Officer delays family racing to see dying mom

[molson]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It would take 30 seconds to realize that this wasn't a dangerous situation and to let them go.

Or less than 30 seconds to wait at a red light and skip all this drama.

I'm sure the officer would have done it differently if he had a chance. I think the driver + passenger also would have done things differently.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It would take 30 seconds to realize that this wasn't a dangerous situation and to let them go.

Did you watch the video, or just read the article? You're either uninformed or delusional. Seriously, watch the first 3 minutes of the video. Pretend you don't know the outcome or anything at all. How often does a traffic stop happen this way and have no further illegal activity aside from running the red light have occured? I am going to guess almost never.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

I think the driver + passenger also would have done things differently.

Given the publicity whoring and calls for the cop's job, I don't really believe that's the case at all. They delusionally seem to think they were totally faultless here.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Given the publicity whoring and calls for the cop's job, I don't really believe that's the case at all. They delusionally seem to think they were totally faultless here.

I was thinking that when I was typing, but decided to give them the benefit of the doubt.

But I think you're right. I think at this point, getting the cop fired is the most important thing in the world. Maybe a normal human reaction - replacing grief with illogical anger.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by molson

Or less than 30 seconds to wait at a red light and skip all this drama.

Mother dying, not thinking logically, just rushing to get there, ect. Your argument is silly and unrealistic. 30 seconds is an eternity in that situation. They are not paid or trained like cops to handle these situations.

I'm sure if they had the cool mind set of distant and uninvolved message board posters, they probably wouldn't have run it.

[larrymcg421]

I say hooray to he proud heroes who can remain upright citizens and completely calm when their relative is minutes away from dying. You all are truly heroes. I salute you.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Good to know that some things are pretty universal. If you knew #3 then I'm a little surprised you didn't have some local variation on #7. And of course #4 (shoot twice) applies largely to people not animals, since the second shot usually not a clear one could damage the hide or the meat.

And I don't even hunt

#4 makes perfect sense, of course, but that's the sort of thing that gets included in the lecture when you're shooting at a police range, or facsimile thereof, not old coffee cans when you're 9 years old or whatever.

#7, eh, there might've been a local variation, but there's a lot of "guy" things in which I never really took a huge interest as a kid. Construction, auto repair, guns (beyond that one time taking potshots at a tin can with a rifle). Might they have said it? Sure. Do I remember anybody saying such a thing? Nope. Never went back to the range after that one time, either.

I remember the stuff that relates to 'surefire ways to get your (or somebody else's) ass killed,' but not much really about what to do after said ass has been dispatched.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I say hooray to he proud heroes who can remain upright citizens and completely calm when their relative is minutes away from dying. You all are truly heroes. I salute you.

Its a stressful situation, and as molson has pointed out countless times, no one is suggesting that the family should have been shot, arrested, or anything more than possibly getting a ticket.

There's a MASSIVE difference in saying "shitty situation, that sucks" and as rainmaker said earlier that the cop is a cocksucker who shouldn't have a job. BIG difference.

[Noop]

Being a cop I imagine is not an easy job. I am not their biggest fans but I think some of you are overreacting.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by Noop

Being a cop I imagine is not an easy job. I am not their biggest fans but I think some of you are overreacting.

No it's not. I couldn't handle it. That's why any idiot shouldn't be allowed to be one.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Radii

Did you watch the video, or just read the article? You're either uninformed or delusional. Seriously, watch the first 3 minutes of the video. Pretend you don't know the outcome or anything at all. How often does a traffic stop happen this way and have no further illegal activity aside from running the red light have occured? I am going to guess almost never.

I watched the video. The lady looks to be explaining to the cop that her Mother is dying. They are right next to the entrance to the Emergency Room. I know most cops aren't Rhodes scholars, but this looks fairly self explanatory.

I'll give him some leeway on the gun. But it's clear after 30 seconds that this was not a dangerous situation. The threats made by the cop show what his true intentions were.

[jeff061]

There's a MASSIVE difference in saying "shitty situation, that sucks" and as rainmaker said earlier that the cop is a cocksucker who shouldn't have a job. BIG difference.

Even his peers are saying he screwed up. You need to be high up on the ineptitude scale for that to happen.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Radii

Its a stressful situation, and as molson has pointed out countless times, no one is suggesting that the family should have been shot, arrested, or anything more than possibly getting a ticket.

There's a MASSIVE difference in saying "shitty situation for everyone, that sucks" and as rainmaker said earlier that the cop is a cocksucker who shouldn't have a job. BIG difference.

Again, though, I'm not questioning the officer for stopping them (although I think he did a poor job of reading the situation) or for even giving them a ticket. But the judgment he showed in handling this after the initial stop makes me think he is not fit to be a police officer.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by jeff061

No it's not. I couldn't handle it. That's why any idiot shouldn't be allowed to be one.

Well someone has to do it and those who do it are putting themselves at risk to serve the general public. I think there are more idiots per capita then there are bad cops.

* I repeat I am typically not a fan of police in general.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Radii

Its a stressful situation, and as molson has pointed out countless times, no one is suggesting that the family should have been shot, arrested, or anything more than possibly getting a ticket.

There's a MASSIVE difference in saying "shitty situation, that sucks" and as rainmaker said earlier that the cop is a cocksucker who shouldn't have a job. BIG difference.

I think people always want to blame someone. And ya, I wasn't blaming the driver, I'm just saying there's plenty of things he could have done differently as well.

And of course, it could have also been far worse. The driver was smart not to run into the hospital, and he was at least somewhat composed. The officer allowed the two women to go inside.

Shitty situation. Expecting perfection on all sides of a shitty situation is just unreasonable, it's not going to happen.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Radii

Its a stressful situation, and as molson has pointed out countless times, no one is suggesting that the family should have been shot, arrested, or anything more than possibly getting a ticket.

There's a MASSIVE difference in saying "shitty situation, that sucks" and as rainmaker said earlier that the cop is a cocksucker who shouldn't have a job. BIG difference.

Tell me the reason for telling him he could "screw him over" and "take him to jail for running a red light".

[molson]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Tell me the reason for telling him he could "screw him over" and "take him to jail for running a red light".

Nobody's defended that.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by molson

I think people always want to blame someone. And ya, I wasn't blaming the driver, I'm just saying there's plenty of things he could have done differently as well.

And of course, it could have also been far worse. The driver was smart not to run into the hospital, and he was at least somewhat composed. The officer allowed the two women to go inside.

Shitty situation. Expecting perfection on all sides of a shitty situation is just unreasonable, it's not going to happen.

I'm not expecting perfection. I do expect more from the cops than the family in this situation, but if the cop had at least let the guy go (or escort him in) after the nurse came down the first time, then at least his actions would make some sense.

[Noop]

Hindsight is always 20/20

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

Nobody's defended that.

Then what's the argument about here?

[larrymcg421]

Also, I think "the guy could have been dangerous" argument is a bit silly. The officer clearly doesn't think that, at least not after the first few seconds. He lets the guy walk around. There are other guys walking around near him. He doesn't pat the guy down or make him put his hands on the car. Later on in the video, the other cop asks about two other guys and if theyre allowed to leave. The response is, "I don't even know where he came from." I'm sure glad the officer is on top of this "dangerous" situation.

[molson]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I know most cops aren't Rhodes scholars, but this looks fairly self explanatory.

Hey, maybe cities should ONLY hire Rhodes Scholars as police officers!

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

Or less than 30 seconds to wait at a red light and skip all this drama.

I'm sure the officer would have done it differently if he had a chance. I think the driver + passenger also would have done things differently.

I don't know about that. I think a lot of us would run a red light in that situation. I think we'd expect that a competent officer would realize there was a reason for the traffic violation. Worst case scenario is you get a ticket. I don't think many of us would expect to be harrased outside the ER when our Mother is dying.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by molson

Hey, maybe cities should ONLY hire Rhodes Scholars as police officers!

With the current job market, that might be an upward move for most Rhodes scholars.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Also, I think "the guy could have been dangerous" argument is a bit silly. The officer clearly doesn't think that, at least not after the first few seconds. He lets the guy walk around. There are other guys walking around near him. He doesn't pat the guy down or make him put his hands on the car. Later on in the video, the other cop asks about two other guys and if theyre allowed to leave. The response is, "I don't even know where he came from." I'm sure glad the officer is on top of this "dangerous" situation.

If the cop thought it was a dangerous situation there would have been massive backup and Moats would have been on the ground handcuffed.

[Raiders Army]

My brother is a cop and I can tell you that he gets on that power trip. I just don't understand it. "Shut your mouth! Shut your mouth!"

Professionalism was out the window at the point the cop said that.

Again, there's a big difference between reading the words and watching the video. I can put myself in their situation and the emotions they must be feeling. I thought Moats handled it quite well considering.

[molson]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

If the cop thought it was a dangerous situation there would have been massive backup and Moats would have been on the ground handcuffed.

Edit: I might have taken your quote the wrong way.

Cops find themselves in dangerous situations without backup all the time.

I'm sure he didn't think this guy was going to run in and shoot up the hospital. Most likely, he was relying on his experience and training that people that act like that, at that time of night, have drugs in the car, or an outstanding warrant. He probably could have realized this was one of the exceptions, but it's very difficult for younger cops especially to go against procedure that like that.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Tell me the reason for telling him he could "screw him over" and "take him to jail for running a red light".

I'm not taking the cop's side against the family. He didn't act perfectly. I have said 2 or 3 times now that I was greatly offended by the cop's actions towards the end of the video, and you're absolutely right in that that was uncalled for.

But I am saying that both parties were put into a very, very high stress situation and things simply do not go perfectly in high stress situations. And, while its understandable why the family was under such stress, they are completely at fault for generating the high stress situation.


The cop should have handled the situation better. But to call him a cocksucker who deserves to be fired is just awful. To say that he should have figured out in 30 seconds the entire situation and resolved it perfectly based on what we know actually was happening is flawed at best.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

You don't know much about law enforcement other than your general "anti-cop" stance.

Cops don't call for backup in dangerous situations? They let the suspects walk around un-cuffed? What police manual is this one in?

It's not an anti-cop stance, it's an anti-cop on a power trip stance.

[molson]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Cops don't call for backup in dangerous situations? They let the suspects walk around un-cuffed? What police manual is this one in?

It's not an anti-cop stance, it's an anti-cop on a power trip stance.

You were quick on the trigger before I had a chance to edit.

I took what you said to mean, "you can bet if the officer unreasonably thought he was in danger, he would have overreacted", which wasn't evident at all from what you actually typed, at second look.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Radii

I'm not taking the cop's side against the family. He didn't act perfectly. I have said 2 or 3 times now that I was greatly offended by the cop's actions towards the end of the video, and you're absolutely right in that that was uncalled for.

But I am saying that both parties were put into a very, very high stress situation and things simply do not go perfectly in high stress situations. And, while its understandable why the family was under such stress, they are completely at fault for generating the high stress situation.


The cop should have handled the situation better. But to call him a cocksucker who deserves to be fired is just awful. To say that he should have figured out in 30 seconds the entire situation and resolved it perfectly based on what we know actually was happening is flawed at best.

I am giving the cop a free pass on the beginning of the situation. Honestly I would be a little cautious too and probably draw my gun in situations like that.

My issue is with the power trip he went on after he assesed the situation. Threatening the guy over and over. I don't believe we should have cops like that on the street. These are people we trust with our lives and allow to make life altering decisions with firearms. He's clearly not in it to protect and serve, so I believe having a guy like that on the streets is a danger to all.

[Raiders Army]

To paraphrase Adam Corrolla in a podcast I was listening to today: "He's like a guy with a boullion cube at the Soup Kitchen."

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I'm not expecting perfection. I do expect more from the cops than the family in this situation, but if the cop had at least let the guy go (or escort him in) after the nurse came down the first time, then at least his actions would make some sense.

QFT

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

He's clearly not in it to protect and serve, so I believe having a guy like that on the streets is a danger to all.

Not nearly as dangerous as not having him out there.

I've never met anyone with a badge & a gun who wasn't capable of having that same moment at some point in their career. Like most of the rest of us they're human & prone to better or worse reactions to different situations. And I say that having had the privilege of knowing some incredibly fine officers over the years, some truly amazing people.

Anecdotally one of those (without a doubt the best damn cop I ever saw) was murdered while making a routine traffic stop, another was killed by a shotgun blast from a concealed homeowner while walking up the driveway to serve a minor warrant on an otherwise peaceful Saturday morning. That sort of job environment brings a whole different level of stress than 99.9 percent of the rest of us have to deal with at work.

[Mustang]

I think the general sentiment around here is that at some point, the stressful situation and understanding what is going on has diminished. The officer has to realize this at some point especially at 13 minutes in when the nurse shows up. Yes, laws are laws, but there is any number of things that officer could have done to show some basic human decency after he has assessed the situation and determined that Moats was not a threat. Things like that coming out don't do the rest of the Dallas police force any favors in the court of public opinion.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Radii

I'm not taking the cop's side against the family. He didn't act perfectly. I have said 2 or 3 times now that I was greatly offended by the cop's actions towards the end of the video, and you're absolutely right in that that was uncalled for.

But I am saying that both parties were put into a very, very high stress situation and things simply do not go perfectly in high stress situations. And, while its understandable why the family was under such stress, they are completely at fault for generating the high stress situation.


The cop should have handled the situation better. But to call him a cocksucker who deserves to be fired is just awful. To say that he should have figured out in 30 seconds the entire situation and resolved it perfectly based on what we know actually was happening is flawed at best.

You're right. How dare the family's mother in law be dying when this cop has other citizens to harass.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by jeff061

No it's not. I couldn't handle it. That's why any idiot shouldn't be allowed to be one.

And fortunately not all the idiots that try to be one get to be one... But there are always bad apples.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I watched the video. The lady looks to be explaining to the cop that her Mother is dying. They are right next to the entrance to the Emergency Room. I know most cops aren't Rhodes scholars, but this looks fairly self explanatory.

I'll give him some leeway on the gun. But it's clear after 30 seconds that this was not a dangerous situation. The threats made by the cop show what his true intentions were.

The main issue I want to bring up though is it's not the cop had just saw him run a light. The light was ran far enough away from the entrance from the hospital that the drive could have been making up the story and using the hospital has an excuse.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

And fortunately not all the idiots that try to be one get to be one... But there are always bad apples.

I've seen a few bad apples get rejected. They spend a year or two as a security guard somewhere, hang out and network with cops, and eventually break-in with another city. Anyone can be a cop if they are persistent.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I've seen a few bad apples get rejected. They spend a year or two as a security guard somewhere, hang out and network with cops, and eventually break-in with another city. Anyone can be a cop if they are persistent.

Tell that to the group of guys I know that have been waiting 2+ years to get into the force in various cities.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Not nearly as dangerous as not having him out there.

I've never met anyone with a badge & a gun who wasn't capable of having that same moment at some point in their career. Like most of the rest of us they're human & prone to better or worse reactions to different situations. And I say that having had the privilege of knowing some incredibly fine officers over the years, some truly amazing people.

Anecdotally one of those (without a doubt the best damn cop I ever saw) was murdered while making a routine traffic stop, another was killed by a shotgun blast from a concealed homeowner while walking up the driveway to serve a minor warrant on an otherwise peaceful Saturday morning. That sort of job environment brings a whole different level of stress than 99.9 percent of the rest of us have to deal with at work.

John did you watch the video? he isnt worried about being shot when he turns his back to the suspect who is out of his car and un restrained and then does not address the situation while sitting in his car. there were more police 101 rules broken here than I can count. That said, had I been Moates I would have calmly and with my hands clearly visible walked into the hospital; he would not have been arrested inside.

[molson]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I've seen a few bad apples get rejected. They spend a year or two as a security guard somewhere, hang out and network with cops, and eventually break-in with another city. Anyone can be a cop if they are persistent.

It depends on the city.

I've seen departments in Idaho so desperate for officers they advertise in California.

I also remember being blown away by the number of applicants who started out the process v. those who actually became cops in one random Rhode Island town I worked for.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

The main issue I want to bring up though is it's not the cop had just saw him run a light. The light was ran far enough away from the entrance from the hospital that the drive could have been making up the story and using the hospital has an excuse.

That's fine, but it was pretty clear once the nurse came out the first time that he wasn't bullshitting.

Let the guy go build his ego as a mall cop. He has no business carrying a weapon and serving the people.

[RainMaker]

My only bad cop story was when I was in college. My roommate had just had some oral surgery and was pretty drugged up for the rest of the day. He needed to go to Walgreens late at night to pick up some ice cream and some ice packs.

I took him and as we were leaving he apparently walked through the entrance way instead of the exit way and had to maneuver around the cop that was entering (this wasn't intentional, he was pretty loopy from the drugs and not the kind of guy that starts trouble). The cop shoved him from behind and yelled something about showing respect. My friend was on a good dose of vicodin and still woozy from whatever he had during surgery. He looked real confused and didn't say anything. The cop grabbed him by the neck and slammed him up against the brick wall. I thought maybe the cop thought he was drunk so I kind of jumped in and told him he's just out of surgery. The cop told me to shut the fuck up or I'd be arrested.

The blow against the wall blew open the stitches in his mouth and he started bleeding pretty good from there. I think the cop realized he had gone too far and let go and told us to get the hell out of there. We went to my car and I was trying to get something for him to catch the blood in. The cop came storming out there then and told us to go straight home or we'd be arrested for trespassing and resisting arrest. I told the guy he needs a doctor as his stitches look to be busted open. He told us we better go home and not to think about going anywhere else. The cop tailed us all the way back to our apartment.

The next day he had to get some stitches put back in. He also had a pretty big scrape along one side of his face from the brick wall. He filed a complaint but the cop denied everything and claimed he was drunk and fell down on the pavement. They didn't really take it very seriously anyway.

It's not a big deal either now that I'm in Chicago. That kind of stuff here is normal for cops, usually much worse. This cop beat the shit out of some innocent bartender while his cop buddy looked on. They didn't charge him (despite the tape) until it hit the media a couple months later.

YouTube - Chicago Cop Beats Bartender - abc news

They also have a pretty good history of beating the shit out of women, drunk driving and killing people (then covering it up despite video tape evidence), and torturing suspects.

YouTube - Chicago Police beat woman

Tough to give them the benefit of the doubt when so much mounting evidence keeps showing up with them abusing their powers.

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by molson

Or less than 30 seconds to wait at a red light and skip all this drama.

Again, complete horseshit. No traffic stop takes 30 seconds. Have you EVER been pulled over a night in a city?

[MJ4H]

I think he said wait at the red light which would mean not breaking the law and thus not getting stopped in the first place. 30 seconds is a reasonable guess for that.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

As he's already clarified, he's suggesting he not run the red light in the first place, avoiding the traffic stop.

And he's got a point, difficult situation or not. I don't believe there's a mother-in-law dying exception in the lawbook. The question is whether the officer should have used his discretion to deal with this differently.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

Again, complete horseshit. No traffic stop takes 30 seconds. Have you EVER been pulled over a night in a city?

I think he meant 30 seconds if he would have stopped at the light and not ran it.

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by Mustang

I think he meant 30 seconds if he would have stopped at the light and not ran it.

Ah, OK. My bad.

[Noop]

Rainmaker, I know countless numbers of people (both black and white) who went through that stuff. I have myself mostly because of the car I drive and how I look (dread locks and the whole urban wardrobe) so much in fact what this jackass did was pretty damn tame. Molson post an article about people celebrating about the cop but to a certain extent I can see why.

I remember when a cop got jumped in high school, the guys that did it were hailed as heroes because that cop was known to fuck with people just because. I don't condone the murder of police but in the case of the officer getting jumped, he deserved it.