Werewolf: Ardent's thoughts and notes

Poli · 07-20-2007, 09:02 AM

We'll see how this dynasty works out. I've decided to keep the notes that I make throughout a game, when I make them...and to follow along in games even when I meet an untimely demise.

I won't comment on the current game, but will reveal how I feel, as I feel it, through this dynasty. Who knows, maybe I'll start keeping tabs on who I vote for, when I vote for them, lynching history and success, wolf history and success as well. I will reveal my thoughts of the current game when the current game is over. By that I mean I will never comment in this thread about a current game, not just THIS current game.

I've thought of writing out a werewolf dynasty...and with my interest peaked and sitting on the outside looking in at the current game, now's as good a time as any.

Poli · 07-20-2007, 09:06 AM

Werewolf XLVIII - The horror of sorcery hill

st.cronin · 07-20-2007, 09:06 AM

Great idea.

Poli · 07-20-2007, 09:11 AM

I was rather excited to play in this game as Alan T wasn't. Alan T was moderating the game which meant I might actually make it past the first couple of days without defending myself against, well, nothing.

My record in werewolf as for being a villager had been snow white. I'd been a villager for something along the lines of 14 months I'd guess. I think the last time I was a bad guy was the botched treasure hunt game that barkeep ran. A game where hoops, blade, and I should have ran the table, instead game mechanics ruled the day.

I moved to a location feeling that I would have done that as a villager...only to have barkeep just assume I was moving as a wolf. I didn't announce I was using the special move, barkeep just assumed I was. That assumption led to my quick removal from the game. In the end, I declared a minor victory for myself as blade and I were in jail I believe and hoops left on the boat from the treasure island/hunt. Small victory but the best we/I could hope for given the botch.

Anyhow, I won't be bitter about that in about 9 years.

Poli · 07-20-2007, 09:15 AM

I tend to ramble when I type...I tend to ramble when I talk. I could tell stories all day long. I got off track last post, I'll try to retrack.

I was excited Alan T wasn't in the game and was moderating because...out of gut feel Alan had gunned for me X amount of games in a row. It slowly grated on my nerves knowing how long I had been a villager. I sometimes feel/felt that people assumed I was a great wolf or something before I was forced to let the game go last summer. A number of players since I've returned...who should realistically have no idea how I play as a wolf (since I've never been one around them)...just assumed that's "how ardent plays as a wolf". I mean, it's great to have a reputation, but it sucks when it's unfounded.

Anyhow, I was a little happy to get this game going for personal reasons.

Then Alan sends me his flippin' PM to start the game.

Poli · 07-20-2007, 09:22 AM

Alan's PM ruined my snow white record and made me one of the sect members. I hadn't read the rules yet, but the tone of the message led me to believe I was bad.

Bummer, I thought. I have mixed feelings about being the bad guy. Dubb93 and I used to exchange messages and phone calls when we were teamed up as bad guys. I hate to toot our horn (as dubb has pretty much disappeared), but we made an excellent team. I really enjoy trying to pull the strings.

That said, I hate lieing. Absolutely. I can't stand it when people tell me I'm a liar. I can't stand lieing to people. It's hard on me. I end up having nightmares about leading people astray. Nightmares in werewolf, who would have seen that coming?

It's a little troubling that I enjoy a good bad guy role. It's troubling that I enjoy fake reveals as well, given that I like a good fake reveal every so often. I tend to fake reveal when I have something on the line, so I should probably try a fake reveal as a villager just to screw with...everyone.

Anyhow, after confirming, I was indeed a bad guy for the first time in over a year, I confirmed who my teammates were: Render and ntndeacon.

st.cronin · 07-20-2007, 09:24 AM

Looking forward to the part where you explain why you killed me.

Poli · 07-20-2007, 09:25 AM

My thoughts on render before the game:

Plays as if he's inexperienced. I don't know if it's by design or not. Will only work for so long.

On ntndeacon:
Burned me in the heroes game. Badly. Never saw it coming. Probably the classic UTR (under the radar) type guy who hides out, villager or not. Will probably be very useful in this game as such.

Poli · 07-20-2007, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Looking forward to the part where you explain why you killed me.

Me too.

Poli · 07-20-2007, 09:31 AM

The three of us don't really communicate the first day...and I kind of liked that. I think I'd like to play a game as a wolf someday where we know who we are, but we just don't communicate other than that. I think it would lead us to more random type of voting, more talking with in the thread itself, and possibly to victory.

I think it might be a telltale sign of who the wolves are if they don't communicate very well within a thread. Just a pocket theory...I know in this game I probably didn't say much to render or ntn, but I'd just assume chat up anyone else. Might not actually be a valid theory...but better than some I've seen/heard.

It's painfully obvious that we won't get a day 1 lynch. Too many people are angling for the no lynch. That's groovy, sort of. No lynch, no voting pattern, no arguments, no problems. I just hate losing out on a potential dead villager...but I agree to go along with the no lynch vote.

Poli · 07-20-2007, 09:39 AM

During the night action I communicate with both of the guys and tell them I'd just assume make the night kills as someone is bound to bring up my name as a potential wolf.

DaddyTorgo was killed for his mercury. We needed it for one of the spells we knew. I'd just assume kill barkeep for that blasted treasure hunt and then the even more sucky City of Wonder game. I wonder why I didn't just do that instead now. Oh well.

Anyhow, I checked the storeroom as I said I did, and found mercury. Joy. I knew I should have killed barkeep.

I should mention that I started out with a yellow flower. Pretty darn worthless, if you ask me.

Poli · 07-20-2007, 09:43 AM

I was really excited about people telling us their names and items. It sure made it easy. I was loving it. Our only problem was that DT was the only one with an item we needed.

I hated taking advantage of Izulde failing to state where he was going to go for the night, but a bad guy has to do what a bad guy has to do. I have a family as well, you know.

Three other villagers (path, pass, and swaggs) help me put him away.

hoopsguy · 07-20-2007, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

I sometimes feel/felt that people assumed I was a great wolf or something before I was forced to let the game go last summer. A number of players since I've returned...who should realistically have no idea how I play as a wolf (since I've never been one around them)...just assumed that's "how ardent plays as a wolf". I mean, it's great to have a reputation, but it sucks when it's unfounded.

I'm hoping that you don't mind others chiming in with WW thoughts along the way ...

This is one of the challenging parts of WW for me at this point. When you build up a reputation - deserved or not - people are going to play against it. And the results are not always all that fun, particularly if you are dying early or under constant scrutiny.

That said, I don't believe that reputations are completely static. I don't think you go from having a rep as a great wolf to being a terrible wolf, but you can over time create a reputation of being a particularly valuable villager as well as a great wolf. That would force people to be less casual about gunning for you as a wolf, if they feel like they are losing out on a good villager if they are wrong.

This is just one example, and probably too general to provide value. "Gee, if it was that easy everyone would do it!". But I try very hard not to subscribe to the idea that other people are determining my fate in these games based on fuzzy concepts like "rep". Most games there is something I can take away from the play - both my own and others - and try to adapt next time out to have a more rewarding WW experience.

molson · 07-20-2007, 10:11 AM

Good stuff.

I tried WW twice, was very active, had a ton of theories, but they all cancelled each other out. I didn't feel strongly about anything, and all of my guesses were wrong.

So it's interesting to see that process from the perspective of someone who knows what they're doing.

Poli · 07-20-2007, 10:17 AM

We've had that discussion in the past and I can see where you're coming from. Still, it boils down to when I'm an ordinary villager (as it is in most cases) I feel like I'm less invested in the game than if I have a role, good or bad.

Less invested is a bad thing, and I know it. It's my hope that this dynasty will lead to me generating notes about everyone in the game and thus make me a better WW player as a villager.

Poli · 07-20-2007, 10:19 AM

Cronin's night 2 kill was based on the fact that he now owes me about 14 hats. He's never paid up, so it was about time I collected, one way or another.

Poli · 07-20-2007, 10:21 AM

That was just for fun.

Seriously, ntn and I were communicating more at this point, and we considered both barkeep and hoopsguy as our target, but determined that cronin might know more than he's letting on by his posts. He wanted to know where everyone was, stated something along the lines of knowing more about the great hall the next day...and it might put a little heat on swaggs.

Sweet.

Off I went for the 2nd night kill, and it was a success.

hoopsguy · 07-20-2007, 10:31 AM

Interesting, BK and I both had three votes that day - just one behind Izulde who was lynched with four - and there was still consideration for taking us out that night.

You guys had a really terrific day 2, given that all of the candidates with votes, and discussion lines, were far removed from the actual wolves.

Poli · 07-20-2007, 10:32 AM

Day 3's lynch was lathum. I wasn't intending to vote lathum for the kill. I thought barkeep was a lock by the time I got around to vote. Fortunately for me, my work schedule kept me busy throughout the game, which worked well with keeping me out of the limelight.

I vote at the deadline, on the deadline for lathum, assuming it would tie or barkeep would be gone. What I didn't calculate was swaggs doing the last minute switch to lathum.

So, once again, I voted a villager out. Looks bad for me and I figure I'm not long for this world.

Another issue about this time was Pass/Path/Swaggs gaining trust by the item passing. I'd have loved to be online at the time. I'd have passed that yellow flower like noone else could have. I felt I missed out on an opportunity there.

Instead, I passed hoopsguy the mercury, after claiming to have it from the beginning (and to my surprise, no one questioned it), hoping to garner some kudos.

Poli · 07-20-2007, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Interesting, BK and I both had three votes that day - just one behind Izulde who was lynched with four - and there was still consideration for taking us out that night.

You guys had a really terrific day 2, given that all of the candidates with votes, and discussion lines, were far removed from the actual wolves.

Well, generally speaking, I like to take out the better players to leave the rest of the village unattended. Those who I consider having great "reps" are usually the first gone. I believe I've angered barkeep in the past for killing him quite early. It's more of a compliment than anything.

That said, I couldn't take the chance that cronin was on to something big on night 2. You were target 1a at the time.

hoopsguy · 07-20-2007, 10:35 AM

What kind of item stockpiling had you guys completed by this point? Based on Alan's post-game stuff, it doesn't sound like you had all the pieces to make good items, but I'm definitely interested in hearing your thoughts on that part of this game. Did you guys feel like you were on the brink of making items that could put the game away for good?

Poli · 07-20-2007, 10:40 AM

Render asked at this point to be the night killer. I wasn't thrilled with the idea, but I agreed. I preferred to be the guy because I figured someone would eventually follow me and I'd get caught. I figured render and ntn could both fool the other villagers, I wasn't sure I could.

Swaggs was our target this night, again ahead of hoops and barkeep, because of all the loot he had obtained. Swaggs obtained the loot by being the key person in the previous two lynches.

Render requested to disembowel him. I'm not a medic, but it doesn't sound groovy.

Swaggs was effectively killed and indeed had a bunch of stuff. Still nothing of tremendous use to us.

Still, we were smug. I remember telling ntn we had a great chance at winning this game.

The one time anyone was close to me, barkeep, I faked an emotional response and it worked.

The items appeared worthless. Too many and everyone was too cautious. No one wanted to take a chance and mix something (save Pass I'd guess). No roles played into our hands. Not a single person was on to us. It was great.

Poli · 07-20-2007, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

What kind of item stockpiling had you guys completed by this point? Based on Alan's post-game stuff, it doesn't sound like you had all the pieces to make good items, but I'm definitely interested in hearing your thoughts on that part of this game. Did you guys feel like you were on the brink of making items that could put the game away for good?

I kind of just answered that. We had a bunch of stuff, but I can't recall what exactly we had. We needed poisoned flour, but I believe Alan T said the item never made it into the game. It really sucked that every item wasn't already in the game (sucked for us, anyhow), with the potential of duplicate items eventually coming into the game. I was all for mixing something and just throwing it, especially if I was ever caught.

If we'd have ever found the flour we'd probably had won the game. So not even having the opportunity of obtaining it (other than random.org) really hurt our chances.

Still, the game was going remarkably smooth for us at this point. The villagers were very passive and weren't keying on us at all.

Passacaglia · 07-20-2007, 10:48 AM

I don't think we've heard from cronin on that. Was he on to something big Night 2? I remember something about an enigmatic message or somesuch.

Passacaglia · 07-20-2007, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

The items appeared worthless. Too many and everyone was too cautious. No one wanted to take a chance and mix something (save Pass I'd guess). No roles played into our hands. Not a single person was on to us. It was great.

If I recall correctly, the only thing I mixed was the eternal bond potion, which path gave me the ingredients for. I thought he was going to mix it himself, but I guess he wanted me to be sure that I didn't have some strange potion? I might have made the holy water, but I think what actually happened was that Swaggs made it, then passed it to me. At some point, Barkeep implied that I had taken two ingredients and combined them randomly, but I never did that.

Does anyone know what would have happened if we mixed random ingredients?

Poli · 07-20-2007, 11:00 AM

Unfortunately, my time in the game would end the next day, through some random joining of votes. Fortunately, I had passed any item I had obtained to ntn, so I was all set.

The goal would have been to have ntn, who had vote for me, peel off and cut down the next closest person with votes, if needed.

Pass had thrown a potion at barkeep...I still don't know what it was...essentially clearing both of them. We weren't sure if barkeep was a potential night kill any longer.

Later he throws a potion at LSG, bonding him to her. Sweet, I thought. We thought. Double kill.

It started about 2 hours before the deadline, or perhaps just an hour. Chief Rum switched to me. Hoops does the same. NTN. It's not looking good for me, and I'm happy to have a reason not to be around to defend myself.

I'm actually hoping we take hoops out at this point. I showed 6 villagers to 3 wolves (hoops, barkeep, chief, lsg, pass, and path being the villagers). Eliminating hoops takes us to 5:3. The night kill was probaby going to be end game.

No one could suspect that pass and barkeep would switch votes at the end...sealing themselves even more as villagers at this point, in my opinion. I'd like to believe that ntn had the opportunity by continually refreshing the screen to change his vote as well, but so be it.

Maybe I'm the only one hitting my F5 key every 5 seconds when I'm playing a Werewolf game.

My death proves costly and the game takes a bad turn for us.

st.cronin · 07-20-2007, 11:06 AM

Pass, night 1 I stayed in the great hall, thinking nobody else would, and figured out that that was where you went if you needed healing. I then played the way I did, trying to lure the bad guys into spending a night in the great hall, thinking they might waste a night. I also wanted them to be a little worried about where to go at night, and who to kill.

Poli · 07-20-2007, 11:13 AM

I do some last second coaching of the guys before bidding goodbye to them. In the past, being a wolf I wanted to still hear the conversations, but not participate in them. I guess I'm at the point now where knowing what's going on ruins some of the fun for me...I'd like to figure it out on my own. So, I'm not so much into knowing what happened after I'm out of a game anymore.

To be honest, I paid some attention to what happened in the remainder of the game, but render's night kill of pass really ruined our chances. Render told me about through IM (which I wasn't much of a fan of, but what could I do?), I replied generally to deny, deny, deny. Spin, spin, spin. I know he tried a lot of different stuff, mixed all sorts of stuff together, but nothing worked...which leads me to believe all the items really did indeed suck. It appeared to me very few things mixed together well to make anything worthwhile.

It didn't work. Render was toast thanks to LSG.

Poli · 07-20-2007, 11:21 AM

It was rather enjoyable making everyone feel like dirt while Alan T wrote the lynch result. I believe I genuinely made barkeep, chief, and LSG feel bad.

I got lucky when I came back from the show that Alan T hadn't revealed the results. Doomed, I decided to take advantage of it. That was fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

Sorry Ardent

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Let me be the first to apologize, AE. It was I who led this charge. I had good reason, but I doubt you would like it. IT really didn't have much to do with your goodness or evilness.

It would help tons, though, if you're a wolf.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I'm very disappointed with myself.

Passacaglia · 07-20-2007, 11:22 AM

What does healing do? Could you be hurt in this game?

Poli · 07-20-2007, 11:26 AM

I should edit those posts to reflect the working order...but I won't.

It appeared LSG was the next night kill after render. I don't know what the rationale was behind it, but I'm guessing it was a CoT issue (Circle of Trust) what the final lynch vote was for ntn.

In the end, it was disappointing to lose a game that was so within our grasp.

Truth be told, render had already decided to take the night kill again, taking out pass or LSG.

If we had got hoops, we'd have been 4-3. However, LSG would still pin the blame on render, and we'd have a tough time getting anyone to peel off render for a return vote on LSG.

I'd like to believe I could sell it and spin it, but I think too highly of myself at times. Most of the time.

4-2, we'd have likely taken out LSG again. 3-2. We might have still made it work, but it would have been hard.

Poli · 07-20-2007, 11:28 AM

I started taking notes on the current game yesterday, after feeling horrible about being uninterested the previous day (blasted new football game).

I'll continue to take those notes until the game is over, complete with what I think is going on and my thoughts on how it's going.

st.cronin · 07-20-2007, 11:28 AM

Pass, iirc, there were some possible potions that were slow-acting poisons.

Tyrith · 07-20-2007, 12:06 PM

This almost makes me want to play WW again.

st.cronin · 07-20-2007, 12:18 PM

Tyrith, I wish you would. I enjoyed playing with you.

path12 · 07-20-2007, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Maybe I'm the only one hitting my F5 key every 5 seconds when I'm playing a Werewolf game.

You're not.

path12 · 07-20-2007, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Tyrith, I wish you would. I enjoyed playing with you.

Ditto. I'd like to see Molson give it another try also. Those first 5-6 games can be so damn frustrating though. I know I almost gave up after the 3rd or 4th.

st.cronin · 07-20-2007, 03:28 PM

Yeah, it was around the 4th or 5th game that the light finally came on for me. The first game, I was totally clueless.

Passacaglia · 07-20-2007, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

No one could suspect that pass and barkeep would switch votes at the end...sealing themselves even more as villagers at this point, in my opinion. I'd like to believe that ntn had the opportunity by continually refreshing the screen to change his vote as well, but so be it.

Even if ntn was right there at deadline, he still would have had a tough time getting it in. I saw Barkeep's post at 8 PM, then had a sudden flash that hoops was good, and changed my vote, hoping like crazy that I would get my own vote in on time.

Passacaglia · 07-20-2007, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Yeah, it was around the 4th or 5th game that the light finally came on for me. The first game, I was totally clueless.

I'll agree with this. I've probably played something like 5-10 (closer to 10) games, and I feel like I'm still just learning.

Poli · 07-20-2007, 04:19 PM

It was a 5-4 vote.

Before BK's flip, flop, flap, it was a 3-5-1 (me, hoops, path, I believe)

BK switches to me, 4-5. NTN decides, oh shoot, maybe I'm wrong, just like everyone else.

3-6.

You switch, as you decided. 4-5. Hoops is still gone. If ntn refreshes his screen half as much as I do, he's in.

Passacaglia · 07-20-2007, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

It was a 5-4 vote.

Before BK's flip, flop, flap, it was a 3-5-1 (me, hoops, path, I believe)

BK switches to me, 4-5. NTN decides, oh shoot, maybe I'm wrong, just like everyone else.

3-6.

You switch, as you decided. 4-5. Hoops is still gone. If ntn refreshes his screen half as much as I do, he's in.

That assumes that ntn would have switched his vote at the last minute after seeing BK's switch, even though hoops still had the lead. I'm not sure I would do that if I were in ntn's place. He still might have been able to get a vote in after mine -- I don't know how much time was left, but my guess is that it wasn't much, but that could be just because I was worried I would miss the deadline myself.

Poli · 07-20-2007, 05:01 PM

If it were the other way around, I'd switch to hoops off of ntn. No problem about it. Three vote swaps on the last minute? I can deal with that. I wouldn't want to take the risk of losing one on my own. Then again, I'm someone that refreshes every few seconds at nearly every deadline...regardless if I'm voting or not.

ntndeacon · 07-20-2007, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

It was a 5-4 vote.

Before BK's flip, flop, flap, it was a 3-5-1 (me, hoops, path, I believe)

BK switches to me, 4-5. NTN decides, oh shoot, maybe I'm wrong, just like everyone else.

3-6.

You switch, as you decided. 4-5. Hoops is still gone. If ntn refreshes his screen half as much as I do, he's in.

And if i had been near my computer I might have been willing to do that. But I was doing something out and about (can't remember anymore what it was....thinks it might have been play related but not sure)

Poli · 07-20-2007, 07:54 PM

Don't think I'm discrediting you, ntn. I wasn't around at the deadline, either, due to watching a show.

I'm just reflecting on what might have been.

ntndeacon · 07-20-2007, 07:58 PM

I did not think you were discrediting me Ardent. just letting your fair readers why what is a fairly obvious and good idea wasn't used. I probably was a little too strong on my insistence to believe hoops throughout the game. I convinced him, but backed myself into a corner on whom to vote.

Alan T · 07-24-2007, 02:31 PM

I didn't even know this thread was here at all.

Sorry if you feel I always gun for you Ardent, I think there are just some players who's play style always just feels off for me. I know I've always had problems thinking everything Schmidty or Qwikshot ever posted felt completely wolfish to me as well.

I

Barkeep49 · 07-24-2007, 04:23 PM

This was a lot of fun to read. Great idea for a dynasty and it looks like you might have gotten us a new player!

Barkeep49 · 07-27-2007, 01:47 PM

Bump. Would love to see the notes from last game. I think you had a really good game from our discussions in PM.

Chief Rum · 08-14-2007, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

The one time anyone was close to me, barkeep, I faked an emotional response and it worked.

I am just reading this thread for the first time. Haven't gotten to the point where I basically snowballed you for no reason but to "mix it up". I have a feeling your comments won't be kind.

That said, the above quote stopped me. Ardent, I'll never trust your emotional responses again!

07-20-2007, 09:06 AM	#2
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	Werewolf XLVIII - The horror of sorcery hill __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

07-20-2007, 09:06 AM	#3
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Great idea. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

07-20-2007, 09:11 AM	#4
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	I was rather excited to play in this game as Alan T wasn't. Alan T was moderating the game which meant I might actually make it past the first couple of days without defending myself against, well, nothing. My record in werewolf as for being a villager had been snow white. I'd been a villager for something along the lines of 14 months I'd guess. I think the last time I was a bad guy was the botched treasure hunt game that barkeep ran. A game where hoops, blade, and I should have ran the table, instead game mechanics ruled the day. I moved to a location feeling that I would have done that as a villager...only to have barkeep just assume I was moving as a wolf. I didn't announce I was using the special move, barkeep just assumed I was. That assumption led to my quick removal from the game. In the end, I declared a minor victory for myself as blade and I were in jail I believe and hoops left on the boat from the treasure island/hunt. Small victory but the best we/I could hope for given the botch. Anyhow, I won't be bitter about that in about 9 years. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

07-20-2007, 09:15 AM	#5
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	I tend to ramble when I type...I tend to ramble when I talk. I could tell stories all day long. I got off track last post, I'll try to retrack. I was excited Alan T wasn't in the game and was moderating because...out of gut feel Alan had gunned for me X amount of games in a row. It slowly grated on my nerves knowing how long I had been a villager. I sometimes feel/felt that people assumed I was a great wolf or something before I was forced to let the game go last summer. A number of players since I've returned...who should realistically have no idea how I play as a wolf (since I've never been one around them)...just assumed that's "how ardent plays as a wolf". I mean, it's great to have a reputation, but it sucks when it's unfounded. Anyhow, I was a little happy to get this game going for personal reasons. Then Alan sends me his flippin' PM to start the game. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

07-20-2007, 09:22 AM	#6
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	Alan's PM ruined my snow white record and made me one of the sect members. I hadn't read the rules yet, but the tone of the message led me to believe I was bad. Bummer, I thought. I have mixed feelings about being the bad guy. Dubb93 and I used to exchange messages and phone calls when we were teamed up as bad guys. I hate to toot our horn (as dubb has pretty much disappeared), but we made an excellent team. I really enjoy trying to pull the strings. That said, I hate lieing. Absolutely. I can't stand it when people tell me I'm a liar. I can't stand lieing to people. It's hard on me. I end up having nightmares about leading people astray. Nightmares in werewolf, who would have seen that coming? It's a little troubling that I enjoy a good bad guy role. It's troubling that I enjoy fake reveals as well, given that I like a good fake reveal every so often. I tend to fake reveal when I have something on the line, so I should probably try a fake reveal as a villager just to screw with...everyone. Anyhow, after confirming, I was indeed a bad guy for the first time in over a year, I confirmed who my teammates were: Render and ntndeacon. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

07-20-2007, 09:24 AM	#7
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Looking forward to the part where you explain why you killed me. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

07-20-2007, 09:25 AM	#8
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	My thoughts on render before the game: Plays as if he's inexperienced. I don't know if it's by design or not. Will only work for so long. On ntndeacon: Burned me in the heroes game. Badly. Never saw it coming. Probably the classic UTR (under the radar) type guy who hides out, villager or not. Will probably be very useful in this game as such. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

07-20-2007, 09:31 AM	#10
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	The three of us don't really communicate the first day...and I kind of liked that. I think I'd like to play a game as a wolf someday where we know who we are, but we just don't communicate other than that. I think it would lead us to more random type of voting, more talking with in the thread itself, and possibly to victory. I think it might be a telltale sign of who the wolves are if they don't communicate very well within a thread. Just a pocket theory...I know in this game I probably didn't say much to render or ntn, but I'd just assume chat up anyone else. Might not actually be a valid theory...but better than some I've seen/heard. It's painfully obvious that we won't get a day 1 lynch. Too many people are angling for the no lynch. That's groovy, sort of. No lynch, no voting pattern, no arguments, no problems. I just hate losing out on a potential dead villager...but I agree to go along with the no lynch vote. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

07-20-2007, 09:39 AM	#11
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	During the night action I communicate with both of the guys and tell them I'd just assume make the night kills as someone is bound to bring up my name as a potential wolf. DaddyTorgo was killed for his mercury. We needed it for one of the spells we knew. I'd just assume kill barkeep for that blasted treasure hunt and then the even more sucky City of Wonder game. I wonder why I didn't just do that instead now. Oh well. Anyhow, I checked the storeroom as I said I did, and found mercury. Joy. I knew I should have killed barkeep. I should mention that I started out with a yellow flower. Pretty darn worthless, if you ask me. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

07-20-2007, 09:43 AM	#12
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	I was really excited about people telling us their names and items. It sure made it easy. I was loving it. Our only problem was that DT was the only one with an item we needed. I hated taking advantage of Izulde failing to state where he was going to go for the night, but a bad guy has to do what a bad guy has to do. I have a family as well, you know. Three other villagers (path, pass, and swaggs) help me put him away. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

07-20-2007, 10:11 AM	#14
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	Good stuff. I tried WW twice, was very active, had a ton of theories, but they all cancelled each other out. I didn't feel strongly about anything, and all of my guesses were wrong. So it's interesting to see that process from the perspective of someone who knows what they're doing.

07-20-2007, 10:17 AM	#15
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	We've had that discussion in the past and I can see where you're coming from. Still, it boils down to when I'm an ordinary villager (as it is in most cases) I feel like I'm less invested in the game than if I have a role, good or bad. Less invested is a bad thing, and I know it. It's my hope that this dynasty will lead to me generating notes about everyone in the game and thus make me a better WW player as a villager. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

07-20-2007, 10:19 AM	#16
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	Cronin's night 2 kill was based on the fact that he now owes me about 14 hats. He's never paid up, so it was about time I collected, one way or another. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

07-20-2007, 10:21 AM	#17
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	That was just for fun. Seriously, ntn and I were communicating more at this point, and we considered both barkeep and hoopsguy as our target, but determined that cronin might know more than he's letting on by his posts. He wanted to know where everyone was, stated something along the lines of knowing more about the great hall the next day...and it might put a little heat on swaggs. Sweet. Off I went for the 2nd night kill, and it was a success. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

07-20-2007, 10:31 AM	#18
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Interesting, BK and I both had three votes that day - just one behind Izulde who was lynched with four - and there was still consideration for taking us out that night. You guys had a really terrific day 2, given that all of the candidates with votes, and discussion lines, were far removed from the actual wolves.

07-20-2007, 10:32 AM	#19
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	Day 3's lynch was lathum. I wasn't intending to vote lathum for the kill. I thought barkeep was a lock by the time I got around to vote. Fortunately for me, my work schedule kept me busy throughout the game, which worked well with keeping me out of the limelight. I vote at the deadline, on the deadline for lathum, assuming it would tie or barkeep would be gone. What I didn't calculate was swaggs doing the last minute switch to lathum. So, once again, I voted a villager out. Looks bad for me and I figure I'm not long for this world. Another issue about this time was Pass/Path/Swaggs gaining trust by the item passing. I'd have loved to be online at the time. I'd have passed that yellow flower like noone else could have. I felt I missed out on an opportunity there. Instead, I passed hoopsguy the mercury, after claiming to have it from the beginning (and to my surprise, no one questioned it), hoping to garner some kudos. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

07-20-2007, 10:35 AM	#21
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	What kind of item stockpiling had you guys completed by this point? Based on Alan's post-game stuff, it doesn't sound like you had all the pieces to make good items, but I'm definitely interested in hearing your thoughts on that part of this game. Did you guys feel like you were on the brink of making items that could put the game away for good?

07-20-2007, 10:40 AM	#22
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	Render asked at this point to be the night killer. I wasn't thrilled with the idea, but I agreed. I preferred to be the guy because I figured someone would eventually follow me and I'd get caught. I figured render and ntn could both fool the other villagers, I wasn't sure I could. Swaggs was our target this night, again ahead of hoops and barkeep, because of all the loot he had obtained. Swaggs obtained the loot by being the key person in the previous two lynches. Render requested to disembowel him. I'm not a medic, but it doesn't sound groovy. Swaggs was effectively killed and indeed had a bunch of stuff. Still nothing of tremendous use to us. Still, we were smug. I remember telling ntn we had a great chance at winning this game. The one time anyone was close to me, barkeep, I faked an emotional response and it worked. The items appeared worthless. Too many and everyone was too cautious. No one wanted to take a chance and mix something (save Pass I'd guess). No roles played into our hands. Not a single person was on to us. It was great. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum. Last edited by Poli : 07-20-2007 at 10:46 AM.

07-20-2007, 10:48 AM	#24
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	I don't think we've heard from cronin on that. Was he on to something big Night 2? I remember something about an enigmatic message or somesuch.

07-20-2007, 11:00 AM	#26
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	Unfortunately, my time in the game would end the next day, through some random joining of votes. Fortunately, I had passed any item I had obtained to ntn, so I was all set. The goal would have been to have ntn, who had vote for me, peel off and cut down the next closest person with votes, if needed. Pass had thrown a potion at barkeep...I still don't know what it was...essentially clearing both of them. We weren't sure if barkeep was a potential night kill any longer. Later he throws a potion at LSG, bonding him to her. Sweet, I thought. We thought. Double kill. It started about 2 hours before the deadline, or perhaps just an hour. Chief Rum switched to me. Hoops does the same. NTN. It's not looking good for me, and I'm happy to have a reason not to be around to defend myself. I'm actually hoping we take hoops out at this point. I showed 6 villagers to 3 wolves (hoops, barkeep, chief, lsg, pass, and path being the villagers). Eliminating hoops takes us to 5:3. The night kill was probaby going to be end game. No one could suspect that pass and barkeep would switch votes at the end...sealing themselves even more as villagers at this point, in my opinion. I'd like to believe that ntn had the opportunity by continually refreshing the screen to change his vote as well, but so be it. Maybe I'm the only one hitting my F5 key every 5 seconds when I'm playing a Werewolf game. My death proves costly and the game takes a bad turn for us. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

07-20-2007, 11:06 AM	#27
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Pass, night 1 I stayed in the great hall, thinking nobody else would, and figured out that that was where you went if you needed healing. I then played the way I did, trying to lure the bad guys into spending a night in the great hall, thinking they might waste a night. I also wanted them to be a little worried about where to go at night, and who to kill. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

07-20-2007, 11:13 AM	#28
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	I do some last second coaching of the guys before bidding goodbye to them. In the past, being a wolf I wanted to still hear the conversations, but not participate in them. I guess I'm at the point now where knowing what's going on ruins some of the fun for me...I'd like to figure it out on my own. So, I'm not so much into knowing what happened after I'm out of a game anymore. To be honest, I paid some attention to what happened in the remainder of the game, but render's night kill of pass really ruined our chances. Render told me about through IM (which I wasn't much of a fan of, but what could I do?), I replied generally to deny, deny, deny. Spin, spin, spin. I know he tried a lot of different stuff, mixed all sorts of stuff together, but nothing worked...which leads me to believe all the items really did indeed suck. It appeared to me very few things mixed together well to make anything worthwhile. It didn't work. Render was toast thanks to LSG. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

07-20-2007, 11:22 AM	#30
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	What does healing do? Could you be hurt in this game?

07-20-2007, 11:26 AM	#31
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	I should edit those posts to reflect the working order...but I won't. It appeared LSG was the next night kill after render. I don't know what the rationale was behind it, but I'm guessing it was a CoT issue (Circle of Trust) what the final lynch vote was for ntn. In the end, it was disappointing to lose a game that was so within our grasp. Truth be told, render had already decided to take the night kill again, taking out pass or LSG. If we had got hoops, we'd have been 4-3. However, LSG would still pin the blame on render, and we'd have a tough time getting anyone to peel off render for a return vote on LSG. I'd like to believe I could sell it and spin it, but I think too highly of myself at times. Most of the time. 4-2, we'd have likely taken out LSG again. 3-2. We might have still made it work, but it would have been hard. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

07-20-2007, 11:28 AM	#32
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	I started taking notes on the current game yesterday, after feeling horrible about being uninterested the previous day (blasted new football game). I'll continue to take those notes until the game is over, complete with what I think is going on and my thoughts on how it's going. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

07-20-2007, 12:06 PM	#34
Tyrith College Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Houston, TX	This almost makes me want to play WW again.

07-20-2007, 12:18 PM	#35
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Tyrith, I wish you would. I enjoyed playing with you. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

07-20-2007, 03:28 PM	#38
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Yeah, it was around the 4th or 5th game that the light finally came on for me. The first game, I was totally clueless. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

07-20-2007, 04:19 PM	#41
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	It was a 5-4 vote. Before BK's flip, flop, flap, it was a 3-5-1 (me, hoops, path, I believe) BK switches to me, 4-5. NTN decides, oh shoot, maybe I'm wrong, just like everyone else. 3-6. You switch, as you decided. 4-5. Hoops is still gone. If ntn refreshes his screen half as much as I do, he's in. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

07-20-2007, 05:01 PM	#43
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	If it were the other way around, I'd switch to hoops off of ntn. No problem about it. Three vote swaps on the last minute? I can deal with that. I wouldn't want to take the risk of losing one on my own. Then again, I'm someone that refreshes every few seconds at nearly every deadline...regardless if I'm voting or not. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

07-20-2007, 07:54 PM	#45
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	Don't think I'm discrediting you, ntn. I wasn't around at the deadline, either, due to watching a show. I'm just reflecting on what might have been. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

07-20-2007, 07:58 PM	#46
ntndeacon Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Alabama	I did not think you were discrediting me Ardent. just letting your fair readers why what is a fairly obvious and good idea wasn't used. I probably was a little too strong on my insistence to believe hoops throughout the game. I convinced him, but backed myself into a corner on whom to vote.

07-24-2007, 02:31 PM	#47
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	I didn't even know this thread was here at all. Sorry if you feel I always gun for you Ardent, I think there are just some players who's play style always just feels off for me. I know I've always had problems thinking everything Schmidty or Qwikshot ever posted felt completely wolfish to me as well. I

07-24-2007, 04:23 PM	#48
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	This was a lot of fun to read. Great idea for a dynasty and it looks like you might have gotten us a new player!

07-27-2007, 01:47 PM	#49
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	Bump. Would love to see the notes from last game. I think you had a really good game from our discussions in PM.