HIMYM/Big Bang Thread

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by stevew

The mother was a surrogate or she died too soon?

died too soon.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

It's really just an April Fool's joke on all of us, since Ted winds up right where he was 8 1/2 years ago in the pilot episode - holding a blue french horn outside of Robin's apartment. And we know how that turned out.

That's cute writing, not good writing.

Yeah

[stevew]

Originally Posted by General Mike

died too soon.

Cool. I cared about 2 sentences worth of explanation and you brought it in under budget.

[DaddyTorgo]

Alan Sepinwall's review where he rips into it

Series finale review: How I Met Your Mother - Last Forever: How they conned us all

[ISiddiqui]

I just saw it, and I'm not totally sure how I feel about. The final episode was actually done pretty interestingly, as we jumped year by year into the future and while there were some funny bits, it was mostly about the characters. I liked it, even though it ends with Ted asking out Robin, but didn't love it.

But all the rumors the last few weeks came to pass.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Alan Sepinwall's review where he rips into it

Series finale review: How I Met Your Mother - Last Forever: How they conned us all

I'll counter with AV Club, where they give it a B+

How I Met Your Mother, “Last Foreverâ€� · TV Club · The A.V. Club

[kcchief19]

We're all so smart yet all so stupid. We figured out the mother-dies play that was not so cleverly disguised, then we fell for the season-long wedding that was merely subterfuge to make us believe that Robin and Barney were forever. That setup is up to completely ignore the fact that for eight seasons this show was "How I Met Your Aunt Robin," so that they could pull the rug out from under us at the end.

I binged on the entire series the last few weeks, listening for clues and tips to the reveal. I was actually quite surprised in retrospect how little conversation or tips about the mother were really in the show until the last few seasons. My initial thought was that the mother dying would undermine the "rewatchability" of the show.

It really doesn't hurt it that much, given that they pretty much completely undermine the relationship between Ted and the mother. It's not like Ted and the mother were meant for each other -- the love of her life was her first husband that died, and the love of Ted's life was Robin. So he got to shack up with her for a few years, get the kids he wanted, the end up with Robin. The fact they didn't get married for so long diminished the relationship. We've been sold all along on Ted and the mother being some great romance. It wasn't it was just a romance.

It wasn't the worst finale or worst season of all time, but it's definitely low marks. C- at best.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Tracy is simply another in the long line of also-rans.

I don't think that at all. I think what it was saying is that there isn't just "the one". You can have more than one person who is that person for you. Obviously he was in love with the Mother and she loved him and they had an absolutely fantastic wedding and life, but she got sick and died. Arguably a better "the one" for Ted than Robin, and Robin is the "also-ran" who gets a second chance.

[Matthean]

If all of the shows leading up to this hadn't pointed to Robin enough for viewers, it seemed like the wedding pretty much laid it out for everybody.

[EagleFan]

Basically they could name the show

"How I met someone that means nothing in this story."

Not only did they trivialize her importance to the story but also her impact on all of the characters' lives.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Basically they could name the show

"How I met someone that means nothing in this story."

Not only did they trivialize her importance to the story but also her impact on all of the characters' lives.

seen elsewhere

This show wasn't, "How I Met Your Mother." This show was, "How Old Ted Wants to Bang Aunt Robin..."

... or "How I Loved This Lady Who Never Wanted Kids and Found a Second-Best Choice Who Did Want Kids But Thank God She Died So Now I Have Kids and the Lady I Really Love."

[EagleFan]

lol, I like that second one.

[Solecismic]

More simply: How I Met Your Birth Mother.

[EagleFan]

How I Met Your Baby Mama

[Radii]

I feel like this is exactly what I deserved. This was a show that had a *great* first 3 seasons, some of the funniest TV I can remember, and then it got lazy, and it got bad, and it stopped staying true to its characters, and it got worse, and it put its characters into dumb places and relationships, and it made me actively hate most of them by having them become simply bad people. And I kept watching. This is a show that for the past 5 years has replaced good writing and good storytelling with gimmicks, failing to pay off flash forwards, or half-assing them so they ended up disappointing and trying to make points that they didn't earn.

What else should I have possibly expected from the series finale? Basically everything I just said crammed into an hour of unearned, disingenuous conclusions for a bunch of characters that I used to love, really wish I could like, but don't, and haven't in a very long time.


Maybe this will finally cure me of my inability to let shows go.

[MrBug708]

I'm good with the ending. Enjoyed it thoroughly and felt real and different.

Not surprised the usual complainers are, well, complaining about the ending.

I give it a B+

[RainMaker]

The ending wouldn't have been bad if they didn't spend the whole final season at a weekend wedding that turned out to be pointless. Or spent years building up Robin-Barney to end it in 30 seconds. Why did Barney have a kid at the end? Just for a couple obvious jokes in the finale? Everything about the final season was terrible and the ending was stupid.

I guess they wrote themselves into a hole years ago and couldn't find a way out.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I'll counter with AV Club, where they give it a B+

How I Met Your Mother, “Last Foreverâ€� · TV Club · The A.V. Club

I've never read any tv article where they gave something less than a B.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I'll counter with AV Club, where they give it a B+

How I Met Your Mother, “Last Foreverâ€� · TV Club · The A.V. Club

Sepinwall is the best tv reviewer out there. Onion AV Club reviews stuff like they are getting paid to do it. That's not a counter.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The ending wouldn't have been bad if they didn't spend the whole final season at a weekend wedding that turned out to be pointless. Or spent years building up Robin-Barney to end it in 30 seconds. Why did Barney have a kid at the end? Just for a couple obvious jokes in the finale? Everything about the final season was terrible and the ending was stupid.

I guess they wrote themselves into a hole years ago and couldn't find a way out.

Barney having the baby was one of the best moments of the finale to me. He finally truly grew up with everything changing in that moment. The scene were he saw his little girl for the first time was one of the few moments (the only?) that connected with me emotionally.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by rowech

I've never read any tv article where they gave something less than a B.

You should read their reviews of "Hostages" then. There are some F's in there.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Barney having the baby was one of the best moments of the finale to me. He finally truly grew up with everything changing in that moment. The scene were he saw his little girl for the first time was one of the few moments (the only?) that connected with me emotionally.

I thought he finally grew up when he got married to Robin. Something they built up for seasons and based the entire final season around. And then they decided "welp, Barney is old Barney again because Robin travels a lot".

[Lathum]

I like it.

I'm not one to overanalyze shows, but to me the finale was a coming of age and wonderfully done. It was about people growing up and changing, and how when you are in your 20s you think those times will always last and they don't.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Barney having the baby was one of the best moments of the finale to me. He finally truly grew up with everything changing in that moment. The scene were he saw his little girl for the first time was one of the few moments (the only?) that connected with me emotionally.

This. And Marshall's dad dying.

I'm ok with the finale. I thought it reminded me that life is about the journey, and not the destination.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Barney having the baby was one of the best moments of the finale to me. He finally truly grew up with everything changing in that moment. .

Agree, as having a child tends to do.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Barney having the baby was one of the best moments of the finale to me. He finally truly grew up with everything changing in that moment. The scene were he saw his little girl for the first time was one of the few moments (the only?) that connected with me emotionally.

Yeah I liked that moment in a vacuum (just despised everything that has happened with Barney over the last 3'ish seasons to get there... not exactly orth it). There were lots of moments in the finale that I liked. Ted and the mother's actual meeting was done really, really well I think. That was a great scene and that individual scene was a wonderful payoff to the whole thing. I also really liked Barney spotting the mother on stage and trying to play "Haaaave you met Ted?" one last time. I liked most of the scenes with the mother that didn't involve Robin/Barney's divorce. So in a 42 minute series finale I liked a solid 7 minutes of it.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Subby

Sepinwall is the best tv reviewer out there. Onion AV Club reviews stuff like they are getting paid to do it. That's not a counter.

This +1000.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Subby

Sepinwall is the best tv reviewer out there. Onion AV Club reviews stuff like they are getting paid to do it. That's not a counter.

How silly. Sepinwall is a curmudgeon. There are more than one respected TV reviewer. I find the AV Club to usually be the most insightful reviewers out there (the Adventure Time reviewers find things that I had no idea where in the episode until I do a rewatch and realize whoa). And, yes, sometimes some shows are reviewed by 'fans' - but I want to read a review by someone who it seems actually enjoys a show. I've enjoyed reading the HIMYM recaps from the AV Club and have nothing but respect for those reviewers.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

You should read their reviews of "Hostages" then. There are some F's in there.

Heck this season of HIMYM had at least 4 C's (last season had more, IIRC). And Agents of SHIELD was getting D's. Not to mention Once Upon a Time, which very rarely gets a B or above these days.

[Dr. Sak]

I liked it. I didn't expect much...yes it made me sad that the mother died but that's life. Was it corny that he showed up at Robin's window with the French Horn, sure. I thought it was touching that the kids gave him their blessing to move on. It's like he was holding on to his wife's memory and fought the fact that he still had feelings for Robin, but held back out of respect for Tracy, but when the kids said what he was thinking, it was ok to let go of the past and live for the future.

Like someone else said...it's about the journey. Everything in life doesn't work out perfect, you hit road blocks, friends fall out of the group, they come back in, they have babies...

Was it a little silly at times, yes, but what made me relate to this show was that it touched on real life situations and kept them light. In a stupid way I felt similar to Ted when the show started...late 20s and not married watching all my friends get married and have kids while I just swam (upstream) to keep up.

Okay, I've rambled enough.

[Lathum]

Maybe I just watched the show differently than most. For me it was never about finding out who the mother is. Sure it was a fun side note, but the show is and always was about 5 friends and their journey. I think the show did a masterful job of encapsulating real life through these characters on a level most of us can relate to. Was it always funny or great TV, no, but rarely is something 9 seasons in, same as a bands follow up albums are never as good as their first release.

They are 5 people journeying through their twenties. The show took us on that journey. Marriages, having kids, losing parents, break ups, job changes, and ultimately the adult decisions that come with growing up and moving on, and how you never think you will when you are a twentysomething.

The final 20 minutes where they passed through the years and grew up, moved away, and moved on were spectacular in my opinion, and for me really captured what the show was about. For me the mother was a small part and it was never about her.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I liked it. I didn't expect much...yes it made me sad that the mother died but that's life. Was it corny that he showed up at Robin's window with the French Horn, sure. I thought it was touching that the kids gave him their blessing to move on. It's like he was holding on to his wife's memory and fought the fact that he still had feelings for Robin out of respect for Tracy, but when the kids said what he was thinking, it was ok to let go of the past and live for the future.

Like someone else said...it's about the journey. Everything in life doesn't work out perfect, you hit road blocks, friends fall out of the group, they come back in, they have babies...

Was it a little silly at times, yes, but what made me relate to this show was that it touched on real life situations and kept them light. In a stupid way I felt similar to Ted when the show started...late 20s and not married watching all my friends get married and have kids while I just swam (upstream) to keep up.

Okay, I've rambled enough.

Who is this Dr. Sak guy? Are you new?

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Who is this Dr. Sak guy? Are you new?

I know right? Marriage has softened me...I can't imagine what I'll be like when we have a child.

[DaddyTorgo]

Taken from elsewhere

Well Tracy kind of DID get trashed. In the scope of the show, which is supposed to be how she came into Ted's life...(going just by the title here) most of the story is actually about Robin and how Ted tried and tried to make it work with her. The part when he actually finds Tracy is almost an afterthought.....and her death? They never even bothered to actually say she died. Ted said " she got sick" and "its been 6 years" and that was it. If they wanted Ted to not appear like such a douche, they could have shown us some of that..they could have shown us his misery when she died and how she coped....they could have had more of him telling his kids about how amazing and awesome she was...but they didnt. All of which emphasized at how unimportant the actual MOM was to the story. They didnt have time cause they spent the whole season on a wedding weekend for a wedding that broke up 20 minutes of showtime later. Very poor writing choices and story telling. I stand by my original opinion.

Execution matters. To Ted, it was six years. To the viewers, it was six minutes.

[DaddyTorgo]

dola

it's pretty bad when random internet posters can come up with a better plot for the finale that has more emotional resonance

Can I suggest an alternative finale? I don't think the plot points were the problem for the most part, but rather the execution. So here is my alternative plot sketch for the finale. The main plot is similar, but the flashbacks are extended.

It is the day before Tracy's funeral. Open the scene on Ted alone at Maclaren's with Bob Saget (as an executor of the will or something) reading the draft obituary Ted wrote for Tracy concluding with a line like "And that kids is why I loved your mother...That's beautiful. A bit long though, isn't it?". (That way we get to hear Saget one last time). He leaves to send it to the papers. Robin enters to console Ted. She's flown back to NY after a while abroad to pay her respects. The key is to show that Ted really didn't settle for Tracy and that Robin can believably become his partner due to the both of them comforting one another.

Their conversation now acts as a framing device where Ted realistically reminisces about his wife and his memories of her are shown via flashback (the whole gang hanging out, Tracy and his wedding, her sickness etc.). This is juxtaposed with Robin discussing her recent divorce (flashbacks of her and Barney's "legendary" marriage and the breakdown of it, her intermittent meetings with everyone).

Through this conversation the viewer sees that Ted adored his wife, but that both he and Robin feel lost, which serves as the impetus from them to renew their friendship and support one another. This way the concepts that friends grow apart and that there are tribulations in life are explored, while elaborating upon why Tracy was so important to Ted, as well as how Robin returned to NY and became so involved in Ted's life. Thus, when Ted asks the kids for permission to date Aunt Robin and they agree, it doesn't seem as if Ted was pining for her the whole time, but rather his renewed love was a result of evolving relationship following Tracy's death.

Barney still accidentally impregnates a woman after his divorce, but as a result of a single one-night stand, not some endless playboy run. The woman wants to put the girl up for adoption for various reasons, but Barney decides, having learnt to love as a husband, that he wants to raise the child as a single father. This hearkens back to Season 7 "Rebound Girl" and his general affinity for babies, but this time he's ready for the commitment.

Marshall and Lily's story is interwoven between the flashbacks, but they are more involved in the story.

Cut back to the bar. Everyone else arrives and Ted begins to tell them about the first time he met the mother. It then develops as it did in the actual finale. We see the flashback of Ted and Tracy. When it ends we see Ted concluding the story for his children. The conversation is similar, but with better connectivity to Robin and Ted's friendship and still respectful of Tracy.

The final scene of Ted bringing the Blue French Horn to Robin (who doesn't have that awful haircut and seems less isolated) has the sentimental and emotional weight that HIMYM is known for, and as it fades to black, an excellent "love story in reverse" is completed.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Taken from elsewhere

I'm just pissed that they really didn't show the wedding at all.

[ISiddiqui]

They didn't?

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

You should read their reviews of "Hostages" then. There are some F's in there.

How does Hostages get an F when Crisis is the similar type of show, oddly staring Durmot Mulroney instead of Dylan McDermott, and like a billion times worse than Hostages. I'm surprised, but it's possible.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

I'm just pissed that they really didn't show the wedding at all.

Yeah. I think a lot of my irritation has to do with the decision to waste the season showing this wedding that was so pointless they busted it up 30 seconds later, and then to shoehorn the "the mom is dead and i want robin" bit into a total of...6 minutes. It removed all of the emotion from those things.

It was just poorly written in those respects.

[stevew]

The greatest thing is that I'm sure the creators absolutely do not give a F what anyone thinks now that they have Eff You money and wipe their asses with 100 dollar bills.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by stevew

How does Hostages get an F when Crisis is the similar type of show, oddly staring Durmot Mulroney instead of Dylan McDermott, and like a billion times worse than Hostages. I'm surprised, but it's possible.

He said episodes get F's and there a ton of D's. Maybe the season grade would be a D? But since they do ep ratings, they didn't do a season wide rating.

Anyways, Crisis doesn't get episode ratings on AV Club, the first season got a C+.

[rowech]

This nails it perfectly for me...

‘How I Met Your Mother’ Finale: Review of ‘Last Forever’ - TIME

[larrymcg421]

Ted and Tracy are awesome, even with only a handful of moments together. Ted and Robin are not awesome, even with 9 seasons. That's the essence of why the finale doesn't work at all.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Ted and Tracy are awesome, even with only a handful of moments together. Ted and Robin are not awesome, even with 9 seasons. That's the essence of why the finale doesn't work at all.

Agreed. They had so much more chemistry than he and Robin did.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Agreed. They had so much more chemistry than he and Robin did.

They spent literally years showing us how bad Ted and Robin were for each other, that their relationship bordered on toxic, that everything about Ted's feelings for Robin were extremely unhealthy. They showed us this so frequently that it got annoying whenever it came up again. It was an extremely effective way to get the audience to get completely over any lingering idea that Ted/Robin should ever be together that may have been lingering from season 1, and made it easier to embrace the mother coming into the picture into the final season.

They did this having already filmed the ending, knowing the entire time what the endgame was.

*head explodes*

[ISiddiqui]

And I would counter with the fact that the Ted telling the story isn't the same Ted in the story. Tracy helped him to grow and not be the douchy Ted he was in the story. He was so changed by this person that he was content not to even officially tie the knot until 5 years and 2 children in. She made him let go of his silly ideas - well perhaps his daughter did (Ted was planning castle wedding until Tracy got preggers).

Ted is different, Robin is different. Doesn't mean they'll be happily ever after, but they are very different due to what life has given them. And it allows Ted to finally do what Tracy told him to - stop living in his stories and move forward. I don't know how much they showed how bad Ted & Robin were for each other, but when they were dating they wanted different things in life. And then it was a case of bad timing on both sides.

[DaddyTorgo]

I still think it felt too rushed. It was literally less than a 5 minutes between "the mother is dead" and "and now I want to hook up with Robin."

6 years "for Ted" but only 5 minutes for the actual viewers (who are you know...the ones watching the show), means that it felt...cheap. Maybe instead of wasting the whole season on this wedding they could have had him meet her a couple episodes back...had a couple episodes of them together, revealed her death at the beginning of the episode, then had flashbacks and what-not and then the return to Robin at the end wouldn't have felt so cheap/would have had some "punch."

[ISiddiqui]

Well, they had to do something where Ted and the mother meet in the finale - after all, its called "How I Met Your Mother" and extra eps after that would have always been seen as superfluous. Maybe they could just do extra extra flash forwards, perhaps.

Some people thought it was cheap, some people liked it. I do think this a series finale that will gain more acceptance as the years go on (like Seinfeld or The Sopranos, both of which are now generally seen as good and fitting finales while super controversial at the time)

[MrBug708]

They should just title it "How I wanted Ted to met your mother"

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm sorry, but the fact that they threw that line in there in the pilot eliminating Robin as "the mother" but apparently had this ending planned all along, and had 9 YEARS to come up with something more creative to get us there, or to abandon the idea, and this pile of turds was the best writing they could come up with really makes me feel like they started mailing it in on this show at least like...5 years ago?

Seriously - people on message boards are having better ideas for the finale, let alone better ideas working within the confines of their idea that they apparently felt so bound to. That doesn't say a lot to me about the quality of their writing/vision.

Color me unimpressed.