So I'm Writing a Paper..

[korme]

Just to be clear, when is it proper to use a number as just that, and when is it appropriate to write it out?

For example..

The following eight songs make up the soundtrack of my life:

or

The following 8 songs make up the soundtrack of my life:

[NoMyths]

Word for small numbers, number for large numbers.

[Ryan S]

I would always use the word.

EDIT - I would use the words as long as it was not something silly like nine thousand, four hundred and twenty seven. That is way too long to type out.

EDIT 2 - Ignore this and read NoMyth's post.

[terpkristin]

Less than and up to ten, write it out.
Greater than TEN, using the numbers is fine.
At least, that was the convention they wanted when I wrote my thesis (in December).

/tk
EDIT: fixed my mistake

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by terpkristin

Less than and up to ten, write it out.
Greater than 10, using the numbers is fine.
At least, that was the convention they wanted when I wrote my thesis (in December).

/tk

Yes, I'm pretty sure this is the appropriate AP style.

[Franklinnoble]

Shouldn't anyone in college English have an MLA handbook?

[korme]

cool. i know it's not written in stone, but i like to be on the ball with these types of things.

[korme]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Shouldn't anyone in college English have an MLA handbook?

im Way smart'er than 1 of those,

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by terpkristin

Less than and up to ten, write it out.
Greater than 10, using the numbers is fine.

Sorry, tk, but did anyone else catch the UIC?

[terpkristin]

Yes, I saw that after I typed it and decided to leave it.
And, wondered who else noticed it.

/tk

[Zippo]

write it out as "eight" I believe. I have been hammered numerous times for writing the numerals on my papers.

[korme]

my creative juices are flowing right now.. im like t-mac in game 1 against dallas.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by terpkristin

Less than and up to ten, write it out.
Greater than 10, using the numbers is fine.
...

A rule to live by.

[sooner333]

BTW, I hate it that different professors use different styles. I have the MLA handbook because my HS English teacher required it, but there's no way I'm getting ALA, or any other abbreviated English body's handbook to write a paper every time.

[DaddyTorgo]

i thought it was under twenty use words and over twenty use numbers

[Ragone]

I used to go by this slogan

When in doubt.. write it out

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

my creative juices are flowing right now.. im like t-mac in game 1 against dallas.

And Yao Ming in game two...

[lcjjdnh]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

Yes, I'm pretty sure this is the appropriate AP style.

Actually, AP Style says that numbers one to nine are written out while 10 and above are written in numerics, unless of course it starts a sentence in which case all numbers should be spelt out.

So:

One to nine
10 and above

[terpkristin]

Originally Posted by lcjjdnh

Actually, AP Style says that numbers one to nine are written in numerics while 10 and above are spelled out, unless of course it starts a sentence in which case all numbers should be spelt out.

So:

One to nine
10 and above

Doesn't what you wrote "one to nine/10 and above" go exactly opposite of what you said "numbers one to nine are written in numerics..."

1-9
and ten and above
is what you wrote would imply.

If you meant that your example is correct, then what I said excepting 10 is AP style:
one through nine
10 through :inf:+1

/tk

[lcjjdnh]

Originally Posted by terpkristin

Doesn't what you wrote "one to nine/10 and above" go exactly opposite of what you said "numbers one to nine are written in numerics..."

1-9
and ten and above
is what you wrote would imply.

If you meant that your example is correct, then what I said excepting 10 is AP style:
one through nine
10 through :inf:+1

/tk

Yeah, I'm an idiot , your example of what my words meant to say is right, I shall fix it. I wasn't really saying you were wrong about how to write it, just pointing out the AP style does not include the 10 written out.

[terpkristin]

Heheh. I figured what you meant was what you used in the example
As I'd said before, what I gave in terms of the rule of thumb was what my thesis requirements were. Though writing out things with double-digits in numerics makes sense...

/tk

[kingnebwsu]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

im Way smart'er than 1 of those,

I live like five minutes from you...maybe I should bring you my old college MLA handbook

[korme]

sorry, i have to share:

The second song cracking my soundtrack is “I Will Always Love You”, by Whitney Houston. I wish I was kidding. This song sticks with me from my elementary years with my Mom loving the pre-drug addicted Whitney Houston. I can just remembering riding in the car with her and being force-fed The Bodyguard Soundtrack, topped off by this song. Admittedly, I probably enjoyed the soothing sound of Whitney back in the day, but I like to forget these little stains on my musical timeline.

[JeeberD]

How could you miss that amazing Rockets game so that you could write a paper? You're totally fucking up your college experience, shortstuff...

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

sorry, i have to share:

The second song cracking my soundtrack is “I Will Always Love You”, by Whitney Houston. I wish I was kidding. This song sticks with me from my elementary years with my Mom loving the pre-drug addicted Whitney Houston.

It's interesting to note that she was singing about God in this song. No wait...it was crack.

[stkelly52]

It really depends on what style you are suposed to follow. According to the Turabian guide (which is based on the Chicago manual of style), you are supposed to spell out everything from one through one hundred. Also you must always spell out numbers that are the first word in a sentence, no mater how big it is.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

How could you miss that amazing Rockets game so that you could write a paper? You're totally fucking up your college experience, shortstuff...

This makes me miss hockey even more. Nothing like staying up until 1 watching quadruple overtime playoff games with the guys from Calgary and New York and completely blowing off homework.

SI

[korme]

I got a B+

shit on that

[NoMyths]

No harm intended, but my sense from your work around here is that a B+ is not that bad of a grade for you.

If you'd care to post the paper some of us might be able to give you a second opinion.

[korme]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

No harm intended, but my sense from your work around here is that a B+ is not that bad of a grade for you.

If you'd care to post the paper some of us might be able to give you a second opinion.

when i post on fofc or any message board i tend to post loosely and careless, hence the no capitalizing. B+, not that bad of a grade.. no, i have high expectations in only one field, that is english/literature so i am unsatisfied with anything less than an A.

here's my paper, it's only 3 1/2 pages. we had to pick 8 songs that have made a mark on our young lives, and describe why they have stuck or make the list.

To me, music is powerful in many ways. Music can be used as a means of reaching out to people about cultural happenings such as politics and war, while it can also be a means of emotional recreation, in where the music being played is music that correlates to your current mood. On a broader scale, music like hip-hop or rap can take people from the hood, the suburbs, the projects, or the city and put them all on a dance floor and all of those people will immediately be able to come together and dance. Music is something everyone can relate to, and there are so many types of music that there is always something new to hear. Therefore, music, constantly evolving, will never get tired or old. If you ask anyone in the world to name a song that they can associate with a memory, that question will be answered. In a way, everyone’s life is a soundtrack. The following eight songs, in chronological order, make up the soundtrack of my life.

Jimmy Buffett’s “Pencil Thin Mustache” comes in as the earliest song in my memory to stick. Growing up, from hearing him inside the house, hearing him while swimming in the pool, and getting a taste of Buffett even on road trips, Jimmy Buffett was a staple in the Kormelink household. My Dad loves Jimmy Buffett, I am almost positive he owns every one of his CD’s, and the reason he makes this prestigious list is because when I think of my Dad and music I think of Jimmy. I chose “Pencil Thin Mustache” because when I was little, 5 or 6 years old, I would hear this song and if my Dad’s face was in reaching distance, I would brush his ironically bushy mustache. In fact, it is the only song I can clearly remember sitting by the radio and copying it onto a cassette.

The second song cracking my soundtrack is “I Will Always Love You”, by Whitney Houston. I wish I was kidding. This song sticks with me from my elementary years with my Mom loving the pre-drug addicted Whitney Houston. I can just remembering riding in the car with her and being force-fed The Bodyguard Soundtrack, topped off by this song. Admittedly, I probably enjoyed the soothing sound of Whitney back in the day, but I like to forget these little stains on my musical timeline.

Bringing to the table the first hip-hop song, I chose Puff Daddy’s “I’ll Be Missing You”, his variation of Sting and The Police’s “I’ll be Watching You”, and personal tribute to his best friend, the late Notorious B.I.G. I place my growing appreciation for this song back when I saw the artist formerly known as Puffy on the MTV Music Awards with Sting as a guest as he performed this hit. Now, I had dipped and dabbled into rap with Coolio, Ma$e, Master P, Pac, and Biggie, but Puff Daddy and the Family’s “No Way Out” really put rap back onto the map for me. I remember laying on the floor of our new house in ’98 and trying to memorize the words of all of the songs off of that CD.

Sublime’s “Wrong Way” is the fourth song on tap. In ’98 or ’99, we took a road trip to Gatlinburg, Tennessee. It was just the four of us – Mom, Dad, my Brother Justin, and I, but being that it was a somewhat long trip for a bunch of young teens, Justin being 15 or 16, me being 12 or 13, we would pull the back couch of the van down into it’s bed position so we could lay down. So there we were on this trip, and I remember waking up to see my brother writing something on a piece of a paper, with his headphones to his Discman on. I curiously asked what he was doing, and he told me he was writing down the lyrics to this song “Wrong Way” by Sublime. I had heard the song before along with a few other songs from Sublime, though not very many times. But as it turns out he eventually lent me the headphones and the piece of paper and I soon was replaying the song over and over, trying to memorize it. Well, now I can say that I know all of the words to a song about a prostitute. Thanks, Justin.

The song “Tears in Heaven” by Eric Clapton is one where I can no longer play without a distinct memory coming into my head. When I was 15, my best friend’s neighbor Mike passed away in his sleep at the all too young age of 16. I had known Mike pretty well through my friend Nick, going all the way back to elementary school and playing basketball in Nick’s driveway. The night before the funeral, we all spent the night at a friend’s house, and this song was played once or twice. The next day, at the funeral, this song was again played. It was an emotional day, and I can no longer disassociate “Tears in Heaven” from Mike, not that I try to.

Next on the list is Lil’ Flip’s “7-1-3”, a song about representing his hometown of Houston, Texas. I chose this song because it got a lot of playtime in my room and at parties in my glorious High School days. Milford seemed to be a town that loved Lil’ Flip before he hit it big with his hit “Game Over”. I can still see myself and my friends cramped up in an Acura Integra driving down the road listening and physically vibrating to “7-1-3” behind two 10” subs and consequently playing his entire CD, “Undaground Legend”. Sometimes we would substitute 7-1-3 with 5-1-3, the area code of which Milford was in.

50 Cent makes his mark with “Disco Inferno” as my first college song. 50 Cent’s first CD, “Get Rich or Die Trying” has a lot of great songs. I love that CD. But by far my favorite song from 50 is off his new CD “The Massacre” with “Disco Inferno”. Not only do I love the beat, something that 50’s songs usually excel in, the lyrics are about dancing and girls shaking their asses, something I can support. In fact, a chick told me that whenever she hears the song, she immediately thinks of me. She said that I play it so much unintentionally that I have left my mark on it with her. It might be my favorite rap song of all-time, but the fact that it is new and fresh is probably making me a little biased there.

Bringing my soundtrack to the finish line is “Mr. Brightside” by The Killers. I remember a few months ago, my brother had called me and was telling me I would probably like their new CD, “Hot Fuss”. He asked if I had heard “Mr. Brightside”, and I said no, and he told me he knows I’d like it. Well it was one of those weird coincidences when only a few days later I heard it in another person’s room and thought, yea, I do in fact like this song. It has gotten to the point where “Mr. Brightside” gets multiple plays a day from me on the always reliable WSU-hookup of Napster. It’s funny, because “Mr. Brightside” is essentially a sad song due to the fact that it is about a guy watching as a girl he likes falls for another guy, but the tempo of the song just seems to put me in a good mood, so it always brightens my day.

In conclusion, these songs represent parts of my life that I can look back on and for the most part, cherish. These songs, like many more have affected me in a way that nothing else like music can. I can’t really watch a movie and draw a parallel to happenings in my life, like I oh so easily can with music.

He told me I had a few small errors (apparently "CD" is supposed to be "cd"), and I needed a stronger beginning and finish - which I suppose I agree on.

by the way, my teacher is a pretty awesome guy. he has a great passion for music, but more importantly he lets me get away with things like me writing about girls shaking their asses, if you were wondering how i could put that in there.

edited to fix stupid stuff wrong word copy and pasting.

[QuikSand]

FYI - Put your punctuation inside the quotes.

[Easy Mac]

not always

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

FYI - Put your punctuation inside the quotes.

You know- that's one rule that always bugged me. Particularly as a programmer. I mean, you don't do brackets or parens like that and it makes sense. Shouldn't the stuff like that go on the outside (the exception being if you have an entire sentence or paragraph inside the quotes- then the quotation marks are blocking things off).

here's my paper, it's only 3 1/2 pages. we had to pick 8 songs that have made a mark on our young lives, and describe why they have stuck or make the list.

Ugh- topics like that are just craptacular...

SI

[Easy Mac]

That was a college paper? I thought it was for like summer camp or something.

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

FYI - Put your punctuation inside the quotes.

Depends on the style. I know I just wrote an APA style paper, and it specifies no punctuation in the quotes unless it is part of the quote.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

FYI - Put your punctuation inside the quotes.

I hate that rule. There also seem to be some examples where it doesn't seem logical to do so...for instance, if you are asking a question about a specific quote. Ok, this probably doesn't happen often. But it would seem to me that in that case the question mark belongs to the question, not the quote being questioned. Maybe that's just me looking at it as a programmer (substituting quotes for parentheses)

oh...I should have read SI's post before writing the above

[cuervo72]

Dola - I also don't understand the "laziness" argument. If you get into the habit of writing and typing correctly, this shouldn't be an issue.

[NoMyths]

I don't put my punctuation inside the quotes, because I don't like the way it looks or works.

[cuervo72]

I don't find it aesthetically pleasing either.

[korme]

yes! punctuation arguments!!

[ThunderingHERD]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I hate that rule. There also seem to be some examples where it doesn't seem logical to do so...for instance, if you are asking a question about a specific quote. Ok, this probably doesn't happen often. But it would seem to me that in that case the question mark belongs to the question, not the quote being questioned.

In that situation the question mark (or exclamation point) would indeed go outside of the quotation marks.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Shorty's paper

“I Will Always Love You”,

“I’ll Be Missing You”,

“I’ll be Watching You”,

“7-1-3”,

“Undaground Legend”.

“Disco Inferno”.

“Hot Fuss”.

“Mr. Brightside”,

These are the instances in the paper where punctuation is used outside the quotation marks. In each and every case, proper American English dictates that the punctuation be inside the quotes. Period.

Yes, there are limited examples where it is clearer to leave the punctuation outside. None of them aply in these contexts, where each case is not itself a quotation, but a use of quotes to represent titles. You may not like how it looks, but the style here is incorrect -- punctuation that ends a sentence or phrase belongs inside the quotation marks.

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Yes, there are limited examples where it is clearer to leave the punctuation outside. None of them aply in these contexts, where each case is not itself a quotation, but a use of quotes to represent titles. You may not like how it looks, but the style here is incorrect -- punctuation that ends a sentence or phrase belongs inside the quotation marks.

Style is the tricky word in this passage. I don't believe Shorty was making a stylistic choice to punctuate as he did (which would simply be an error), but it can be a stylistic choice to punctuate non-traditionally. Which I do in my own work.

[cuervo72]

ee nomyths

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

...it can be a stylistic choice to punctuate non-traditionally. Which I do in my own work.

Sure, do it in your own work. Not in English class.

[flere-imsaho]

If I remember correctly, the correct American usage is commas & periods inside quotes, no matter what, semicolons and colons outside the quotes, no matter what, and question marks & exclamation points inside or outside, depending on whether they're part of the quote in question or not.

All of which makes a certain logical sense.

[rkmsuf]

Where the heck is Baby Got Back on your list?

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Sure, do it in your own work. Not in English class.

Well, I never said I let my students do it in my English classes.

They have to do it according to the book, until they get good enough to break the rules on purpose. Tricky thing about those rules of grammar, though...they change over time. I for one despair over the death of the Oxford comma.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

I for one despair over the death of the Oxford comma.

I don't. That annoyed me to no end while doing my thesis.

On the other hand, I used to torture my advisor by dropping split infinitives into the manuscript.

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I don't. That annoyed me to no end while doing my thesis.

Grr...I never understood why people wanted to increase the potential for confusion by not using it. But that's a whole different topic. :P