The Trump Presidency – 2016

[JPhillips]

What the absolute fuck

Korean media: Trump asked Kim Jong Un, whom he had called Rocket Man, if he knows the Elton John song Rocket Man, and Kim said no, so Pompeo is bringing Kim the CD, which Trump has autographed. https://t.co/Z1EAg4ZaAM

— Daniel Dale (@ddale8) July 6, 2018

[AlexB]

I’m Trump will see the funny side of this, he’s known for being able to laugh at himself, right?

Giant 'Trump Baby' could fly over London for president's visit - BBC News

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Eh, I didn't say the guy wasn't over the top.

But, as being "fine" goes, I hold him in exponentially higher regard than anyone aligned with the (D). He's shows consistently better judgement & acts far more rationally.

If Trump says "hey, Pelosi is 'fine' " then I'll worry. As is, he's just being honest.

You know I can barely stand politicians with the D by their name neither.

But Trump is a dumpster fire. The party of family values brought in a guy who has none. He represents everything the GOP has traditionally hated. Up until a few years ago, he was a self-professed Dem.

I get not wanting to support the other side. But Trump is not only a valueless, soulless narcissist, he is completely in it for himself and himself alone.

Do like me. Don't support the Dem side OR his idiocy.

[JPhillips]

I don't know if Jordan will survive this OSU wrestling scandal. It sure sounds like everyone knew and did nothing. It seems like some sort of non-consensual sex scandal is a part of B1G membership.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Party of Reagan.

It's now the party of 4chan

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by AlexB

I’m Trump will see the funny side of this, he’s known for being able to laugh at himself, right?

Giant 'Trump Baby' could fly over London for president's visit - BBC News

It is funny and Trump deserves it, but am against it because of the precedence it sets.

[JPhillips]

All of the world's leaders need to be reminded that they can be replaced. People show far too much deference to the powerful. When in doubt, mock the powerful.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

So why do you hold Putin higher then Democrats?

Because he thinks every democrat is send to earth by Satan to destroy the heaven on earth that is America.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Edward64

It is funny and Trump deserves it, but am against it because of the precedence it sets.

Conservatives forget history with Trump effigy outrage | TheHill

40+ Years of Saturday Night Live Presidential Parodies

Primary Colors: A Novel of Politics: Anonymous, Joe Klein: 9780812976472: Amazon.com: Books

Or pretty much any satirical editorial cartoon involving presidents.

Fact of the matter is, rulers, including American presidents and foreign leaders, have always been targets for mockery - whether it's something more serious and steeped in a troubled racial past like Obama effigies or something more light-hearted liked the giant Trump baby.

Delve into the literary world (Primary Colors the first to hand at example) and find more.

There's no new established precedent here. It's part and parcel of a society that has the freedoms to protest and skewer its leadership and the leadership of foreign nations - and even in countries where those freedoms aren't guaranteed, you'll still find an underground culture of similar mockeries - frequently all the more potent because of the repression.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

All of the world's leaders need to be reminded that they can be replaced. People show far too much deference to the powerful. When in doubt, mock the powerful.

I agree. Unfortunately, when it is someone that is supported by the majority of this board, shit hits the fan.

It is a 2 sided coin. Cannot have one without the other.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I don't know if Jordan will survive this OSU wrestling scandal. It sure sounds like everyone knew and did nothing. It seems like some sort of non-consensual sex scandal is a part of B1G membership.

The party ran a pedophile for the US Senate months back. He'll be fine.

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

But Trump is a dumpster fire. The party of family values brought in a guy who has none. He represents everything the GOP has traditionally hated. Up until a few years ago, he was a self-professed Dem.

I think understanding how he was able to co-op the party, all the way to the White House,will be the central question asked for a generation.

Just last night he tells the Law and Order party that the Justice Department, FBI and our electoral process is rotten and worthless. It’s mind boggling, he takes down the fundamental tenants of our country to a cheering crowd of Republicans!

It’s just scary because the only way he can say these things is if the crowd/party believe in him more than the country- which I think they do.

[molson]

Originally Posted by AENeuman

It’s just scary because the only way he can say these things is if the crowd/party believe in him more than the country- which I think they do.

I think Trump could turn the Republican party into a environmentalist socialist party right now if he wanted to.

Or, he could go the other way and invade Canada and nuke Cincinnati and his base would follow him that way too.

Those are only slightly more unlikely examples than turning the party of Reagan into the party of Russia.

Such a fascinating guy and a bizarrely effective leader (in the sense of getting people to follow him).

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by AENeuman

I think understanding how he was able to co-op the party, all the way to the White House,will be the central question asked for a generation.

Just last night he tells the Law and Order party that the Justice Department, FBI and our electoral process is rotten and worthless. It’s mind boggling, he takes down the fundamental tenants of our country to a cheering crowd of Republicans!

It’s just scary because the only way he can say these things is if the crowd/party believe in him more than the country- which I think they do.

I don't think he has changed the party. It's been this way for decades. Trump if anything just dropped the facade that it was about much more than white nationalism, corruption, and helping rich people.

The law and order stuff has always been a farce. Nixon and Reagan both committed treason. The hatred of feds has long been established. Read some of McVeigh's stuff and it's essentially mainstream right rhetoric today. And corruption is nothing new. I mean Pruitt couldn't hold a candle to what Gorsuch did to the EPA in the 80's.

If anything Trump has been more transparent than any previous Republican in what he and his supporters believe.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

I think Trump could turn the Republican party into a environmentalist socialist party right now if he wanted to.

He already turned them far left on trade.

[JPhillips]

It's all true. Jordan on Fox:

Conversations in a locker room are a lot different than allegations of abuse or reported abuse to us

[Thomkal]

Manafort in solitary and locked in a jail cell for 23 hours a day:


Manafort in solitary confinement, lawyers say - CBS News

[cartman]

“I have broken more Elton John records, he seems to have a lot of records. And I, by the way, I don’t have a musical instrument. I don’t have a guitar or an organ. No organ. Elton has an organ. And lots of other people helping. No we’ve broken a lot of records. We’ve broken virtually every record. Because you know, look I only need this space. They need much more room. For basketball, for hockey and all of the sports, they need a lot of room. We don’t need it. We have people in that space. So we break all of these records. Really we do it without like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.”

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by cartman

“I have broken more Elton John records, he seems to have a lot of records. And I, by the way, I don’t have a musical instrument. I don’t have a guitar or an organ. No organ. Elton has an organ. And lots of other people helping. No we’ve broken a lot of records. We’ve broken virtually every record. Because you know, look I only need this space. They need much more room. For basketball, for hockey and all of the sports, they need a lot of room. We don’t need it. We have people in that space. So we break all of these records. Really we do it without like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.”

We need to deport these non English speakers.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by molson

Or, he could go the other way and invade Canada and nuke Cincinnati and his base would follow him that way too.

Hey, you leave Cincinnati out of this!

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by cartman

“I have broken more Elton John records, he seems to have a lot of records. And I, by the way, I don’t have a musical instrument. I don’t have a guitar or an organ. No organ. Elton has an organ. And lots of other people helping. No we’ve broken a lot of records. We’ve broken virtually every record. Because you know, look I only need this space. They need much more room. For basketball, for hockey and all of the sports, they need a lot of room. We don’t need it. We have people in that space. So we break all of these records. Really we do it without like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.”

WTF is that? Is that someone actually talking? It's t-dumb isn't it? ffs, why!?!?!?

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

WTF is that? Is that someone actually talking? It's t-dumb isn't it? ffs, why!?!?!?

That is word for word Trumps speech the other night .... that in itself doesn't scare me as I have figured for a while that he's incoherant .... but people 'cheered' that rambling idiocy ....

[NobodyHere]

I generally like Elton John's music

[JPhillips]

GOP Senator that spent the 4th in Russia now says that maybe we should just lift those sanctions on Russia.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Izulde

There's no new established precedent here. It's part and parcel of a society that has the freedoms to protest and skewer its leadership and the leadership of foreign nations - and even in countries where those freedoms aren't guaranteed, you'll still find an underground culture of similar mockeries - frequently all the more potent because of the repression.

The precedence is a UK ally/mayor mocking a US president in such a visible, public, and childish way.

Its fine if you want to have protests etc. but a baby Trump blimp?

I absolutely understand that its not directed against the US as a country or people, its a personal with the UK Muslim mayor.

Let's put it this way - if Trump was to retaliate and encourage his 38-42% to come up with a blimp to portray the UK mayor as a radical Muslim during a UK royal state visit (only thing I can think of right now that would be somewhat comparable), would that be appropriate?

[Edward64]

CNN has a list of stuff that would be impacted by the US-China trade war.

China-US tariffs: The products targeted by both sides

It seems as if the US will be hurt by increased costs in food & beverages (e.g. we won't export as much) and China will be hurt by vehicles, machinery & related (e.g. we won't buy as much). Don't know what the breakdown is but I don't think this impacts me personally that much.

This is the first salvo, it can get worse I'm sure.

Trump's goal is to reduce the trade deficit and to build more in the US, and I'm certainly supportive of that. If there was a recession, it would be worth it to achieve the stated goals. However, I would feel better if I knew there was a "master 5-year plan" which, deep down, I don't think there is.

[Edward64]

I'm okay with doing DNA testing to make sure we reconnect the kids with the right parents, its beyond the child's "human rights" at this stage re: DNA testing and honestly don't see it as the main issue.

The main issue is the last paragraph, it is shocking how we did this without the proper plan/documentation/rigor to really reconnect parent-and-child.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ocates-n889161

Immigration advocates on Thursday criticized the Trump administration's plan to conduct genetic testing on migrant children and parents separated as a result of its "zero tolerance" policy, saying the move is invasive and raises concerns over what the government might do with the biological data.

The federal government will be conducting the DNA tests — via a cheek swab — for every detained migrant child and then seeing if the DNA matches that of their purported parents, Cmdr. Jonathan White, assistant secretary for preparedness and response at the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), said Thursday morning.

The move to collect DNA also raises serious concerns about consent for the children involved, said Jennifer Falcon, communications director for the immigrants rights group RAICES.

"They’re essentially solving one civil rights issue with another — it’s a gross violation of human rights," she said. "These are minors with no legal guardian to be able to advice on their legal right, not to mention they’re so young how can they consent to their personal information being used in this way?"

She added that the administration's fluctuating numbers on the number of separated children and the DNA testing showed "they did not do intake correctly and did not keep track of who they were separating."

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Edward64

The precedence is a UK ally/mayor mocking a US president in such a visible, public, and childish way.

Its fine if you want to have protests etc. but a baby Trump blimp?

I absolutely understand that its not directed against the US as a country or people, its a personal with the UK Muslim mayor.

Let's put it this way - if Trump was to retaliate and encourage his 38-42% to come up with a blimp to portray the UK mayor as a radical Muslim during a UK royal state visit (only thing I can think of right now that would be somewhat comparable), would that be appropriate?

Provided it was done in a safe manner, yes. It may make the flyer an asshole, but in the U.S. his/her free speech rights would absolutely allow that.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Provided it was done in a safe manner, yes. It may make the flyer an asshole, but in the U.S. his/her free speech rights would absolutely allow that.

Sure I get the free speech part. But to have Trump ask his followers to do it is not appropriate (not to say he wouldn't, it just wouldn't be right).

[JPhillips]

When did Khan ask for his supporters to do this?

And now it seems likely there will be a Khan balloon as well.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

When did Khan ask for his supporters to do this?

And now it seems likely there will be a Khan balloon as well.

No statements from him but he is "allowing" it to happen and the bad history between the two seem to support it. So if not verbally expressed, its implicit.

Yeah, just saw the Khan balloon story. If citizens want to mock their own politician, that's free speech. If citizens from another country want to mock a politician from another country, that's still free speech but doesn't mean its appropriate.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I'm okay with doing DNA testing to make sure we reconnect the kids with the right parents, its beyond the child's "human rights" at this stage re: DNA testing and honestly don't see it as the main issue.

The main issue is the last paragraph, it is shocking how we did this without the proper plan/documentation/rigor to really reconnect parent-and-child.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ocates-n889161

A leader with no empathy, leads with no empathy, plans with no empathy, acts with no empathy. How can you possibly be surprised?

[JPhillips]

So we can't mock Kim Jong Un?

edit: A better phrasing is "we shouldn't mock"

[PilotMan]

How, just how, is the whole Bill Shine conversation not at the top of the Trump conversation list, and list any other president, literally, any other, who could have gotten away with that?

[JPhillips]

World's greatest negotiator...

“The results of the talks are extremely worrisome,” the statement by an unnamed foreign ministry official reads.

While Pyongyang had hoped the United States would “come up with constructive measures to help build confidence” and sought “balanced implementation” of the June 12 DPRK-U.S. agreement, it continued, the American negotiators had demanded unilateral nuclear disarmament.

“What the U.S. is requesting is the cancerous demands from previous administrations that blocked all dialogue processes,” the statement said, arguing that a phased, step-by-step approach would be the “fastest way to realize the denuclearization of the Korean peninsula.”

https://www.nknews.org/2018/07/north...prk-u-s-talks/

[PilotMan]

How long before NK does exactly what NK does every single time, and we get to watch t-dumb try and say he never said that he solved the NK crisis and made the world safe again?



https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...-un/765232002/

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

So we can't mock Kim Jong Un?

edit: A better phrasing is "we shouldn't mock"

I don't think I said that.

If the crazy kid visits the US, Trump should certainly not ask his supporters to mock the crazy kid.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

A leader with no empathy, leads with no empathy, plans with no empathy, acts with no empathy. How can you possibly be surprised?

I do blame Trump for the policy/directive of separating the kids. However, the folks on the ground executing this policy is at fault.

If Trump said do it, the people on the ground should have done it with thought to eventually reconnect parent-to-child without DNA testing.

[JPhillips]

Again, where did Khan ask for this? He provided a permit.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Again, where did Khan ask for this? He provided a permit.

If I found evidence that Khan did ask/suggest this, would it change your mind?

If yes, I'll dig and see if I can find something. If no, then not really a needed question?

[JPhillips]

You're using that as the reason why it's wrong, and there's no evidence he asked people to do this. It would put Khan in a much worse light if he planned this and then approved it.

But, yes, in the U.S. I would still put the first amendment over the feelings of the powerful.

This guy makes some good points:

Can you post some links where this is happening and no action was taken to correct it?

If you have better research that tells you why, link it.

Why don't you pick a couple and quote some significant passages from them for everyone here to react to vs. the more general, presumptive statements.

Oh dear, here we ago again with not answering the question.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I do blame Trump for the policy/directive of separating the kids. However, the folks on the ground executing this policy is at fault.

If Trump said do it, the people on the ground should have done it with thought to eventually reconnect parent-to-child without DNA testing.

No. Just No. You're removing the responsibility of the policy from the person who put it in place. Leaders don't just throw the bones of policy and law out and then tell the people on the ground "you figure it out."



No, this is exactly what happens when proper laws, and actions are not thought out and planned. It's the kind of thing that takes a great deal of forethought and planning. t-dumb isn't that kind of leader though. People love his leap before look and off the cuff mentality and the result is exactly what you see here.



This is all on him, and his administration. None of this started happening before he directed Justice to do it. Even his EO supposedly ending the policy was hastily written with no real plan of execution. If you leave it to the people on the ground, you end up with 500 different plans, programs and executions. No administrator would choose that as a good outcome.



The blame lies in the no-direction, lack of foresight, lack of empathy leadership that occupies the WH this very moment.

[cuervo72]

I'm surprised Roger Waters isn't personally flying a Trump balloon.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

You're using that as the reason why it's wrong, and there's no evidence he asked people to do this. It would put Khan in a much worse light if he planned this and then approved it.

But, yes, in the U.S. I would still put the first amendment over the feelings of the powerful.

This guy makes some good points:

You are right, I don't see evidence that he asked UK people to do it. I did say

No statements from him but he is "allowing" it to happen and the bad history between the two seem to support it. So if not verbally expressed, its implicit.

It's just not beyond belief that he supported/encouraged it. I just don't think its appropriate.

[Edward64]

Thanks, I appreciate you giving me some kudos.

My statement in the prior post which I quoted for your benefit qualified my statement re: #1-3 below.

I don't think #4 is fair though.

This guy makes some good points:

Quote:
Can you post some links where this is happening and no action was taken to correct it?

Quote:
If you have better research that tells you why, link it.

Quote:
Why don't you pick a couple and quote some significant passages from them for everyone here to react to vs. the more general, presumptive statements.

Quote:
Oh dear, here we ago again with not answering the question.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

No. Just No. You're removing the responsibility of the policy from the person who put it in place. Leaders don't just throw the bones of policy and law out and then tell the people on the ground "you figure it out."

I fully blame Trump for the policy. His policy was to separate kids from parents. His policy was not do it without a way to reconnect them without DNA. That was poorly executed by whoever was in charge of execution.

Leaders do throw bones of policy (not sure about law) and tell people on the ground to execute it. It happens in business all the time.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I fully blame Trump for the policy. His policy was to separate kids from parents. His policy was not do it without a way to reconnect them without DNA. That was poorly executed by whoever was in charge of execution.

Leaders do throw bones of policy (not sure about law) and tell people on the ground to execute it. It happens in business all the time.

Something as complicated, as important as kids and families was going to just be 'figured out on the fly' at entry points all across the border, by different agencies and personnel, is an example of where that's ok?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Something as complicated, as important as kids and families was going to just be 'figured out on the fly' at entry points all across the border, by different agencies and personnel, is an example of where that's ok?

No, not saying its okay at all. I thought we were talking about where to place the blame for having to use DNA to reconnect parents to kids.

I made the distinction between blame on "policy" and blame on poor "execution".

[PilotMan]

Good policy generally includes the means to good execution. Poor policy does not. The execution is the the result of the poor policy. You're breaking them apart. I am not.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I'm surprised Roger Waters isn't personally flying a Trump balloon.

Is this good enough?

Spoiled for some language

Spoiler