Super Bowl XLVI Thread - Giants Vs. Patriots

[EagleFan]

In other news, Peyton is now calling Jim Harbaugh...

[molson]

Fun game, but the Pats and BB especially deserve to lose. I don't get it. Show some guts. They had the opportunity here - Tom Brady, with 3+ minutes to go, needing a TD to win the Super Bowl. Just let the Giants score. They passed up that chance, and instead relied on their defense. Which, I'm sorry, was dumb.

[Danny]

Fantastic superbowl

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by rowech

So why not put out 20 guys on purpose, force NE to run the play, get the 5 yard penalty but cause the clock to run down further?

I was thinking that too when there was 9 seconds left. Chew up the clock for that 5 yards and force the hail mary.

[stevew]

20 guys would get an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty, and probably there's no chance the play would even get started.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by stevew

I'd rather do the given thing(the TD) and force the other team to make the plays required in order to make a TD.

I agree with this FWIW. Even if you make the chip shot (which isn't guaranteed) with 20 seconds left - it's a decent shot for Brady to get close to FG range with one timeout. I'm glad Bradshaw isn't going to be made the goat for this even though I was rooting for a Pats win.

I also don't understand why Belichek "had" to challenge that catch that looked pretty good in realtime. The timeout is so valuable in that situation and the Giants still weren't in scoring range yet.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by rowech

Close game, weird scoring that ends up in a totally normal looking 21-17 score, but not really all that great of a game in my opinion.

It was a typical Giants ugly game. In fact, their 17-14 SB from a few years ago was much better (entertainment wise). I know people like scoring, but I love defense the their previous SB had tons of great defense. This one seemed more like it was offensive mistakes and penalties that kept the score low.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

It's kindof an interesting take on the strategy, a lot like fouling in basketball when up by 3

SI

There are a few things similar to that teams could do to "bend" the rules. It is something they should probably prepare for but in general it seems NFL coaches are good about not exploiting possible loopholes in the rules.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by sabotai

It was a typical Giants ugly game. In fact, their 17-14 SB from a few years ago was much better (entertainment wise). I know people like scoring, but I love defense the their previous SB had tons of great defense. This one seemed more like it was offensive mistakes and penalties that kept the score low.

Agreed...neither team really seemed to me to be on their best game.

[stevew]

watched the hail mary a few more times. Gronk was really close, but in his condition I just don't see him making a twitch play there. The Giants sent way too many guys in the air, and had nobody playing the bounce to the front. They got really lucky there. You have to bat it down, but you need someone to clear out the bounce.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by rowech

So why not put out 20 guys on purpose, force NE to run the play, get the 5 yard penalty but cause the clock to run down further?

I did wonder if Coughlin was sly enough to put 12 out there on purpose.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I also don't understand why Belichek "had" to challenge that catch that looked pretty good in realtime. The timeout is so valuable in that situation and the Giants still weren't in scoring range yet.

I think you have to challenge since it was so close. Plus there could be simultaneous touching out of bounds by the defense there. If the DB contacts the ball with a foot out of bounds.

[molson]

What are the odds of a Patriots TD drive when they have 3+ minutes left and a couple of timeouts? That's what they passed up, out of reverence for old timey 1970s playcalling philosophy or something. Oh well. I'm glad the more deserving team won. This is also probably a good time to break out the "Larry Bird's top 50 plays" I've had stuck on my DVR for about 10 months.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by molson

What are the odds of a Patriots TD drive when they have 3+ minutes left and a couple of timeouts? That's what they passed up, out of reverence for old timey 1970s playcalling philosophy or something. Oh well. I'm glad the more deserving team won. This is also probably a good time to break out the "Larry Bird's top 50 plays" I've had stuck on my DVR for about 10 months.

It would depend on if the game was played like the previous 57 minutes OR if the Giants defense decided to go into conservative mode and basically let them march down the field. It goes hand in hand with your 70s playcalling philosophy gripe.

[sterlingice]

And the converse of the "Giants Fans, now that you have won the Super Bowl, buy some crap" is "Congrats, Pats Fans- if you wants some Super Bowl winning gear, travel to Somalia where you can find your shirts!"

SI

[Thomkal]

Congrats to the Giants and their fans.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by stevew

I think you have to challenge since it was so close. Plus there could be simultaneous touching out of bounds by the defense there. If the DB contacts the ball with a foot out of bounds.

It was first and ten. It's just not a pivotal enough play in my opinion to lose the timeout over. It's a huge play but those timeouts are so fricking important... I dunno. If it's third and ten deep in their own territory and you have a chance to make it fourth and get out of the game on the next play, sure.

I didn't think it was that close in real time either, but I guess we have a lot better camera angle than the Pats coaches get

[Racer]

If Eli Manning hadn't secured a spot in the Hall of Fame before this game, I'd say he definitely has now.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I didn't think it was that close in real time either, but I guess we have a lot better camera angle than the Pats coaches get

Belichek was standing right there.

[molson]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

It would depend on if the game was played like the previous 57 minutes OR if the Giants defense decided to go into conservative mode and basically let them march down the field. It goes hand in hand with your 70s playcalling philosophy gripe.

Nah, the odds of Brady getting a TD drive with 3+ minutes and two timeouts is much greater than the odds of preventing the Giants from getting a FG in the same time period. This isn't after-the-fact rationalization, I was yelling this at the time. Ah well.

[gstelmack]

Sigh. Good game Giants. Pats weren't getting the bounces: one fumble recovery called back on a penalty, two they couldn't jump on, and one pick on great defensive call foiled by a LB who looked the wrong way. Plus Welker, Hernandez, and Branch all dropping balls that hit their hands on the last two drives. Too many small mistakes by the Pats, and the Giants took advantage, making the plays when they needed to. It was a tight game as expected.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by molson

Nah, the odds of Brady getting a TD drive with 3+ minutes and two timeouts is much greater than the odds of preventing the Giants from getting a FG in the same time period. This isn't after-the-fact rationalization, I was yelling this at the time. Ah well.

Im not saying you are wrong. Im just saying they had a lot of other chances to score tds during the game and didnt. I mean yes Brady tends to clutch up but he should have done it sooner.

[Matthean]

As a somewhat Pats fan via Brady, I'm disappointed, but it's not like Brady isn't a first ballot HoFer.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by stevew

watched the hail mary a few more times. Gronk was really close, but in his condition I just don't see him making a twitch play there. The Giants sent way too many guys in the air, and had nobody playing the bounce to the front. They got really lucky there. You have to bat it down, but you need someone to clear out the bounce.

He wasn't that close, the ball was on the ground before he was even within 5 feet of it. Looked closer because it bounced back up to where he was diving.

[molson]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Im not saying you are wrong. Im just saying they had a lot of other chances to score tds during the game and didnt. I mean yes Brady tends to clutch up but he should have done it sooner.

Agreed, they missed many other chances, I just had the slightest hope that BB would do the right thing and make the gutsy call that would give them the chance in the end....but he failed.

[Abe Sargent]

Good stuff by the Giants, and now the HOF questions for Manning and Coughlin begin.

[Danny]

I don't buy the argument of a poorly played game. Very few penalitiea overall only one turnover, both qb's played well. Was a close well played game overall.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Sigh. Good game Giants. Pats weren't getting the bounces: one fumble recovery called back on a penalty, two they couldn't jump on, and one pick on great defensive call foiled by a LB who looked the wrong way. Plus Welker, Hernandez, and Branch all dropping balls that hit their hands on the last two drives. Too many small mistakes by the Pats, and the Giants took advantage, making the plays when they needed to. It was a tight game as expected.

The Giants outplayed them and deserved the win. Had nothing to do with bounces as the Pats got more breaks than the Giants did.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I did wonder if Coughlin was sly enough to put 12 out there on purpose.

I think there's little question that the Giants had 12 men out there on purpose. It's the smart play and I'm surprised teams haven't done it more often in the past in a similar scenario.

Unrelated, it's amazing to think of the effect that Bernard Pollard has had on the Patriots franchise over the past few years thanks to the Brady, Welker and Gronkowski injuries.

I have little doubt that the Patriots would have at least one more championship if not for Pollard and arguably two, and who knows about 2009, although they weren't that strong that season.

[Senator]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I did wonder if Coughlin was sly enough to put 12 out there on purpose.

Well, his OC is K Gilbride, who coached with Buddy Ryan, who had a defensive play called The Polish Defense that purposefully put in 12 players, but usually on the goaline.

http://deadspin.com/5851460/buddy-ry...-was-the-point

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I did wonder if Coughlin was sly enough to put 12 out there on purpose.

Yeah... for some reason only at this moment did i realize how there is relatively little penalty for extra men on the field. I started thinking i'd put 15 out there. NFL would put in a rule change tomorrow, but shit.... it might be worth it in the short term.

[Abe Sargent]

I felt both teams made several mistakes in the last 2:30 of the game, so it was a sloppy end to me


EDIT: This was a response to Danny

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by molson

Nah, the odds of Brady getting a TD drive with 3+ minutes and two timeouts is much greater than the odds of preventing the Giants from getting a FG in the same time period. This isn't after-the-fact rationalization, I was yelling this at the time. Ah well.

But what if they just stall the Giants and the Giants get a FG to put them up by 1 with 2 minutes to go. That's certainly a better situation that 3 mins and a TD to go, particularly since you have to thread the needle and make sure to not leave too much time on the clock for the Giants

SI

[Desnudo]

Felt like the Patriots threw that one away plus had some really bad bounces (both fumbles going to the Giants). Actually feels worse than 2007 in the sense that the Giants didn't do anything special, but somehow won anyway. At this point, they clearly are in the Patriots heads.

[Lathum]

S bellicheck refuses to come out for the post game pressed?

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

There are a few things similar to that teams could do to "bend" the rules. It is something they should probably prepare for but in general it seems NFL coaches are good about not exploiting possible loopholes in the rules.

I remember reading an interview with Dan Reeves a while ago, and he basically conceded that he hadn't done some outlandish things simply because of peer pressure. You do stupid shit and it doesn't work, and you have a hard time finding a job again. If it works, you're a genius, etc.

Seems like there has been a lot more wild experimentation since Belicheck (he's done quite a bit)... but i'm still surprised there isn't more outside the box thinking.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Senator

Well, his OC is K Gilbride, who coached with Buddy Ryan, who had a defensive play called The Polish Defense that purposefully put in 12 players, but usually on the goaline.

Buddy Ryan's "Polish Goal Line" Defense Was Against The Rules, And That Was The Point

Yeah, you think Kevin Gilbride is going to give Buddy Ryan credit for... anything?

(God, I remember this season so vividly)

SI

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Danny

I don't buy the argument of a poorly played game. Very few penalitiea overall only one turnover, both qb's played well. Was a close well played game overall.

I didn't mean that the game was poorly played overall. Just that the penalties and the offensive mistakes happened at the worst times. A few penalties pushed the Giants out of FG range a few times, and a few times the Giants had to settle for FGs in the red zone. Lots a great plays, a good amount of yards gained, but low scoring due to some badly timed penalties and offensive mistakes.

[molson]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

But what if they just stall the Giants and the Giants get a FG to put them up by 1 with 2 minutes to go. That's certainly a better situation that 3 mins and a TD to go, particularly since you have to thread the needle and make sure to not leave too much time on the clock for the Giants

SI

If you have confidence in your defense, that makes sense, and its the traditional playcalling approach to that situation. But I'm just sure there weren't many Pats fans that wouldn't rather see Brady with the chance to win the game v. hoping the defense can hold Manning and the Giants to a FG, IN ENOUGH TIME to bring it back the other way. To me, it was a no brainer. Maybe I'm overestimating the odds, but I want to put my faith in Brady there, rather than the defense v. Manning.

[Desnudo]

I think ultimately the killer was the same thing that almost killed them against Baltimore. Stupid long bomb pass in a completely inapprotriate situation. I get the Gronkowski bomb more than the Slater one, obviously, but why take the risk?

[Abe Sargent]

How would the last two minutes have played o8ut if the Giants didn;t have the two points from the safety?

[SirFozzie]

congrats to the giants and their fans. this one hurts enough that when I come out of sedation tommorow that the pats won, is know it in my soul to be false. I have my homer concerns.. it sounded like michaels and collinsworth were giving a slow four hour blow job to eli and the giants, but in the end: 21-17.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

How would the last two minutes have played o8ut if the Giants didn;t have the two points from the safety?

Great question.

The thing that really impressed me was the Giants play calling once they got into field goal range. They went for another first down when Id guess 90 percent of the teams would have ran 3 times straight up the middle to set up for the go ahead 30 yard fg and leave Brady around 2 minutes of clock.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

congrats to the giants and their fans. this one hurts enough that when I come out of sedation tommorow that the pats won, is know it in my soul to be false. I have my homer concerns.. it sounded like michaels and collinsworth were giving a slow four hour blow job to eli and the giants, but in the end: 21-17.

Your last comment is ironic because I'm seeing a lot of fb and twitter saying the opposite. They were blowing the Pats all night.

[spleen1015]

I hope the decision to let the Giants score or not is not what everyone talks about all day tomorrow.

[molson]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

congrats to the giants and their fans. this one hurts enough that when I come out of sedation tommorow that the pats won, is know it in my soul to be false. I have my homer concerns.. it sounded like michaels and collinsworth were giving a slow four hour blow job to eli and the giants, but in the end: 21-17.

Ya, when a team wins the Super Bowl, they're entitled to any and all announcer blow jobs, and this year is no exception.

[Senator]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I hope the decision to let the Giants score or not is not what everyone talks about all day tomorrow.

It was the right call, but should have done it sooner.

[molson]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I hope the decision to let the Giants score or not is not what everyone talks about all day tomorrow.

I hope it is....only because this pisses me off whenever I watch any college or NFL game, regardless of whether my team is involved - in an offense-friendly, pass-happy league, it is dopey to let the other team run out 3+ minutes and get the final score. This would never happen in the Arena league (as Pumpy would no doubt point out). I just can't comprehend why coaches haven't caught on to this yet.

Edit: I've actually felt this for many years, it's just tonight that it's impacted the team I root for directly. But in general, I do think NFL/college coaches are generally morons in this scenario, living in the 70s.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

it sounded like michaels and collinsworth were giving a slow four hour blow job to eli and the giants, but in the end: 21-17.

The Giants must have treated them to a Broadway show.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

congrats to the giants and their fans. this one hurts enough that when I come out of sedation tommorow that the pats won, is know it in my soul to be false. I have my homer concerns.. it sounded like michaels and collinsworth were giving a slow four hour blow job to eli and the giants, but in the end: 21-17.

I didn't hear that and I'm a Patriots fan all the way.

Although I did find it funny when Collingsworth said the Giants were dominating both sides when the Patriots had two offensive snaps(one safety + the first play).