Sanders v Wlad *SPOILER*

[sabotai]

See, that's how you do it.

Anyone, for those who saw the fight, did you see what happened?

Sanders hit him with a left hook, that left hook sent Wlad's head into Sander's head. That's what caused the cut and Wlad's downfall. Totally unintentional, things like this happen against south paws, but as the commentators are talking about the left hook, it wasn't the punch. It was the head to head contact that did it.

[bigdawg2003]

that was a helluva punch either way you look at it.

[sabotai]

Well yeah. And it would have knocked me into next the decade.

All I'm saying is that Wlad still may be able to take a big punch. Since he went down after the head-to-head contact, let's just say, there's a chance it was that that sent him down and not the punch specifically.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Damn Wlad. 40-1 for Sanders, some people are mighty rich right now.

Well luckily he is only 26 and should get a rematch. That jackass Lewis will probably retire now as the "emperor".

[Marmel]

I lost a lot of respect for Vlad tonight, as a fighter and as a sportsman. He couldn't stay on his feet against a nobody, and then wouldn't give him the proper credit when it was over. Even his brother supposedly told Sanders the belt will be back in the family. Nice.

[GrantDawg]

Best fight I've seen in years. Of course, it is the only fight I've seen in years.

[TroyF]

I made the statement in the last Lewis thread that I thought the K man needed more work before facing Lewis. It's good to be right sometimes.

Lewis, like him or not, is clearly the best heavyweight in the world right now. (Granted, that may be like saying you're the best Bengal #1 draft pick still on an active roster. . .)

After seeing this, there is little doubt in my mind Lennox would have pounded Vlad had they ever fought. He's simply the class of the division right now. I'd be stunned if he lost another fight before he decides to hang up the gloves. (I don't care who you put him up against)

As for Vlad, he'll get another shot. I think he will win the title one day. I just felt he needed more work after having watched his last few fights. I expect he'll fight Sanders again and knock his head off. (not taking anything away from Sanders there, I just think Vlad is the better fighter despite this result)

TroyF

[Marmel]

I would love to see Jones fight Lewis. I thought Jones would have trouble with Ruiz, but he breezed to victory. Ruiz did not look that great to me though, but it could have just been Jones frustrating him with his hand speed, and superior game plan.

[SaukeeWrestler112]

I really don't feel Wlad took the fight seriously. If you look at him before the fight he was completely dry. Aytime you don't work up a sweat before a match and get loose, You're gona be at a disadvantage in the early rounds. Wlad wasn't able to survive that.

If that fight would have taken place in America by the way, I think it would have been called after the first or second knockdown.

[Gwalyn]

I have to admit i am still in a bit of a shock from the fight. I knew Sanders could hit hard, but Vlad took several clean shots one after another when Sanders put his whole body into them. And I guess the question of whether or not could take a big punch might of been answered. I hope it isn't the case and the fight was a bit of a fluke, but who knows. I guess we will see in 8 months when he fights again. Maybe this will give Vlad a reason to get a real traner not one that sits in the corner and tells Vlad how beautiful he is. Man I am still in shock. I just comes to show you how dangerous flash Ko guys are.

As for the Jones vs. Ruis replay, I keep asking myself is roy just that good or does he keep fighting B list boxers? I don't know. I love watching Roy fight but I wish we could see him in a war, the kind of fight that elevates a box to legendary status.

Has anyone ever done a study on boxers cranium structure as related to knockouts? I would love to see MRI and X-ray results of various boxers that have been to known to have incredible chins vs. glass jaws. It makes me wonder is there is a physiological difference in the fighters that is more conducive to being knockout.

[sabotai]

"As for the Jones vs. Ruis replay, I keep asking myself is roy just that good or does he keep fighting B list boxers? I don't know. I love watching Roy fight but I wish we could see him in a war, the kind of fight that elevates a box to legendary status. "

I think think this is why Jones will not be remembered like other champions have been. He hasn't had a fight that put a mark on his career. No one that he fought to the limit and came out on top.

Just watching the HBO Legendary Nights show (something like that...) on the Leonard-Hearns fight confirmed to me that fighters are not remembered by how great they are, they are remembered by how great their opponents were. And in the case of Jones, the answer is "not very". He hasn't fought a great opponent. I'm not saying he's avoided anyone. I'm not a big enough expert on Jones to say if he's done that. I'm just saying, he's fought no great battles. Maybe there aren't any there for him to fight...

Leonard and Hearns are remembered and highly regarded because of the battle they fought, and the battles they fought against other boxers.

(Hagler-Hearns is the best 3 rounds of boxing you will ever see.)

[Blackadar]

Frankly, it's Wlad's manager that should be fired. Wlad wasn't prepared and hadn't warmed up, but who in their right minds puts a challenger in a warm up fight with a guy with one of the best punches in the division, who may be older but has a record of 39-2? Sanders isn't a tomato can by any stretch of the imagination. And who put them in a smaller-than-normal ring, to boot? Not only is the "big punch" the equalizer in boxing, but they made it easier to get hit with the small ring. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

As for Jones, he hasn't fought too many lesser fighters. I'm tired of the suggestion that Jones has ducked better fighters. It's just that he's embarassed pretty much everyone. He's also pretty damned smart in that he's not going to take major risks without major awards and many other fighters have ducked him. He's had a hard time getting some of the other top fighters to get into the ring. Let's look at the fights he's fought since beating James Tony in late 1994.

Nov. 18 James Toney (44-0-2) W -- 12 Las Vegas, Nev.
(Captured IBF super middleweight title). Toney is considered the best pound-for-pound boxer at the time and Jones embarassed him.

1995
Mar. 18 Antoine Byrd (30-6-1) W -- TKO 1 Pensacola, Fla.
(Retained IBF super middleweight title). An easier fight, but Byrd had already fought for the title once before, so he's not a total chump.
June 24 Vinny Paienza (40-4) W -- TKO 6 Atlantic City, N.J.
(Retained IBF super middleweight title). Paz had just defeated Roberto Duran and had won his last 9 fights.
Sept. 30 Tony Thornton (37-5-1) W -- TKO 2 Pensacola, Fla.
(Retained IBF super middleweight title). Thornton has fought twice before for the title and had never been KO'd. It's all over in 2 rounds.

1996
Jan. 12 Merqui Sosa (26-3-2) W -- TKO 2 New York. Another decent fighter who just was clearly overmatched in 2 rounds.
June 15 Eric Lucas (19-2-2) W -- KO 11 Jacksonville, Fla.
(Retained IBF super middleweight title). Lucas' only 2 losses came in Championship bouts and was ranked in the top 10 of all 3 governing bodies. Currently the 168 lb. WBA World Champ.
Oct. 4 Bryant Brannon (16-0) W -- KO 2 New York
(Retained IBF super middleweight title). This was a tune-up for the Nov 22 fight and it was a short night.
Nov. 22 Mike McCallum (48-3-1) W -- 12 Tampa, Fla.
(Won interim WBC light heavyweight title). Considered a great fighter at the time, a former 3 time World Champ. After the fight, McCallum said that Jones was the "best of all time".

1997
Mar. 21 Montell Griffin (26-0) L -- DQ 9 Atlantic City, N.J.
(Lost WBC light heavyweight title). Griffin wins while KO'd on the canvas. Jones hit him when Griffin went down because the ref didn't step in to start the count.
Aug. 21 Montell Griffin (27-0) W -- KO 1 Ledyard, Conn.
(Regained WBC light heavyweight title). This shows what Jones can do when focused. Griffin couldn't even get out of the first round.

1998
Apr. 25 Virgil Hill (43-2) W -- KO 4 Biloxi, Miss. Hill is ranked the 2nd best Light Heavy by Boxing mag. Lasts 4 rounds and gets KO'd by a body shot.
July 18 Lou Del Valle (31-1) W -- 12 New York. Holder of the WBA Lt. Heavy belt. (Unified WBC and WBA light heavyweight titles)
Nov. 14 Otis Grant (31-1-1) W -- TKO 10 Mashantucket, Conn.
(Retained WBC and WBA light heavyweight titles). Former WBO Lt. Heavy Champ. An easier fight.

1999
Jan. 9 Rick Frazier (18-2-1) W -- KO 2 Pensacola, Fla. Manditory WBC challenger. also ranked #3 by the WBA and #6 by the IBF. Retained WBC and WBA light heavyweight titles)
June 5 Reggie Johnson W -- 12 Biloxi, Miss. IBF Champion with two title defenses. (Unifies WBA-WBC-IBF light heavyweight titles)

2000
Jan. 15 David Telesco (23-2) W -- 12 New York. USBA Lt. Heavy champ. (Retained unified light heavyweight title)
May 13 Richard Hall (24-2, 23 KOs) W -- TKO 11 Indianapolis
Retained unified light heavyweight title). No comment.
Sept. 9 Eric Harding (19-0-1) W -- TKO 10 New Orleans. Good fighter, manditory IBF challenger who also beat Montel Griffin. Retained unified light heavyweight title)

2001
Feb. 24 Derrick Harmon (20-1) W -- TKO 10 Tampa, Fla. Ok, ok, he's a tomato can.
Jul. 28 Julio Caesar Gonzalez (27-0) W -- 12. Gonzalez is considered a very good fighter, who's won 9 of his last 10 by KO. Gonzales hits the carpet 3 times in this fight.

2002
Feb. 2 Glen Kelly (26-0-1) W -- KO 7 Miami. Manditory IBF challenger. (Retained unified light heavyweight title)
Sept. 7 Clinton Woods (32-1) W -- TKO 7 Portland, Ore. Who else is he going to fight at this point? (Retained WBC, WBA & IBF World Light Heavyweight Titles)

2003
Mar. 1 John Ruiz (38-4-1) W -- 12 Las Vegas, Nev. 'Ruiz had beaten Holyfield and outweighted Jones by 30 pounds. (Captures WBA Heavyweight Title)

Who else is Jones going to fight? Look at the rankings. The WBA has a bunch of Jones' victims in the top 5 of the Lt. Heavy and Cruiserweight divisions, including DeValle, Hill, Griffin, Toney and Gonzalez. So does the WBC and IBF. It's pitiful except for a couple of boxers.

Hopkins? He's already beaten him. Hopkins wants Jones to drop 10 pounds and wants even money for the fight. If Hopkins is serious, let him gain some weight and challenge Jones in his own division. It's easier to gain weight than to lose it.

Vassily Jirov (31-0) wouldn't be a bad opponent, but nobody knows who he is outside of strict boxing circles. If he beats James Toney, then we'll talk. I think this may be the best matchup of the bunch.

Tyson? Good match, but he's focused on Lewis. I'd love to see this one, because everyone knows Tyson can still punch.

Lewis? The guy is 50 lbs. bigger than Jones. I doubt Lewis would do it either. At this point in his career, Lewis has nothing to gain by fighting Jones.

One of the Klitschko brothers? Wlad is now damaged goods and Vitaly will be fighting Lewis soon. After that, who knows? These guys are huge compared to Jones - I think the size differential is waaaay too much to ask.

Chris Byrd? He is the IBF Heavyweight champ who's a lighter puncher. At 35-2, he has a decent record. But if I'm Jones, unless I want to make an "investment" in the Heavyweight division, Byrd is damaged goods. If he beats Byrd, pundits will say that Byrd is another Ruiz, a paper champion.

Holyfield? A good draw, but Holyfield couldn't keep up with Jones now. Please, Evander, retire. You're slurring your words already. Too many more punches and you could have some serious damage done.

James Toney? If he beats Jirov, this would be an attractive fight.

[sabotai]

Anyone get the impression that Blackie's a Jones Jr. fan? It's a subtle feeling I'm getting.

"I'm tired of the suggestion that Jones has ducked better fighters."

I didn't suggest that...I even said I have no idea if he has or hasn't. I even said that maybe he's just that much better and there aren't any fights for him to fight.

Your post may not have been in response of mine, but if it is, I'm just clearing up what I was saying...

[Gwalyn]

I think it was more in response to my post that said,"I keep asking myself is roy just that good or does he keep fighting B list boxers?"

[Blackadar]

Nah, it's just a reaction to the professional "pundits" like Max Kellerman.

But really, can anyone think of a worthy opponent who doesn't outweigh him by 50 pounds?

[sabotai]

No, but then again I'm far from an expert. If you really want to ask some experts, the people who frequent the .400 forum under the Title Fight game know their stuff.

[Gwalyn]

Originally posted by Blackadar
Nah, it's just a reaction to the professional "pundits" like Max Kellerman.

But really, can anyone think of a worthy opponent who doesn't outweigh him by 50 pounds?

Not really.

I just rewatched the Jones fight and the Klitchko fight. I will say I a much more impressed with Roy's showing the third time around. He took a couple of real good shots and shrugged them off. Ruiz was never able to cut him off and really pin him.

How many calories do you think Ruiz burned with his shoulder dance?


As for Vlad's fight, all I can think is that big white guys sure look funny when they fall. I have never seen Vlad look so unsure of himself from the get go with Sanders. Hell I haven't seen anyone ever back him up either.

[Blackadar]

Jones' chin is underestimated. He just hasn't had to use it much.

As for Wlad, that punch from Sanders was a lot harder than it looked. From a reverse angle, you can see he got the left in under Wlad's right while they were both going forward. Wlad was out on his feet before the follow-up punch put him on the canvas.

[Gwalyn]

I have to say that the first knockdown in the second round was awesome. The look on Wlad's face with his eyes crossed and his mouth in the "o" shape was priceless. It reminded me of Glass Joe in Mike Tyson Punchout on the NES when you stunned him.

[A-Husker-4-Life]

Roy Jones Jr. is the smartest fighter ever.... He can out class you and he can out punch you... I have never saw a boxer lead with a left hook like Roy does... Ruiz weighted 30 pounds more and he looked like the weaker fighter.... Roy Jones Jr is the greatest boxer of our Time..... and maybe the greatest ever?

[Bee]

Roy Jones Jr. is far from the greatest ever. He's a good fighter and has had a very solid career, but I wouldn't even say he's the best fighter of our time.

He does have a problem with no one to fight.

Chris Byrd would be a bad matchup because they are both the same type of fighter (it would be an ugly fight). Not a big draw and would be ugly. Definitely don't see this happening.

Tyson would be entertaining, and Tyson's a small heavyweight so Jones would be fighting someone close to his own size. The problem is this would be such a huge payday, it would be really hard to pull it off. These kinds of fights are nearly impossible to arrange. Could be a good fight if Tyson is trained properly, but I don't see anyone pulling this off financially. There's also no upside for Tyson to take the fight.

Holyfield would be mismatched, but a decent payday and not too big money that it would be hard to swing. Financially attractive, but not much of a challenge. I can see this one happening, but it doesn't prove anything and probably won't be much of a match. Holyfield does have name value, but thats all that's left now.

Toney would be a good fight, but I don't know how big of a money day it would be. Toney can give Jones a fight, so why would Jones want to take the chance unless he can get paid? Doesn't make much sense to me, but might be an outside chance of happening.

Lewis is too big. Jones won't take him on unless it's huge money. I don't see this happening either.

The Klitshcko brothers are too big as well. Too dangerous for too little money. With the younger brother losing, they both have moved down a notch in the eyes of the public (yes IMO both brothers took a reputation hit from that loss).

There just isn't a good match really that I see.

[sabotai]

"There's also no upside for Tyson to take the fight."

Well, there is a title. And although it doesn't mean anything since Lewis is viewed as the heavyweight champion, it could be leverage to get more money in a fight with Lewis. "Unify the titles" type of deal would probably draw more money.

[Bee]

That's true. The titles are sort of meaningless to me because of all the politics that decides the champions. I wouldn't think it would help him get more money against Lewis, but it might put more pressure on Lewis to take the fight with Tyson. That's a good point.

[HornedFrog Purple]

He could beat the dogmeat out of Byrd, have two titles and declare himself emperor of boxing then relinquish both of them.

Oh wait somebody already did that....

[sabotai]

Horned, you forgot one thing. You have to refuse to fight contenders for your title, have them stripped from you for being a coward, THEN you can proclaim yourself emperor of boxing.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Oh yeah. Forgot to add let all the real fighters of your era beat the dogmeat out of each other, then after they are all gone or in prison emerge and whoop on nobodies, get the titles, then forget you are supposed to fight your #1 contenders every once in a while.

Better?

[sabotai]

Much.

[Havok]

Great Post Blackader,

I couldnt agree more. I've always been a big fight fan and ever since i saw Roy Jones fight i knew i was watching greatness. Max Kellerman (a huge RJ fan now) just wrote a really great article about RJ after he destroyed Ruiz. It pretty much sumed up how i feel about RJ.

People are way out of line when they say Roy hasnt fought anyone. The problem with RJ is that he is SO good that everyone that he fights he makes them look like a bum. How many Rounds as RJ lost in his career?? Maybe 5-10(if that) in over 40 fights!! I've never seen RJ get hurt or even in danger of getting hurt in a fight.

IMO he's that baddest man to ever step into the ring. Now im only 23 so i havent gotten to see alot of the old time greats like Suger Ray Robinson, Gene Touney, Archie Moore etc... But in the last 2 decades noone's even close.

[Havok]

As for Vlad's fight, all I can think is that big white guys sure look funny when they fall. I have never seen Vlad look so unsure of himself from the get go with Sanders. Hell I haven't seen anyone ever back him up either.

LOL!!!!

its a shame really.... White guys love watching boxing. To bad we're not any good at it

[bosshogg23]

I watched the Wlad fight on Saturday and again on Sunday morning. He was just wrecked! When I saw Sanders take off his shirt and you could see fat on him, I thought he was toast. Boy was I wrong. I dont know where Wlad goes after this fight.......probably a rematch with Sanders, but if not here is what I would like to see........

Id love to see Roy Jones take on Sanders in an attempt to pick up the WBO belt. With the winner taking on Byrd for the IBF version. Whoever the winner turns out to be, that would unify 3 belts with a potential mega payday vs. Lewis.

I dont see this as likely but one can always dream!

[Mr. Sparkle]

To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other.

[PilotMan]

Ex-heavyweight champ Corrie Sanders, 46, shot dead; upset Wladimir Klitschko in 2003 - ESPN

CAPE TOWN, South Africa -- Former heavyweight champion Corrie Sanders has died after being shot by robbers at a restaurant during a family celebration. He was 46.

Sanders
Police say Sanders was shot in the hand and stomach at a family member's 21st birthday party at the restaurant in Brits, in South Africa's North West province, on Saturday night
He died in a hospital in the capital city of Pretoria in the early hours of Sunday morning.
A former WBO and WBU champion, the South African southpaw knocked out Wladimir Klitschko in one of the great upsets in heavyweight boxing in 2003.
He retired in 2008 with a 42-4 record, with 31 knockouts.