ESPN's 30 for 30

spleen1015 · 10-06-2009, 09:25 AM

I've always like sports documentaries. I know it is ESPN celebrating its 30th Anniversary, but some of these stories sound interesting to me.

The first one starts tonight. Kings Ransom is the story of how the Edmonton Oilers traded Wayne Gretzky to the Los Angeles Kings. I know Gretzky played for the Oilers and won Stanley Cups with them, but I didn't pay attention to hockey until after he was traded and playing with the Kings. So, I don't know the story around the trade. So, this story interests me.

Anyone else planning on catching these?

Here is the schedule:
hxxp://30for30.espn.com/schedule.html

DaddyTorgo · 10-06-2009, 09:26 AM

cool. might check some of them out

Logan · 10-06-2009, 09:27 AM

DVR has been set. Simmons has been pimping it very hard (he's involved) but I'm sure I'll like it anyway.

molson · 10-06-2009, 09:28 AM

The whole thing looks very cool, I'll be checking it out.

Here's Bill Simmons patting himself on the back a little bit for the idea, and some other background:

ESPN 30 for 30

Ronnie Dobbs2 · 10-06-2009, 09:29 AM

I think that, despite the Simmons-douchiness, it's going to be great. That is, so long as ESPN keeps their hands off and lets the directors do their work.

Radii · 10-06-2009, 09:32 AM

I'm definitely looking forward to it. I'm not a hockey fan at all but I'll give the first one a shot anyway. There's one on Len Bias and one on Steve Bartman, I am *very* much looking forward to those two specifically.

Dr. Sak · 10-06-2009, 10:13 AM

Heh they took that idea (about the Gretzky trade) right off the NHL Network. They aired to story behind it last year since it was the anniversary.

Logan · 10-06-2009, 10:24 AM

I'm pretty sure a good amount of it has been in development for about two years, but even still, it's ESPN...I'd say there's a 1% chance anyone over there is paying attention to something that the NHL Network is airing.

RainMaker · 10-07-2009, 12:51 AM

Big fan of Berg's work and big fan of documentaries in general. But this just didn't do much for me. It came across slow and plodded through the story. It also didn't offer up much stuff that we don't already know. I was expecting a unique angle on the trade, but what I saw was a generic puffi piece that I've seen done a million times.

Hopefully the next one is better.

Logan · 10-13-2009, 08:15 PM

A little more than halfway through tonight's "The Band That Wouldn't Die" which is about the old Baltimore Colts marching band that continued to play despite not having a team, with the hopes of bringing a new team back to the city. Not sure if it's because I knew nothing about the story beforehand, but I'm enjoying this much more than the Gretzky one.

JS19 · 10-13-2009, 08:26 PM

Worth watching? I was 100% disappointed with the Gretzky one, so with my disappointment from last week, and the fact that I really have no interest in a marching band, I decided to skip this one, have it dvr'ed though.

Logan · 10-13-2009, 08:32 PM

I was the same way on both and only put it on because I had some time to kill, and am glad I did.

QuikSand · 10-13-2009, 08:56 PM

Barry Levinson did a good job with the Colts Band piece tonight, but he usually brings a pretty good game. A lot of Baltimore/Maryland references in there for any insiders, too.

kcchief19 · 10-13-2009, 09:15 PM

Yes, the Colts doc was much better than the Gretzky. That said, I don't think it's Barry Levinson's best work but it was more than a recitation of facts and rehashing of an old story that Berg did.

I like the nontraditional interview style of the series, but occasionally it gets distracting. As usual with documentaries, I think the least told stories will be the best to watch.

BishopMVP · 10-13-2009, 09:28 PM

The big story that has a lot of potential for new angles in my eyes is the one on U Miami done by the Cocaine Cowboys guys. Having the first one on Gretzky was a really strange choice to lead off the series imo - he's not really that prominent a sports figure today, but more importantly what was the hook supposed to be? If you wanted to do "celebrity athlete comes to LA" Beckham would be much more relevant (and probably interesting).

Arles · 10-14-2009, 12:32 AM

I enjoyed the first two and can't wait for the one on the USFL next. Given the Favre-fest, mind-numbing ESPN programming I have seen lately - this is a welcome change.

For the Gretzky one, I really liked that it showed that both Peter Pocklington and Gretzky as still conflicted to this day on the trade. On one hand, Pocklington said he had immediate second thoughts and tried to offer a contract to Wayne at the last minute to stay - yet on the other hand he would do the deal again. For Wayne, he basically admits he probably would have won 4 more cups, insinuates it may have been better to go to a different team (Detroit was mentioned once), but says at the end it was the right move.

I like Berg's work and I think he did a great job of showing the angst that went with this trade from all angles and depicting the "scylla and charybdis" of:

a. helping to build the NHL in western America (and was this even a positive now?)

vs.

b. Having Wayne stay in Canada and win 3-4 more cups and maybe save some of the Canadian franchises.

Levinson also took a fairly odd tale and made it somewhat compelling (but not as good as the first, IMO).

Arles · 10-21-2009, 01:26 AM

Watched the USFL one tonight and forgot what a shame it was that Trump basically mortgaged the league to try and get in the NFL. It was a good show though and recommend anyone interested in the USFL check it out.

Karlifornia · 10-21-2009, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arles

Watched the USFL one tonight and forgot what a shame it was that Trump basically mortgaged the league to try and get in the NFL. It was a good show though and recommend anyone interested in the USFL check it out.

Yeah. It was awesome when he showed the $3 check to Trump. Trump hates being called on his screwups.

cuervo72 · 10-21-2009, 08:19 AM

I thought about making a thread on the USFL one. Really liked the USFL as a kid, of course I was in Philly, so it was nice having a pro team that was the best in the league at a time when the Eagles were really, really struggling (losing, getting blacked out, rumored to be moving to Arizona). Seeing old clips was nice, but the whole hour had a depressing undercurrent.

I was half expecting Trump to rip the check up.

Galaril · 10-21-2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I thought about making a thread on the USFL one. Really liked the USFL as a kid, of course I was in Philly, so it was nice having a pro team that was the best in the league at a time when the Eagles were really, really struggling (losing, getting blacked out, rumored to be moving to Arizona). Seeing old clips was nice, but the whole hour had a depressing undercurrent.

I was half expecting Trump to rip the check up.

Yeah, I also thought it was real depressing had a Mike Moore sort of feel to it film style I mean. And yeah I also forgot how much fun the league was to watch and how trampy the cheerleaders were great for a 15 year old kid

Galaril · 10-21-2009, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

Yeah. It was awesome when he showed the $3 check to Trump. Trump hates being called on his screwups.

That was awesome I loved how he reacted "ohh yeah we're done here" . I bet Trump watched the video and kicked his cat after

Galaril · 10-21-2009, 12:36 PM

After seeing the USFL one I forgot that the USFL had drawn pretty decent attendance figures the first two seasons in the spring. They also had some real good talent and it was a hell of an exciting game compared to the "No Fun League".I am not expecting the UFL since they are picking some real odd places to place teams mostly to avoid competing with the NFL teams.
I am wondering though if the USFL was to come back or something like it and played in the late winter end of Feb to beginning May if it would do alright provided it had the money to sustain the league for awhile and like the USFL could draw some of the top players. The USFL signed each Heisman trophy winner in each year they were in existence, that is real amazing. Could you imagine Tebow, McCoy, Stafford, Clausen,Bradford,etc signing with the UFL? I can't. Also, with it looking more and more like a possbily strike coming up in 2011 in the NFL there could be a window of opportunity for a new start up spring league.

Captain2711 · 10-21-2009, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaril

After seeing the USFL one I forgot that the USFL had drawn pretty decent attendance figures the first two seasons in the spring. They also had some real good talent and it was a hell of an exciting game compared to the "No Fun League".I am not expecting the UFL since they are picking some real odd places to place teams mostly to avoid competing with the NFL teams.
I am wondering though if the USFL was to come back or something like it and played in the late winter end of Feb to beginning May if it would do alright provided it had the money to sustain the league for awhile and like the USFL could draw some of the top players. The USFL signed each Heisman trophy winner in each year they were in existence, that is real amazing. Could you imagine Tebow, McCoy, Stafford, Clausen,Bradford,etc signing with the UFL? I can't. Also, with it looking more and more like a possbily strike coming up in 2011 in the NFL there could be a window of opportunity for a new start up spring league.

I doubt any league could compete with the NFL anymore just because now they let underclassmen declare early and rookies get extreme paychecks which wasn't always the case. I doubt any new franchise could have given Stafford the money he got from Detroit. Maybe a league could develop undrafted talent and or keep around mid-aged veterans for a higher dollar than the NFL minimum.

Arles · 10-21-2009, 03:02 PM

I think you'd have to have a "college+" style of game. Maybe run a lot of college-style offenses (spread, wildcat, maybe even the option) with some gimmicky 4-6 style defenses. Then, you could go after the Pat White-type QBs and offer them decent money and a QB position - as well as specific linemen who may not be drafted until late because their either too big/slow for pass protection (but can play the option/wildcat) or too small for the running game (but could play OL for a spread offense). The NFL often wants guys good at everything, so I think enough "specialists" would be out there to make some decent teams. Some HBs wouldn't need to worry about pass protections, OL could just focus on mostly running/spread/option and you could look for blocking WRs or simply speed guys with questionable hands.

Your angle would be more of a regional player/style game that build on the top programs around that around. Maybe a team in Texas would run a spread offense and use linemen from UT, Texas Tech and Oklahoma. While a team from Georgia may run more wildcat and get SEC linemen who wouldn't be drafted top 4 rounds and some good backs. Then, the appeal would be you could go see a Texas Tech QB play will some big 12 linemen on a Texas team - as well as a Arkansas HB play with Georgia/Alabama linemen on a Georgia team.

You could get some fan interest as they would know a lot of the local guys and there'd be some "regional bragging rights" of sorts. Even if you just played a style for that region and got players from around the nation, I still think there would be some appeal.

cuervo72 · 10-21-2009, 03:10 PM

Isn't that what the AAFL is attempting?

molson · 10-21-2009, 03:23 PM

I don't think fringe leagues can compete with the major leagues selling only the sport, no matter how good the sport is.

The major leagues have histories, storylines, traditions, prestige over decades. You can't compete with that by throwing a bunch of players on the field with unfamiliar team names and a few rules tweaks.

A fringe league needs to find a hook, and I think one way to do it is have some kind of territorial rights. For example, a Florida franchise could have automatic rights to all players to played at Florida colleges, or who spent the majority of the pro career with a Florida franchise. I don't think you can really expect Florida football fans to get behind the "Florida Tuskers" composed of randomly distributed players, and no history, when you know that the league could fold at any time and even if it doesn't, there's no or little continuity of rosters from year to year.

But if the franchise is filled with Gators, and Seminoles, and Hurricanes, and former Dolphins - maybe the Florida fans pay more attention.

Galaril · 10-21-2009, 03:56 PM

Some good thought son the other league stuff. I don't have any ideajust thought throw i out there to see what others thought.

lynchjm24 · 11-11-2009, 08:02 PM

The Greek movie was interesting last night. I didn't know that he avoided 2 planes that crashed, that's nuts.

DaddyTorgo · 11-11-2009, 08:03 PM

i've found them sorta hit n miss depending on my interest in the subject

Bigsmooth · 11-11-2009, 08:20 PM

Really enjoyed the Len Bias one. The bits and pieces that I had heard over the years about the Bias tragedy were mostly wrong. The doc also really details the cocaine craze of the early/mid eighties and how Len's death was similar to Magic getting AID's in that the events truly changed people's perceptions.

RainMaker · 11-11-2009, 09:29 PM

They've been hit-or-miss which is expected given the broad range of makers involved. I did really enjoy the Jimmy the Greek one last night and I learned a lot. Thought the Bias one was a little vanilla and didn't offer anything new. The Ali-Holmes was phenomenal. And while I liked the USFL one, I thought it came across more as a hit piece on Trump than anything else. The Gretzky one sucked.

CU Tiger · 11-11-2009, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

They've been hit-or-miss which is expected given the broad range of makers involved. I did really enjoy the Jimmy the Greek one last night and I learned a lot. Thought the Bias one was a little vanilla and didn't offer anything new. The Ali-Holmes was phenomenal. And while I liked the USFL one, I thought it came across more as a hit piece on Trump than anything else. The Gretzky one sucked.

+1
especially JTG...found it real interesting...
I think Len Bias was as decent as it could be without crossing into the unspeakable

sabotai · 11-11-2009, 11:29 PM

I keep missing some of these, but I've liked the ones I've seen so far. USFL, Ali-Holmes and the first half of Jimmy The Greek. Missed the Gretzky and Bias ones.

Senator · 12-15-2009, 07:38 PM

The U was a really good one. Loved the talent, the guys still come across goofy. Glad that some of them are off the national stage.

lynchjm24 · 12-15-2009, 08:40 PM

I caught up on a few of the first ones. The Baltimore Band one was better then I anticipated. Not sure when I'll have the patience to sit through 2 hours of the the U. I saw about 10 minutes of it while it was on and it doesn't seem like it's needs 2 hours.

Senator · 12-16-2009, 04:30 PM

It does when it goes back through some of the big games you might have forgotten, depending on your age.

Karlifornia · 12-16-2009, 04:34 PM

I watched most of 'The U'. Two thoughts:

-Did Bernie Kosar have a stroke, or did he always talk like that?

-I have that freaking "It's all about The U! It's all about the U!" song stuck in my head.

Scoobz0202 · 06-03-2010, 08:31 PM

You guys like the Ricky Williams one? About halfway through it and I am absolutely enthralled.

RainMaker · 06-03-2010, 08:50 PM

I loved it. Completely changed my view of Ricky.

Senator · 06-03-2010, 08:52 PM

It was a good one, considering I thought I knew him well, going to my school and all.

digamma · 06-03-2010, 10:14 PM

I've caught up on a lot of these recently. My favorite so far is The Guru of Go. I also really liked the Reggie Miller vs. the Knicks, in part because it is such a non-story and the filmmaker made it really captivating.

Least favorite is Fantasy baseball, by far. Who ever told them it was a good idea to dramatize a documentary?

johnnyshaka · 06-03-2010, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

I watched most of 'The U'. Two thoughts:

-Did Bernie Kosar have a stroke, or did he always talk like that?

-I have that freaking "It's all about The U! It's all about the U!" song stuck in my head.

Just watched this one last night...those teams certainly had some personalities on them and I'm not surprised by all the drama that followed them around...man, that was one heck of a collection of cocky bastards!

albionmoonlight · 06-04-2010, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digamma

Least favorite is Fantasy baseball, by far. Who ever told them it was a good idea to dramatize a documentary?

+1. The film with one of the most inherently interesting subjects felt the need to go the most over-the-top with the dramatization. It didn't work at all.

korme · 06-04-2010, 12:01 PM

I loved the story about fantasy baseball! What a great thing. If I told 12 of my closest friends I had some fantasy idea and we could form a league, they wouldn't give me the time of day. This, of course, is because there are millions of things to do in 2010. Not so much in 1980.

Subby · 06-04-2010, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by korme

I loved the story about fantasy baseball! What a great thing. If I told 12 of my closest friends I had some fantasy idea and we could form a league, they wouldn't give me the time of day. This, of course, is because there are millions of things to do in 2010. Not so much in 1980.

Yeah it would be weird if more people played fantasy now than in the 1980s. THERE IS SO MUCH COOL STUFF TO DO.

Karlifornia · 06-04-2010, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subby

Yeah it would be weird if more people played fantasy now than in the 1980s. THERE IS SO MUCH COOL STUFF TO DO.

lol

NewIdentity · 06-05-2010, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

+1. The film with one of the most inherently interesting subjects felt the need to go the most over-the-top with the dramatization. It didn't work at all.

Worst Episode Ever. .....CBG

I didn't like the way no one mentioned any of the old Stat games that were already in place and were probably the buiding blocks for their league. And, I hated the fact that they never got into the whole MLBPA rights to use players names in their games, but were upset that people were not required to give them royalties for starting their own fantasy leagues.

Turned out to be a 1 hour bitch and moan story from old men that were mad at themselves for not doing more with their big Idea.

Radii · 06-19-2010, 10:10 PM

I just watched the latest documentary, entitled "June 17th, 1994". Best one I've seen yet. The OJ chase is one of those "I remember where I was" events, and I was out of the country at the time and had not seen much of this footage before ever. Its also ridiculous to me to think about all of the other things that were going on during the same day. I loved the way this documentary was done with no interviews, just an extended timeline of everything that was happening that day. So surreal.

Also for the podcast people and for those who don't hate Bill Simmons, he's interviewed a number of the directors, including the guy who did this most recent one in a separate 30 for 30 podcast that's available on itunes:

ESPN: 30 for 30 with Bill Simmons - Download free podcast episodes by ESPN on iTunes.

Alan T · 06-19-2010, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii

I just watched the latest documentary, entitled "June 17th, 1994". Best one I've seen yet. The OJ chase is one of those "I remember where I was" events, and I was out of the country at the time and had not seen much of this footage before ever. Its also ridiculous to me to think about all of the other things that were going on during the same day. I loved the way this documentary was done with no interviews, just an extended timeline of everything that was happening that day. So surreal.

Also for the podcast people and for those who don't hate Bill Simmons, he's interviewed a number of the directors, including the guy who did this most recent one in a separate 30 for 30 podcast that's available on itunes:

ESPN: 30 for 30 with Bill Simmons - Download free podcast episodes by ESPN on iTunes.

I remember where I was that day too.

In Clearwater, Florida, helping my Grandmother bury my Uncle. Was in some local motel on the beach there watching the OJ chase when it occured.

k0ruptr · 06-19-2010, 11:03 PM

I just watched the Guro of Go and man oh man that one was awesome. Can't wait to see some of newer ones they have coming out. This was a great idea by espn.

10-06-2009, 09:26 AM	#2
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	cool. might check some of them out __________________ If I've ever helped you and you'd like to buy me a coffee, or just to say thanks, I have my Bitcoin and Ethereum addressed listed below :) BTC: bc1qykhsfyn9vw4ntqfgr0svj4n9tjdgufryh2pxn5 ETH: 0x2AcdC5cd88EA537063553F5b240073bE067BaCa9

10-06-2009, 09:28 AM	#4
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	The whole thing looks very cool, I'll be checking it out. Here's Bill Simmons patting himself on the back a little bit for the idea, and some other background: ESPN 30 for 30 Last edited by molson : 10-06-2009 at 09:28 AM.

10-06-2009, 09:29 AM	#5
Ronnie Dobbs2 Pro Rookie Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Bahston Mass	I think that, despite the Simmons-douchiness, it's going to be great. That is, so long as ESPN keeps their hands off and lets the directors do their work. __________________ There's no I in Teamocil, at least not where you'd think

10-13-2009, 09:28 PM	#15
BishopMVP Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Concord, MA/UMass	The big story that has a lot of potential for new angles in my eyes is the one on U Miami done by the Cocaine Cowboys guys. Having the first one on Gretzky was a really strange choice to lead off the series imo - he's not really that prominent a sports figure today, but more importantly what was the hook supposed to be? If you wanted to do "celebrity athlete comes to LA" Beckham would be much more relevant (and probably interesting). Last edited by BishopMVP : 10-13-2009 at 09:29 PM.

10-14-2009, 12:32 AM	#16
Arles Grey Dog Software Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL	I enjoyed the first two and can't wait for the one on the USFL next. Given the Favre-fest, mind-numbing ESPN programming I have seen lately - this is a welcome change. For the Gretzky one, I really liked that it showed that both Peter Pocklington and Gretzky as still conflicted to this day on the trade. On one hand, Pocklington said he had immediate second thoughts and tried to offer a contract to Wayne at the last minute to stay - yet on the other hand he would do the deal again. For Wayne, he basically admits he probably would have won 4 more cups, insinuates it may have been better to go to a different team (Detroit was mentioned once), but says at the end it was the right move. I like Berg's work and I think he did a great job of showing the angst that went with this trade from all angles and depicting the "scylla and charybdis" of: a. helping to build the NHL in western America (and was this even a positive now?) vs. b. Having Wayne stay in Canada and win 3-4 more cups and maybe save some of the Canadian franchises. Levinson also took a fairly odd tale and made it somewhat compelling (but not as good as the first, IMO). __________________ Developer of Bowl Bound College Football http://www.greydogsoftware.com

10-06-2009, 09:27 AM	#3
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	DVR has been set. Simmons has been pimping it very hard (he's involved) but I'm sure I'll like it anyway.

10-06-2009, 09:32 AM	#6
Radii Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	I'm definitely looking forward to it. I'm not a hockey fan at all but I'll give the first one a shot anyway. There's one on Len Bias and one on Steve Bartman, I am very much looking forward to those two specifically.

10-06-2009, 10:13 AM	#7
Dr. Sak Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Stuck in Yinzerville, PA	Heh they took that idea (about the Gretzky trade) right off the NHL Network. They aired to story behind it last year since it was the anniversary.

10-06-2009, 10:24 AM	#8
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	I'm pretty sure a good amount of it has been in development for about two years, but even still, it's ESPN...I'd say there's a 1% chance anyone over there is paying attention to something that the NHL Network is airing.

10-07-2009, 12:51 AM	#9
RainMaker General Manager Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	Big fan of Berg's work and big fan of documentaries in general. But this just didn't do much for me. It came across slow and plodded through the story. It also didn't offer up much stuff that we don't already know. I was expecting a unique angle on the trade, but what I saw was a generic puffi piece that I've seen done a million times. Hopefully the next one is better.

10-13-2009, 08:15 PM	#10
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	A little more than halfway through tonight's "The Band That Wouldn't Die" which is about the old Baltimore Colts marching band that continued to play despite not having a team, with the hopes of bringing a new team back to the city. Not sure if it's because I knew nothing about the story beforehand, but I'm enjoying this much more than the Gretzky one.

10-13-2009, 08:26 PM	#11
JS19 College Prospect Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: NY	Worth watching? I was 100% disappointed with the Gretzky one, so with my disappointment from last week, and the fact that I really have no interest in a marching band, I decided to skip this one, have it dvr'ed though.

10-13-2009, 08:32 PM	#12
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	I was the same way on both and only put it on because I had some time to kill, and am glad I did.

10-13-2009, 08:56 PM	#13
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Barry Levinson did a good job with the Colts Band piece tonight, but he usually brings a pretty good game. A lot of Baltimore/Maryland references in there for any insiders, too.

10-13-2009, 09:15 PM	#14
kcchief19 Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Kansas City, MO	Yes, the Colts doc was much better than the Gretzky. That said, I don't think it's Barry Levinson's best work but it was more than a recitation of facts and rehashing of an old story that Berg did. I like the nontraditional interview style of the series, but occasionally it gets distracting. As usual with documentaries, I think the least told stories will be the best to watch.

10-21-2009, 01:26 AM	#17
Arles Grey Dog Software Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL	Watched the USFL one tonight and forgot what a shame it was that Trump basically mortgaged the league to try and get in the NFL. It was a good show though and recommend anyone interested in the USFL check it out. __________________ Developer of Bowl Bound College Football http://www.greydogsoftware.com

10-21-2009, 08:19 AM	#19
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	I thought about making a thread on the USFL one. Really liked the USFL as a kid, of course I was in Philly, so it was nice having a pro team that was the best in the league at a time when the Eagles were really, really struggling (losing, getting blacked out, rumored to be moving to Arizona). Seeing old clips was nice, but the whole hour had a depressing undercurrent. I was half expecting Trump to rip the check up. __________________ null

10-21-2009, 12:36 PM	#22
Galaril Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2004	After seeing the USFL one I forgot that the USFL had drawn pretty decent attendance figures the first two seasons in the spring. They also had some real good talent and it was a hell of an exciting game compared to the "No Fun League".I am not expecting the UFL since they are picking some real odd places to place teams mostly to avoid competing with the NFL teams. I am wondering though if the USFL was to come back or something like it and played in the late winter end of Feb to beginning May if it would do alright provided it had the money to sustain the league for awhile and like the USFL could draw some of the top players. The USFL signed each Heisman trophy winner in each year they were in existence, that is real amazing. Could you imagine Tebow, McCoy, Stafford, Clausen,Bradford,etc signing with the UFL? I can't. Also, with it looking more and more like a possbily strike coming up in 2011 in the NFL there could be a window of opportunity for a new start up spring league.

10-21-2009, 03:02 PM	#24
Arles Grey Dog Software Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL	I think you'd have to have a "college+" style of game. Maybe run a lot of college-style offenses (spread, wildcat, maybe even the option) with some gimmicky 4-6 style defenses. Then, you could go after the Pat White-type QBs and offer them decent money and a QB position - as well as specific linemen who may not be drafted until late because their either too big/slow for pass protection (but can play the option/wildcat) or too small for the running game (but could play OL for a spread offense). The NFL often wants guys good at everything, so I think enough "specialists" would be out there to make some decent teams. Some HBs wouldn't need to worry about pass protections, OL could just focus on mostly running/spread/option and you could look for blocking WRs or simply speed guys with questionable hands. Your angle would be more of a regional player/style game that build on the top programs around that around. Maybe a team in Texas would run a spread offense and use linemen from UT, Texas Tech and Oklahoma. While a team from Georgia may run more wildcat and get SEC linemen who wouldn't be drafted top 4 rounds and some good backs. Then, the appeal would be you could go see a Texas Tech QB play will some big 12 linemen on a Texas team - as well as a Arkansas HB play with Georgia/Alabama linemen on a Georgia team. You could get some fan interest as they would know a lot of the local guys and there'd be some "regional bragging rights" of sorts. Even if you just played a style for that region and got players from around the nation, I still think there would be some appeal. __________________ Developer of Bowl Bound College Football http://www.greydogsoftware.com Last edited by Arles : 10-21-2009 at 03:03 PM.

10-21-2009, 03:10 PM	#25
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	Isn't that what the AAFL is attempting? __________________ null

10-21-2009, 03:23 PM	#26
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	I don't think fringe leagues can compete with the major leagues selling only the sport, no matter how good the sport is. The major leagues have histories, storylines, traditions, prestige over decades. You can't compete with that by throwing a bunch of players on the field with unfamiliar team names and a few rules tweaks. A fringe league needs to find a hook, and I think one way to do it is have some kind of territorial rights. For example, a Florida franchise could have automatic rights to all players to played at Florida colleges, or who spent the majority of the pro career with a Florida franchise. I don't think you can really expect Florida football fans to get behind the "Florida Tuskers" composed of randomly distributed players, and no history, when you know that the league could fold at any time and even if it doesn't, there's no or little continuity of rosters from year to year. But if the franchise is filled with Gators, and Seminoles, and Hurricanes, and former Dolphins - maybe the Florida fans pay more attention.

10-21-2009, 03:56 PM	#27
Galaril Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2004	Some good thought son the other league stuff. I don't have any ideajust thought throw i out there to see what others thought.

11-11-2009, 08:02 PM	#28
lynchjm24 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hartford	The Greek movie was interesting last night. I didn't know that he avoided 2 planes that crashed, that's nuts.

11-11-2009, 08:03 PM	#29
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	i've found them sorta hit n miss depending on my interest in the subject __________________ If I've ever helped you and you'd like to buy me a coffee, or just to say thanks, I have my Bitcoin and Ethereum addressed listed below :) BTC: bc1qykhsfyn9vw4ntqfgr0svj4n9tjdgufryh2pxn5 ETH: 0x2AcdC5cd88EA537063553F5b240073bE067BaCa9

11-11-2009, 08:20 PM	#30
Bigsmooth College Prospect Join Date: Dec 2006	Really enjoyed the Len Bias one. The bits and pieces that I had heard over the years about the Bias tragedy were mostly wrong. The doc also really details the cocaine craze of the early/mid eighties and how Len's death was similar to Magic getting AID's in that the events truly changed people's perceptions.

11-11-2009, 09:29 PM	#31
RainMaker General Manager Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	They've been hit-or-miss which is expected given the broad range of makers involved. I did really enjoy the Jimmy the Greek one last night and I learned a lot. Thought the Bias one was a little vanilla and didn't offer anything new. The Ali-Holmes was phenomenal. And while I liked the USFL one, I thought it came across more as a hit piece on Trump than anything else. The Gretzky one sucked.

11-11-2009, 11:29 PM	#33
sabotai General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Satellite of Love	I keep missing some of these, but I've liked the ones I've seen so far. USFL, Ali-Holmes and the first half of Jimmy The Greek. Missed the Gretzky and Bias ones.

12-15-2009, 07:38 PM	#34
Senator FOFC's Elected Representative Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The stars at night; are big and bright	The U was a really good one. Loved the talent, the guys still come across goofy. Glad that some of them are off the national stage. __________________ "i have seen chris simms play 4-5 times in the pros and he's very clearly got it. he won't make a pro bowl this year, but it'll come. if you don't like me saying that, so be it, but its true. we'll just have to wait until then" imettrentgreen "looking at only ten games, and oddly using a median only, leaves me unmoved generally" - Quiksand

12-15-2009, 08:40 PM	#35
lynchjm24 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hartford	I caught up on a few of the first ones. The Baltimore Band one was better then I anticipated. Not sure when I'll have the patience to sit through 2 hours of the the U. I saw about 10 minutes of it while it was on and it doesn't seem like it's needs 2 hours.

12-16-2009, 04:30 PM	#36
Senator FOFC's Elected Representative Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The stars at night; are big and bright	It does when it goes back through some of the big games you might have forgotten, depending on your age. __________________ "i have seen chris simms play 4-5 times in the pros and he's very clearly got it. he won't make a pro bowl this year, but it'll come. if you don't like me saying that, so be it, but its true. we'll just have to wait until then" imettrentgreen "looking at only ten games, and oddly using a median only, leaves me unmoved generally" - Quiksand

12-16-2009, 04:34 PM	#37
Karlifornia Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: San Jose, CA	I watched most of 'The U'. Two thoughts: -Did Bernie Kosar have a stroke, or did he always talk like that? -I have that freaking "It's all about The U! It's all about the U!" song stuck in my head. __________________ Look into the mind of a crazy man (NSFW) http://www.whitepowerupdate.wordpress.com

06-03-2010, 08:31 PM	#38
Scoobz0202 Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dayton, Ohio	You guys like the Ricky Williams one? About halfway through it and I am absolutely enthralled.

06-03-2010, 08:50 PM	#39
RainMaker General Manager Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	I loved it. Completely changed my view of Ricky.

06-03-2010, 08:52 PM	#40
Senator FOFC's Elected Representative Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The stars at night; are big and bright	It was a good one, considering I thought I knew him well, going to my school and all. __________________ "i have seen chris simms play 4-5 times in the pros and he's very clearly got it. he won't make a pro bowl this year, but it'll come. if you don't like me saying that, so be it, but its true. we'll just have to wait until then" imettrentgreen "looking at only ten games, and oddly using a median only, leaves me unmoved generally" - Quiksand

06-03-2010, 10:14 PM	#41
digamma Torchbearer Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: On Lake Harriet	I've caught up on a lot of these recently. My favorite so far is The Guru of Go. I also really liked the Reggie Miller vs. the Knicks, in part because it is such a non-story and the filmmaker made it really captivating. Least favorite is Fantasy baseball, by far. Who ever told them it was a good idea to dramatize a documentary?