Did Anyone Pick up OOTP 8?

[RainMaker]

Apparently OOTP 8 was released in December and there is already a patch out for it. I was a huge fan of the series up till the move to SI when they went overboard with the game. I used to be one of those nerds who would login to their forum everyday waiting for the next release. I can't believe how far that game has fallen that I don't even care about their newest release.

So I was wondering if anyone has played this version and could let me know their thoughts. I was a guy that liked playing with the MLB rosters. I know the last 2 versions weren't built for guys who go that route. If Markus went back to the old style (6.5), I'd be real interested. If he stuck with the "I can setup leagues in Zimbabwe" route, I'll pass.

[johnnyshaka]

It is still the SI kind of game. I bought 2007 to join a particular MP league and couldn't even tell you how to even start a solo career. Like you, I dropped OOTP once they made the move to SI because I couldn't join their forums using a "free" email account. Huh??

Anyway, I believe 2008 was $5 "patch" for 2007 owners...no thanks.

[Coffee Warlord]

Damn. With the start of spring training, I was just thinking "whatever happened to OOTP", too.

Pity.

[molson]

Am I the only one that doesn't find the new OOTP really all that complicated? You're not required to run every new feature or have a league in Zimbabwe.

I've only used OOTP to play a small, fictional, old-timey kind of league with a few quirky setup options and no scouting or financials, and the game runs fast, efficiently and accurately (and it's fun).

It's no more complicated than Baseball Mogul in that environment, and the engine's WAY better.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Anyway, I believe 2008 was $5 "patch" for 2007 owners...no thanks.

Yeah I was going to wait until OOTP9 came out. A quick glance at the OOTP boards suggests nobody knows when that will occur and there's no info or anything on what improvements the game will have though.

[Icy]

I own it as i'm in the beta team, also play it in three online leagues and with the incoming baseball season i have started to play it solo again. Love the game and can't find it as difficult as other say.

Of course it can be improved in some areas (like coaches/scouts and finances) and i'm sure it will, can't say much more.

[Swaggs]

For me, the problems were that it was so different from any of the past versions of OOTP AND while I found past versions of OOTP to be fun games, the SI versions were more simulator than game.

Not necessarily better or worse, just vastly different.

Originally Posted by molson

Am I the only one that doesn't find the new OOTP really all that complicated? You're not required to run every new feature or have a league in Zimbabwe.

I've only used OOTP to play a small, fictional, old-timey kind of league with a few quirky setup options and no scouting or financials, and the game runs fast, efficiently and accurately (and it's fun).

It's no more complicated than Baseball Mogul in that environment, and the engine's WAY better.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

If he stuck with the "I can setup leagues in Zimbabwe" route, I'll pass.

Sorry, but this is now and always has been the DUMBEST reason to bash the newer versions of OOTP. You do realize there are no premade Zimbabwe leagues right? NO time was spent coding in financial info, roster rules, league modifiers, or anything else for leagues in any obscure countries (or any fictional leagues for that matter). Too me it's like saying "If he stuck with the "I can setup fictional leagues in the quad cities or based around the Great Lakes" route, I'll pass."

The ability to set up a league in a country like Zimbabwe in v2007\8 is no different than the ability in v6.5 and before to set up a small regional league in the midwest, southwest, or on the east coast. All that was done is OOTP "borrowed" a world cities and populations data base from FM. I mean if the info is available why limit it to just being able to add Japan, Korea, etc. when there is no cost to putting it in. Other than of course the silly "why would I want a league in the Congo?" criticism that has no merit.

If you want to criticize the how hard it is for roster makers to do their thing, fair enough. The game does need the old ability to be able to create players by simply inputting stats instead of trying to guess what ratings will produce what results. Same for if you don't like the GUI, though IMHO with very little effort it is just as easy to get around in as 6.5. I know some online players have complaints with file sizes and other issues. I can't comment on them since I only play solo but these are fair game as they seem to affect the quality of the game for these particular users.

But this continual criticism of OOTP for adding the ability to put fictional leagues in more locations than previous versions at no cost to gameplay is just plain stupid.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

So I was wondering if anyone has played this version and could let me know their thoughts. I was a guy that liked playing with the MLB rosters. I know the last 2 versions weren't built for guys who go that route. If Markus went back to the old style (6.5), I'd be real interested. If he stuck with the "I can setup leagues in Zimbabwe" route, I'll pass.

I ignore most of the new features. I play an 8 team fictional league with 3 levels of minors. I turn off all the features that I think suck: Scouting, Morale, International stuff, facegen doesn't work for me....

The historical information it keeps is pretty cool. The player development is decent and you can hit the balance you'd like on injuries and things like that. The AI just is horrendous though - pretty much you end up not being able to trade in a solo game because there is no setting that actually 'works'. You either are handed great players by the AI, or it won't make any deal with you at all.

Jim quit screwing around making card games and make a baseball game. Please. Begging you.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Anyway, I believe 2008 was $5 "patch" for 2007 owners...no thanks.

To be fair OOTP 8 is the non-SI brand of OOTP 2007. With the split from SI Markus retained the rights to OOTP and again became independent. He cannot sell OOTP2007 but can still sell the game under a different name. The $5 price for previous owners came about at the request of 2007 owners as there were some very minor tweaks in AI and some type of accomplishments board added.
Both games otherwise are identical and play nicely together. It was hardly put out as a $5 patch that you must have. As a matter of fact I would guess most did not upgrade and many that did, did so to as a way to get ootp for $5 and then gift it to either a son\father as a way to let someone else try the game.

[cougarfreak]

I play it, enjoy it. I don't find it more difficult that version 6.5, I turn off scouting and coaches.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Sorry, but this is now and always has been the DUMBEST reason to bash the newer versions of OOTP. You do realize there are no premade Zimbabwe leagues right? NO time was spent coding in financial info, roster rules, league modifiers, or anything else for leagues in any obscure countries (or any fictional leagues for that matter). Too me it's like saying "If he stuck with the "I can setup fictional leagues in the quad cities or based around the Great Lakes" route, I'll pass."

The ability to set up a league in a country like Zimbabwe in v2007\8 is no different than the ability in v6.5 and before to set up a small regional league in the midwest, southwest, or on the east coast. All that was done is OOTP "borrowed" a world cities and populations data base from FM. I mean if the info is available why limit it to just being able to add Japan, Korea, etc. when there is no cost to putting it in. Other than of course the silly "why would I want a league in the Congo?" criticism that has no merit.

If you want to criticize the how hard it is for roster makers to do their thing, fair enough. The game does need the old ability to be able to create players by simply inputting stats instead of trying to guess what ratings will produce what results. Same for if you don't like the GUI, though IMHO with very little effort it is just as easy to get around in as 6.5. I know some online players have complaints with file sizes and other issues. I can't comment on them since I only play solo but these are fair game as they seem to affect the quality of the game for these particular users.

But this continual criticism of OOTP for adding the ability to put fictional leagues in more locations than previous versions at no cost to gameplay is just plain stupid.

I think the point is that the game has not improved since OOTP6.5 and some would even say that it took a step backwards. The FM-style of play gets most of the blame and that won't ever change...right or wrong.

[miked]

Originally Posted by Sweed

To be fair OOTP 8 is the non-SI brand of OOTP 2007. With the split from SI Markus retained the rights to OOTP and again became independent. He cannot sell OOTP2007 but can still sell the game under a different name. The $5 price for previous owners came about at the request of 2007 owners as there were some very minor tweaks in AI and some type of accomplishments board added.
Both games otherwise are identical and play nicely together. It was hardly put out as a $5 patch that you must have. As a matter of fact I would guess most did not upgrade and many that did, did so to as a way to get ootp for $5 and then gift it to either a son\father as a way to let someone else try the game.

Correct, if it were a patch, some of the lingering bugs would have been fixed. I didn't buy OOTP8 and I can't see myself buying any new version unless it clearly fixes a lot of the remaining bugs. I don't understand the whole...we need a new version every year so we have to stop working on the old version. IMO, Jim puts Markus to shame in this department. He doesn't feel the need to re-release a new version every season with old bugs still unfixed and a few new features, half of which work correctly.

[headtrauma]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

I think the point is that the game has not improved since OOTP6.5 and some would even say that it took a step backwards. The FM-style of play gets most of the blame and that won't ever change...right or wrong.

+1

I lacked the energy to learn a new interface and I saw few compelling upgrades over 6.5. I haven't touched the game in 2 years.

[Buccaneer]

I still only play historical with lahman as I have done for years and found the pre-SI versions to be better at that.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by miked

Correct, if it were a patch, some of the lingering bugs would have been fixed. I didn't buy OOTP8 and I can't see myself buying any new version unless it clearly fixes a lot of the remaining bugs. I don't understand the whole...we need a new version every year so we have to stop working on the old version. IMO, Jim puts Markus to shame in this department. He doesn't feel the need to re-release a new version every season with old bugs still unfixed and a few new features, half of which work correctly.

This is the problem with OOTP more than the interface or SI approach.

From a developmental standpoint there was really very little that could have been added to 6.5 so I commend Markus for shaking things up and trying to take his game to another level. Text sims have become very stale over the years and the primary cause is lack of innovation. Developers tend to play it safe and each version of a game tends to have the "been there, done that feel to it". I've seen quite a few people complain about this, yet they don't take into consideration that when you have a very small development team the game is almost guaranteed to take a step back whent here's a major overhaul to the engine or interface.

The most frustrating thing about the game is the fact that there's problems with the game that date back to at least version 3 (thats when I started playing). Markus at some point needs to stop making new versions and focus on fixing the things that need fixed. There's simply no excuse for some of the problems that are in the game right now.

[Fidatelo]

I'm still at 6.5 too, I see no reason to upgrade.

[Coder]

I'm hoping OOTP9 improves in certain key areas:

1) Ability to watch a game play out after it was simmed (a la Solevision).
2) Better Staff-management, both "free agency" and organizational restructuring

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

I think the point is that the game has not improved since OOTP6.5 and some would even say that it took a step backwards. The FM-style of play gets most of the blame and that won't ever change...right or wrong.

And that's fine but trying to make the point by using "leagues in Zimbabwe" is stupid. There are many opinions on whether ootp improved or not and endless threads devoted to the subject. You say it has not improved, IMHO it is vastly improved. But whether the game has improved or not has nothing to do with the ability to create a league in Ghana (last years favorite country to bitch about) that's just a silly argument. These leagues are nothing more than any other fictional league that could be created in v6.5 and before.

As far as the FM-style, these leagues in Zimbabwe have nothing to do with the FM-style. FM doesn't allow you to create any fictional leagues anywhere
it's an ootp thing. As I said before a league in Zimbabwe is no different than a fictional Great Lakes League based in Michigan and Ohio. So, unless you (generic you) are in the camp that says OOTP should be a structured MLB type game (something I'd be comfortable with) like FOF to the NFL why are you bitching about ootp's ability to make fictional leagues, a feature of every version I've owned? It simply doesn't make sense.

[MizzouRah]

It has definitely passed me by. I have ootp8, but I don't plan on getting any more versions of ootp since I don't ever play ootp8. For me, it's just too complicated.. dare I say I prefer Baseball Mogul now? :o

I'd still like to see what Markus has planned now that he's on his own again.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Sorry, but this is now and always has been the DUMBEST reason to bash the newer versions of OOTP. You do realize there are no premade Zimbabwe leagues right? NO time was spent coding in financial info, roster rules, league modifiers, or anything else for leagues in any obscure countries (or any fictional leagues for that matter). Too me it's like saying "If he stuck with the "I can setup fictional leagues in the quad cities or based around the Great Lakes" route, I'll pass."

The ability to set up a league in a country like Zimbabwe in v2007\8 is no different than the ability in v6.5 and before to set up a small regional league in the midwest, southwest, or on the east coast. All that was done is OOTP "borrowed" a world cities and populations data base from FM. I mean if the info is available why limit it to just being able to add Japan, Korea, etc. when there is no cost to putting it in. Other than of course the silly "why would I want a league in the Congo?" criticism that has no merit.

If you want to criticize the how hard it is for roster makers to do their thing, fair enough. The game does need the old ability to be able to create players by simply inputting stats instead of trying to guess what ratings will produce what results. Same for if you don't like the GUI, though IMHO with very little effort it is just as easy to get around in as 6.5. I know some online players have complaints with file sizes and other issues. I can't comment on them since I only play solo but these are fair game as they seem to affect the quality of the game for these particular users.

But this continual criticism of OOTP for adding the ability to put fictional leagues in more locations than previous versions at no cost to gameplay is just plain stupid.

The "leages in Zimbabwe" line is more or less a knock at how over-the-top and complicated you can setup the game. I said it when this idea was thrown out for the first version at SI, there is simply no way you can develop a game that will flow right with that amount of customization. It's just impossible to expect a MLB like setup will work as well as a 42 team league with 6 minor leagues and 4 feeder leagues with their own minor leagues. These past two versions showed that with an insane amount of issues from duplicating players, a free agency system completely screwed up, bad CPU AI team management issues.

My biggest issue is that they went away from any semblance of an MLB setup. The game doesn't play well with an MLB type league. There are too many issues with roster management and the minors to make it play as well as 6.5. They made the rosters impossible to build and didn't work with them in any acceptable fashion. OOTP had it's customize league players, but the bulk of their buyers were those playing MLB style leagues or using the Lahman database to play a historical league. These past two versions are not catered to those gamers at all. They simply spit on those buyers to appease a few vocal forum members who wanted 10 league, 43 minor league, 8 feeder leagues from 12 country universes.

And the game simply became too complicated. On 6.5 I could spend a few hours setting up my league and be happy for the whole season. The new interface might be friendly to some, but it just made minor things extremely time consuming. You have to create GMs, "act as manager", play as commissioner, etc. It took me forever to figure out how to just want to play as the GM for a team and manage their major league team. Reading the board at that time, I wasn't the only one who had this issue. Adjusting lineups, moving players around, etc were just tasks that became more time consuming.

So don't give me this "all he did was add some fictional league functionality" to the game. He changed everything. He made it a game that a casual gamer couldn't pick up on and turned it into a game only a select few could really get into. He destroyed the most important aspect of the game (playing historical and MLB style leagues). But don't take my word for it, just see how many people buy this game still. How active the boards are. How many leagues are running. It's a sad situation. So while it made a few hardcore text simmers happy, it destroyed a franchise.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Sweed

You say it has not improved, IMHO it is vastly improved.

So you consider having to turn off most of the "new features" to even make it playable a vastly improved product?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Atocep

This is the problem with OOTP more than the interface or SI approach.

From a developmental standpoint there was really very little that could have been added to 6.5 so I commend Markus for shaking things up and trying to take his game to another level. Text sims have become very stale over the years and the primary cause is lack of innovation. Developers tend to play it safe and each version of a game tends to have the "been there, done that feel to it". I've seen quite a few people complain about this, yet they don't take into consideration that when you have a very small development team the game is almost guaranteed to take a step back whent here's a major overhaul to the engine or interface.

The most frustrating thing about the game is the fact that there's problems with the game that date back to at least version 3 (thats when I started playing). Markus at some point needs to stop making new versions and focus on fixing the things that need fixed. There's simply no excuse for some of the problems that are in the game right now.

I don't see how that was the case. Why couldn't Markus change the way games are simmed like he did in the new version without messing with everything else? Why couldn't he fix some of the issues with free agency, Rule IV, etc? Sure these aren't gamebreaking changes, but would have made the game much better.

I just never thought ver. 6 was a bad game. While people had complaints about it, most still played it. With the last two versions, most people just plain hated it and stopped playing OOTP. Sometimes the "safe" approach is the better approach.

I'd love for him to go back to Version 6, update the code and bring back his fans. What he has been on the past few years is an utter disaster.

[molson]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It took me forever to figure out how to just want to play as the GM for a team and manage their major league team.

Really????

It takes me about 45 seconds to set up a league and I ain't no genius.

There's under-the-hood issues like there are with any game. I'm still overwhelmed with this "duh....this is too hard" criticism.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

Really????

It takes me about 45 seconds to set up a league and I ain't no genius.

There's under-the-hood issues like there are with any game. I'm still overwhelmed with this "duh....this is too hard" criticism.

I think you'd be in the minority. I remember the board had a years worth of "how do i setup this" type threads when the first SI version was released. I don't know how you could setup an MLB style league where you control one team in 45 seconds. But then maybe me and the other thousands of people who don't buy this game anymore are just slow.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't see how that was the case. Why couldn't Markus change the way games are simmed like he did in the new version without messing with everything else? Why couldn't he fix some of the issues with free agency, Rule IV, etc? Sure these aren't gamebreaking changes, but would have made the game much better.

I just never thought ver. 6 was a bad game. While people had complaints about it, most still played it. With the last two versions, most people just plain hated it and stopped playing OOTP. Sometimes the "safe" approach is the better approach.

I'd love for him to go back to Version 6, update the code and bring back his fans. What he has been on the past few years is an utter disaster.

Version 6 wasn't a bad game, it was best in the series and probably still is. From a long-term development standpoint that engine had run its course, though. Could he have fixed existing issues? Sure. But some of those date back to version 3 or earlier, so I'm not going to hold out hope for them to be fixed nor will I fault the engine for being the reason they aren't fixed.

The engine and interface as they are now have the potential to do a whole lot more than v6 could have ever possibly done. Realize that it took Markus 6 versions with that engine to get it to the point that it was at. He's made two versions with the current engine and its infinitely better than OOTP 2, 3, 4, and 5 were.

The safe approach is why a lot of text sim fans are getting tired of the genre. I'd be willing to bet the majority of the people here play less text sims than they did 3-4 years ago. The games simply aren't taking steps forward. Markus has taken a chance and he has my respect for it. Whether I like the game or not, he's trying to improve his game and raise the bar for the genre.

[molson]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I think you'd be in the minority. I remember the board had a years worth of "how do i setup this" type threads when the first SI version was released. I don't know how you could setup an MLB style league where you control one team in 45 seconds. But then maybe me and the other thousands of people who don't buy this game anymore are just slow.

If you look back at that first FOFC "new version" OOTP thread it's a pretty interesting evolution of opinion. For the first 10-15 pages, OOTP is the greatest text sim ever. Nobody had any trouble with setting up a league, and people were fired about the customization options. After about 15 pages, the tide turned quickly, mostly about issues with AI roster management and some other nagging bugs.

Here are the steps:
-Add Fictional League
-Fill in Info on Six Tabs to fit your preferences:
1. Structure (League/Division Size, Names)
2. Names and Affiliations (Team Names, Award Names)
3. League Rules (DH/Roster Size/Rule 5/Trading/Financial Rules)
4. Options (Playoff Structure/Hall of Fame Requirements/Schedule and All-Star Game Options)
5. Strategy (Player Creation Modifiers/General Strategic Tendencies)
6. Game Options (Tweak Photos/Development Speed/Rating Scale/AI Player Evaluation Options).

That's it. It's a lot of stuff, no question, but it's not beyond the intelligence of a normal human being (I guess unless you don't know what the DH is, etc).

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by molson

There's under-the-hood issues like there are with any game. I'm still overwhelmed with this "duh....this is too hard" criticism.

Agreed. The only beef I had with OOTP 2007 was the time it took before some MLB rosters came out.

[Cringer]

I liked 7, or whatever the last SI version was. It probably had my best OOTP career ever in that. PureSim will probably be the next baseball game I get though, I just really had fun with that when I had it up and running.

[korme]

I'm still using OOTP 2007 and cannot keep the game from crashing for an unknown reason.... 51 years of a historial replay appear to be going down the drain

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

If you look back at that first FOFC "new version" OOTP thread it's a pretty interesting evolution of opinion. For the first 10-15 pages, OOTP is the greatest text sim ever. Nobody had any trouble with setting up a league, and people were fired about the customization options. After about 15 pages, the tide turned quickly, mostly about issues with AI roster management and some other nagging bugs.

Here are the steps:
-Add Fictional League
-Fill in Info on Six Tabs to fit your preferences:
1. Structure (League/Division Size, Names)
2. Names and Affiliations (Team Names, Award Names)
3. League Rules (DH/Roster Size/Rule 5/Trading/Financial Rules)
4. Options (Playoff Structure/Hall of Fame Requirements/Schedule and All-Star Game Options)
5. Strategy (Player Creation Modifiers/General Strategic Tendencies)
6. Game Options (Tweak Photos/Development Speed/Rating Scale/AI Player Evaluation Options).

That's it. It's a lot of stuff, no question, but it's not beyond the intelligence of a normal human being (I guess unless you don't know what the DH is, etc).

I'm talking with MLB rosters. Didn't they make it impossible to build rosters for this version? I really only played it with MLB rosters.

I think they made a lot of areas of the game too cumbersome and time consuming (I like playing out all my games for a team). I never understood the "Commisioner Mode" "Act as TEAMNAME", Create Manager, etc. Just seemed like it never worked out right. I just wanted to control the Cubs, control the roster decisions in the minors, and play out the games on the big league level. Almost all the new features that were added had to be turned off just to make the game play reasonably well (coaches, scouts, etc). It just came across like a much more complicated and time consuming game that had more bugs than versions built 4 years ago. That's a series that went backwards.

[korme]

I don't understand how you had trouble. "Commish mode" is for people who like to oversee an entire league.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

I don't understand how you had trouble. "Commish mode" is for people who like to oversee an entire league.

Well I'd want to play as the Cubs. But if I just controlled them, the other teams would release a ton of stars to free agency and fuck up their roster.

Also, how would I just control the Cubs, be their GM, but also manage their major league games? It seemed if I was managing the ML roster, the minor league transactions would happen on their own.

[jbergey22]

Yeah,

Im not sure if agree with a lot of the criticisms. I despised OOTP2006 with a passion because it seemed to get nothing right BUT with the newest version OOTP8 I cant seem to play enough of it. I can do anything I want to set the game up like I want. I play OOTP6.5 setup, MLB plus 3 minor league sytems. I change trading to Hard and heavily favoring prospects. This makes the AI trading on par with that of real baseball, they dont trade prospects for cheap and will only accept trades that improve their situation. The sky is the limit for this version.

I do agree that free agent AI is flawed. I see a team resign a guy to a huge contract and release him a month later but that was happening in 6.5 as well.

To summarize I was with a lot of you that thought 6.5 was the best version until I decided to sit down and actually play the newer versions. The sim speed is so much faster and after a few hours of playing everything flows smoothly just like any sim you put time into playing.

[korme]

BTW, does anyone have any ideas on why my game is crashing? It seems to be crashing every time it tries to sim past the trade deadline

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

BTW, does anyone have any ideas on why my game is crashing? It seems to be crashing every time it tries to sim past the trade deadline

I havent heard of too many crashing bugs. Have you tried redownloading the game and uninstalling what you currently have? They claim Antivirus software can cause problems athough Ive never had that issue.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The "leages in Zimbabwe" line is more or less a knock at how over-the-top and complicated you can setup the game. I said it when this idea was thrown out for the first version at SI, there is simply no way you can develop a game that will flow right with that amount of customization. It's just impossible to expect a MLB like setup will work as well as a 42 team league with 6 minor leagues and 4 feeder leagues with their own minor leagues. These past two versions showed that with an insane amount of issues from duplicating players, a free agency system completely screwed up, bad CPU AI team management issues.

My biggest issue is that they went away from any semblance of an MLB setup. The game doesn't play well with an MLB type league. There are too many issues with roster management and the minors to make it play as well as 6.5. They made the rosters impossible to build and didn't work with them in any acceptable fashion. OOTP had it's customize league players, but the bulk of their buyers were those playing MLB style leagues or using the Lahman database to play a historical league. These past two versions are not catered to those gamers at all. They simply spit on those buyers to appease a few vocal forum members who wanted 10 league, 43 minor league, 8 feeder leagues from 12 country universes.

And the game simply became too complicated. On 6.5 I could spend a few hours setting up my league and be happy for the whole season. The new interface might be friendly to some, but it just made minor things extremely time consuming. You have to create GMs, "act as manager", play as commissioner, etc. It took me forever to figure out how to just want to play as the GM for a team and manage their major league team. Reading the board at that time, I wasn't the only one who had this issue. Adjusting lineups, moving players around, etc were just tasks that became more time consuming.

So don't give me this "all he did was add some fictional league functionality" to the game. He changed everything. He made it a game that a casual gamer couldn't pick up on and turned it into a game only a select few could really get into. He destroyed the most important aspect of the game (playing historical and MLB style leagues). But don't take my word for it, just see how many people buy this game still. How active the boards are. How many leagues are running. It's a sad situation. So while it made a few hardcore text simmers happy, it destroyed a franchise.

Well, some others have posted on how it's not really hard to set up a league so I won't comment further.

In your situation trying to use a current MLB roster set is bad. My point though was using Ghana (as was the thing last year) or Zimbabwe doesn't really address any of your issues nor get your message across. It's complaining about something that has no effect on your situation at all. I mean if you can't create a league in Zimbabwe than you can't create a MLB league either, they both use the same setup screens. So it does come across as silly. Simply stating "I can't seem to be able to set up a current MLB game that works the way I want it to" would have been much more informative.

I agree that the roster making ability of the "new" ootp needs to be changed and sooner rather than later. It's not that rosters can't be made it's just that it's too complicated. You can't simply enter stats and personality traits and then have the cpu generate a player based on that. Instead you have to build your player with ratings to do what you want him to do. This becomes hard because what ratings do you give ARod? What ratings do you give a scrub? I don't think you know until you try and test. Hardly a fast way to get things done. I'm not a programmer but if one can import stats from Lehman and get a roster made why can't one enter stats and get the same?
Until this is changed I think all roster makers are going to have a hard time.

Your original post doesn't say but have you played v2007? Or are all of your opinions based on v2006? As others have stated v2007, which for all intents and purposes, is the same as OOTP8 is leaps and bounds ahead of 2006 in ease of use. However 2007\v8 have the same current roster making issues.

One more thing about current rosters and their makers. They get so much pressure to include all of the real players from rookie A to the Majors and this complicates and adds thousands of hours to the development. IMHO they should make either a MLB 40 man roster set or preferably a MLB set with teams top 5-10 prospects first and release that allowing users to fill their minors with fictional or ghost\fictional players then move on to the full minors. This would get things to a manageable 800-1200 players instead of trying make the 5000(?) plus players it takes to do the minors. Not to mention the time it takes to research all of the nobodies in the minors that will never have even a remote chance of getting anywhere near the majors.

[jbergey22]

I just wanted to add one thing about how great it is that this game can be managed how you want.

I was playing as the twins and was going to offer Johan Santana an extension, he was only asking for around 16 million per year so I want and messed around the financial options so he would demand the 24+ million he was going to get on todays market.

In doing so it made the extensions I had to give Morneau and Cuddyer pretty much dead on as too what they really got IRL. In any other sim I wouldnt have the option to change free agent pricing to what it should be modern day and basically screwed over the computer AI. Instead I had to make a decision in which I did exactly what the twins did, I couldnt afford all 3 so I traded Johan and resigned Cuddyer and Morneau and left me the ability to resign Mauer in 3 years.

I am certain within 2-3 years this game will be on course with FM/WWSM and the two games every simmer must have.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

So you consider having to turn off most of the "new features" to even make it playable a vastly improved product?

The only feature I don't use is scouting other countries for hidden talent. I'm not having any problems, maybe I'm just lucky?

Seriously I can trace back most transactions and they do make sense.
Teams actually sign star players to extensions never letting them get near free agency.

I've lost players to the ruleV draft and minor league FA that have become productive MLB players. These guys would still be stuck in my minor leagues if I were playing v6.5 and before.

My scouts do their jobs (takes me about 5 minutes to set up their schedules for the entire year) and sometime give me conflicting reports. I get to decide who's opinion I trust.

My superstar pitchers are still superstars but they don't dominate the league like the did in 6.5.

My players develop at a more realistic pace, have better career paths, put up more realistic stats, etc. And all of those stats are kept in a format that rivals baseballreference.com.

Yeah, I guess you're right the game sucks

[watravaler]

Thinking about purchasing '08 or '07...where can I find MLB rosters for either version? Sorry for being lazy, but I'm pretty much set on buying the game if I can find a roster file...thanks in advance...

I haven't purchased this game since the 2nd version, and I played the hell out of it, so I'm probably out of the loop...

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by watravaler

Thinking about purchasing '08 or '07...where can I find MLB rosters for either version? Sorry for being lazy, but I'm pretty much set on buying the game if I can find a roster file...thanks in advance...

I haven't purchased this game since the 2nd version, and I played the hell out of it, so I'm probably out of the loop...

OOTP8 comes with real rosters.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

OOTP8 comes with real rosters.

Aren't the rosters all screwed up though? I just looked at the boards and they're talking about tons of duplicate players, etc.

[jbergey22]

The biggest issue I had with them were Fielding ratings declining at a rapid rate.

Cubbyfan rosters in the mod section is pretty well done.

[Ksyrup]

I just recently picked up 2007 again and have been essentially using it as a simulator, which is still fun. But that's it. I don't enjoy playing the game as a GM/manager. And even just watching the historical replays, I can see some serious problems that are easier to overlook because I'm not "in" the game as deeply, just watching. But I hate the mapping of the UI, the duplication of screens that, depending how you get there, have different info on them, the inability to view the simulation screen other than while the games are being simmed, even though it has the best overview of what's going on in the league, etc.

As far as under the hood stuff, the one thing that appears to be completely broken is being able to set the percentages of what the teams rely on in making their decisions - we have the ability to have GMs give zero emphasis on ratings, yet decisions are still made only on ratings. In fact, I'm not sure those percentages mean anything. I still see way too many players who have great years, they lose 1 or 2 points off of a couple of talent categories during the off-season, and they immediately get dumped into the minors or FA before the next season. I've got guys winning the Cy Young and not even pitching in the majors the next year because their stuff dropped from 11 to 10 and their movement from 15 to 14 and stuff like that. And that's with emphasis on ratings no better than 10%. Sign and release still happens at an unbelievable rate - in one of my replays, Lou Gehrig was signed and released about 25-30 times within 2 weeks. There are just too many things like that for me to be interested in investing time into actually playing the game. But I do love my stats, and the game is a very good simulator - if you can get over seeing Cy Young winners sitting in AAA the next year...

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I still see way too many players who have great years, they lose 1 or 2 points off of a couple of talent categories during the off-season, and they immediately get dumped into the minors or FA before the next season. I've got guys winning the Cy Young and not even pitching in the majors the next year because their stuff dropped from 11 to 10 and their movement from 15 to 14 and stuff like that. And that's with emphasis on ratings no better than 10%. Sign and release still happens at an unbelievable rate - in one of my replays, Lou Gehrig was signed and released about 25-30 times within 2 weeks. There are just too many things like that for me to be interested in investing time into actually playing the game. But I do love my stats, and the game is a very good simulator - if you can get over seeing Cy Young winners sitting in AAA the next year...

Wait a second, Sweed says this stuff never happens...I'm confused????

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Wait a second, Sweed says this stuff never happens...I'm confused????

I might have had a bad roster set, but I fell into the same boat Ksyrup did. The sign/release/sign/release stuff drove me up a wall. I also didn't like a lot of the decisions the AI made in regards to veterans. It seemed that the minute a veteran showed any sign of aging he was off to the minors. I know this was an issue in pre-SI versions, but it seemed more prominent in the latest installments. I had a tough time getting veterans into their mid-30's. I had been asking for years to add development that skewed in the direction most players go. For instance, a guy in his 30's may lose a little power and speed, but his ability to draw walks and contact should probably go up. His leadership may also make the players on the team a little better (kind of like how Coach on the Floor works in College Hoops series).

But the biggest difference I see with Sweedy is in coaches, scouting, etc. These functions seem to be flawed in many ways, and I'm not alone. Almost all the people on the board that I've read today are playing with these functions turned off. Financials are still a mess and with the new functions added to them are worse than 6.5.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Well, some others have posted on how it's not really hard to set up a league so I won't comment further.

In your situation trying to use a current MLB roster set is bad. My point though was using Ghana (as was the thing last year) or Zimbabwe doesn't really address any of your issues nor get your message across. It's complaining about something that has no effect on your situation at all. I mean if you can't create a league in Zimbabwe than you can't create a MLB league either, they both use the same setup screens. So it does come across as silly. Simply stating "I can't seem to be able to set up a current MLB game that works the way I want it to" would have been much more informative.

I agree that the roster making ability of the "new" ootp needs to be changed and sooner rather than later. It's not that rosters can't be made it's just that it's too complicated. You can't simply enter stats and personality traits and then have the cpu generate a player based on that. Instead you have to build your player with ratings to do what you want him to do. This becomes hard because what ratings do you give ARod? What ratings do you give a scrub? I don't think you know until you try and test. Hardly a fast way to get things done. I'm not a programmer but if one can import stats from Lehman and get a roster made why can't one enter stats and get the same?
Until this is changed I think all roster makers are going to have a hard time.

Your original post doesn't say but have you played v2007? Or are all of your opinions based on v2006? As others have stated v2007, which for all intents and purposes, is the same as OOTP8 is leaps and bounds ahead of 2006 in ease of use. However 2007\v8 have the same current roster making issues.

One more thing about current rosters and their makers. They get so much pressure to include all of the real players from rookie A to the Majors and this complicates and adds thousands of hours to the development. IMHO they should make either a MLB 40 man roster set or preferably a MLB set with teams top 5-10 prospects first and release that allowing users to fill their minors with fictional or ghost\fictional players then move on to the full minors. This would get things to a manageable 800-1200 players instead of trying make the 5000(?) plus players it takes to do the minors. Not to mention the time it takes to research all of the nobodies in the minors that will never have even a remote chance of getting anywhere near the majors.

The roster issues goes well beyond just the amount of players. Just reading the threads in the roster forum right now and there are loads of bugs with them. Duplicate players, fielding ratings going down to 0 at every position after a couple of years. The whole thing looks like a complete mess.

And that's where I'm upset with OOTP. They had a huge fan base who played with real rosters. Tons of leagues used it. Markus completely screwed up this aspect of the game and gave up that market. As much as I loved his earlier games, and as much as I love the series, Markus deserves the failure he is receiving the past few years due to horrendous development decisions that alienated a lot of his customers. There is no excuse I can think of for building a version of that game that was not customizable friendly in the roster department.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Wait a second, Sweed says this stuff never happens...I'm confused????

My league in a rar file is about 151mb. If you have a place I can upload it to you you are welcome to look it over. Might need some help on how to send it, I've only got Jim's FTP program and have rarely used it. Or if someone can point me to the league transaction file I'd be even more happy to just send that for your inspection, lot smaller and easier to do I would think.

I run a MLB setup with 5 levels of minors, Rookie-A up to AAA. I just looked over the transaction file for my just completed 2015 major league season month by month. If there's a sign and release in there you'll have to look much harder than I did to find it. Keep in mind the sign and release like he's talking about with Gehrig should show up without much looking.

FWIW I let the AI make all of my minor league moves I only control who gets called up to the major league club. Looking over my orginizations minor league transactions other than Feb and Sept, when players are called up for spring training or Sept call ups, I don't even have to scroll the screen to see all of the transactions for any month.

I then thought well I'll check out one of the low minors. I looked at the A ball
league transaction report, looks the same as the major league one. If there is sign and release going on there it's hiding pretty well. Certainly not sticking out like it did before in v2006.

I play out every inning of every game so my style is slow, I've only played three seasons with the SI branded game, one with v2006 and two with 2007 (though I did do probably 10 or 15 test leagues the majority with 2006 as 2007 didn't seem to need it to get up and running).

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The roster issues goes well beyond just the amount of players. Just reading the threads in the roster forum right now and there are loads of bugs with them. Duplicate players, fielding ratings going down to 0 at every position after a couple of years. The whole thing looks like a complete mess.

And that's where I'm upset with OOTP. They had a huge fan base who played with real rosters. Tons of leagues used it. Markus completely screwed up this aspect of the game and gave up that market. As much as I loved his earlier games, and as much as I love the series, Markus deserves the failure he is receiving the past few years due to horrendous development decisions that alienated a lot of his customers. There is no excuse I can think of for building a version of that game that was not customizable friendly in the roster department.

Yes, there are many issues with the rosters, I've already said it needs to be fixed. The rosters are user made, I believe by Erich(Rolen17) and until they can be done by inputing stats instead of ratings I don't think it will get any better. You have to "guess" for a lack of a better term to find the proper ratings mix to make players as you want them to be.

The reason I bring up the number of players is instead of making the 800-1200 players needed for the major leagues and testing, these guys are making them for all levels and testing. Don't you think they should prioritize getting the majors right first (if it can even be done with the current system) and then move down?

Hell, if your first post in the thread said you wouldn't be buying the game until this was fixed instead of about leagues in Zimbabwe I'd have been agreeing with you all the way.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

But the biggest difference I see with Sweedy is in coaches, scouting, etc. These functions seem to be flawed in many ways, and I'm not alone. Almost all the people on the board that I've read today are playing with these functions turned off. Financials are still a mess and with the new functions added to them are worse than 6.5.

From my time with ootp, v4 to the present, most didn't use scouts\managers before the move to SI either. I don't really know why. I suppose some thought it gave them an advantage while others didn't like the way it was implemented.
As a solo league player I've just always used scouts coaches\managers both 6.5 and before and now in 2006\2007. Never saw a good reason not to.