Money Investing/Growing Advice

[MikeVic]

I'm starting to get a nice amount of money saved up (well, nice to me...), and I don't like it just sitting in my chequing account.

A savings account with my bank (CIBC) can at most give me 3.05% it seems (http://cibc.com/ca/rates/bank-acct-rates.html)... which doesn't seem like a lot.

This kind of financial stuff is most likely different in Canada and the U.S., so does anyone in Canada have ideas of what I can do?

[MikeVic]

INGdirect.ca seems to do 3.5%... but that seems low too. I would try to learn more about stocks and all that, but I know absolutely nothing right now.

[st.cronin]

I used to work as a stockbroker. You don't need to know much, if anything, to buy stocks. Just buy the stock of a company that makes a good product, a product that you personally like, whether its a brand of coffee or a laptop or shoes or whatever, and don't worry about all the technical stuff.

Most stocks that are publically traded are well-run companies, and if they are making a good product, in the long run, they will make money for you.

[JPhillips]

TIAA-CREF mutual funds have a good history and low fees.

[digamma]

What are you saving for?

What is your time horizon?

How much risk are you willing to accept?

[chesapeake]

Rookie investors are usually better off investing in a mutual fund that tracks one of the major stock indexes. Investing in a single stock or a few stocks significantly increases your risk. As you learn more about investing, you can look into more sector specific mutual funds or even individual stocks.

[MikeVic]

I don't have anything specific that I'm saving for yet. I don't own a house, so eventually I'd be buying one...

I'd like to see some nice change in a year or so.

I don't want a lot of risk. I have some money that I can experiment with, but if there's like a 50% chance of losing all my investment money, I don't want to take that chance.

[st.cronin]

If you go the stock route, you can put in an auto-sell order if the stock drops (or rises) to a certain price. So you can use, say, 90% of your investment as pure leverage, and not have to worry about ever losing it.

[Fidatelo]

If you can, buy the house now. You will not be able to earn enough interest on any investment to make up for the increase in housing costs over that period. I know too many people that sit on their hands for a year or two assuming that the market will cool, and all they do is watch their target house go up in price by 30%.

[Masked]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I'd like to see some nice change in a year or so.

I don't want a lot of risk. I have some money that I can experiment with, but if there's like a 50% chance of losing all my investment money, I don't want to take that chance.

These statements are mutually exclusive (depending on how you define nice change). You have to take on more risk to achieve greater gains (and of course the possibility of larger losses).

If you investment horizon is only one year, should stick with pretty safe investments like CDs or bond funds - no stocks. In the U.S., you would be looking at a ~5% return. If your horizon was longer, say 3-5 years, then an index fund which tracks a diversified group of stocks (e.g. S&P500 or whatever the equivalent for Canada is) would be the way to go. Over long periods, the stock market has returned ~10% a year.

[MikeVic]

I'm not really looking to buy a house right now, or in the next year or two. It was just the only thing I could think of that I would potentially be saving for.

I also had the thought that a bigger return means I have to accept a bigger risk. I'll have to look into mutual funds and the other options mentioned. Maybe a longer period (3-5 years) is also what I HAVE to do. Like I said earlier, I don't have any plans on a big purchase. My school and car are paid off... I'm just trying to generate more money.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Masked

These statements are mutually exclusive (depending on how you define nice change). You have to take on more risk to achieve greater gains (and of course the possibility of larger losses).

If you investment horizon is only one year, should stick with pretty safe investments like CDs or bond funds - no stocks. In the U.S., you would be looking at a ~5% return. If your horizon was longer, say 3-5 years, then an index fund which tracks a diversified group of stocks (e.g. S&P500 or whatever the equivalent for Canada is) would be the way to go. Over long periods, the stock market has returned ~10% a year.

Yeah, what Masked said--pretty much exactly what I was getting at with my questions earlier.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

If you can, buy the house now. You will not be able to earn enough interest on any investment to make up for the increase in housing costs over that period. I know too many people that sit on their hands for a year or two assuming that the market will cool, and all they do is watch their target house go up in price by 30%.

i don't know about Canada, but this isn't the case right now in the USA. housing market is in a cooldown, you have nothing to gain by buying now as opposed to 6 months from now.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

i don't know about Canada, but this isn't the case right now in the USA. housing market is in a cooldown, you have nothing to gain by buying now as opposed to 6 months from now.

Canada's economy is hot right now, and has been for several years. Furthermore, the Winnipeg housing market (where MikeVic lives) was severely depressed for 10-15 years, and has now been rising sharply for about 5 years straight, with no end in sight. This is not a bubble, as we still have one of the lowest-cost housing markets in the country. I can see the market eventually cooling and stabalizing, but there will not likely be any slippage, so unless you are betting that the market will cool in the next 12 months or so, you just can't save fast enough to make it worth holding off.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Canada's economy is hot right now, and has been for several years. Furthermore, the Winnipeg housing market (where MikeVic lives) was severely depressed for 10-15 years, and has now been rising sharply for about 5 years straight, with no end in sight. This is not a bubble, as we still have one of the lowest-cost housing markets in the country. I can see the market eventually cooling and stabalizing, but there will not likely be any slippage, so unless you are betting that the market will cool in the next 12 months or so, you just can't save fast enough to make it worth holding off.

Yeah, that's why I would want to buy a house... you can still get a really nice house for cheap compared to other places, but I just don't want that responsibility of owning a house right now.

I am scared about how much a house will cost when I'm ready to buy.

[Fidatelo]

This story is great: http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2000/12...ing120400.html

You can't buy a shack in Elmwood for less than 100k now. I wish I had been smart enough to buy back in '01 (I waited until '04).

[sabotai]

I'm almost to the point MikeVic is. I'm close to having paid off my credit card and student loans so will be able to actually invest some money soon. But I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to presonal finance stuff. Been trying to educate myself on mutual funds, CDs, bonds, money market accouts, etc..

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by chesapeake

All investors are usually better off investing in a mutual fund that tracks one of the major stock indexes.

Fixed

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Yeah, that's why I would want to buy a house... you can still get a really nice house for cheap compared to other places, but I just don't want that responsibility of owning a house right now.

I am scared about how much a house will cost when I'm ready to buy.

Buying a principal residence is the best investment you can ever make. Forget about not wanting responsibility. If you can make it work, buy now. Get in the market. If the Winnipeg market is as described, then this sounds like a safe investment and will bring you the best return out there. I repeat, get in the housing market as soon as you can comfortably (by that I mean you can weather a modest rate hike in a few years when your mortgage comes due for refinancing) afford the mortgage.

[Flasch186]

to ask a little more regarding SPY or QQQQ:

Are people concerned with a sell off in the market and its effect short term? what is a good maturity length on these stocks to be able to see some real growth? Is this better than say doing a Roth IRA? What is the downside of a Roth IRA with say 10K (which is what Im looking to invest next wk.)? Is there a better alternative with say a max risk of a 4 (on a scale of 1-10 [ I already own 3000 shares of Sirius Satellite radio to have some risk of about a 7]).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Forget about not wanting responsibility.

I don't believe that's an entirely realistic approach. While the investment itself may be sound financially, there's also what I'd call "the cost of worry".

I'm pretty sure there's probably an actual term for this, but what I'm getting at is that the monetary gain might not be worth the amount of grief it costs you. And everybody has a their own level for that.

Without hesitation I'd say home ownership has been the most consistent pain in the ass I've ever dealt with, a perpetual combination of aggravation & worry. And I think that has to at least be considered when making the decision to buy a house as an investment.

I'm not saying that it's never worth it, just saying that it isn't always worth it to everybody.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Fair enough. But in a pure financial sense, it is can't miss (provided you can afford to hold long term).

[MikeVic]

Yeah, buying a house would be too much worry for me right now. I mean, i still live at home. I want to live in an apartment by myself for a bit first before buying a house. As much as I can take care of myself, there's still days where I'm glad I don't have to worry about making something to eat for supper, or finding time for laundry.

I like watching that Mad Money show, and I think I will start tracking stocks he recommends to buy and sell. See if over a period he's right or not.

If I'd want to buy mutual funds (and eventually stocks), is this something I can do online, and if so where do you guys recommend? Or can I do this through my bank? Meet in person, etc... phone in buys and sells...?

I've got about $5,000 I can do something with, and still have money in the bank. Plus as I said, I don't have any big purchases or big bills to pay (just some normal monthly things), so that $5000 will keep on growing.

[MikeVic]

Dola,

The reason I resurrected this thread was because I put some thought into the options given to me, and was sure that mutual funds seemed like the safest way to increase money. So i wanted to start doing that.

Then I started thinking about buying a stock for something I like, and couldn't think of anything. But I saw Gamestop metioned today, and thought I could buy a mutual fund for the (entertainment? Video game?) sector, or Gamestop itself. I like video games, and they always seem to be gaining more share in the entertainment business.

How do I find out about the sector-specific mutual funds?

[st.cronin]

Scottrade has pretty low fees, and you could probably call them up and ask them to find you a fund that meets that description.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Yeah, buying a house would be too much worry for me right now. I mean, i still live at home. I want to live in an apartment by myself for a bit first before buying a house. As much as I can take care of myself, there's still days where I'm glad I don't have to worry about making something to eat for supper, or finding time for laundry.

I like watching that Mad Money show, and I think I will start tracking stocks he recommends to buy and sell. See if over a period he's right or not.

If I'd want to buy mutual funds (and eventually stocks), is this something I can do online, and if so where do you guys recommend? Or can I do this through my bank? Meet in person, etc... phone in buys and sells...?

I've got about $5,000 I can do something with, and still have money in the bank. Plus as I said, I don't have any big purchases or big bills to pay (just some normal monthly things), so that $5000 will keep on growing.

Earlier you said you were hoping to have some "nice change" in about a year. If that timeframe is still accurate, you have to think about the rate of return you'll be earning on that small amount (in investment terms) with a riskier investment vs. a safe one. You can earn around 5% with an Emigrant online savings account, or similar banks, and that is 100% safe and completely liquid (as opposed to a CD, you could pull your money out at any time, or even add in as time goes on, without jeopardizing any of the interest you've earned as a penalty). That rate should be holding steady for the next year. Or you can take some risks with stocks/mutual funds and hope for a 10% return over the year, before fees.

You will be doubling your return...but with your principal amount, you will only be earning an extra $250 with the riskier proposition. Is that worth it to you? Or would you rather make your $250 and not have to worry about doing the research, paying fees, or potential losses?

If you're planning on keeping that money invested long-term, mutual funds/ETFs/stocks are the way to go. But from what you've decribed, I'd just stick it in one of the high-yield savings accounts and rest easy.

[NoSkillz]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Dola,

The reason I resurrected this thread was because I put some thought into the options given to me, and was sure that mutual funds seemed like the safest way to increase money. So i wanted to start doing that.

Then I started thinking about buying a stock for something I like, and couldn't think of anything. But I saw Gamestop metioned today, and thought I could buy a mutual fund for the (entertainment? Video game?) sector, or Gamestop itself. I like video games, and they always seem to be gaining more share in the entertainment business.

How do I find out about the sector-specific mutual funds?

I'm with TD Waterhouse and just started trading stocks about three months ago. TD is great - you can do all your trading online and trading mutual funds is no additional charge. If you are trading mutuals with them, you have access to their financial advisers for no additional fee.

I'm having an absolute blast right now but again, the market has been smoking hot in Canada over the past number of years and is due for a correction.

When that correction will take place is anyone's guess.

If you only have $5000 to invest, I'd suggest sticking with mutual funds as opposed to stocks. The stocks you'd be buying with that type of money would end up being entirely too risky (ie: penny stocks) for you based on your short-term expectations.

If you're looking for good sectors to invest in, I'd definitely recommend getting into a good 'minerals' fund. That market is just booming right now. You also can't go wrong with a solid Canadian Equity fund - most of these funds have a lot invested in the Toronto Stock Exchange and your gains in that fund will mirror how the exchange does.

I'd suggest waiting until you have about $25,000 saved up before venturing into the stock market itself. You can build a nice diversified portfolio with that amount of cash.

If you have any other questions, fire away.

[NoSkillz]

Dola,

Another smart option if you're looking to stay liquid and use the money within a year would be to put it into a Canadian money market fund.

Very safe but you'll only get about 5% out of it. Still, it's better than a savings account.

Just more food for thought.

[johnnyshaka]

MikeVic, if I were you I'd get into the real estate market ASAP. Even if you don't plan on moving out just yet, buy a property somewhere, anywhere because things are just crazy right now and there is no end in sight. Heck, do a deal with your folks (of course I don't know what kind of situation your family is in, financially) to buy a house and rent for a year or until you are ready to go it on your own and whether you decide to sell it then or just move in...either way, you are ahead of the game with some extra cash in your pocket (rental income or profit on the sale of the house).

I bought half of a duplex 5 years ago for $135,000 and I just checked mls.ca right now and somebody else in my neighbourhood with the exact same house is listing at $358,000!!!!!!!!! I checked about a month ago and they were listing at $320,000. That's nearly $40,000 in one bloody month. Yes, markets vary, but like fidatelo said, Winnipeg's is hot, too.

If you are looking to make money, real estate is the place to be.

A fun experiment...if you decide not to get into the housing market, pick an area of Winnipeg where you could afford to buy a house now and try and pick a pretty standard place for the area and write down the specs along with the price you think you'd have to pay now to buy it. Then, every month or two, check mls.ca to see what the same property in the same area is going for. After a year, I'm sure you'll be kicking yourself...but, it would still be intersting to see.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Fair enough. But in a pure financial sense, it is can't miss (provided you can afford to hold long term).

Can't miss?
I am guessing you are under 30?
In the 80s many housing markets pulled back as much as 20% in a 1-2 year period. Parts of Florida have seen pull backs as much as 40% in the last 18 months.

I own 6 houses, and LOVE real estate, but PLEASE do not use the term cant miss.

Also if you arent financially prepared for home ownership it can bankrupt you. As a renter if the HVAC goes out you make a phone call as a landlord that could be a $10,000 problem.

homeownership is a GREAT thing but if you buy when you are ill prepared Murphy has a tendancy to move into your spare bedroom.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Logan

Earlier you said you were hoping to have some "nice change" in about a year. If that timeframe is still accurate, you have to think about the rate of return you'll be earning on that small amount (in investment terms) with a riskier investment vs. a safe one. You can earn around 5% with an Emigrant online savings account, or similar banks, and that is 100% safe and completely liquid (as opposed to a CD, you could pull your money out at any time, or even add in as time goes on, without jeopardizing any of the interest you've earned as a penalty). That rate should be holding steady for the next year. Or you can take some risks with stocks/mutual funds and hope for a 10% return over the year, before fees.

You will be doubling your return...but with your principal amount, you will only be earning an extra $250 with the riskier proposition. Is that worth it to you? Or would you rather make your $250 and not have to worry about doing the research, paying fees, or potential losses?

If you're planning on keeping that money invested long-term, mutual funds/ETFs/stocks are the way to go. But from what you've decribed, I'd just stick it in one of the high-yield savings accounts and rest easy.

Dola

Ok to be fair, a great stock return could easily be 100-200% in a year.
Not likely but COULD BE.
Hell the S&P has AVERAGED 12.8% for 50 years.
12 is a good base line for safe investing.
I havehad 60 and 70 years (2002 comes to mind) but you cant bank on those.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

to ask a little more regarding SPY or QQQQ:

Are people concerned with a sell off in the market and its effect short term? what is a good maturity length on these stocks to be able to see some real growth? Is this better than say doing a Roth IRA? What is the downside of a Roth IRA with say 10K (which is what Im looking to invest next wk.)? Is there a better alternative with say a max risk of a 4 (on a scale of 1-10 [ I already own 3000 shares of Sirius Satellite radio to have some risk of about a 7]).

Roth IRAs are tremendous tools. You can only invest 4k a year though.

One word to anyone who wants to invest: Vanguard.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Dola

Ok to be fair, a great stock return could easily be 100-200% in a year.
Not likely but COULD BE.
Hell the S&P has AVERAGED 12.8% for 50 years.
12 is a good base line for safe investing.
I havehad 60 and 70 years (2002 comes to mind) but you cant bank on those.

My advice was based on the dogfighter wanting a lower risk option, and a short-term option. Coupling those together eliminates the probability of a huge return, especially for a beginning investor. Change either of those variables and options open up. He could speculate on a single stock with his $5000 and see it hit 5 digits or 0 digits by year end. I have a large portion of my retirement funds indexed to the S&P, and yes it's a nice way to go. And yes, the AVERAGE rate of return is 12+% but that is with plenty of years of +25%, +6%, -11%, +17%, -8%, etc. But again, take your "good base line" of 12% and he needs to still ask himself if the excess risk is worth the extra $350 over an online savings account.

That's really my whole point with this...many times people only look at their rate of return, and not necessarily what they're making on their principal and what the costs/benefits are with the investment choice.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Can't miss?
I am guessing you are under 30?
In the 80s many housing markets pulled back as much as 20% in a 1-2 year period. Parts of Florida have seen pull backs as much as 40% in the last 18 months.

I own 6 houses, and LOVE real estate, but PLEASE do not use the term cant miss.

Also if you arent financially prepared for home ownership it can bankrupt you. As a renter if the HVAC goes out you make a phone call as a landlord that could be a $10,000 problem.

homeownership is a GREAT thing but if you buy when you are ill prepared Murphy has a tendancy to move into your spare bedroom.

No, I'm over 30. You missed the part when I said it is can't miss IF you can afford to hold the house long term.

[Flasch186]

SO I just called my accountant and explored the idea of, instead of investing in stocks etc., I should pay down my HELOC which, right now, is $17,000 at 11.25%. While the mo.pmt. is only ~$160 no matter my investments it's tough to make up for 11.25% walking out the door. I mentioned "tax write off" and he said its very limited and doesnt amount to much on that amount of $. Any add'l. advice from this trusted peanut gallery?

BTW upgrade today on GME....I hope this fall is big for Gamestop

[Fidatelo]

What is a HELOC? And 11.25%? Ouch, I'd definitely be paying that off as fast as possible (I'm very adverse to debt though, so my view may be conservative).

[Flasch186]

Home Equity Line of Credit (HELOC), when I bought my home I did an 80/10/10....80 is my first which is a 5yr. ARM to reset in Dec. of '09 (Ill refi before then), 10% is the HELOC (usually a higher rate so that's not necessarily a surprising rate for that), and 10% D.P.

[MikeVic]

I think you guys are right. I should go to my CIBC (bank) and schedule a meeting to discuss Canadian Money Market and mutual funds. I think for now, I'm in a position to just increase by a low-risk percentage. Then once I get more money saved up, try riskier options.

[MikeVic]

Dola,

I'm also someone that doesn't like debt... so I would pay off any debt I had before investing, Flasch. Paying 11.25% on $17,000 seems to be a lot.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Flasch, unless you think you are going to get a return on your stocks that is better than 11.25%, then you ought to pay off the debt. In today's short term climate right now, I am not sure you can say that any stock/funds are guaranteed to get that. So, my advice is pay off the debt. As for a write off on the debt, you are also going to be charged income tax on any investment gain, so again unless you are fairly positive of a high return on the investement, pay off the debt.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Flasch, unless you think you are going to get a return on your stocks that is better than 11.25%, then you ought to pay off the debt. In today's short term climate right now, I am not sure you can say that any stock/funds are guaranteed to get that. So, my advice is pay off the debt. As for a write off on the debt, you are also going to be charged income tax on any investment gain, so again unless you are fairly positive of a high return on the investement, pay off the debt.

You need to get better then 11.25. You need to get 11.25 after tax. Good luck with that.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Can't miss?
I am guessing you are under 30?
In the 80s many housing markets pulled back as much as 20% in a 1-2 year period. Parts of Florida have seen pull backs as much as 40% in the last 18 months.
I own 6 houses, and LOVE real estate, but PLEASE do not use the term cant miss.

Out of interest as someone who's recently moved to florida and is currently watching the real-estate market tumble with interest .... whats your opinion on when it will 'bounce'?

Historic trends seem to indicate a 5 year fall period for housing traditionally within America (ie. when there's a decline it generally happens over a period of 5 years) - assuming the decline started in 2006 would you agree that now is a bad time to purchase property locally or do you think that the market will pick up much quicker than in the past? - if so do you think it'll remain flat or increase again towards its old valuations?

(in Brevard County where I live prices seem to be at least slowing in decline now, but I'm a great believer in showing respect for whats happened in the past ..)

[Flasch186]

well I got a nice bounce out of Gamestop after they reported earnings but this summer has been tumultuous. Im sticking with the plan of having Gamestop through Q1 of next yr. after they report earnings from the gift giving season and then re-evaluate if I shoudl take the money off of the table.

My other gamble, and it is much more of a reach is Sirius sattelite radio. I owned 1000 shares at 3.78 and lost a full buck on it. I hedged my bets buying 2000 more shares at 2.85 and have watched it dicker about as the FCC, FTC, and justice dept. figure out if they will allow the merger. I obviously am betting that they will and then Q1, Q2 they will begin to announce some of the synergies that they'll exploit and hope for profitablity by Q4 of next yr. We shall see. At 2.85 - 3.85 I figure the potential reward outweighs the risk.

[Radii]

As always, I recommend the intro articles at The Motley Fool:

http://www.fool.com/school/basics/basics01.htm

Especially seeing you mention not wanting tons of risk but wanting to maximize your return, read through the intro articles at the Fool, learn about the types of investments available to start to get an idea of the right level of risk/reward for you.


Personally, money that there is any chance at all that I'll need over the next couple years for me sits in an ING Direct savings account. Retirement money is sitting in an IRA at Fidelity in various Index Funds. I'm not debt free though and there's no way to reliably get a better return on investments that will earn me more than the interest on my debt, so that's what I'm focused on for the next two years or so.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Out of interest as someone who's recently moved to florida and is currently watching the real-estate market tumble with interest .... whats your opinion on when it will 'bounce'?

Historic trends seem to indicate a 5 year fall period for housing traditionally within America (ie. when there's a decline it generally happens over a period of 5 years) - assuming the decline started in 2006 would you agree that now is a bad time to purchase property locally or do you think that the market will pick up much quicker than in the past? - if so do you think it'll remain flat or increase again towards its old valuations?

(in Brevard County where I live prices seem to be at least slowing in decline now, but I'm a great believer in showing respect for whats happened in the past ..)

You're in freakin' Florida now? What did I miss?

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

You're in freakin' Florida now? What did I miss?

I moved over earlier this year - my wife's sister has had twins and she wants to help out as much as possible.

I'm still working at SI and strangely enough am currently back in England about to start working 'crunch' for the next release .....

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Out of interest as someone who's recently moved to florida and is currently watching the real-estate market tumble with interest .... whats your opinion on when it will 'bounce'?

Historic trends seem to indicate a 5 year fall period for housing traditionally within America (ie. when there's a decline it generally happens over a period of 5 years) - assuming the decline started in 2006 would you agree that now is a bad time to purchase property locally or do you think that the market will pick up much quicker than in the past? - if so do you think it'll remain flat or increase again towards its old valuations?

(in Brevard County where I live prices seem to be at least slowing in decline now, but I'm a great believer in showing respect for whats happened in the past ..)

Totally missed this post.
I really am not educateed enough to commeent on the Florida housing market. I only know what has happened through a good friend who after visiting us and helping clean a rental that had turned bad, decied landlording wwas fun and when he returned to Fl starting playing RE Mogul. Well 6 months later he was bragging about his millionaire status (02-03 west palm area) and 6 months ago he called to say he was prepariong for his bankruptcy procedures and was contemplating suicide.

I feel very in tune with the Upstate SC and Chralotte NC
housing markets, but I have lived here for 25 of my 30 years on earth. Theere is nothing to replace experience and immersion imo
.

[Flasch186]

Right now is a great time to buy a HOME in Florida, ESPECIALLY if they change the Real Estate Property taxes next year which they likely will (may not be good for Florida in the long run or specific areas).

It is way too turbulent a time to be looking at things from investment standpoints in Florida IMO so the home you buy better be your home. You can get a great deal right now. You wont see a ton of appreciation, if any in some markets and who knows, may even see another drop before December 31st BUT you wont see prices in this ballpark, in some areas, for many many years to come if ever, again.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I moved over earlier this year - my wife's sister has had twins and she wants to help out as much as possible.

I'm still working at SI and strangely enough am currently back in England about to start working 'crunch' for the next release .....

Welcome to the US of A, the greatest country on Earth then! :smirk:

I'm sorry to say we don't show many Brighton games, though, over here.

[Fighter of Foo]

Q&A with Warren Buffett