Soccer Thread 2023-24 Edition

[miami_fan]

I am not sure I have ever seen anything like the aftermath of the Manchester United v. Conventry match.

[sovereignstar v2]

Put United in the Championship and they probably don't get promoted right away

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I am not sure I have ever seen anything like the aftermath of the Manchester United v. Conventry match.

Missed the start of the comeback but that was incredible. Shame about VAR ruining a really cool moment.

[Ghost Econ]

Leverkusen are you fucking kidding me?

[Ksyrup]

So Leicester appears to have withstood a poor second half of the season to secure promotion back to EPL and likely to win the EFL title outright (they lead today 3-0 with about 20 minutes left and with a win would secure the title).

I don't know (or care to know) much about soccer's various rules and such, but an article I mostly read a week or so ago (until my eyes glazed over) suggests that they are in big trouble for next year - so much so that it seems like another year or two in EFL to sort their crap out might be preferable to instant promotion. Apparently they are in violation of financial rules and based on precedent, likely looking at starting next year more than 4 points in the hole. And based on whatever rules are in place, they may be precluded from signing any of their players whose contracts will be up at the end of this year - including Jamie Vardy. Further, either finances or penalties are going to restrict them from signing too many players before next season starts and may require that they sell off their best remaining players (like Dewsbury-Hall).

That all seems like it puts a big, fat damper on promotion.

Anyway... congrats?

[flere-imsaho]

Promotion is still better than non-promotion, even if they go back down again, because they'll get a slice of EPL money at some point that they would not have gotten if they were in the EPL.

But still, not a good situation. It's too bad, because the owners seem to really care and to be really involved, but boy howdy did they make some poor financial decisions (or took some pretty big financial risks, depending on how generous you want to be about it).

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

So Leicester appears to have withstood a poor second half of the season to secure promotion back to EPL and likely to win the EFL title outright (they lead today 3-0 with about 20 minutes left and with a win would secure the title).

I don't know (or care to know) much about soccer's various rules and such, but an article I mostly read a week or so ago (until my eyes glazed over) suggests that they are in big trouble for next year - so much so that it seems like another year or two in EFL to sort their crap out might be preferable to instant promotion. Apparently they are in violation of financial rules and based on precedent, likely looking at starting next year more than 4 points in the hole. And based on whatever rules are in place, they may be precluded from signing any of their players whose contracts will be up at the end of this year - including Jamie Vardy. Further, either finances or penalties are going to restrict them from signing too many players before next season starts and may require that they sell off their best remaining players (like Dewsbury-Hall).

That all seems like it puts a big, fat damper on promotion.

Anyway... congrats?

Reports are that the embargo is an EFL embargo, so once we are officially an EPL team (6th June) we can sign/resign as normal…

Except we still need to make savings by 30th June to avoid more breaches of the EPL PSR rules.

What it will likely mean is that we will sign Fatawu, Vardy will likely move on unless he takes a significant drop in wages, and KDH plus others will need to be sold.

And -6 seems to be the consensus starting position

Staying down wouldn’t have worked, as it would have just been kicking the can down the road on the PL punishments, while the EFL embargo and future breach of their rules would have meant more significant and immediate penalties there, massively reducing the likelihood of being competitive

What hasn’t been clarified (as we haven’t officially broken any EFL rules yet, hence one of the legal challenges- we are likely to, but haven’t actually failed yet) is what happens if/when we get relegated agin: will there be future EFL deductions? Probably

[Ksyrup]

Thanks for the info. Like I said, I don't pretend to understand (or want to) all of the rules but it's kind of a crappy situation either way - although one I guess they are responsible for, so they can only blame themselves. With potential future EFL penalties out there, that makes it even more imperative that they get this next squad right and at least tread water around 15th for a couple of years, rightsize things, and begin to build back a team like they had 5 years ago.

[miami_fan]

Has anyone seen justification for why LFC's last two years in the PL are counted in the EFL's profit and sustainability three year calculations? The two leagues have different limits for profit and sustainability.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Has anyone seen justification for why LFC's last two years in the PL are counted in the EFL's profit and sustainability three year calculations? The two leagues have different limits for profit and sustainability.

It’s one of the aspects that is causing the whole thing to be reevaluated - generally teams who get relegated have an inkling it could happen, and can build in mitigation plans

However LCFC (presume you meant Leicester City rather than LFC (Liverpool ) had been challenging for CL and European football in recent years, and were not seen as a risk to be relgated.

Added to the fact that it was completely unexpected, even to the club until it was much much too late, turns out we were massively overpaying players across the board - our wages:turnover ratio was something like 116%.

So it was a horrible mix of paying players to stay who really wanted to leave and didn’t give 100% (Tielemans, Soyuncu, Ndidi), and Top (the chairman) being too loyal and nice and paying bang average squad players far too much (Chouhury, Albrighton, Amartey, Mendy) plus average at best recruitment (Ward, Daka, Soumare) all combing into a gradual seemingly unnoticed slide into mediocrity, all with a massive turnover.

Then Tielemans and Soyuncu go for free at the end of the contract, as will Ndidi this summer, who could have been sold for a combined £100m plus (others on a free this year such as Iheanacho, Westergaard, Praet are less flagrant examples of a number of the above)

Then add in the fact that not only are the loss levels different, but so are the timelines: the EFL try to take proactive measures with accounts from the previous years and forecasts for the current in November, which was when LCFC kicked back essentially with your point: saying we were nothing to do with you until four months ago, and therefore we are only bound by your rules after a full year, effectively giving the middle finger to submitting the November forecast.

So the rules don’t match, and it has been shown to be an issue (as have the rules themselves, and are to be completely reworked for the 25-26 season, but that’s another topic!)

However, underlying all of this is that the club has been mismanaged, and we would have failed the PL rules quite badly too, even with their higher limits, so it’s hard to be angry TBH.

The PL rules are likely changing to allow a max spend of (probably) 5x the lowest club’s revenue, which we (along with all bar Chelsea) would have been within: it’s not case that the club is in danger, the owners have plenty of cash (not as much as MCFC or NUFC, but plenty enough), but I’m one for if there are a set of agreed rules and you break them, you get what you deserve.

But FFP/Profit & Sustainability has been shown to be flawed this year, to the point where they are changing the rules so that effectively no-one fails them!

[miami_fan]

Webb: Premier League referees set to explain VAR decisions - ESPN

In an effort to improve communication with fans, chief refereeing officer Howard Webb has said Premier League referees could soon announce to stadium crowds and television audiences why they have changed their decisions after visiting the VAR monitor.

Explanations would only be announced when a referee has visited the pitch-side monitor and not VAR checks which do not result in the on-field decision being overturned.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by AlexB

It’s one of the aspects that is causing the whole thing to be reevaluated - generally teams who get relegated have an inkling it could happen, and can build in mitigation plans

However LCFC (presume you meant Leicester City rather than LFC (Liverpool ) had been challenging for CL and European football in recent years, and were not seen as a risk to be relgated.

Ha! I don't think I have called them Leicester City since they last won the Championship. So in my head they are just Leicester FC or the Foxes lol. Is that a big deal for Foxes supporters? The reason I asked is I have friends who are Leeds supporters who had to make it very clear to me years ago that using United to refer to Manchester United no matter how well intentioned I was being would not be tolerated in their local pub.

However, underlying all of this is that the club has been mismanaged, and we would have failed the PL rules quite badly too, even with their higher limits, so it’s hard to be angry TBH.

The PL rules are likely changing to allow a max spend of (probably) 5x the lowest club’s revenue, which we (along with all bar Chelsea) would have been within: it’s not case that the club is in danger, the owners have plenty of cash (not as much as MCFC or NUFC, but plenty enough), but I’m one for if there are a set of agreed rules and you break them, you get what you deserve.

But FFP/Profit & Sustainability has been shown to be flawed this year, to the point where they are changing the rules so that effectively no-one fails them!

Oh I am not saying they are not deserving of punishment for breaking the rules. It would be different if these were English FA rules that governed the Prem, EFL and the National League.