Mixed Martial Arts Thread (UFC and others)

[Travis]

I can't help but think that Anderson will have to face Vitor next (assuming Silva succussfully defends) which'd potentially mean another GSP/Fitch fight or maybe GSP/Penn III if Penn dominates at the next PPV.

I'm also quite curious to see if the lack of high level potential next opponents may make GSP that much more likely to explore the Olympic wrestling idea. The only allure of fighting Penn again would be to put the grease angle to bed if it bothers him at all, but past that, if he's not moving up I'm not sure what can continue to force him to improve.

That said, I think a move up, where he may not be able to physically dominate as much could make him a more dangerous fighter as he'll likely be forced to look for more ways to end fights, especially on the feet, which could be the best thing to happen to him development wise.

[PilotMan]

GSP's fights are boring because he is not being challenged. It's not about how he fights, it's about his incredible level of domination. It's like watching a 100-2 basketball game. It's not enjoyable.

[B & B]

Agree with Pilotman, most GSP fights are snoozefests.


If youre a former wrestler/grappler or a diehard which comprises less than 1% of the audience maybe he seems 'sublime' or tactically magnificent. I get it. Really, I do. For the other 99% of the MMA fans its boring. This is a business that fills seats, sells merchandise and rings up PPV. Entertain the masses. That includes the pasty 300lb white kid from Ohio wearing an Affliction shirt.

Hardy had little to no chance coming in, the fight sucked.

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

GSP's fights are boring because he is not being challenged. It's not about how he fights, it's about his incredible level of domination. It's like watching a 100-2 basketball game. It's not enjoyable.

This I can agree with. What I disagree with are those that say his fights are boring because he "Lays n Prays". Despite the fact that he is always working from the top and working for subs and trying (and succeeding) to improve his position.

[Calis]

Well the problem with GSP that can come across as "boring" is that he's so positionally focused now. He's maybe the best ever in the sport at it, but the problem is he puts himself into dominate positions that are not conducive to striking. Hardy wasn't going to tap, and he was doing a good job defending, so basically you end up with GSP dominating positionally, but not doing any real damage.

That's why Jackson was yelling at him between rounds to not pass, he wanted him to stay in the guard and work some strikes. If he'd done that, he'd probably have finished the fight.

His wrestling and position game is phenomenal, but I ended up being more impressed with Hardy at the end of this one than I was with GSP.

I really don't think GSP will do a fight at 185, unless he takes another year or more off to really put on the muscle. Otherwise he loses a ton of what makes him great. Personally I don't see it happening, and am not that interested in it.

Carwin looked scary. I'm really excited to see him fight Lesnar, and I hope we get to see Dos Santos vs. Velasquez for a #1 contender as well. Those should both be great fights. Really surprised how long it took to stop the Carwin/Mir fight as well, and was annoyed at some of the breaks through the night in general.

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by Newark MMA Fan

booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

God I hope they never go back there for a show. Stay home and watch SNL instead.

[dervack]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

God I hope they never go back there for a show. Stay home and watch SNL instead.

A few days late to the party, but I love how they booed an earlier fight with Fitch and Saunders that was on the ground, with strikes being thrown repeatedly and Dan Mirgliotta stood the fight up, but I heard less booing in the GSP fight and he was far more inactive that the other fight. WTF?

[Dutch]

I'm not sure when this is airing in the states so I'm not going to say much. UFC 112 has concluded.

Spoiler

So BJ Penn is upset after playing defense the entire fight against Frankie Edgar. What a boring fight. Then...if things weren't bad enough, Anderson Silva clowns Damian Maia for 3 rounds and then stops fighting altogether...at one point the ref threatens to take a point if Anderson keeps running from his opponent...he spent the entire fight trying to be disrespectful....the crowds were chanting either "Maia" repeatedly or "GSP" repeatedly, and boo'ed Anderson during his entire post-fight interview. It was a disaster.

UFC main events are becoming a joke. Nobody is hungry and everybody is scared at that level. I guess the lower levels are more fun to watch because there is more aggression.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I'm not sure when this is airing in the states so I'm not going to say much. UFC 112 has concluded.

Spoiler

So BJ Penn is upset after playing defense the entire fight against Frankie Edgar. What a boring fight. Then...if things weren't bad enough, Anderson Silva clowns Damian Maia for 3 rounds and then stops fighting altogether...at one point the ref threatens to take a point if Anderson keeps running from his opponent...he spent the entire fight trying to be disrespectful....the crowds were chanting either "Maia" repeatedly or "GSP" repeatedly, and boo'ed Anderson during his entire post-fight interview. It was a disaster.

UFC main events are becoming a joke. Nobody is hungry and everybody is scared at that level. I guess the lower levels are more fun to watch because there is more aggression.

Anderson Silva was a fucking joke tonight, that was one of the most disrespectful, bullshit performances I have ever seen. Dana should never charge for a card he headlines again....ever!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Q: for those who follow more closely than me. Did Maia have any business in the ring with Silva on paper prior to the fight? I mean, the outcome pretty much answers the question of whether he really did but was an easy win for Silva obvious before the fight ever started?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Q: for those who follow more closely than me. Did Maia have any business in the ring with Silva on paper prior to the fight? I mean, the outcome pretty much answers the question of whether he really did but was an easy win for Silva obvious before the fight ever started?

Probably not but there are really no worthy challengers in that division. Maia is a world class Jiu Jitsu practitioner, but nowhere near athletic enough to give Silva trouble, especially on his feet. My problem is Silva did nothing to press the fight as he could have taken him out in 2 round or less IMO.

Instead he chooses to showboat and talk shit and basically just be classless tool. A catchweight fight with GSP is probably his only challenge right now and I hope it happens and GSP stretches him.

[dubb93]

Don't forget that Maia was a replacement for Vitor Belfort. If Vitor lasts past the 2nd round he KOs Anderson tonight.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Probably not and there is a lack of challengers in that division. Maia is a world class Jiu Jitsu practitioner, but nowhere near athletic enough to give Silva trouble, especially on his feet. My problem is Silva did nothing to press the fight as he could have taken him out in 2 round or less IMO.

Thanks, I looked at his career record & fight history but really didn't get much of a sense of what to make of him from that info either.

This kind of leads to what I was wondering in the bigger picture, namely whether MMA (and UFC specifically) may have reached the point where there are simply more events than there are competitive salable matchups to fill even the top of those cards.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

This kind of leads to what I was wondering in the bigger picture, namely whether MMA (and UFC specifically) may have reached the point where there are simply more events than there are competitive salable matchups to fill even the top of those cards.

I think the UFC at the very least, has reached the point where nearly every card has an injury replacement in either the main event or semi final fight. Not sure what they can do to fix that though.

[sovereignstar]

Silva is a fucking disgrace. No respect at all. Not a champion in my eyes. Just a talented guy that barely anyone likes anymore.

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

A catchweight fight with GSP is probably his only challenge right now and I hope it happens and GSP stretches him.

Fuck catchweight. Make that cocky little bitch drop down to 170 and put a belt on the line.

[sovereignstar]

.

Originally Posted by dana white

I don't want to see GSP vs. Silva after tonight. Silva might be the first champion fighting on a prelim. I don't want to see that shit.

[Dutch]

I don't blame him one bit.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Fuck catchweight. Make that cocky little bitch drop down to 170 and put a belt on the line.

LOL, even better, or just release him since he apparently would rather be a fucking Circus act now. I am going to listen to listen to the Dana White presser now, I knew Dana was pissed last night because he always puts the belt on the winner and he wasn't even in the ring after Silva's fight.

One thing I really like about Dana is he doesn't care about being PC when it comes to shit like this and tells it like it is.

[Travis]

Why put him down a weight class where he'd likely gain a size/strength advantage? Put him in with an elite light heavy or even a mid to upper tier true heavy? Silva said he wanted to try and win belts in 4 weight classes, so while I can't imagine he'd buy into going into the HW zone just yet, he's had 2 or 3 fights at light heavy, so put him in with an upper tier LHW with elite striking skills and see how Silva handles that.

GSP is the only one who could give him a fight if he drops a weight class, but why reward him with a shot like that given Silva's recent history fight wise?

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Travis

so put him in with an upper tier LHW with elite striking skills and see how Silva handles that.

Like Forrest Griffin? (sad trumpet noise)

[judicial clerk]

Which LHW would beat Anderson Silva?

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by judicial clerk

Which LHW would beat Anderson Silva?

It's definately a weak class at LHW. Machida would probably just get destroyed and he's the champ.

I don't think anybody can beat him right now. But I think a Silva/Evans or Silva/Jones fight would be fascinating to watch. Maybe even Silva/Jackson. It's tough, Silva is a dominant force right now and I'm not sure GSP could even withstand this guy. But emotions will probably leave Silva out of the picture for a while, so this is just fantasy talk right now.

[judicial clerk]

Good fighters all but I would still give silva the edge in any of those fights. I would have picked Dan Henderson as the guy that could bring down silva, but we know how that went. As long as we are talking fantasy, maybe Fedor and Silva could meet a LHW. Now that is a fight I see Silva losing.

Silva is not young, and eventually he will lose a step and the rest of the field will catch up to him. Or he will suffer an Edgar/Sera type upset. It happens to everybody.

[Dutch]

Well, I think the pisser here is that we all know that Silva is pretty amazing but you're right, pretty soon he will be too old. I think we all want to see him dominate right now before it's too late.

[Travis]

I'd like to see him possibly up against Shogun or the winner of the Rampage/Evans fight. If I could pick the fight myself I'd say put him in with Brock, but yeah, still can't see him jumping all the way to HW.

[dubb93]

Eh, I honestly think Rashad and Shogun would both have a relatively easy time with Silva and I think Rampage would be about an even matchup. Forrest is not now, nor has he ever been a top tier LHW. He simply was on fire on a night that Rampage that off and took the title in a fight you could argue he didn't even deserve(He beat a Shogun that was nowhere near 100% after tearing his knees all to holy hell).

The UFC brass knew that Silva would rip through Forrest when they made the fight, thus why he didn't fight Rampage, Rashad, or Shogun.

I've been wrong before but this is how I see it.

[sovereignstar]

Chael Sonnen will be Spider's next opponent ...

[k0ruptr]

and Dana said if he fuckin clowns around again he will cut him. I hope he sticks to those words.

[JonInMiddleGA]

So let me make sure I've got this straight.

Silva beats a guy with virtually no effort & clowns his way through a fight where he was never in any jeopardy.

Dana gets pissed

In his infinite wisdom Dana decides that the best fight for Silva would be Chael Sonnen ... who got triangled last year in just 2:37 by ... yep, the guy Silva just rang rings around.

Umm ... anybody wanna bet this doesn't end well for anybody?

[DaddyTorgo]

maybe Dana's just looking for a way to give him one last shot before canning him. that way if her perks up you save a good title fight for next...and if he doesn't you can strip him of the belt and cut him and hold a tournament

[Neuqua]

As douchey as Anderson's been, I don't think there's any way Dana can afford to just outright cut him.

[Calis]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

So let me make sure I've got this straight.

Silva beats a guy with virtually no effort & clowns his way through a fight where he was never in any jeopardy.

Dana gets pissed

In his infinite wisdom Dana decides that the best fight for Silva would be Chael Sonnen ... who got triangled last year in just 2:37 by ... yep, the guy Silva just rang rings around.

Umm ... anybody wanna bet this doesn't end well for anybody?

Well to be fair MMA fights aren't apples to appples comparisons. Sonnen was offered the fight first, but it was short notice after he beat Marquardt(He might have even been medically suspended). The Middleweight division is weird now anyone, you had Maia who beat Sonnen quickly but was knocked out brutally by Marquardt who in turn was dominated by Sonnen. It's a mess.

Also, the problem with Maia is he has mediocre takedowns. Sonnen would probably be the best wrestler Silva has faced(I'm discounting Henderson because he doesn't actually use his wrestling often). Maia never really had a chance to get the fight where he wanted it. Sonnen has a chance to do so, I sure as hell wouldn't bet on it but I wouldn't write him off for losing to Maia in a different way. I don't think Sonnen has the standup skills to work his way in for a takedown, but he's a phenomenal wrestler and is on a hell of a streak since losing to Maia.

It's really the only option they have at the weight division except for Belfort, and no idea how long Belfort is out for. Now if they move him out of Middleweight you have a lot more options. Personally I don't want to see him cut to 170, if he even can. I want to see him move up. I think someone with unorthodox striking like Shogun or Jones would make for a good fight.

I can't imagine Dana cutting him though, that's a big catch for Strikeforce or someone else, but that might very well be what Silva is wanting. Silva vs. Fedor or Silva vs. Mousasi would be some great fights to see, or even a rematch with Henderson. I think Dana will try and bury him before cutting him, depending on how the contract is laid out.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

So let me make sure I've got this straight.

Silva beats a guy with virtually no effort & clowns his way through a fight where he was never in any jeopardy.

Dana gets pissed

In his infinite wisdom Dana decides that the best fight for Silva would be Chael Sonnen ... who got triangled last year in just 2:37 by ... yep, the guy Silva just rang rings around.

Umm ... anybody wanna bet this doesn't end well for anybody?

I was thinking about this earlier and what were Dana's options going forward?

1) Cut him - Not likely to happen, too valuable of an asset

2) Put him against somebody who has a shot to beat him - Who would this be, what weight class would it be and would Silva agree to the fight? I'm not sure how much control Silva and Soares have in this area but I'm assuming if you want a fight where Silva is an underdog we're talking a jump to heavyweight (could make an argument for some light heavies as well). Problem with this is that while you're trying to punish Silva, it's also possibly one of the biggest fights in UFC history and a headliner.

3) GSP - Dana flat out said Silva didn't deserve to fight GSP, which also plays a bit into why #2 likely doesn't work as an option at this point either.

4) A fight like Sonnen - Lay the cards on the table to Silva. This is your last chance. If you really want to be known as the best ever, prove it. Take care of this fight the way the best of all time would (ie: quickly and decisively) and if you do, then you'll fight the best of the best (likely what Silva was trying to ask for, albeit in an awfully stupid way) going forward.

So punishment wise you're giving Silva a fight that won't headline a card (I'm assuming, haven't read anything to indicate that) against a guy he should beat. Ball is now in Anderson's court to get back to being a fighter and not a show boat.

I'm assuming a KO win here with no running around means we then get GSP/Silva before seeing Silva potentially move up to light heavy.

That or he repeats his recent MO and Dana cuts him (or gives him the option of facing somebody like Brock, heh).

As much as a lot of people (myself included) would like to see Silva get humbled with a butt kicking, anybody who could likely hand that to him would create the sort of fight that would headline any PPV, so I guess it's not too surprising that that's not the direction they're going.

[judicial clerk]

I don't think dana will cut silva. in fact, Silva has made himself even more sensational and is now kind of a pro-wrestling type heel. I think his marketability has never been higher for selling fights. People will want to see what he will do next.
I have to disagree with shogun, evans, or rampage having an easy time with Silva. hey are all great fighters and all have the potential to beat Silva, but I still would pick Silva. One weight class jump does not mean that much and for a guy who is big and tall in his weight class is not too big of a deal., I think randy couture is an example of both. He jumped up too heavyweight (which is arguable the biggest jump) and did fine

[BYU 14]

The only thing I would argue is how valuble is Silva going to be at the rate he has been going. Skill doesn't determine a fighters value, his ability to but asses in the seats and sell PPV's does. I think it would surprise you how many people aren't going to be keen to pay for another Silva headlined card at this point. Dana has shown he won't take shit from his top guys before with Couture and Tito, and though Silva is obviously a better fighter than either of them, I could see Dana cutting him if he puts on another performance like he did against Maia.

There is no doubt Silva is one of the best pound for pound MMA fighters in the world, the great unknown after three straight sub par efforts is will he fight like it?

The other unfortunate thing is the two best options in terms of guys that could beat Silva (Mousasi and Fedor at 205) are in Strikeforce. GSP is the best UFC option as I have no doubt he can take Silva down, but he would force Silva to be more aggressive with strikes and I don't know if he hangs with him there.

Sorry Dubb, Silva is far too fast for Rampage, especially at distance and Rampage would need a lucky haymaker to win. Evans has better standup tools, but I think Silva makes him look bad with his angles and Muay Thai. The best bet at 205, besides Machida who he will never fight is Rua.

[Flasch186]

it oughta be free.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

it oughta be free.

I think/hope Dana might be leaning towards something like this to make his point and fulfill his promise to make it up to the fans.

[sovereignstar]

Strikeforce tonight, bitches! 3 title fights:

HW: Hendo vs. Jake Shields
LHW: Gegard Mousasi vs. King Mo
LW: Shinya Aoki vs. Gilbert Melendez

8pm central on CBS

[Flasch186]

very excited to see all 3 of those.

[BYU 14]

+1 they should blow away last weekends UFC top 3

[sovereignstar]

god damn it

frustrating fight for a mousasi fan.

[dubb93]

They said Mousasi wanted King Mo to take him down so he could tire King Mo out. Well it seemed to work just backwards, he let King Mo take him down early, and even seemed to pull guard and King Mo just worked him over and wore him out on the ground. Mousasi could do much better than this with a different game plan.

[DeToxRox]

<3 King Mo. Get that man on CSI now.

[Carman Bulldog]

Hopefully now everyone stops riding Mousasi's jock. HIGHLY overrated. Mousasi is just lucky that Strikeforce prohibits elbows to the head of a downed opponent. A few of Mousasi's positions would have been a lot more vulnerable if elbows were allowed and we may have actually had a finish.

[DeToxRox]

Anyone who bitched about Anderson/Maia may want to kill themselves so far with this show.

[Recoil]

USA
USA
USA

[dubb93]

Immediate rematch in Japan? No thanks.

[Carman Bulldog]

And another extremely overrated fighter goes down. Great performance though by Melendez. This is just further evidence of the lack of competition in Japan. I'd really love to see Melendez make the jump up to the UFC for some good bouts with a group that includes Penn, Florian, Maynard and Edgar. I'd much rather see that then something like a fight against the equally overrated Tawajiri. Maybe if they bring in Eddie Alvarez, albeit also overrated, it would be worth watching.

[Neuqua]

Shields looks star struck.