistry when healthy and Parker can start putting up better +/- stats instead of just good counting ones. Don't need to go all-in when Giannis just turned 23, and if you're going the other way and trading for draft picks Parker's value will only go up if he comes back and plays well and you can target players better at the draft.

Parker is going to get paid more next season, so holding onto him means you think he's going to be the missing piece because the Bucks have enough other bad contracts that they can't drastically change the roster for the next couple years. At that point it doesn't matter how old Giannis is because if he goes the first 7-8 years of his career without getting past the first round he's liable to leave.

At the point when Parker got hurt last season the Bucks had a +10 net rating when Giannis played without Parker and -2 when both of them played together. Not sure what the path to Parker having a much better plus-minus impact would be when even two knee surgeries ago he didn't look like a decent defensive player in the making and the one thing he's good at takes the ball away from Giannis.

I think more players would be available if the Bucks actually put Parker on the table but even if it were "just" DeAndre I'd consider it a win for the Bucks if they traded a package of like Parker and Henson for him. Worst case, it doesn't work out and the Bucks would have some cap space this offseason or next to find someone to team up with Giannis rather than potentially having to pay Parker $15+ million a year for the next 4-5 years.

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What would Parker's trade value be right now, anyway? I would think other teams would have better packages on offer to get DeAndre. I think the Bucks would need to package him with another enticing piece to land anything significant.

DeAndre can opt out this summer, so not really. If there were better offers for him there's a good chance he'd be gone. Either way Milwaukee should also be looking to trade Brogdon while his Rookie of the Year award still has some shine to it.

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Old 01-22-2018, 09:08 PM   #263
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What would Parker's trade value be right now, anyway? I would think other teams would have better packages on offer to get DeAndre. I think the Bucks would need to package him with another enticing piece to land anything significant.
I do think he is a solid NBA player (unless he lost a lot of athleticism with this surgery), but I just don't see him having the trade value he should until he comes back and plays to remind people how good he is on offense. Especially if the 3-pt shooting from last year is real, he really is a very efficient guy who can be an offensive focal point and teams will pay for that. Bad on D, sure, but this isn't Jahlil Okafor (and a less aggressive defensive scheme should help hide him more.)

But the flip side is who's available? Kemba doesn't fit, I mention DeAndre because he was reportedly on the block, but with Lou Williams catching fire & the Clippers in the 8th seed I don't know if they still want to trade them. Memphis doesn't appear interested in trading Marc Gasol even though they probably should. Is Rodney Hood an upgrade? You want the Sacramento or Orlando veterans? I still like Julius Randle & have no clue what the Lakers are doing, so maybe you could get them to do Randle + Larry Nance Jr., but then again maybe they wouldn't want to do that because Parker's cap hold would work against their plan to sign 2 big name free agents. Would another non-playoff team have a player you want? Maybe Brooklyn would do it for RHJ + something, but none of these moves seem like they move the needle to the point Milwaukee has a good shot at making even the NBA Finals. And Giannis has 3 more years left and seems to like Milwaukee, so I wouldn't start mortgaging the future and pushing chips in out of some fear that future Giannis might not re-sign like New Orleans has done to saddle Anthony Davis with possibly the weakest bench in the NBA. Maybe Chicago would be interested in bringing Parker home & you could trade like Parker + Teletovic for Mirotic + Jerian Grant with the Bulls excess PG's, but I'm not sure Mirotic's 3-pt shooting this year is real, or that Parker might not have continued improving his own 3-pt shooting during his time off - he is still only 22.

Even if you don't think he's a great fit next to Giannis and you end up trading him this offseason it still seems like him developing is the best chance you have of getting even a borderline All-Star to put next to Giannis & Bledsoe, and I'd hope that firing Kidd improves the defense, giving Parker some minutes from guys like Teletovic/Snell/Thon Maker/DeAndre Liggins improves the offense, and you see what you have, especially with the ability to play Giannis that much more when the playoffs roll around.
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:13 PM   #264
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Seems like the Cavs already hate playing with Isaiah Thomas. This team is such a clusterfuck. I don't know what the hell we do in order to get our shit together but it just may be impossible at this point. Kemba and LeBron might be a good combo but I don't really want to give the Brooklyn pick away for him. I'll gladly trade a midget with a bad hip and a shity personality and disposition for him though
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Old 01-23-2018, 01:39 PM   #265
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Seems like the Cavs already hate playing with Isaiah Thomas. This team is such a clusterfuck. I don't know what the hell we do in order to get our shit together but it just may be impossible at this point. Kemba and LeBron might be a good combo but I don't really want to give the Brooklyn pick away for him. I'll gladly trade a midget with a bad hip and a shity personality and disposition for him though
I thought Kevin Love was being blamed this time, and Ty Lue is 50/50 to be fired the next couple weeks? IT doesn't have his same burst right now, and at least some of that will come back, plus the defense completely sucked without him anyways. Idk where the shitty personality crack comes from, he's a pretty happy and well liked guy around the league - I guess pointing out that never practicing will take him longer to get in game shape, and that the Celtics tried harder and trusted each other more on defense is a bad thing to say, even if it's all clearly true?

Shumpert will also come back, eventually he/JR/IT will hit more shots, the wings including LeBron will start trying at least a little bit on defense, and it's still a team that won 18 of 19 a month ago. I don't think they're trading the Brooklyn pick, but we'll see who they trade for or sign off the buyout market... either way, I don't think another scorer who is a below average defender is the missing piece.
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Old 01-23-2018, 02:08 PM   #266
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That has to be a miserable place to play basketball right now with some of the personalities on that team.
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Old 01-23-2018, 04:08 PM   #267
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I would like this trade for all three teams.

Clippers get: Parker, Brogdon, Henson, Trevor Booker (waived), 2018 Sixers first round pick
Clippers trade: Jordan, Lou Williams, Sam Dekker, Brice Johnson

I'm not even a big fan of Parker and Brogdon, but this is the best year in a long time to tank. The Clippers have a couple G league players who play more than Johnson and trading him opens a roster spot to sign one of them to a team-friendly deal. A lineup of Beverly-Brogdon-Gallinari-Griffin-lottery pick big man with Rivers and Parker off the bench is reasonably competitive next year (health permitting), or they could totally blow it up and trade Griffin as well.

Bucks get: Jordan, Dekker, Furkan Korkmaz
Bucks trade: Parker, Brogdon, Henson, Rashad Vaughn (or equivalent salary filler to Sixers)

Upgrade from Henson and his bad contract to DJ while holding onto Middleton and draft picks. Dekker and Korkmaz are a couple of cheap fliers.

Sixers get: Lou Williams, Brice Johnson, Vaughn/filler
Sixers trade: 2018 first round pick, Trevor Booker, Furkan Korkmaz

Sixers rent Williams for a first rounder is what this one boils down to. Might be a bit of a steep price for a seeming non-contender to pay but the Sixers would look a lot better than their regular season record indicates in the playoffs since Embiid and the rest of the starters would be able to play more and minimize the amount of time negative players like Jerryd Bayless, Luwawu-Cabarot, and Justin Anderson are in the game.
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Old 01-24-2018, 03:55 PM   #268
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It's becoming more and more obvious that Luke Walton has no clue what he is doing and that Lavar was totally right about him.
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Old 01-24-2018, 04:17 PM   #269
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It's becoming more and more obvious that Luke Walton has no clue what he is doing and that Lavar was totally right about him.

Umm ... sarcasm?

(I'm guessing that must be it since they've won 7 of their last 10 or something)
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:26 PM   #270
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Yes, completely sarcastic.
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:27 PM   #271
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Yes, completely sarcastic.

K, I actually thought maybe I'd missed something but a quick scan of NBA news/headlines turned up nothing that would fit otherwise.
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:33 PM   #272
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Walton got a vote of confidence from Jeanie Buss today
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Old 01-26-2018, 02:25 PM   #273
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Westbrook confusion over being picked last vs the list being released alphabetically is somewhat amusing.
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Old 01-26-2018, 03:04 PM   #274
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Westbrook confusion over being picked last vs the list being released alphabetically is somewhat amusing.
It's hilarious to me that these guys are world class athletes and yet they are so hyper sensitive. I can't believe they wouldn't allow them to televise the draft. That would have been the ultimate must see TV for me.
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Old 01-26-2018, 03:16 PM   #275
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It's hilarious to me that these guys are world class athletes and yet they are so hyper sensitive. I can't believe they wouldn't allow them to televise the draft. That would have been the ultimate must see TV for me.

Not that there are any fragile egos in the league or anything.
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Old 01-26-2018, 03:31 PM   #276
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Make it all beef.

Rotate having each captain pick from a pair of players matched by PER or WS. Maximize the disrespect!
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Old 01-26-2018, 08:23 PM   #277
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It's hilarious to me that these guys are world class athletes and yet they are so hyper sensitive. I can't believe they wouldn't allow them to televise the draft. That would have been the ultimate must see TV for me.

I feel like the general public is putting its own hyper sensitivity on the players than the players have for themselves when it came to this draft. Next year when it is televised, it won't be nearly as interesting as we think it should be.
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Old 01-26-2018, 08:41 PM   #278
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I feel like the general public is putting its own hyper sensitivity on the players than the players have for themselves when it came to this draft. Next year when it is televised, it won't be nearly as interesting as we think it should be.
Unless they do what the NHL did and put everyone in the same room with cameras on them so we can see sad Kevin Love get picked last. Though maybe he's so used to it from the Cavs locker room by now he wouldn't care.
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Old 01-26-2018, 09:54 PM   #279
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They just need to give someone some money for charity and a car for being picked last like the NHL did and problem solved.
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Old 01-27-2018, 01:33 AM   #280
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"League sources" telling ESPN the Demarcus Cousins suffered a full tear of his left achilles tendon & is done for the season.
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Old 01-27-2018, 02:26 AM   #281
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New Orleans has to punt now, right? He isn't re-signing there.
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Old 01-27-2018, 02:43 AM   #282
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New Orleans has to punt now, right? He isn't re-signing there.

Since he was traded, his next contract can still be a very large one if he stays with New Orleans, no? Has Boogie been an all-NBA player at least once the past three seasons? Too lazy to look it up but wouldn't shock me.

If so, that is a LOT of money to leave on the table to leave New Orleans.
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Old 01-27-2018, 04:28 AM   #283
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Since he was traded, his next contract can still be a very large one if he stays with New Orleans, no? Has Boogie been an all-NBA player at least once the past three seasons? Too lazy to look it up but wouldn't shock me.

If so, that is a LOT of money to leave on the table to leave New Orleans.
Wasn't eligible for the designated player extension with New Orleans since he was traded after his rookie deal, but they're the only ones who can offer him a 5 year deal (and reportedly were ready to offer him the 5/$175m-ish max).

I don't think it's a guarantee by any means, but not sure why Vince thinks he isn't re-signing there or this makes it less likely. He seemed to like playing there, playing with Davis, and is from relatively nearby (yeah, Alabama is different culturally than New Orleans, but it's still southern and he isn't clamoring to play in a big city.) And more importantly, I think other teams will be hesitant to offer even a 4 year max to a 28y/o coming off an Achilles tear, while New Orleans is likely to say screw it, we still need to offer him the full max (a.k.a. how Jrue Holiday could basically name his price last offseason).

And don't get me wrong, I love Anthony Davis to Boston rumors as much as the next guy, but New Orleans would be crazy to trade him unless/until he's in the last year of his deal and he's saying he won't re-sign. (Right now he has 2.5 years left.) And I'm not sure anyone else on that roster has positive trade value... maybe E'Twaun Moore could get a 2nd round pick?

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Old 01-27-2018, 01:30 PM   #284
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Boogie hurt on a very Boogie play.
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Old 01-27-2018, 01:41 PM   #285
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Boogie hurt on a very Boogie play.

No way. Watching it live my first thought was "This is why you are not supposed to be making the hustle play."
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Old 01-27-2018, 04:40 PM   #286
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No way. Watching it live my first thought was "This is why you are not supposed to be making the hustle play."
Yeah, keeping an offensive rebound alive in a close game under a minute would seem to be a good thing. And it really does suck because he just landed funny, didn't even land on a foot or roll the ankle.

I still don't know if I'd want him on my team with the loafing back on D, but man he's awesome to watch from afar. The announcers were too busy fawning over Darius Miller hitting the 3 but that last assist he had was like a blind pass through 3 defenders while going the opposite direction, then he had that rip strip of Mbah a Moute iirc & the offensive rebound and 1 to kind of seal it. Unbelievable playmaker for a guy his size.

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Old 01-28-2018, 12:10 AM   #287
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Celtics/Warriors would be one hell of a finals. Brad Stevens has always made games difficult for the W’s since he took over.
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Old 01-28-2018, 02:27 PM   #288
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Celtics/Warriors would be one hell of a finals. Brad Stevens has always made games difficult for the Ws since he took over.
Weirdly enough Celtics match up much better vs the Warriors than the Cavs - having all those switchable wings neuters Golden State's biggest strength. (And nice to see them do it last night without Smart, who's usually a huge part of the D vs them.) When we play that way vs the Cavs we just get murdered on the glass by Tristan Thompson and even Kevin Love (or Enes Kanter when he was there), but the Warriors don't have that kind of player who can bully our wings or Horford if Draymond's out in the pick & roll.

Also, he might not be that good in the middle of games & still leads the league in incredibly athletic drives that end up in layup attempts that are nowhere close to going in, but our crunch time offense should strictly be Terry Rozier shooting turnaround 3's.
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Old 01-29-2018, 06:34 PM   #289
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The Clippers and Pistons have agreed on a deal to trade Blake Griffin for Tobias Harris, Avery Bradley, Boban Marjanovic, a first-round and a second-round draft pick, league sources tell ESPN. - Woj via Twitter

This looks like a major teardown move by the Clippers, which is cool with me. Blake Griffin's contract could be a pain in 3-4 years and it doesn't look like the Clippers will be winning anything significant before then. I like Harris and think he can continue to get better and be a borderline all-star, but his contract just has one more season on it so the main benefit for the Clippers is long-term salary relief and a couple draft picks.

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Old 01-29-2018, 06:42 PM   #290
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That is not the direction I expected the Clippers to go... does that mean they'll also try to trade LouWill & DJ and go full rebuild? I don't get it, figured Blake would be the piece they'd build around, and I thought they were queitly positioning themselves to make a play for LeBron this summer. I can't imagine Tobias Harris & Austin Rivers as the two biggest names left under contract will be that enticing.
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Old 01-29-2018, 07:00 PM   #291
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That is not the direction I expected the Clippers to go... does that mean they'll also try to trade LouWill & DJ and go full rebuild? I don't get it, figured Blake would be the piece they'd build around, and I thought they were queitly positioning themselves to make a play for LeBron this summer. I can't imagine Tobias Harris & Austin Rivers as the two biggest names left under contract will be that enticing.

If anything getting rid of Griffin's contract and having cap room to bring in players of LeBron's choosing would make it more likely he would go there, but I doubt it was explicitly for him and more just for cap room in general. Cap room and being able to be bottom-five rather than bottom-ten bad this season if the Clippers trade their other key players.
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Old 01-29-2018, 07:33 PM   #292
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The Clips fan in me is disappointed of course.

The realist in me isn't terribly unhappy, though, because, like nol, I determined a while ago it was unlikely this team was going anywhere. Just not enough help for Blake, who himself had a massive contract, is too injury proven and never quite showed up in the fourth quarter when he was needed.

I wish him the best, but I'm looking forward to seeing what this front office can do with assets to play with. They have done a great job identifying low valued talent in pickups like Jawun Evans, Ty Wallace, Sindarius Thornwell and CJ Williams, thinking outside of the box with Milos, and doing well in getting (at least) LouWill, Harrell and Beverly out of the CP3 trade.

Really, when you think about it, in the past eight months they have done an awful lot with not much wiggle room.

Also, FREE BOBAN!!
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Old 01-29-2018, 07:39 PM   #293
Atocep
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I get the Clippers here. I really don't understand what the hell the Pistons are doing.
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Old 01-29-2018, 08:06 PM   #294
nol
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I get the Clippers here. I really don't understand what the hell the Pistons are doing.

Hope they get in the playoffs and then will have a sizable advantage at both frontcourt positions once there. The Pistons are capped out regardless (the price for "rebuilding the right way" and getting the honor of being swept by the Cavs two years ago) and if they don't want to re-sign Harris/Bradley then it's probably a better bet to hope Griffin returns to form than to expect to find a bunch of free agent bargains in Detroit.

Last edited by nol : 01-30-2018 at 12:33 AM.
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Old 01-29-2018, 08:57 PM   #295
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If anything getting rid of Griffin's contract and having cap room to bring in players of LeBron's choosing would make it more likely he would go there, but I doubt it was explicitly for him and more just for cap room in general. Cap room and being able to be bottom-five rather than bottom-ten bad this season if the Clippers trade their other key players.
But they're specifically talking about rebuilding on the fly and trying not to bottom out this season by getting guys like Harris & Bradley. We'll see if they trade DJ/LouWill strictly for picks, or go after rotation players in return again. But it looks like they'll end up with two picks in the 12-16 range unless they get very lucky with their pick during the lottery, and unlike last year with it's crazy depth this draft appears to have a clear top 5 & fall off after 11-12 players. The Clippers already have 25 wins, and it looks like of the 9 sub-20 win teams only the Lakers (and Nets?) might try hard enough to pass them, even if they go like 5-28 and end up at 30 wins.

If LeBron is going to an LA team that has cap room he'll go to the Lakers, who are also doing anything they can to open up space, and have Kuzma/Ingram/Ball on rookie scale deals who are better trade assets than anything the Clippers have. If LeBron wanted to play with him having Blake as an established star in his prime would've been their trump card.

idk, I get the concerns about Griffin considering his injury history, and other teams have kind of pulled off the rebuild without bottoming out, but it just seems like he was a guy you should trade for a premium asset, not a bunch of B- or worse ones in Tobias Harris (1 more year before UFA), Bradley (UFA this summer who wants to get paid), and a Pistons pick that'll probably end up 13th-16th. Ironic that it's happening as the Clippers finally have some bench depth, bu it seems like they'll be sitting there in a year or two saying we really need to find a star.
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Old 01-29-2018, 10:27 PM   #296
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But they're specifically talking about rebuilding on the fly and trying not to bottom out this season by getting guys like Harris & Bradley.

That's what I'd be saying too if I were trying to get good value in exchange for Williams and Jordan. If they can't get a deal done for those two, then sure they can stay in the run for the 8-9 seed since the team has done alright without Griffin and it's not an enormous drop-off from him to Harris at this point.

The worst-case outcome for the Clippers would be for them to finish the season exactly where they currently are in the standings, and either way it'd be a solid trade just for getting picks and opening up more cap flexibility without majorly downgrading the team in the current year. The schedule was kind to the Clippers in January (six games against the Grizzlies, Hawks, and Kings plus wins over the Rockets and Warriors who had star players out due to injury/resting) and it would not have been surprising for them to have fallen back over the next few months regardless.

Quote:
We'll see if they trade DJ/LouWill strictly for picks, or go after rotation players in return again. But it looks like they'll end up with two picks in the 12-16 range unless they get very lucky with their pick during the lottery, and unlike last year with it's crazy depth this draft appears to have a clear top 5 & fall off after 11-12 players.


I don't want to talk too much about the upcoming draft, but by my count there are 7 players who would be a solid choice at #1 overall in a lot of years. Even if they 'only' got down to 8th-worst, that's about a tenfold increase at the chances of getting lucky and moving into the top 3. Conversely, the Pistons are just as close to picking 6th as they are to the playoffs at the moment, and with Blake's injury history and the possibility that he and Drummond may take some time to gel there's a higher chance it would end up 5th-8th than any later than 15th-16th.

The Clippers are extremely reliant on DJ and Williams (I mean, Williams is putting up Curry-like offensive numbers over the last month or so and the team is still just .500). It would not be a stretch to see them winning like 3 games the rest of the year without those two. Avery Bradley is just an expiring contract at this point who won't be helping a team win regular season games; he is more valuable to a team like the Cavs that desperately needs someone who can guard point guards.

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If LeBron is going to an LA team that has cap room he'll go to the Lakers, who are also doing anything they can to open up space, and have Kuzma/Ingram/Ball on rookie scale deals who are better trade assets than anything the Clippers have. If LeBron wanted to play with him having Blake as an established star in his prime would've been their trump card.

For the second and hopefully final time, the trade has nothing to do with LeBron; when I said more likely I meant along the lines of increasing it from a 0.1% chance to 0.2%. Even if the Clippers were seriously trying to acquire him, I can assure you that the prospect of playing with Blake Griffin, who is a worse fit next to LeBron than Kevin Love at this point and obviously didn't get along that well with LeBron's good buddy Chris Paul, would not be a draw. If the Lakers think trading Deng and a couple young players/future picks for Jordan will give them a better chance of signing LeBron, that's definitely alright by me.

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idk, I get the concerns about Griffin considering his injury history, and other teams have kind of pulled off the rebuild without bottoming out, but it just seems like he was a guy you should trade for a premium asset, not a bunch of B- or worse ones in Tobias Harris (1 more year before UFA), Bradley (UFA this summer who wants to get paid), and a Pistons pick that'll probably end up 13th-16th. Ironic that it's happening as the Clippers finally have some bench depth, bu it seems like they'll be sitting there in a year or two saying we really need to find a star.

IDK, he was not a particularly controversial omission as an All-Star this year, is probably having his worst season since his rookie year, and will be making $39 million in the 2021-22 season. It would be charitable to say he's on a B- contract when Paul George, Jimmy Butler, and DeMarcus Cousins have been traded in recent months in large part because their teams did not want to sign them to the kind of contract Griffin currently has. He's not the kind of addition who would appreciably improve a good team's chances of beating the Warriors (especially if that team had to give up a starter or two to make salaries match) and is good enough to keep a bad team from good lottery position. I had a hard time thinking of what team would have actually been able to trade for him without sending the Clippers a lot of bad salary in return.

Last edited by nol : 01-30-2018 at 12:49 AM.
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Old 01-30-2018, 12:54 AM   #297
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That's what I'd be saying too if I were trying to get good value in exchange for Williams and Jordan. If they can't get a deal done for those two, then sure they can stay in the run for the 8-9 seed since the team has done alright without Griffin and it's not an enormous drop-off from him to Harris at this point.

The worst-case outcome for the Clippers would be for them to finish the season exactly where they currently are in the standings, and either way it'd be a solid trade just for getting picks and opening up more cap flexibility without majorly downgrading the team in the current year. The schedule was kind to the Clippers in January (six games against the Grizzlies, Hawks, and Kings plus wins over the Rockets and Warriors who were resting star players) and it would not have been surprising for them to have fallen back over the next few months regardless.

I don't want to talk too much about the upcoming draft, but by my count there are 7 players who would be a solid choice at #1 overall in a lot of years. Even if they 'only' got down to 8th-worst, that's about a tenfold increase at the chances at getting lucky and moving into the top 3.

The Clippers are extremely reliant on DJ and Williams (I mean, Williams is putting up Curry-like offensive numbers over the last month or so and the team is still just .500). It would not be a stretch to see them winning like 3 games the rest of the year without those two. Avery Bradley is just an expiring contract at this point who won't be helping a team win regular season games; he is more valuable to a team like the Cavs that desperately needs someone who can guard point guards.
Either Tobias Harris is a big downgrade from Blake Griffin or he isn't. Avery Bradley is actually a solid fit next to Milos Teodosic & Lou if he stays. And the Clippers just went 3-2 with DJ out including the win over the Rockets. They already have 25 wins, and Danilo Gallinari/Austin Rivers coming back might hurt more than it helps, but I would still bet my life savings on them going better than 3-30 the rest of the season. Considering how many wins the Clippers have in hand, which of the Magic, Hawks, Bulls, Nets, Suns, Kings, Mavs, Grizzlies are getting above 30 wins and the Clippers eventual win total? So even if all the other teams - including the Lakers, Jazz, Hornets, who are all very flawed - pass them, you're still only at a 6% chance of getting into the top 3, and a 94% chance you're at #9/10/11. And I know both of us think that 8th/9th in the conference no man's land is a terrible place to be, but the Clippers pushing for solid rotation players in the Chris Paul and now Griffin deals, plus signing Gallinari last summer, would indicate they're actually committed to this "rebuild without bottoming out" plan. (Which is even weirder because they'll owe the Celtics their 1st in 2019 or 2020 if they make the playoffs.)

Quote:
For the second and hopefully final time, the trade has nothing to do with LeBron. Even if the Clippers were seriously trying to acquire him, I can assure you that the prospect of playing with Blake Griffin, who is a worse fit next to LeBron than Kevin Love at this point, in 2018 and beyond would not be a draw. If the Lakers want to open up cap space by trading Deng and a couple young players/future picks for Jordan that's definitely alright by me.
Marc Stein on Twitter: "The Clippers clearly believe they can make it onto LeBron James' free-agent short list come July and, according to league sources, will indeed move DeAndre Jordan and Lou Williams before the Feb. 8 trade deadline if they can find workable deals to help them in that quest" Marc Stein isn't my favorite NBA reporter, but it's not the Daily News, and Zach Lowe is saying the same thing.

People are even hinting that the Clippers might not actually trade DJ, LouWill & now I guess Bradley too. Which doesn't make any sense to me, but few of the Clippers moves since Doc took over have. It's not like the alternative of letting Griffin age into that contract was great either, but I just really disagree with the overall direction they seem to be heading.
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Old 01-30-2018, 02:37 AM   #298
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Either Tobias Harris is a big downgrade from Blake Griffin or he isn't.

No ambiguity in saying he wasn't a big downgrade. If they traded everyone else and left him the best player on the team they'd be bad, but you could say that for Griffin too (especially because with his injury history and contract it would’ve been a logical move to shut him down for the last few weeks of a non-playoff season). If they really want to make a run for the playoffs, Harris is less talented but a better fit next to Williams and Jordan due to his shooting, so once again - not a big downgrade from Griffin to him.

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Avery Bradley is actually a solid fit next to Milos Teodosic & Lou if he stays.

I get that he used to play for the Celtics but he's not good. His RPM is -2.98 (3rd worst of SGs who play more than 20 minutes a game) and for an alleged defensive specialist there's a pretty substantial track record of his teams defending better overall when he's not on the court. Signing both Bradley and Williams long-term would have the Clippers in the luxury tax for what would be a low-tier playoff team in the event a bunch of older players managed to stay healthy and avoid decline, which would obviously be a pretty dumb proposition.

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And the Clippers just went 3-2 with DJ out including the win over the Rockets. They already have 25 wins, and Danilo Gallinari/Austin Rivers coming back might hurt more than it helps, but I would still bet my life savings on them going better than 3-30 the rest of the season.

I hope you make that bet because from my perspective and most likely theirs, CLIPPERS GET SOMETHING OUT OF GRIFFIN SUPERMAX CONTRACT is the headline of the deal and wherever they end up in the standings is gravy. If you want to misconstrue my words as saying the Clippers will literally win 3 or fewer games the rest of the season, be my guest if it makes you feel smarter and happier about your lot in life when they win more than that.

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Considering how many wins the Clippers have in hand, which of the Magic, Hawks, Bulls, Nets, Suns, Kings, Mavs, Grizzlies are getting above 30 wins and the Clippers eventual win total? So even if all the other teams - including the Lakers, Jazz, Hornets, who are all very flawed - pass them, you're still only at a 6% chance of getting into the top 3, and a 94% chance you're at #9/10/11.

This is no different what I already said, which is that even 6% is a tenfold increase at getting into the top 3 compared to what the odds are as the best lottery team and that at the very least, it's a nice fringe benefit to trading Griffin when I would not have expected any takers for him.

Quote:
People are even hinting that the Clippers might not actually trade DJ, LouWill & now I guess Bradley too. Which doesn't make any sense to me, but few of the Clippers moves since Doc took over have. It's not like the alternative of letting Griffin age into that contract was great either, but I just really disagree with the overall direction they seem to be heading.

Once again, this is pretty credulous of you to assume. I don't know if you think the Clippers should be saying "Shit, DeAndre can be a free agent this summer and would have left us before if Blake hadn't locked him in a house, so we really need to get something for him ASAP because we want to start tanking" or what, but that wouldn't be too smart of them.

Last edited by nol : 01-30-2018 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 01-30-2018, 10:05 AM   #299
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So how much of this can be attributed to Jerry West? His front office career is starting to look as impressive as his playing career.
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Old 01-30-2018, 12:38 PM   #300
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So how much of this can be attributed to Jerry West? His front office career is starting to look as impressive as his playing career.

Probably doesn’t hurt. The idea of “shake things up on the expensive, past-its-prime team that’s lost in the first round the last two years and lost its best player” isn’t exactly groundbreaking, but people are definitely more likely to listen if it’s Jerry West on board.

If someone like Sam Hinkie had made the exact same move, all the talk would be about how nobody will want to play for/watch the Clippers for the next 5+ years because they have no loyalty, are trying to rob fans by putting an inferior product on the court, blah blah blah.

Last edited by nol : 01-30-2018 at 01:45 PM.
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