WW XCIV Group Therapy - Game Over! - Page 58

hoopsguy · 05-20-2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Lathum, assuming you are making that move as a villager - do you see that the wolves were willing to make that move today?

Telle was going to get nailed to a wall sometime soon by virtue of the heat she was getting in every direction and the fact that the person they knew was the seer was voting for her. They had a shot at both the seer and a roled Clap in the same day by allowing Telle to fail. And the late movers can pick up some trust in the process as an added bonus.

If you think that the wolves could think this way, then you look at that late movement a little bit differently.

Sure, if they thought they could get Clap lynched today then they keep their brutal for tomorrow. But what if the alternate target ended up being Saldana and Clap is still around at night to potentially block them (remember, they knew seer already, so what role is Clap going to have when they know he is a villager and not seer?) when they go for the seer? Was Saldana a wolf or a villager? If he was a wolf, then it was obviously easier to just give up Telle here.

Anyway, that is why I'm noting who had votes on the wolf but not calling out early/late movement on that particular vote.

Dubb, here was my post on that very topic from last night post-deadline.

dubb93 · 05-20-2009, 01:17 PM

If you look at the vote after the Martin vote for Telle there was a huge run on her. I think we may find some wolves in the voters after Martin placed his vote on her. I will include myself in the list since I was one of those voters even though I know I am a villager:

Abe
Saldana
Dubb
Lathum
MT
PF

All of these were unvotes EXCEPT for PF. I would look at the ones who unvoted and switched after the Martin vote and I have bolded those names. I have to think there are a couple of wolves in that list.

The Jackal · 05-20-2009, 01:19 PM

I'm going skating for a few hours, I'll be back but I'm going to put this out there for now.

VOTE ABE

dubb93 · 05-20-2009, 01:20 PM

I'm going with Abe for reasons I have stated above and on the last page.

Vote Abe

Abe Sargent · 05-20-2009, 01:21 PM

you think I would vote to go 5-4 on a wolf and break a tie, when I'm not going to be around later?

You think I'd jump way out in front on Day One as a wolf, knowing I would get major heat, just because I like to live dangerously as a wolf.

If you honestly think my play in this game has been anything wolfish, then you are either a wolf yourself, trying to throw suspicion on a villager, or you are absolutely rubbish at reading people in WW>

Abe Sargent · 05-20-2009, 01:22 PM

Now that Bk is dead, you will learn nothing from the revelation of my role if I die.

hoopsguy · 05-20-2009, 01:27 PM

Day 5 setup - assumption is that the wolves know that MartinD is the seer going into the day. Telle has been on block every day and has already drawn heat from the seer. It is clearly in their best interests to keep him quiet for one more day so they can night kill him.

#2452 - Poli continues his crusade against Telle, was started the night before when he called out for others to join him on the vote. At some point I would love to know how he was so sure when he wasn't the seer.

#2472 - Lathum puts a vote on me

#2476 - I put a vote on Clap, vote stays there for duration.

#2481 - Lathum moves to Saldana

#2494 - Saldana moves it to Lathum

#2501 - Chief votes Clap. At this point, do the wolves want to see Telle lynched? I'm not sure. Chief's vote stays for duration.

#2509 - Dubb votes Saldana

#2513 - Autumn votes Clap, says later he was following me and Chief (little nervous about this as the wolves know who is the seer right now, but still have Autumn pretty high on personal trust list)

#2521 - Abe votes for me

#2558 - MartinD votes Telle, which he has done pretty consistently for a couple of days now. But he has not revealed as the seer. I think by this point they are more or less ready to see Telle die just to keep MartinD from revealing and publishing his list.

#2587 - Telle votes for Clap, puts him in lead.

#2590 - PF votes Telle, tying it up again. PF did vote for Telle the previous day as well.

#2593 - Jackal votes for Saldana, introducing a new candidate to the vote

#2595 - Abe unvotes me, votes Telle into lead by one. I do not think there is a history of voting for Telle here.

#2598 - MT votes Clap, tying the vote one more time

#2604 - Saldana unvotes Lathum, votes Telle into lead 6-5. He has voted for Telle on D3, but I think that is only time.

#2614 - Lathum unvotes Saldana, votes Telle to push lead to 2. I don't think he has voted Telle previously but will double-check.

#2622 - Dubb unvotes Saldana, votes Telle, lead now 3. Again, will check previous votes but I'm really not suspecting Dubb right now.

#2635 - MT unvotes Clap, votes Telle. Once again, voting records to check.

hoopsguy · 05-20-2009, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

OK, new idea that I'll explore this morning when I finish my work commitments - who were the people who voted for Telle yesterday that did not vote for her when she had been in danger on earlier days?

I've got pretty good vote/unvote logs from each of the days so I'll look at those.

If anyone wants to chime in on this before I get the data up, I would love feedback on if this idea makes sense as a way to find a wolf. Obviously it is somewhat self-serving, since I never voted Telle (that I can recall) so I won't appear on this list. But I think that it makes for an interesting data point, at the very least.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubb93

If you look at the vote after the Martin vote for Telle there was a huge run on her. I think we may find some wolves in the voters after Martin placed his vote on her. I will include myself in the list since I was one of those voters even though I know I am a villager:

Abe
Saldana
Dubb
Lathum
MT
PF

All of these were unvotes EXCEPT for PF. I would look at the ones who unvoted and switched after the Martin vote and I have bolded those names. I have to think there are a couple of wolves in that list.

Once again, looks like our thinking today dovetails pretty nicely.

Abe Sargent · 05-20-2009, 01:30 PM

I pushed for Telle or hoops right after lynch revealed the Sympathizer seemingly protect either one or the other who were in the running at various times.

That gave me hard info, and I pushed for one or the other the entire day. When I voted for Telle, it was because the other one, hoops, was not getting votes, and I wanted to vote for one or the other based on Lerri's play.

hoopsguy · 05-20-2009, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autumn

This is quite ugly but here is the voting list that I have, Hoops.

The Jackal 1 PurdueBrad 2 Purdue 3 PurdueBrad 4 Lerriuqs 5 Claphamsa

Abe 1 ntndeacon 2 Purdue 3 PurdueBrad 4 Lerriuqs 5 Telle

PackerFanatic 1 ntndeacon 2 Eaglefan 3 PurdueBrad 4 Telle 5 Telle

Hoopsguy 1 Eaglefan 2 Purdue 3 Saldana 4 Claphamsa 5 Claphamsa

Lathum 1 Eaglefan 2 Purdue 3 PurdueBrad 4 Criticized 5 Telle Criticized

Poli 1 Telle 2 Eaglefan 3 Telle 4 Telle 5 Telle

Dubb93 1 Eaglefan 2 Eaglefan 3 Saldana 4 Lerriuqs 5 Telle

Autumn 1 Telle 2 Eaglefan 3 Telle 4 Telle 5 Claphamsa

Chief Rum 1 Eaglefan 2 Purdue 3 Saldana 4 Claphamsa 5 Claphamsa

DaddyTorgo 1 ntndeacon 2 Eaglefan 3 PurdueBrad 4 Lerriuqs 5 Telle

Saldana 1 dubb 2 Hoopsguy 3 Telle 4 Lerriuqs 5 Telle

Going to be referencing this in a second ...

hoopsguy · 05-20-2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubb93

If you look at the vote after the Martin vote for Telle there was a huge run on her. I think we may find some wolves in the voters after Martin placed his vote on her. I will include myself in the list since I was one of those voters even though I know I am a villager:

Abe
Saldana
Dubb
Lathum
MT
PF

All of these were unvotes EXCEPT for PF. I would look at the ones who unvoted and switched after the Martin vote and I have bolded those names. I have to think there are a couple of wolves in that list.

Abe - D5 was first time his final vote was Telle all game.
Saldana - had what seems to me to have been a significant vote on Telle on D3.
Dubb - D5 was first time his final vote was Telle all game. But based on re-read I'm not terribly suspicious of him.
Lathum - D5 was first time his final vote was Telle all game. In fairness, was criticized one day but I don't recall him putting much pressure on her on D4 (again, correct if I'm wrong)
MT - D5 was first time his final vote was Telle all game.
PF - also voted for Telle on D4, vote yesterday was not an unvote.

saldana · 05-20-2009, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

#2160 - Saldana votes Lerri. He had a good Telle vote the previous day but now is falling in line on Lerri. What changed for him on Telle? This vote never moves.

my vote for telle the day before was based on a post by Barkeep that made me think he was the seer....he said he felt good about voting for her before, but was more excited about it today....he then came up dead and not the seer, so i at that point shifted my thoughts off of her.

hoopsguy · 05-20-2009, 01:40 PM

Day 5 voters (non-Telle):
Jackal
Hoops (I'm clearing myself, for whatever that is worth)
Autumn
Chief (I'm vouching for him)
Telle (wolf)

hoopsguy · 05-20-2009, 01:45 PM

I'm pretty sure my vote today will be between Lathum, Abe, and MT.

Saldana and Jackal are a little further back on my distrust list right now.

I cannot see a situation where I vote for Chief, Poli, Dubb, PF, or Autumn this afternoon.

hoopsguy · 05-20-2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I have a PM in to Danny to see if I can address this

How is this working out for you, Lathum?

hoopsguy · 05-20-2009, 01:57 PM

I'm going to go with Lathum today. I think his role is BS, he has never put any real pressure on Telle, and the "No Vote" thing is actually working out to his advantage to some extent because he isn't having to justify votes.

I recognize that this is a stretch compared to some of the other candidates that have been floated but I think there is a pretty good likelihood that there is a veteran wolf who is letting some of the veteran villagers stick around to help with creating a smokescreen. I trust Chief, Dubb, and Poli so that starts to thin the herd a little bit on who would be the "vet wolf".

The Day 1 vote on EF is about the only thing that I can't quite rationalize with his play right now.

VOTE LATHUM

Autumn · 05-20-2009, 02:04 PM

Abe, PackerFanatic, Lathum, Poli and Dubb are the only players I don't think I have figured out at this point. I think three of them are wolves, two villagers. Voting history doesn't peg all three of them, but I'll keep looking.

hoopsguy · 05-20-2009, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autumn

Abe, PackerFanatic, Lathum, Poli and Dubb are the only players I don't think I have figured out at this point. I think three of them are wolves, two villagers. Voting history doesn't peg all three of them, but I'll keep looking.

So are you willing to share some of your conclusions on the other players, other than that you think they are villagers?

Lathum · 05-20-2009, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

How is this working out for you, Lathum?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

I'll address this here, for the most part I'd prefer discussion to be on the voting analysis, etc... and less on exploring roles, I really don't want any potential reveals to go any further.

--

hoopsguy · 05-20-2009, 02:14 PM

Lathum, maybe my vote on you will trigger your condition. One can only hope. But I'm excited about the prospect of seeing your way-cool role out in the open to the benefit of all villagers.

Lathum · 05-20-2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Lathum, maybe my vote on you will trigger your condition. One can only hope. But I'm excited about the prospect of seeing your way-cool role out in the open to the benefit of all villagers.

seriously, fucking stop putting words in my mouth.

I never said it was way cool. I said it is helpful to the village.

hoopsguy · 05-20-2009, 02:19 PM

OK, then I hope that I'm helping the village by voting for you.

Lathum · 05-20-2009, 02:19 PM

Clever set up by hoops btw. I highly recommend you guys not following him, amazing he waited until there's a day I can't vote to come after me.

Lathum · 05-20-2009, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

OK, then I hope that I'm helping the village by voting for you.

you wanna go down that road then that's fine. But there is zero chance it will be me getting lynched tonight.

Lathum · 05-20-2009, 02:21 PM

and FWIW the guy leading the charge against me has maybe the worst voting record this game, while I have had a hand in 2 key votes damning wolves, but Hoops has found a clever way to circumvent that point.

DaddyTorgo · 05-20-2009, 02:22 PM

solid analysis hoops - and i can't fault your thinking i might be wolfish - hasn't been my strongest game. i can honestly admit i've been a bit...distracted by life.

fact is though that i'm just a villager, albeit one without any particular use to the village at this time. so voting me out would just cost a villager, nothing more, nothing less.

Abe, Telle, and PF seem to be the commonalities between hoops' list and autumn's list.

I have to add to that that I am somewhat suspicious of Poli as well - his strong push for Telle could easily be a wolfish tactic designed to draw trust after they decided to cut her loose.

hoopsguy · 05-20-2009, 02:22 PM

Lathum, if you are in fact a villager that cannot be lynched then that sounds really, really beneficial to the village.

There is no listed wolf role with that power, so we would see that you are a villager.

BTW, I was stunned that Pass did not duke you the last time that you said that you would not be getting lynched when you picked up a vote. I'm hoping he will answer why he did not go after you immediately after reading that back on Day 3 or 4 (whenever it was).

DaddyTorgo · 05-20-2009, 02:24 PM

like i said - i really think we need to get this hoops vs. lathum thing figured out. the way they're going at each other, one/both are likely wolves.

so in the hopes of that getting going - subject to change later of course

VOTE HOOPSGUY

hoopsguy · 05-20-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Abe, Telle, and PF seem to be the commonalities between hoops' list and autumn's list.

I would hope that Telle is on everyone's wolf list by now

So, what name did you mean to have listed there?

Lathum · 05-20-2009, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Lathum, if you are in fact a villager that cannot be lynched then that sounds really, really beneficial to the village.
.

do you think thats the case?

hoopsguy · 05-20-2009, 02:28 PM

This game has just moved into 10th for all-time posts. Assuming we have a couple of days left, this one might find its way up to 4,000 posts.

hoopsguy · 05-20-2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

do you think thats the case?

I'm going to be very surprised if you have a role that allows you to circumvent a lynch, either by negating it or redirecting it. We already had a public duke role in the game.

Danny · 05-20-2009, 02:30 PM

As of 2879

2 Hoopsguy - Saldana (2842), DaddyTorgo (2879)
3 Abe - Autumn (2782), The Jackal (2853), Dubb (2854)
1 Lathum - Hoopsguy (2866)

Yet to vote Poli, Chief Rum, PackerFanatic

Lathum · 05-20-2009, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm going to be very surprised if you have a role that allows you to circumvent a lynch, either by negating it or redirecting it. We already had a public duke role in the game.

so when you said you think you are helping the village by voting me you think I am a wolf?

hoopsguy · 05-20-2009, 02:32 PM

Danny, Jackal unvoted me and voted Abe. It should be 3-2-1.

Hoops - Saldana (2842), MT (2878)
Abe - Autumn (2782), Jackal (2853), Dubb (2854)
Lathum - Hoops (2866)

2713 Autumn votes Jackal 1-0
2726 Hoops votes Jackal 2-0
2731 Jackal votes Hoops 2-1
2758 Hoops unvotes Jackal 1-1
2759 Saldana votes MT 1-1-1
2766 Dubb votes Chief 1-1-1-1
2767 Autumn unvotes Jackal, votes Chief 2-1-1 Chief over Hoops/MT
2782 Autumn unvotes Chief, votes Abe 1-1-1-1 Hoops/MT/Chief/Abe
2784 Dubb unvotes Chief 1-1-1 Hoops/MT/Abe
2792 Jackal unvotes Hoops 1-1 MT/Abe
2842 Saldana unvotes MT, votes Hoops 1-1 Abe/Hoops
2853 Jackal votes Abe 2-1 Abe over Hoops
2854 Dubb votes Abe 3-1 Abe over Hoops
2866 Hoops votes Lathum 3-1-1 Abe over Hoops over Lathum
2878 MT votes Hoops 3-2-1 Abe over Hoops over Lathum

hoopsguy · 05-20-2009, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

so when you said you think you are helping the village by voting me you think I am a wolf?

Correct.

Danny · 05-20-2009, 02:33 PM

Ok, fixed

DaddyTorgo · 05-20-2009, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I would hope that Telle is on everyone's wolf list by now

So, what name did you mean to have listed there?

Whoops

Abe, Lathum, PF is what I guess I meant to say.

hoopsguy · 05-20-2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Whoops

Abe, Lathum, PF is what I guess I meant to say.

PF is not on my list.

DaddyTorgo · 05-20-2009, 02:34 PM

oh wow - i didn't realize there were 3 on abe - must have missed that

DaddyTorgo · 05-20-2009, 02:34 PM

then idk what i meant - i had a third name that seemed suspect to you both, but i forget hoops

Lathum · 05-20-2009, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Correct.

well you made it sound like by voting me you were helping the village by triggering my ability, 2 very different things

Danny · 05-20-2009, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

This game has just moved into 10th for all-time posts. Assuming we have a couple of days left, this one might find its way up to 4,000 posts.

Wow, hopefully everyone has had fun, though 4,000 seems a bit out of reach

hoopsguy · 05-20-2009, 02:39 PM

Assuming that Chief is willing to back me up in the same way that I have him, I think the wolves are going to be in a tough spot tonight. We both have pretty lousy voting records, so you would want to leave one or both of us around to be patsies later in the game. But if people actually believe us then they have a 2-man COT that has emerged even after they got the seer out of the way. Which is significant both for today with 10 people and tomorrow with 8 people.

Of course, their best course of action is to convince the remaining villagers that I'm full of crap and that I'm a spinning wolf. If the villagers lynch me or Chief, that saves the wolves having to do the dirty work themselves.

Anyway, should be interesting to watch the rest of the way however it unfolds.

hoopsguy · 05-20-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

well you made it sound like by voting me you were helping the village by triggering my ability, 2 very different things

I was being flippant; I do not think that you have an ability to trigger that is going to help the village after 5 1/2 days of it lying dormant.

Lathum · 05-20-2009, 02:42 PM

so Hoops, you think my day 2 exploits were just a ruse as a wolf to try and build trust with 19 people left and the seer still alive to scan me since I was acting so strangely?

hoopsguy · 05-20-2009, 02:46 PM

Yes, if you are a wolf then I'm guessing you are the cunning wolf. I had minimized this possibility earlier in the game but I've come back around to it after the last few days of votes and posts by you.

hoopsguy · 05-20-2009, 02:48 PM

But honestly, I'm not all that worried about what wolf role you hold as long as you are a wolf. If you are a villager then I'll guess it just goes onto the list of times I've been wrong this game. Which are well documented already.

Poli · 05-20-2009, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'll start here - Poli, you obviously are not seer, BG, or duke so you can't role reveal. But was your determination to get Telle yesterday purely gut-driven or was there something more that led you in that direction?

A little bit of both. I wish I could go into more detail.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

#2452 - Poli continues his crusade against Telle, was started the night before when he called out for others to join him on the vote. At some point I would love to know how he was so sure when he wasn't the seer.

See above comment.

With that, I'm struggling with where to put my vote. I'll make a decision soon. I'll be working out and heading off to church later tonight.

Lathum · 05-20-2009, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Yes, if you are a wolf then I'm guessing you are the cunning wolf. I had minimized this possibility earlier in the game but I've come back around to it after the last few days of votes and posts by you.

thats such a standard response and c'mon, on day 2 i'm not making a crazy play as a wolf.

I think it more likely you want us to waste a day today so you guys can get an extra kill tonight.

05-20-2009, 01:21 PM	#2855
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	you think I would vote to go 5-4 on a wolf and break a tie, when I'm not going to be around later? You think I'd jump way out in front on Day One as a wolf, knowing I would get major heat, just because I like to live dangerously as a wolf. If you honestly think my play in this game has been anything wolfish, then you are either a wolf yourself, trying to throw suspicion on a villager, or you are absolutely rubbish at reading people in WW> __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

05-20-2009, 01:22 PM	#2856
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	Now that Bk is dead, you will learn nothing from the revelation of my role if I die. __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

05-20-2009, 01:30 PM	#2859
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	I pushed for Telle or hoops right after lynch revealed the Sympathizer seemingly protect either one or the other who were in the running at various times. That gave me hard info, and I pushed for one or the other the entire day. When I voted for Telle, it was because the other one, hoops, was not getting votes, and I wanted to vote for one or the other based on Lerri's play. __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

05-20-2009, 02:22 PM	#2876
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	solid analysis hoops - and i can't fault your thinking i might be wolfish - hasn't been my strongest game. i can honestly admit i've been a bit...distracted by life. fact is though that i'm just a villager, albeit one without any particular use to the village at this time. so voting me out would just cost a villager, nothing more, nothing less. Abe, Telle, and PF seem to be the commonalities between hoops' list and autumn's list. I have to add to that that I am somewhat suspicious of Poli as well - his strong push for Telle could easily be a wolfish tactic designed to draw trust after they decided to cut her loose. __________________ If I've ever helped you and you'd like to buy me a coffee, or just to say thanks, I have my Bitcoin and Ethereum addressed listed below :) BTC: bc1qykhsfyn9vw4ntqfgr0svj4n9tjdgufryh2pxn5 ETH: 0x2AcdC5cd88EA537063553F5b240073bE067BaCa9

05-20-2009, 02:24 PM	#2878
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	like i said - i really think we need to get this hoops vs. lathum thing figured out. the way they're going at each other, one/both are likely wolves. so in the hopes of that getting going - subject to change later of course VOTE HOOPSGUY __________________ If I've ever helped you and you'd like to buy me a coffee, or just to say thanks, I have my Bitcoin and Ethereum addressed listed below :) BTC: bc1qykhsfyn9vw4ntqfgr0svj4n9tjdgufryh2pxn5 ETH: 0x2AcdC5cd88EA537063553F5b240073bE067BaCa9

05-20-2009, 01:19 PM	#2853
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	I'm going skating for a few hours, I'll be back but I'm going to put this out there for now. VOTE ABE

05-20-2009, 01:27 PM	#2857
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Day 5 setup - assumption is that the wolves know that MartinD is the seer going into the day. Telle has been on block every day and has already drawn heat from the seer. It is clearly in their best interests to keep him quiet for one more day so they can night kill him. #2452 - Poli continues his crusade against Telle, was started the night before when he called out for others to join him on the vote. At some point I would love to know how he was so sure when he wasn't the seer. #2472 - Lathum puts a vote on me #2476 - I put a vote on Clap, vote stays there for duration. #2481 - Lathum moves to Saldana #2494 - Saldana moves it to Lathum #2501 - Chief votes Clap. At this point, do the wolves want to see Telle lynched? I'm not sure. Chief's vote stays for duration. #2509 - Dubb votes Saldana #2513 - Autumn votes Clap, says later he was following me and Chief (little nervous about this as the wolves know who is the seer right now, but still have Autumn pretty high on personal trust list) #2521 - Abe votes for me #2558 - MartinD votes Telle, which he has done pretty consistently for a couple of days now. But he has not revealed as the seer. I think by this point they are more or less ready to see Telle die just to keep MartinD from revealing and publishing his list. #2587 - Telle votes for Clap, puts him in lead. #2590 - PF votes Telle, tying it up again. PF did vote for Telle the previous day as well. #2593 - Jackal votes for Saldana, introducing a new candidate to the vote #2595 - Abe unvotes me, votes Telle into lead by one. I do not think there is a history of voting for Telle here. #2598 - MT votes Clap, tying the vote one more time #2604 - Saldana unvotes Lathum, votes Telle into lead 6-5. He has voted for Telle on D3, but I think that is only time. #2614 - Lathum unvotes Saldana, votes Telle to push lead to 2. I don't think he has voted Telle previously but will double-check. #2622 - Dubb unvotes Saldana, votes Telle, lead now 3. Again, will check previous votes but I'm really not suspecting Dubb right now. #2635 - MT unvotes Clap, votes Telle. Once again, voting records to check.

05-20-2009, 01:40 PM	#2863
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Day 5 voters (non-Telle): Jackal Hoops (I'm clearing myself, for whatever that is worth) Autumn Chief (I'm vouching for him) Telle (wolf)

05-20-2009, 01:45 PM	#2864
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	I'm pretty sure my vote today will be between Lathum, Abe, and MT. Saldana and Jackal are a little further back on my distrust list right now. I cannot see a situation where I vote for Chief, Poli, Dubb, PF, or Autumn this afternoon.

05-20-2009, 01:57 PM	#2866
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	I'm going to go with Lathum today. I think his role is BS, he has never put any real pressure on Telle, and the "No Vote" thing is actually working out to his advantage to some extent because he isn't having to justify votes. I recognize that this is a stretch compared to some of the other candidates that have been floated but I think there is a pretty good likelihood that there is a veteran wolf who is letting some of the veteran villagers stick around to help with creating a smokescreen. I trust Chief, Dubb, and Poli so that starts to thin the herd a little bit on who would be the "vet wolf". The Day 1 vote on EF is about the only thing that I can't quite rationalize with his play right now. VOTE LATHUM

05-20-2009, 02:04 PM	#2867
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	Abe, PackerFanatic, Lathum, Poli and Dubb are the only players I don't think I have figured out at this point. I think three of them are wolves, two villagers. Voting history doesn't peg all three of them, but I'll keep looking.

05-20-2009, 02:14 PM	#2870
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Lathum, maybe my vote on you will trigger your condition. One can only hope. But I'm excited about the prospect of seeing your way-cool role out in the open to the benefit of all villagers.

05-20-2009, 02:19 PM	#2872
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	OK, then I hope that I'm helping the village by voting for you.

05-20-2009, 02:19 PM	#2873
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	Clever set up by hoops btw. I highly recommend you guys not following him, amazing he waited until there's a day I can't vote to come after me.

05-20-2009, 02:21 PM	#2875
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	and FWIW the guy leading the charge against me has maybe the worst voting record this game, while I have had a hand in 2 key votes damning wolves, but Hoops has found a clever way to circumvent that point.

05-20-2009, 02:22 PM	#2877
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Lathum, if you are in fact a villager that cannot be lynched then that sounds really, really beneficial to the village. There is no listed wolf role with that power, so we would see that you are a villager. BTW, I was stunned that Pass did not duke you the last time that you said that you would not be getting lynched when you picked up a vote. I'm hoping he will answer why he did not go after you immediately after reading that back on Day 3 or 4 (whenever it was).

05-20-2009, 02:28 PM	#2881
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	This game has just moved into 10th for all-time posts. Assuming we have a couple of days left, this one might find its way up to 4,000 posts.

05-20-2009, 02:30 PM	#2883
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	As of 2879 2 Hoopsguy - Saldana (2842), DaddyTorgo (2879) 3 Abe - Autumn (2782), The Jackal (2853), Dubb (2854) 1 Lathum - Hoopsguy (2866) Yet to vote Poli, Chief Rum, PackerFanatic Last edited by Danny : 05-20-2009 at 02:32 PM.

05-20-2009, 02:32 PM	#2885
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Danny, Jackal unvoted me and voted Abe. It should be 3-2-1. Hoops - Saldana (2842), MT (2878) Abe - Autumn (2782), Jackal (2853), Dubb (2854) Lathum - Hoops (2866) 2713 Autumn votes Jackal 1-0 2726 Hoops votes Jackal 2-0 2731 Jackal votes Hoops 2-1 2758 Hoops unvotes Jackal 1-1 2759 Saldana votes MT 1-1-1 2766 Dubb votes Chief 1-1-1-1 2767 Autumn unvotes Jackal, votes Chief 2-1-1 Chief over Hoops/MT 2782 Autumn unvotes Chief, votes Abe 1-1-1-1 Hoops/MT/Chief/Abe 2784 Dubb unvotes Chief 1-1-1 Hoops/MT/Abe 2792 Jackal unvotes Hoops 1-1 MT/Abe 2842 Saldana unvotes MT, votes Hoops 1-1 Abe/Hoops 2853 Jackal votes Abe 2-1 Abe over Hoops 2854 Dubb votes Abe 3-1 Abe over Hoops 2866 Hoops votes Lathum 3-1-1 Abe over Hoops over Lathum 2878 MT votes Hoops 3-2-1 Abe over Hoops over Lathum

05-20-2009, 02:33 PM	#2887
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Ok, fixed

05-20-2009, 02:34 PM	#2890
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	oh wow - i didn't realize there were 3 on abe - must have missed that __________________ If I've ever helped you and you'd like to buy me a coffee, or just to say thanks, I have my Bitcoin and Ethereum addressed listed below :) BTC: bc1qykhsfyn9vw4ntqfgr0svj4n9tjdgufryh2pxn5 ETH: 0x2AcdC5cd88EA537063553F5b240073bE067BaCa9

05-20-2009, 02:34 PM	#2891
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	then idk what i meant - i had a third name that seemed suspect to you both, but i forget hoops __________________ If I've ever helped you and you'd like to buy me a coffee, or just to say thanks, I have my Bitcoin and Ethereum addressed listed below :) BTC: bc1qykhsfyn9vw4ntqfgr0svj4n9tjdgufryh2pxn5 ETH: 0x2AcdC5cd88EA537063553F5b240073bE067BaCa9

05-20-2009, 02:39 PM	#2894
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Assuming that Chief is willing to back me up in the same way that I have him, I think the wolves are going to be in a tough spot tonight. We both have pretty lousy voting records, so you would want to leave one or both of us around to be patsies later in the game. But if people actually believe us then they have a 2-man COT that has emerged even after they got the seer out of the way. Which is significant both for today with 10 people and tomorrow with 8 people. Of course, their best course of action is to convince the remaining villagers that I'm full of crap and that I'm a spinning wolf. If the villagers lynch me or Chief, that saves the wolves having to do the dirty work themselves. Anyway, should be interesting to watch the rest of the way however it unfolds.

05-20-2009, 02:42 PM	#2896
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	so Hoops, you think my day 2 exploits were just a ruse as a wolf to try and build trust with 19 people left and the seer still alive to scan me since I was acting so strangely?

05-20-2009, 02:46 PM	#2897
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Yes, if you are a wolf then I'm guessing you are the cunning wolf. I had minimized this possibility earlier in the game but I've come back around to it after the last few days of votes and posts by you.

05-20-2009, 02:48 PM	#2898
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	But honestly, I'm not all that worried about what wolf role you hold as long as you are a wolf. If you are a villager then I'll guess it just goes onto the list of times I've been wrong this game. Which are well documented already.

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