Spend eternity in Hell: Josh Powell

[cartman]

Not sure if anyone was following this case, but Josh Powell's wife disappeared a couple of years ago. His alibi was that he had taken his two young sons camping, and when he got home, she was gone. The alibi was a bit strange because he didn't leave until late at night, and the temperature was in the teens, not usual weather to take two pre-schoolers out for camping.

The case took some strange turns, such as his father confessing to having a relationship with his daughter-in-law, and a search of his computer had pictures of her, as well as kiddie porn. Since he was living with his father, his wife's parents got custody of the kids. The wife has never been found.

Well, yesterday, on what was supposed to be a supervised visit, Powell grabbed his kids and locked the social worker outside. The social worker smelled gas, and while they were on the phone with the authorities to report the incident, the house exploded. Powell and his two sons, aged 7 and 5 were killed. Heartbreakingly the autopsy today showed that the boys suffered axe chops to the head and neck, but the cause of death was smoke inhalation.

May the pain of the fires burn you for all time, Josh Powell.

[ColtCrazy]

Just wow. Yeah, I hope his suffering is horrid and eternal. Poor children.

[MacroGuru]

Being from Utah, I followed the case closely...trust me...I haven't said much on it in other forums and areas that others have thought...but my hatred burns for this man more than any other...

the fact his older son started opening up about the camping trip and how mommy went with them but rode in the trunk....just sets my blood boiling again.

[bhlloy]

I know burden of proof, courts are overworked, they are going to side with the parent etc...

But how the hell this POS was allowed to keep the kids with all the weird shit around him that was ongoing is absolutely unreal. And in the end they paid for it. Very sad.

[digamma]

My wife was physically ill last night when she read the story. There are really no words worthy describing this ____. To call him something would be an insult to anyone else called a similar name and the name itself.

[Commo_Soldier]

I live three blocks from where this happened and saw the scene within minutes after it happened. I'm still completely shocked at what transpired and heartbroken after seeing it on the news last night.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I know burden of proof, courts are overworked, they are going to side with the parent etc...

But how the hell this POS was allowed to keep the kids with all the weird shit around him that was ongoing is absolutely unreal. And in the end they paid for it. Very sad.

He wasn't allowed to keep the kids. They were given to the wife's parents. He still had very limited, supervised visitation. In fact, part of the reason it appears he did this was because he was likely going to lose the kids permanently.

[molson]

I don't think judges believe that "supervised visitation" can be dangerous. Maybe more will now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

He still had very limited, supervised visitation.

And hadn't even been charged with anything to this point, apparently the kids were taken from the home (that he shared with his dad) moreso because of charges against the dad rather than Powell himself (based on what I've read tonight).

On the other hand though, I think the grandparents who've had custody had a pretty fair point, it wasn't as though the degree of "supervision" was going to stop him if he was determined to do something,

[Mustang]

Now that I have a child, I just can't even wrap my head around a parent doing this. (Not that I could wrap my head around it when I didn't, but it is just a completely different level)

[DougW]

Is totally mind blowing for me to try, even for a second, to understand someone like that. I mean, WTF !. How does someones brain take them there ?

[rowech]

Originally Posted by DougW

Is totally mind blowing for me to try, even for a second, to understand someone like that. I mean, WTF !. How does someones brain take them there ?

I think sometimes we don't really understand true insanity when we see it.

[CrimsonFox]

Yeah all over facebook. People are bawling their eyes out over this. Man I'm so desensitized. It seems like a TV show plot to me. Never think stuff like that would actually happen. THat's like an hour south of me it happened too.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by cartman

Well, yesterday, on what was supposed to be a supervised visit, Powell grabbed his kids and locked the social worker outside. The social worker smelled gas, and while they were on the phone with the authorities to report the incident, the house exploded. Powell and his two sons, aged 7 and 5 were killed. Heartbreakingly the autopsy today showed that the boys suffered axe chops to the head and neck, but the cause of death was smoke inhalation.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH okay that did it!

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by molson

I don't think judges believe that "supervised visitation" can be dangerous. Maybe more will now.

I don't know what a judge's discretion is in things like this, but it sounds like the grandparents recognized that about all that could have been done was done within the bounds of the law. The guy hadn't been charged with anything yet. What apparently set him off was being set up for psycho-sexual evaluation, which from what I read is pretty rare in a situation like this. It sounds like they were doing as much as they could.

I guess a better way to handle supervised visitations like this is to better control the environment by making the parent go to a neutral site for the visitaation and carefully control his access. But then when you do that, this guy ends up taking a bunch more innocent victims with him when he decides to bring a gun or a bomb or whatever. There's only so much that can be done.

[molson]

FWIW, they don't have to wait for criminal charges. It's two different systems and there's all kinds of things that aren't prosecuted, or can't be prosecuted, or aren't even crimes than can result in a loss of parental rights. And obviously this guy had lost some parental rights already. It just depends on the state, how aggressive H&W is, and the discretion of the judge.

[Ksyrup]

I guess the question is, though, outside of suspecting him for murdering his wife, what else was there? He seems to have lost some rights based simply on the fact that he was living with his dad, who has his own set of problems (and every bit as fucked up a life as his son, if not moreso). I don't know enough about this story to know what else they could have used to compeltely take his rights away.

[spleen1015]

Sad, sad story all around. Those poor kids.

[Autumn]

Wow, I hadn't heard about this at all. That's a crazy, horrendous thing. It's truly tragic that children sometimes are born to people like this. I feel awful for the social worker, too, who must feel responsible (though clearly isn't) for letting this happen.

[Arles]

This is the most heinous thing I've ever heard and is awful and sad. Some people should not be allowed to reproduce..

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I guess the question is, though, outside of suspecting him for murdering his wife, what else was there? He seems to have lost some rights based simply on the fact that he was living with his dad, who has his own set of problems (and every bit as fucked up a life as his son, if not moreso). I don't know enough about this story to know what else they could have used to compeltely take his rights away.

Those are two pretty good reasons though, are they not?

I think it's actually harder to terminate parental rights because of an alleged murder or possible exposure to child porn (or worse) than it would be most other kinds of alleged negligence. If someone's a general train wreck and is not capable of taking care of their kids - they have substance abuse issues/the house is a mess/they forget to feed the kid/etc, H&W can do its own investigation and present its own findings. Criminal charges aren't necessary, and the parent doesn't have all the criminal rights associated with that - there's no reasonable doubt standard in play, no drawn out discovery procedures or preliminary hearings, etc. With a murder, or child porn, the criminal agencies are going to "own" that case, and H&W isn't going to be able to do too much on their own unless there's a criminal resolution.

It's true that the more trainwreck/non-violent criminal types will almost always get supervised visits of some type, and I'm not an expert in this area - I just have read a lot of appellate opinions where people have lost parental rights just because of aggressive H&W investigations around that "trainwreck" type stuff - that's what H&W is equipped to investigate and prevent, and they're not stepping on any criminal case to do it, and they don't have to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt. I can just see how a particularly dangerous situation for a kid is when he has any kind of contact with a parent where a serious criminal investigation is merely pending (and it can be pending for a LONG time).

[Ksyrup]

Good reasons, but the criminal charge hasn't been brought, and if there's tangible evidence supporting the fact that he murdered the wife, the cops won't give it up (as you state, they own those cases until they decide to move forward or not). And in the case of ths dad, that's clearly a problem for the son, but it's not as if the son owns his dad's problems. It's more a case of proximity, not that the dad's problems can be put on the son. So those two reasons, at this point, really seem to limit what you can do.

I'm guessing there's some other stuff, too, but the lack of outrage from the grandparents suggests to me they understood what the limitations of the law are and how much had been done so far to protect the kids as best as they could.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Now that I have a child, I just can't even wrap my head around a parent doing this. (Not that I could wrap my head around it when I didn't, but it is just a completely different level)

+1

[dawgfan]

As a recent father, it's clear to me that the only explanation is that Powell had some form of mental illness. The fact that none of us can even comprehend a dad doing that to his kids is because our brains are functioning normally; his clearly was not.

I've tried to imagine some rational explanation for what he did, but I can't find any. Whether it was some delusion about what he thought the kids lives would be like without their mother & father, or whether it was some last act of spite against his in-laws (or a combination of both), his actions with regard to his kids show a brain that was not operating correctly.

Just an unimaginable tragedy for the maternal grandparents - losing their daughter, and now losing their grandkids in such a horrific way.

[Ksyrup]

The part that keeps haunting me when I think about it is the fact that they ran to their fucking deaths. So happy to see their dad, not really comprehending what he had likely done to their mom and oblivious to what was about to happen. They couldn't wait to see him, and minutes later he's chopping at them with an axe or what-not and burning the place down. Inconceivable.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

The part that keeps haunting me when I think about it is the fact that they ran to their fucking deaths. So happy to see their dad, not really comprehending what he had likely done to their mom and oblivious to what was about to happen. They couldn't wait to see him, and minutes later he's chopping at them with an axe or what-not and burning the place down. Inconceivable.

Fuck dude. Just.... fuck!

[Ksyrup]

I know. Doesn't help that I watched a documentary about the life of one of the surviving victims of BTK last night. I'm alternately fascinated and horrified by this stuff.

[rlmayer32]

If anyone was ever in doubt about this asshole, he fixed that. May he burn with the likes of Hitler and Bin Laden permanently!

[path12]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

The part that keeps haunting me when I think about it is the fact that they ran to their fucking deaths. So happy to see their dad, not really comprehending what he had likely done to their mom and oblivious to what was about to happen. They couldn't wait to see him, and minutes later he's chopping at them with an axe or what-not and burning the place down. Inconceivable.

There is an article in the Times with a quote from the grandfather who says that the kids did not want to go to the dad's house on Sunday. It struck him as odd because they had always wanted to before.