The Ads are here to stay

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by GSI guy

Also, I saw a topic regarding the ads. GameSpy provides hosting for free, and if we don't serve ads on hosted sites then we will simply not be able to support free hosting financially. As I mentioned before, this is 1.3GB+ database, and the forums are incredibly active. Please understand the need for these ads.

I am all for GameSpy needing to put food on the table, so I don't want to pressure them to take our ads away.

I think, though, that we need to decide if we have the ability to pay for ad-free hosting. We may not, in which case we don't have a choice but to stay.

I have no idea how much all of this costs, but we do have a lot of active members who will probably be willing to chip in a little bit.

Is it feasable?

[SirFozzie]

it's more feasible then put up with crap that we've done without for 5 years. When it was banner ads, I had no problem with it.. popups? HELL no.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

it's more feasible then put up with crap that we've done without for 5 years. When it was banner ads, I had no problem with it.. popups? HELL no.

As I posted in a previous post, this attitude is silly in my book.

As they stated, we use up 1.3+GB... we use a ton of bandwidth and it's FREE. Decide to go to a pay service, fine. But as long as it is free I don't think we have any right to complain about these ads.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by wade moore

As I posted in a previous post, this attitude is silly in my book.

As they stated, we use up 1.3+GB... we use a ton of bandwidth and it's FREE. Decide to go to a pay service, fine. But as long as it is free I don't think we have any right to complain about these ads.

I agree. I have no problem with what GameSpy is doing. I'm just trying to start a discussion with us as rational market actors. Do the ads annoy us enough to make leaving worth our while?

We need to remember that moving is an annual cost. We not only have to raise enough money to pay for a year of hosting. We also need to make sure that we will have continued fiscal support so that we don't become orphans.

Finally, I don't want to burn any bridges with GameSpy. They seem like they have treated us pretty well.

[vtbub]

I'm fully aware of the need to generate revenue. Advertising walks a fine line between being obtrusive as it is in this case and just part of the website experience, such as what I do at SGS.

It is a pain to ask people to click ads, no matter how targeted they are. The reality is that with the probable needs of this site, it will need at least a semi-dedicated server to serve the traffic needs.

Hopefully Ryan and Ben can have a constructive conversation with IGN about how ads are displayed. If the board does switch hosts, we will need to be vigilant about the $1,000 a year on operation costs.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by wade moore

As I posted in a previous post, this attitude is silly in my book.

As they stated, we use up 1.3+GB... we use a ton of bandwidth and it's FREE. Decide to go to a pay service, fine. But as long as it is free I don't think we have any right to complain about these ads.

Quit interjecting logic here.

Screw the ads. Screw them up their stupid ass.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I am all for GameSpy needing to put food on the table, so I don't want to pressure them to take our ads away.

I think, though, that we need to decide if we have the ability to pay for ad-free hosting. We may not, in which case we don't have a choice but to stay.

I have no idea how much all of this costs, but we do have a lot of active members who will probably be willing to chip in a little bit.

Is it feasable?

I'd expect it would be fairly expensive.

As an example while these forums aren't as active as the sigames.com ones - it costs us approximately £5,000 per month to keep those up and running ... (but as I indicated these forums are a fraction of the size of those, but it shows its not likely to be 'pin money' unless there are a lot of people contributing).

[SirFozzie]

I agree.. another board I post to (DVDVR) went to Google ads. Have no problem with that. Banner ads? No problem. Intercept/Pop Up Ads? I reiterate, not only no.. but FUCK no.

See post below.. IE.. FUCKING TIME STAMP BUG

[stevew]

I do however wish they would do some of those google ads, instead. As they are less cumbersome.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

I agree.. another board I post to (DVDVR) went to Google ads. Have no problem with that. Banner ads? No problem. Intercept/Pop Up Ads? I reiterate, not only no.. but FUCK no.

See post below.. IE.. FUCKING TIME STAMP BUG

Give me a logical reason why these are unacceptable. Keep this in mind..

A) We were able to completely bypass banner ads with our templates
B) Do you ever pay attention to the banner ads?

Edit to add: You like the banner ads because you can easily completely disregard them - this is exactly the reason they are ineffective.

[Maple Leafs]

Everyone realizes that you can click the link at the top of the ad and skip it, right? You don't disable the ads, etc., but you do go on to the next page right away.

Just want to make sure nobody is sitting through an entire ad they're not interested in just to get the next page to load.

[vtbub]

SGS has a clickthrough rate of 1.1% for the month of November. And that is considered good, but I've raised less than 50% of the site's cost, and we are talking less than $10.

The community would have to be much more active in rasing money in order for it to survive outside here.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Give me a logical reason why these are unacceptable. Keep this in mind..

A) We were able to completely bypass banner ads with our templates
B) Do you ever pay attention to the banner ads?

Edit to add: You like the banner ads because you can easily completely disregard them - this is exactly the reason they are ineffective.

Because it's a pain in the ass, we haven't had them since moving over here?

[Ben E Lou]

I've asked the bandwidth question to lufiaguy, and am awaiting a response. That's a pretty big deal.

As has been pointed out, it's only one quick click to bypass the ads. Considering that they don't come up that often to begin with, that's doesn't seem like a deal-breaker to me. However, let's find out what kind of money we're dealing with here.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

As has been pointed out, it's only one quick click to bypass the ads. Considering that they don't come up that often to begin with, that's doesn't seem like a deal-breaker to me. However, let's find out what kind of money we're dealing with here.

Fine, but do consider that some folks (like myself) do consider it a deal-breaker.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Daimyo

How often do you guys get these ads?

I'm probably getting them once every 50-100 clicks, if I had to guess, but I'll check it now.

[SirFozzie]

Too bad it's not possible to pay to avoid the ads, like some other sites offer. $3-$5 a month to avoid ads.. don't need too many folks to pay that and it adds up quickly.

[Daimyo]

How often do you guys get these ads?

[vtbub]

Originally Posted by Daimyo

How often do you guys get these ads?

It varies. I went twenty times without seeing one, then twice in a row with having them.

[Daimyo]

Maybe I'm just lucky... I haven't seen one yet after probably 100 or clicks.

[Ben E Lou]

We've used nearly 2 GB since being switched over yesterday. We came back online around 6pm, so I think it is reasonable to assume 3ish GB per day, 75-100 GB per month.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Because it's a pain in the ass, we haven't had them since moving over here?

So your argument is because they have lost money on us for the past 5 years they have no right to stop now?

wow...

This is really shallow and ridiculous imo...

[Anthony]

leave it as-is. that way when a paying contributor gets banned/boxed he isn't paying for a service he can't use. google-ads don't work because of where they're usually placed it makes it easy to bypass them, which is against the whole point of a site having ads in the first place.

as long as the ads are every so often i don't have a problem. this place is nice, but i don't like it that much to pay for it so that if i do/say somethign to get boxed i'm not only boxed but i'm giving money to a site i can't even use. just leave it.

[Bad-example]

Banner ads don't bother me much except when the ad server is laggy or down, delaying or preventing the page from displaying the content I am there to see.

These click-thru ads...well, I tend to completely avoid sites that use those. Those ads are inflicted upon the reader, and that just bothers me.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

Those ads are inflicted upon the reader, and that just bothers me.

I really don't understand the "inflicted" part...I haven't read a single word of one yet.

[RendeR]

Can one of the admins give us a round estimate of bandwidth usage per month? The company I use to host my web stuff offers 3 gigs of storage and tons of bells and whistles for 60 bucks a year. The bandwith might be an issue, so i wanted to see just how much we're using here.


For the month of August my website had over 2 gig of bandwidth usage and never came close to any set limits, so I'm wondering if this company wouldn't be a good place for a permanent, ad-free site for FOFC?

[Bad-example]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

I really don't understand the "inflicted" part...I haven't read a single word of one yet.

I guess the feeling I have is one of being held hostage or issued orders. Maybe I am just overly sensitive about being told what to do.

"You will click HERE if you want to see this page. Fuck you if you don't like it!"

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

I'm probably getting them once every 50-100 clicks, if I had to guess, but I'll check it now.

My estimate would be 5-10, but I am willing to live with it, frankly. Moving is a risky step, and I am old and fear change.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Moving is a risky step...

My primary fear would be forum load times, with the amount of traffic we sometimes have during peak hours.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

leave it as-is. that way when a paying contributor gets banned/boxed he isn't paying for a service he can't use. google-ads don't work because of where they're usually placed it makes it easy to bypass them, which is against the whole point of a site having ads in the first place.

as long as the ads are every so often i don't have a problem. this place is nice, but i don't like it that much to pay for it so that if i do/say somethign to get boxed i'm not only boxed but i'm giving money to a site i can't even use. just leave it.

Amazingly, this goes double for me. It's not broke, don't fix it. When I'm logged in and using my template, the ads are very non-obstrusive. Much less worse than those horrific Google ads that make sites look like spam sites and cheap ripoffs. This sites uses incredible amounts of bandwidth and storage -- and despite past complaints it is generally very reliable, and I am noticing a HUGE speed difference with the new server.

You want to kill this site, take it off GameSpy and try to pay for it through advertising and member contributions. You think things are bad now with people putting in their 2 cents about moderating decisions and the like, it would be worse with membership fees. Try to box/ban somebody who spent ten bucks to support the site and you're in for more trouble than its worth.

Why people would turn down a free service for the level of ads I've seen so far boggles my mind. Of course, doesn't GameSpy offer a paid no/limited ads membership? If you don't like it, the market has provided options.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Amazingly, this goes double for me. It's not broke, don't fix it. When I'm logged in and using my template, the ads are very non-obstrusive. Much less worse than those horrific Google ads that make sites look like spam sites and cheap ripoffs. This sites uses incredible amounts of bandwidth and storage -- and despite past complaints it is generally very reliable, and I am noticing a HUGE speed difference with the new server.

You want to kill this site, take it off GameSpy and try to pay for it through advertising and member contributions. You think things are bad now with people putting in their 2 cents about moderating decisions and the like, it would be worse with membership fees. Try to box/ban somebody who spent ten bucks to support the site and you're in for more trouble than its worth.

Why people would turn down a free service for the level of ads I've seen so far boggles my mind. Of course, doesn't GameSpy offer a paid no/limited ads membership? If you don't like it, the market has provided options.

Um.. I think you haven't seen the full screen ads that intercept where you want to go and make you "Click here to continue on while you view our animated ad" that we're bitching about instead of the banner ads, kcchief.

[Simms]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Can one of the admins give us a round estimate of bandwidth usage per month? The company I use to host my web stuff offers 3 gigs of storage and tons of bells and whistles for 60 bucks a year. The bandwith might be an issue, so i wanted to see just how much we're using here.


For the month of August my website had over 2 gig of bandwidth usage and never came close to any set limits, so I'm wondering if this company wouldn't be a good place for a permanent, ad-free site for FOFC?

Skydog estimated above that we go through 75-100 GB bandwidth a month. Add to that the fact that the database size for the forum is well over 1 GB. And just because a host offers you more than 1 GB of webspace doesn't mean they'll necessarily allow you to keep databases of more than 1 GB.

As someone else mentioned (either above, or in a different thread), this forum wouldn't last a week on a shared server without getting kicked off and dropped by the host. You're going to need semi-dedicated hosting at the very least, if not entirely dedicated. In which case, you're looking at anywhere from $100-$500 per month, depending on the quality and reputability of the host.

[Daimyo]

Originally Posted by Samdari

My estimate would be 5-10, but I am willing to live with it, frankly. Moving is a risky step, and I am old and fear change.

I haven't seen one yet. I just went through the front page and middle clicked each thread (to open them in a new tab) and none of them had it. Maybe its just something with my setup.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Simms

Skydog estimated above that we go through 75-100 GB bandwidth a month. Add to that the fact that the database size for the forum is well over 1 GB. And just because a host offers you more than 1 GB of webspace doesn't mean they'll necessarily allow you to keep databases of more than 1 GB.

As someone else mentioned (either above, or in a different thread), this forum wouldn't last a week on a shared server without getting kicked off and dropped by the host. You're going to need semi-dedicated hosting at the very least, if not entirely dedicated. In which case, you're looking at anywhere from $100-$500 per month, depending on the quality and reputability of the host.

The total storage is 3 gig for my account, which is inclusive of anything I use, databases included. So that's not really an issue. My current bandwidth for the month is at 277 meg, and is listed at 1% of my limit. So I doubt it would support our usage here at the current level of service. They offer much higher levels of service as well at fairly reasonable prices.

If anyone wants to check them over for possible use:

http://www.webhostingbuzz.com

Be well.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

We've used nearly 2 GB since being switched over yesterday. We came back online around 6pm, so I think it is reasonable to assume 3ish GB per day, 75-100 GB per month.

EasyCGI gives me 150GB per month with my basic hosting plan. If I go to the $30/month plan, I get 350GB. Currently 6GB of disk space.

In other words, if that number is accurate, I could move the whole board to my current host and keep it within the "what I pay now for my simple web site".

My take on ads:

1) Don't make them what slows the board down. I worked to get around the banner ads here because I watched my browser stop on "waiting for host ..." for the ad server. Keep your ad server up with the rest of the site, please.

2) Don't make them block my getting around. It's almost but not quite the deal breaker it is for me that it is for SirFozzie.

As for why I want to leave GameSpy: I'm sick of the board going down for a day or more every couple of months while they completely shuffle things around. If they are actually making money off us through the ads, then we ought to get better service than this. We are "paying" for the board by putting up with the ads so they can make their money.

If they actually lose money off us or just barely break even, I might be willing to let that slide more, but all indications are that as a profit-making enterprise, they're making money off of us. Of course, maybe all these changes are because they're losing money and trying to make it a profit-making enterprise, in which case maybe they should pay a bit more attention to the service they give us. Having one of their techs here answering questions is a good start, so maybe that will get better.

Wait, did I just talk myself out of my original point?

[Ben E Lou]

Is it not true that database size and storage space are two different things?

[Easy Mac]

I'd have to agree that I hate the ads. I've gotten them frequently, seemingly far more frequently than most.

That being said, I'd have to agree that we'd get kicked off a shared server, but how about something like this:

http://www.dreamhost.com/dedicated/servers.html

$100 a month
500 gb bandwith a month
30 gb space

Of course, I'm sure they'd raise the rates to $150-200 after the 1 year introductory (I've still got most of a year left with my plan for $9 total, but I'm already dreading the $150 I'll pay next year... shameless plugs)

So $1200 a year. Now, that is a bit steep, I understand. However, that's like $20 from 60 people. I know I'd throw in $20 to a paypal account to pay for it each year. Doesn't even have to be a membership fee. Just pass around the tin starting in November each year and keep going, make it so no one can pay more than $20. Even collect a little more than needed, that way if someone gets banned, we can just refund them the whole $20 or a prorated portion. Even make it part of the agreement when they sign up, saying if they contribute any money to the site, their money will be paid back if they are banned from the board.

I'm fine with something like that.

Thoughts?

Edited to add: This is all I could Find on the site in my post about database size limits.

[Simms]

At every host I've used, my database size has not figured into my disk space used. And many cohosting outfits, such as 1and1 (which had a great freebie deal when they launched a couple of years ago) will offer things like 5 GB of storage and unlimited MySQL databases....but they cap the DB size at 100 megs.

[vtbub]

Your storage space includes database size and whatever else is hosted on site.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Simms

At every host I've used, my database size has not figured into my disk space used. And many cohosting outfits, such as 1and1 (which had a great freebie deal when they launched a couple of years ago) will offer things like 5 GB of storage and unlimited MySQL databases....but they cap the DB size at 100 megs.

That's more along the lines of what I was thinking we'd be dealing with--needing something to take care of a large database.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Too bad it's not possible to pay to avoid the ads, like some other sites offer. $3-$5 a month to avoid ads.. don't need too many folks to pay that and it adds up quickly.

Chuck:

I see that you're viewing this thread. Is this an option?

[st.cronin]

Just chiming in to say I think the ads are no big deal at all.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Simms

At every host I've used, my database size has not figured into my disk space used. And many cohosting outfits, such as 1and1 (which had a great freebie deal when they launched a couple of years ago) will offer things like 5 GB of storage and unlimited MySQL databases....but they cap the DB size at 100 megs.

We used to use 1and1 at Gamenikki. Their customer service got to the point that we switched to Rawserve some time ago, and that's where we've stayed ever since.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Simms

At every host I've used, my database size has not figured into my disk space used. And many cohosting outfits, such as 1and1 (which had a great freebie deal when they launched a couple of years ago) will offer things like 5 GB of storage and unlimited MySQL databases....but they cap the DB size at 100 megs.

Ah, okay, did not know that. EasyCGI doesn't seem to have anywhere that tells me the max database size; closest I found was an option to buy another 50MB of database size, which seems to hint at a limit along the lines of what you are talking about.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

I really don't understand the "inflicted" part...I haven't read a single word of one yet.

ditto. i instinctively go to the upper right hand part of the screen and click on the "skip this ad" link.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

Maybe I am just overly sensitive about being told what to do.

"You will click HERE if you want to see this page. Fuck you if you don't like it!"

I take it that you are neither in the military, nor married, then.

[[GSI]lufiaguy]

As for why I want to leave GameSpy: I'm sick of the board going down for a day or more every couple of months while they completely shuffle things around. If they are actually making money off us through the ads, then we ought to get better service than this. We are "paying" for the board by putting up with the ads so they can make their money.

BTW, this new hosting platform has been in the works for a long time. Before 2005 hosting was in turmoil. This should be the final "shuffle", and now that hosted sites are starting to serve ads properly, IT staff are giving more priority to hosting (so if a server does go down it won't be for long).

[FrogMan]

speaking of ads, I'm not seeing many, but I do see the blank "page unavailable" crap quite often and at odd times, I mean, after clicking the arrow that should bring me to the last post in a thread, or clicking on the link to the main forum, or clicking on one thread title, or even when I clicked the submit button in another thread. I posted about this in the "migration problems" thread with the URL it was trying to send me to and that URL makes me think that whenever I get the "page unavaible" message is because it's trying to feed me ads but is failing to connect to the ad server...

FM

[Schmidty]

Ads are annoying, but the amount of whining and distress they cause some people is laughable. People that can't deal with small inconveniences need come down to earth and get a reality check.

[FrogMan]

examples of links that gave me the blank "page unavailable" page...

http://wrapper.gamespy.com/s?from=http%3A%2F%2Ffof.sportplanet.gamespy.com%2Fforums%2Findex.php%3F&siteId=6205&size=interstitial&ctky=289558643086959451132772955276&docTitle=Front%20Office%20Football%20Central%20-%20powered%20by%20vBulletin

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?goto=lastpost&t=44719

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?goto=lastpost&t=44718

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=44719

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/forumdisplay.php?f=22

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/forumdisplay.php?f=6

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/forumdisplay.php?f=6
(after hittting alt-left arrow to come back to general discussion from within a thread)

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?goto=lastpost&t=44719

FM