WW LXXIV Killer Kittens on Mount FujiMori day (GAME OVER- KITTENS WIN)

[oliegirl]

So now Dangarion is calling the seer out??? Wow...

I haven't been converted. I imagine I wasn't attacked last night because the wolves assumed that either mccollins or RendeR was guarding me. They obviously knew RendeR wasn't a wolf so they figured it wasn't worth wasting an attack. That is just my theory - I have nothing to prove it, but without a better explanation, it's all I've got.

I'm not a wolf. No one has successfully attacked me. I've posted my scans, outed Kwhit after I scanned him, and haven't moved my votes around much like others have...

Not really sure why I'm being called out here...best knee jerk reaction is that Dan is a wolf and figures if he casts enough suspicion on me you'll lynch me and the seer will be gone...there certainly are others that look more suspicious than me at this point.

[mccollins]

hoops, I'm thinking (and have been thinking) the same thing. However, I'll wait and let him make a case.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

VOTE DANGARION

I'm going with the "inexperienced wolf" theory here, coupled with a lack of a claimed role. And, finally, questioning the seer.

I'm fine if you guys decide to take me out today. But I'm not going to self-vote and I'm still going to try and add value until I'm thrown into the dunk tank with the LOLrus.

LOL - Hoops...get out of my head!!!

[mccollins]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

Eagles Fan- Coffee WArlord- 1709
Hoopsguy-cronin1712, ealgesfan 1724
Dangerion-Hoops 1749

The cronin vote is 1714, but to answer your earlier question, no there are no other votes.

[claphamsa]

Eagles Fan- Coffee WArlord- 1709
Hoopsguy-cronin1714, ealgesfan 1724
Dangerion-Hoops 1749


close enough!

[st.cronin]

I think the wolves killed Chief Rum because they thought olie was going to scan him.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I think the wolves killed Chief Rum because they thought olie was going to scan him.

That's a stretch, since there were at least 3 other people (Passa, Hoops, and Render) who were more likely to be scanned.

[hoopsguy]

Wolves moves:
Night 1 - kill Alan
Night 2 - can't kill McCollins
Night 3 - blocked by two bodyguards attacking Olie
Night 4 - kill Chief Rum

N1: taking out a strong veteran player who doesn't have suspicion. Professional move. PB and KWhit are both on wolves team at this point.

N2: really off-the-map selection here with McCollins comes back to haunt them

N3: going after the obvious candidate, not knowing there are three people with option to guard the obvious candidate. Experienced move playing chicken with the BG? Rookie mistake? Someone putting in orders not there around deadline (KWhit was there, right?). Another tough one to figure

N4: taking out one of the uncleared players when there are very few uncleared players. Most confusing night kill yet. Maybe they are giving up? Maybe they just wanted to get a successful kill after two straight nights? Those are the only reasons I can think of that don't involve our trust list being compromised.


Gah - this sucks. I've got to be missing something here, because I just don't believe that we had multiple uncontested reveals that were bullshit. Our trust list should be pretty solid. I just don't understand why the wolves are accelerating our process of purging the uncleared guys.

[mccollins]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I think the wolves killed Chief Rum because they thought olie was going to scan him.

I don't understand - why would that make them want to kill him more?

[st.cronin]

Well, assume Render IS a bodyguard - they're not going after him. And I think pass has generally been regarded as semi-cleared. And finally, pass had made a semi-convincing argument that hoops is kitten. Oliegirl seemed to buy it, anyway.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by mccollins

I don't understand - why would that make them want to kill him more?

It would make oliegirl look bad.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

That's a stretch, since there were at least 3 other people (Passa, Hoops, and Render) who were more likely to be scanned.

Not to mention Dan and EF.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Well, assume Render IS a bodyguard - they're not going after him. And I think pass has generally been regarded as semi-cleared. And finally, pass had made a semi-convincing argument that hoops is kitten. Oliegirl seemed to buy it, anyway.

Uh, why wouldn't they wanna kill the bodyguard? And how has Pass been even remotely cleared?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Well, assume Render IS a bodyguard - they're not going after him. And I think pass has generally been regarded as semi-cleared. And finally, pass had made a semi-convincing argument that hoops is kitten. Oliegirl seemed to buy it, anyway.

I'm reading things a lot differently -- I feel like I've got a lot of suspicion on me now, and my argument about hoops was pretty much refuted.

[st.cronin]

Pass made a late vote on day 1 for PurdueBrad.
Pass made a late vote on day 1 for PurdueBrad.
Pass made a late vote on day 1 for PurdueBrad.
Pass made a late vote on day 1 for PurdueBrad.
Pass made a late vote on day 1 for PurdueBrad.
Pass made a late vote on day 1 for PurdueBrad.
Pass made a late vote on day 1 for PurdueBrad.
Pass made a late vote on day 1 for PurdueBrad.
Pass made a late vote on day 1 for PurdueBrad.
Pass made a late vote on day 1 for PurdueBrad.
Pass made a late vote on day 1 for PurdueBrad.
Pass made a late vote on day 1 for PurdueBrad.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Uh, why wouldn't they wanna kill the bodyguard? And how has Pass been even remotely cleared?

i think they figured the BGs would protect themselves.

[Coffee Warlord]

So.

Did Pass make a late vote on day 1 for someone?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I'm reading things a lot differently -- I feel like I've got a lot of suspicion on me now, and my argument about hoops was pretty much refuted.

I didn't buy your argument about hoops, but I thought oliegirl did. My point is that the wolves may have tried to make a guess about who oliegirl would scan.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

i think they figured the BGs would protect themselves.

With the seer out there in plain site? No freakin' way.

'Course, to sound like a broken record. I still don't buy 2 full fledged bodyguards.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

i think they figured the BGs would protect themselves.

bingo

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

With the seer out there in plain site? No freakin' way.

'Course, to sound like a broken record. I still don't buy 2 full fledged bodyguards.

Ah, except both bodyguards had claimed to have guarded oliegirl the night prior. So neither was available to guard her - they likely would have guarded themselves. And mccollins had said he was going to guard olie.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Ah, except both bodyguards had claimed to have guarded oliegirl the night prior. So neither was available to guard her - they likely would have guarded themselves. And mccollins had said he was going to guard olie.

I was just about to correct myself on that one. My bad there.

[st.cronin]

If we assume Render, seolian, and oliegirl are all being truthful, the Chief Rum kill makes a little bit of sense. It still doesn't seem ideal - why not me or Lathum, or The Jackal?

[mccollins]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

It would make oliegirl look bad.

Because she couldn't produce a scan? Ok, I can see that. But CR would've been down the list of people to scan. I see your point though.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

If we assume Render, seolian, and oliegirl are all being truthful, the Chief Rum kill makes a little bit of sense. It still doesn't seem ideal - why not me or Lathum, or The Jackal?

There's just no scenario I can think of, given the publically available ruleset, that would make good tactical sense to off someone in the unknown list vs the 'known' list.

The only two reasons I can think of...

1) The dogs know more about the rules than we do, and CR was involved in it for some reason.

2) The dogs wanted to pick a completely off the wall target to either be totally sure they got a kill, or to cause us to say WTF all day.

[mccollins]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

2) The dogs wanted to pick a completely off the wall target to either be totally sure they got a kill

That has been my first and only guess.

Much like looking back at Alan's vote, I think we need to go back and look at CR's analysis. Perhaps he hit a little too close to home? I don't recall what he said in all those posts the night before last, but last night he just said that KWhit was the obvious move.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by mccollins

That has been my first and only guess.

Which I still don't like all that much, because there's a plethora of people in the cleared list who had about a 99% chance of not being protected last night, myself included.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

There's just no scenario I can think of, given the publically available ruleset, that would make good tactical sense to off someone in the unknown list vs the 'known' list.

The only two reasons I can think of...

1) The dogs know more about the rules than we do, and CR was involved in it for some reason.

2) The dogs wanted to pick a completely off the wall target to either be totally sure they got a kill, or to cause us to say WTF all day.

I think the spirit of what you're saying is right, CW -- it's just that since olie, BGs, and mccollins were all untouchable, you have to wonder why they didn't go after people like cronin, Lathum, and you.

[Passacaglia]

oh, and The Jackal -- but they might be hoping they can use him to off another villager at some point.

[Coffee Warlord]

Heh. Get out of my head.

[Passacaglia]

Maybe they're worried that one of the uncleareds has some other power.

[Coffee Warlord]

Fuck, we have enough supposed powers for 2 games worth of villagers as it is.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Fuck, we have enough supposed powers for 2 games worth of villagers as it is.

All these villager powers seems to be really upsetting you.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

All these villager powers seems to be really upsetting you.

Yes. Yes they are. I am convinced there's one, maybe two liars in there.

No, not because I'm a wolf, but because I think we're taking way too much shit for granted.

[hoopsguy]

CW, I'm starting to come around to your way of thinking that the trust list isn't rock solid, but I'm having a hard time buying two members in that list - there hasn't been a single role reveal that has been challenged, right? Except for two bodyguards, both of who have light auras per the seer.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

CW, I'm starting to come around to your way of thinking that the trust list isn't rock solid, but I'm having a hard time buying two members in that list - there hasn't been a single role reveal that has been challenged, right? Except for two bodyguards, both of who have light auras per the seer.

Which is a very big hole in my argument, I know. And no, I have no answer to that, especially since the 2 people I find most questionable in the trusted list (Seolian and Mccollins), have been cleared by Olie.

And I *really* don't even want to think that Olie has been stringing us along all this time.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Well, assume Render IS a bodyguard - they're not going after him. And I think pass has generally been regarded as semi-cleared. And finally, pass had made a semi-convincing argument that hoops is kitten. Oliegirl seemed to buy it, anyway.

If this comment is b/c I didn't scan Hoops last night, I already explained that, I really felt it was best to get the RendeR situation put to bed and resolved. If this was brought on by something else, please let me know what, b/c I have not removed Hoops from my suspect list...

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Which is a very big hole in my argument, I know. And no, I have no answer to that, especially since the 2 people I find most questionable in the trusted list (Seolian and Mccollins), have been cleared by Olie.

And I *really* don't even want to think that Olie has been stringing us along all this time.

I was thinking Olie had been converted too due to her immediate and quite loud exclamation of LYAR! about my reveal. it felt too quick a response...almost too over the top for the seer to do that.

But then if she WERE converted, why would she scan me as light? If she were a dog now she should have said my scan was dark thereby guarenteeing my lynching. Right?

So I actually trust Olie is still scanning for the kitteh's at this point.

I did NOT protet myself last night. I protected someone I thought would be off the wolves list of "obviously getting protected" list. Unfortunately that person was not atacked and I saw nothing useful last night.

Didn't someone say they followed me? Did you see anything? Clap's PM's are so damned minimal =)

[claphamsa]

u get what u need! and thats it!

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

u get what u need! and thats it!

"LIAR! LIAAARRR...Ever since Prince Humperdink fired him he's had no confidence..."

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by RendeR

"LIAR! LIAAARRR...Ever since Prince Humperdink fired him he's had no confidence..."

Get back witch!

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Get back witch!

"I'm not a witch I'm your WIFE! but after what you just said I don't think i wanna be THAT anymore!!"

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I was thinking Olie had been converted too due to her immediate and quite loud exclamation of LYAR! about my reveal. it felt too quick a response...almost too over the top for the seer to do that.

But then if she WERE converted, why would she scan me as light? If she were a dog now she should have said my scan was dark thereby guarenteeing my lynching. Right?

So I actually trust Olie is still scanning for the kitteh's at this point.

I did NOT protet myself last night. I protected someone I thought would be off the wolves list of "obviously getting protected" list. Unfortunately that person was not atacked and I saw nothing useful last night.

Didn't someone say they followed me? Did you see anything? Clap's PM's are so damned minimal =)

LOL...I only jumped on that reveal RendeR b/c it seemed SO absurd that we'd have 2 bodyguards. I had a good idea before SL's reveal that he was good, the boy is a horrible liar so I'd have picked up on something when I was joking around and asked if he was a wolf. I scanned him to make sure, but once he revealed, and then you immediately revealed - after the PB fiasco, I just figured you were trying to pull the same thing and would say "why would I do that when PB just failed at it" as your excuse.

Here is the question...of the uncleared players - Hoops, Pass, Dan, EF (think that is all)...which of them have been the MOST wolf like? I'm inclined to give Dan a pass as he's a newer player and this is his first game back in a while. Though his crazy accusation of me did make my wolfdar go crazy, so who knows there.

I don't think I've ever played with EF as a wolf, so I don't know there. He's an unknown to me.

Hoops has been a wolf once or twice in the games I've played, and is a good player - but he's usually scanned and lynched fairly early. Not sure I've played where he's lasted this long...

Pass...well, we have a long love/hate relationship don't we Pass? Whenever I give him the benefit of the doubt, he burns me...and whenever I go after him, he turns out to be good. So that is a puzzle in itself.

So basically - I have nothing to say Guess I just felt like typing for a while or something.

[RendeR]

Hoops and Pass both scare me since they're both still breathing in this game and we're working day 5....

try one of them. I'd go with pass first.

[EagleFan]

Another question comes to mind. Exactly why are people trusting cronin? Because he admitted that he will scan as bad? Why is he alive? He's a veteran player that would be dangerous for the wolves to leave alive for this long.

Am I forgetting a reason for why we started to trust him?

[st.cronin]

I busted PurdueBrad, that's why people trust me. And nobody has countered my claim that I'm the stray.

[EagleFan]

The heat was on PB as it was, that could easily have been a calculated sacrifice in an attempt to gain trust.

[hoopsguy]

Hoops has been a wolf once or twice in the games I've played, and is a good player - but he's usually scanned and lynched fairly early. Not sure I've played where he's lasted this long...

Olie, you are the person in position to do something about scanning me

Seriously, if we are the two people you are worried about then lynch one of us and scan the other one. I think Pass and I have been in agreement on the right strategy for the last day. Both of us seem to be willing to give up our lives for the good of the team. Who knows, maybe we are both villagers but I understand the reasoning to worry about a couple of uncleared vets.

If our COT - even with just the bodyguards + LOLcat + seer is good - then we are winning this game, even if we break a couple of eggs along the way.

[EagleFan]

Since I've floated the three team idea out there I was wondering how this idea sounds (not for anything happening in this game, just as an idea):


3 even teams (if 15 people, then 3 teams of 5):
Lynch votes each day
Some sort of even powers given to the teams, 1 or 2 members of each team
Night kills can be done by each team but there is a rule (Team A can only night kill Team B, Team B can only night kill team C and Team C can only night kill Team A)
If the personselected by a team to night is on the tea they can't night kill it will be unsuccessful with a chance of a reveal

Winning team is the team with the most remaining players after one team has been eliminated. If even than the game is a draw

Working on the idea for remaining players, like having them be converts or a different win condition for them.

[Coffee Warlord]

My problem with that is the utter lack of information we had in our PM's, and the lack of multiple night kills.

If there were 3 factions, there'd almost have to be a couple people on at least 2 of the factions with the power to kill. No evidence of that. If there were 3 factions, it'd be absurd that at least some people would know about it.

I know, take everything said with a grain of salt, but the role PM for the vanilla villager was REALLY SHORT, and that was it. I highly doubt you could do 3 factions if the other common cats got the same thing (which clap himself even said - 'you are teh kitteh' was all the vanillas got).

Just don't think with a message like that, there's room in the game for 3 factions.