The Trump Presidency – 2016

[PilotMan]

Edward, all he has to do is come out and say he misspoke, that he meant to say "America was never not great" and that fixes everything and we all have to accept that at face value and move on.

[PilotMan]

I've been teaching my kids (high school) to approach their teachers this year in trump style (with strong sarcasm).

As in, frequent use of 'fake news' for anything that they personally don't agree with or isn't favorable to them or the class.

and if the teacher tells them they are wrong, they just say that 'facts are in the eye of the beholder, I know I'm right, and if that's good enough for the president then it's good enough for me.'

This is just the beginning.

[Ben E Lou]

Sure, I completely get that an argument could be made that America was never "great," and depending on the angle you take, you *might* even get me to agree with parts of said argument. However, if you can't see that *SAYING* that America was never great isn't a bad political move, I'm not sure what I can say to help you get that...

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Speaking as a 90's immigrant, its always been great warts and all when compared to vast majority of countries. Definitely "land of opportunity" and "salad bowl" (vs melting pot) diversity which is great.

Sorry if I missed this earlier in the thread, but you're an immigrant Edward?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Edward, all he has to do is come out and say he misspoke, that he meant to say "America was never not great" and that fixes everything and we all have to accept that at face value and move on.

I agree. I don't really know if he believes what he said. If it was a mistake, just apologize and say he misspoke.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by digamma

Sorry if I missed this earlier in the thread, but you're an immigrant Edward?

I am, originally from APAC.

I am very grateful to the US and the opportunities it has provided me.

[stevew]

Didn't coamo just rip off that one speech from that HBO show basically?

[molson]

Originally Posted by stevew

Didn't coamo just rip off that one speech from that HBO show basically?

Cuomo took it a little further, but ya, it was the cool hipster thing to say and pass around social media about 5 years ago.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by stevew

Didn't coamo just rip off that one speech from that HBO show basically?

Oh Jesus I'd forgotten about that horribly pretentious piece of shit TV show.

[JPhillips]

CNBC on new estimates for Trump's military parade:

The parade, slated for Nov. 10, is estimated to cost $92 million, the official said. The figure includes $50 million from the Pentagon and $42 million from interagency partners such as the Department of Homeland Security. An initial estimate last month pegged the prospective cost for the parade at $12 million.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

CNBC on new estimates for Trump's military parade:

Once security is factored in for Trump, guests and also any military hardware shown off (plus repairs to infrastructure if he is having tanks roll) then I expect it'll run a lot higher than that even ..

[whomario]

America as a whole would greatly benefit if more people would actually desire to improve shit rather than loosing their shit everytime an american dares to point out an issue/flaw. It simply is a fact that the US lags behind large portions of developed countries in key criteria (being better than Angola, Bangladesh or Slovenia should not exactly be the benchmark) and the topic that Cuomo spoke about is one of them.

European countries have their share of nationalists, but in none of them would “we have a problem“ be handled being a statement juuuust short of treason in big media and public alike. It just confounds the shit out of me as an outside observer with a scientific (well, hunanities but still ... ) background ...


48 Countries Are Ahead of the U.S. in Closing the Gender Gap | Time

Key findings on gender equality and discrimination in the U.S. | Pew Research Center

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/cultur...nder-equality/

Gender inequality in the United States - Wikipedia

Those all come up on the first page of a google queery.

Summing it up with regard to the “but what about“ :

That day, full of hope, is immediately followed by conservatives on the Internet declaring that “women in the U.S. don’t need more rights, why don’t they go march in Saudi Arabia?”

[Edward64]

Here's a summary of Trump's trade war with different countries (but doesn't have the latest re: Turkey). Steel and aluminum are common denominators.

Where we stand in Trump’s trade war — POLITICO

[RainMaker]

Local company is moving to Mexico because of the steel costs. I still wonder if these companies are actually moving because of this or if they always planned to and now they can have an excuse to shield them from bad PR.

Chicago-area manufacturer to lay off 150 people, move operations to Mexico, to avoid tariffs on Chinese metal - Chicago Tribune

[Thomkal]

Manafort's trial to continue for another day as they ask the judge four questions, one on the definition of reasonable doubt.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

CNBC on new estimates for Trump's military parade:

There are 40,000 homeless veterans in this country.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

There are 40,000 homeless veterans in this country.

I know it's stating the obvious, but today's Republicans don't care about vets. What they care about is making sure there are red herrings to keep vets from realizing their benefits aren't worth their sacrifices and convincing them that kneeling at a sporting event is an insult to their service.

[JPhillips]

The VFW came out against the parade and now the Pentagon is saying the parade will be postponed. I doubt it ever happens now.

[Ben E Lou]

I’m no fan whatsoever of Omarosa. Full stop.

That said, “believe me, my tapes are much better than theirs” has got to be the Trumpiest way anyone has ever trolled Trump.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/16/u...rump-tape.html

[Lathum]

The local politicians who run Washington, D.C. (poorly) know a windfall when they see it. When asked to give us a price for holding a great celebratory military parade, they wanted a number so ridiculously high that I cancelled it. Never let someone hold you up! I will instead...

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 17, 2018

he is seriously insane, as is his base.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Lathum

The local politicians who run Washington, D.C. (poorly) know a windfall when they see it. When asked to give us a price for holding a great celebratory military parade, they wanted a number so ridiculously high that I cancelled it. Never let someone hold you up! I will instead...

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 17, 2018

he is seriously insane, as is his base.

You know, someone stopped him from doing something stupid, and he got to save face, so he won't keep fucking it up. I'll call it a win for America.

Honestly, people should use this tactic for things like the tariffs, etc. Put it in his head that him not doing his dumbass thing is a somehow a win for him and let him brag about it. He's happy. His supporters are happy. And the dumbass things does not happen.

[Edward64]

Personally, I find this as too much political correctness. I assume she is a Swedish citizen/immigrant and her inability to accommodate simple, basic business norms/etiquette of your host country, suing and winning will help the right wing Sweden Democrats gain votes.

From what I have experience with numerous hijab wearing women (not burqa or niqab) in APAC and in US, shaking hands is not forbidden, especially in a business context.

Muslim Woman Who Refused Handshake And Then Suffered Discrimination Wins Court Case : NPR

A Swedish labor court has ruled that a translation company must pay a Muslim woman 40,000 kronor, or around $4,500, in discrimination compensation, after she said her job interview was shut down upon her explaining she would not shake a male worker's hand for religious reasons.

Farah Alhajeh said she placed her hand over her heart instead of extending it to a male boss at the Semantix offices in her hometown of Uppsala. The 24-year-old told the New York Times that she explained to him she avoided physical contact because of her Muslim faith.

Alhajeh had been hoping to land a job as an interpreter with the company after the May 2016 interview. Instead, she said she was escorted to the elevator, the interview abruptly over.
:
For its part, Semantix argued that it is a defender of gender equality and could not hire somebody who would themselves discriminate based on the gender of the person seeking a handshake.

But Alhajeh told the BBC she respects Sweden's gender equality and thus does not shake anybody's hand.
:
Ultimately the court agreed, ruling that while the company was right in its insistence upon gender equality, it could not enforce it by imposing handshakes. Alhajeh's right to refuse the form of greeting on religious grounds, the court said, is protected by the European Convention on Human Rights.

The labor court said in a statement, as published by the Times, that Alhajeh "adheres to an interpretation of Islam that prohibits handshaking with the opposite sex unless it is a close member of the family."
:
In 2016, two Muslim schoolboys in Switzerland found themselves the subject of international headlines for refusing to shake hands with their teachers as is customary there.

In that case, however, education officials ruled that the significance of the Swiss custom outweighed the boys' religious objections, and the boys were required to shake their teachers' hands.

Not European so not sure how to gauge the sentiments or how "real" it is but there does seem to be a significant nationalist movement going on. Brexit (and Trump) is the most obvious symptom of this. I do think its fair for countries/citizens to ask how much is too much.

Europe and nationalism: A country-by-country guide - BBC News

Across Europe, nationalist and far-right parties have made significant electoral gains.

Some have taken office, others have become the main opposition voice, and even those yet to gain a political foothold have forced centrist leaders to adapt.

In part, this can be seen as a backlash against the political establishment in the wake of the financial and migrant crises, but the wave of discontent also taps into long-standing fears about globalisation and a dilution of national identity.

Although the parties involved span a broad political spectrum, there are some common themes, such as hostility to immigration, anti-Islamic rhetoric and Euroscepticism.

[mckerney]

In speaking with some of the world’s top business leaders I asked what it is that would make business (jobs) even better in the U.S. “Stop quarterly reporting & go to a six month system,” said one. That would allow greater flexibility & save money. I have asked the SEC to study!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 17, 2018

Sounds like someone is worried about bad news coming out before midterms.

[JPhillips]

Attendees began explaining to the president that the VA had not made enough progress on the issue at all, to which Trump responded by abruptly derailing the meeting and asking the attendees if Agent Orange was “that stuff from that movie.”

Source present at the time tell The Daily Beast that multiple people—including Vietnam War veterans—chimed in to inform the president that the Apocalypse Now set piece he was talking about showcased the U.S. military using napalm, not Agent Orange.

Trump refused to accept that he was mistaken and proceeded to say things like, “no, I think it’s that stuff from that movie.”Source present at the time tell The Daily Beast that multiple people—including Vietnam War veterans—chimed in to inform the president that the Apocalypse Now set piece he was talking about showcased the U.S. military using napalm, not Agent Orange.

Trump refused to accept that he was mistaken and proceeded to say things like, “no, I think it’s that stuff from that movie.”

He then went around the room polling attendees about if it was, in fact, napalm or Agent Orange in the famous scene from “that movie,” as the gathering—organized to focus on important, sometimes life-or-death issues for veterans—descended into a pointless debate over Apocalypse Now that the president simply would not concede, despite all the available evidence.

Finally, Trump made eye contact again with Weidman and asked him if it was napalm or Agent Orange. The VVA co-founder assured Trump, as did several before him, that it was in fact napalm, and said that he didn’t like the Coppola film and believed it to be a disservice to Vietnam War veterans.

According to two people in attendance, Trump then flippantly replied to the Vietnam vet, “Well, I think you just didn’t like the movie,” before finally moving on.

From the Daily Beast.

[Edward64]

FWIW, everyone has scenes they remember from movies. The scene with helicopters and "Ride of the Valkyries" playing in the background is one that I've always remembered.

Apocalypse Now - Ride of the Valkyries (1080p) - YouTube


EDIT: let's toss in "I love the smell of napalm in the morning" (at approx 2 min in)

The Smell of Napalm In the Morning - Apocalypse Now (4/8) Movie CLIP (1979) HD - YouTube


Admittedly, the last 30-40 min was just weird.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Personally, I find this as too much political correctness. I assume she is a Swedish citizen/immigrant and her inability to accommodate simple, basic business norms/etiquette of your host country, suing and winning will help the right wing Sweden Democrats gain votes.

From what I have experience with numerous hijab wearing women (not burqa or niqab) in APAC and in US, shaking hands is not forbidden, especially in a business context.

Muslim Woman Who Refused Handshake And Then Suffered Discrimination Wins Court Case : NPR



Not European so not sure how to gauge the sentiments or how "real" it is but there does seem to be a significant nationalist movement going on. Brexit (and Trump) is the most obvious symptom of this. I do think its fair for countries/citizens to ask how much is too much.

Europe and nationalism: A country-by-country guide - BBC News

It's not political correctness Edward, it's too much importance on religious 'freedom'. I guess, call it what you will, but frankly, the bending over backward for religions reasons is far beyond acceptable, and should have no place in government.

Those nationalist gains are being fed considerably, but the Russian sphere of influence. The more that perspective gains, the more influential Russia becomes in those areas, as that is a very Russian way of thinking. You cannot underestimate the solid insurgency that they are waging in Europe.

[Ksyrup]

Isn't that the movie with the line "I love the smell of napalm in the morning"? No one bothered to point out that quote to him? Not that it's an argument anyone needed to win. Movie or not, we used both in Vietnam.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Isn't that the movie with the line "I love the smell of napalm in the morning"?

It is! I added that link in my above post. Great scene.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Lathum

The local politicians who run Washington, D.C. (poorly) know a windfall when they see it. When asked to give us a price for holding a great celebratory military parade, they wanted a number so ridiculously high that I cancelled it. Never let someone hold you up! I will instead...

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 17, 2018

he is seriously insane, as is his base.

Hey, at least that money won't go to waste and will instead directly benefit those that were to be honoured in the para ... Wait, is that a new Jet ? Let's go with that instead !

....attend the big parade already scheduled at Andrews Air Force Base on a different date, & go to the Paris parade, celebrating the end of the War, on November 11th. Maybe we will do something next year in D.C. when the cost comes WAY DOWN. Now we can buy some more jet fighters!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 17, 2018

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Sure, I completely get that an argument could be made that America was never "great," and depending on the angle you take, you *might* even get me to agree with parts of said argument. However, if you can't see that *SAYING* that America was never great isn't a bad political move, I'm not sure what I can say to help you get that...

If this keeps him from thinking he can run for President, good.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

It's not political correctness Edward, it's too much importance on religious 'freedom'. I guess, call it what you will, but frankly, the bending over backward for religions reasons is far beyond acceptable, and should have no place in government.

I do think this falls under PC but basically agree. Definition of "bending over backwards" will differ.

[whomario]

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-envir...ntal-terrorist

US interior secretary's school friend crippling climate research, scientists say | US news | The Guardian

sounds about right.

[Thomkal]

Zinke has kind of been forgotten about with the crazy stuff Scott Pruitt was doing as head of the EPA. Maybe now that he's gone, more attention to what Zinke has been doing will be given.

[Edward64]

The article didn't have full text (or maybe this is the full text). If this is all he said, wasn't much of an apology.

New York Governor Andrew Cuomo: 'Of Course America Is Great' | HuffPost

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Friday that he was “inartful” when he said earlier in the week that America “was never that great,” a comment that was widely condemned and mocked by critics on the right and left.

“I want to be very clear: Of course America is great and of course America has always been great,” Cuomo, a Democrat, told reporters on a conference call. “My family is evidence of American greatness.”

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by whomario

Hey, at least that money won't go to waste and will instead directly benefit those that were to be honoured in the para ... Wait, is that a new Jet ? Let's go with that instead !

And the cost for a new jet is also about 90 million. At least the you'd have something to show for the money with a jet.

[Thomkal]

Looks like the Manafort trial will continue on Monday Also the judge has received death threats, and as a result will not release the names and addresses of jurors when the trial is over. He also can't believe the amount of interest in the case by everyday Americans. Given how close he lives to Washington, that's a bit mind-boggling

[stevew]

There's no way they can delay the Collins trial till after the 2020 election right? I just don't want to see that mother f***** get pardoned

[stevew]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

And the cost for a new jet is also about 90 million. At least the you'd have something to show for the money with a jet.

I mean if you want to waste a bunch of money they might as well just have e random Lottery for military people and give them each a million dollars

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by stevew

There's no way they can delay the Collins trial till after the 2020 election right? I just don't want to see that mother f***** get pardoned

It's cute you think that Trump gives a shit about the trial. He pardoned Arpaio before Arpaio could even be sentenced. If Trump's seriously worried about Collins' legal future, he'll issue a pardon before things can even go to trial and call it a day.

That ain't DoJ policy, but neither is 'issuing a pardon before sentence is pronounced.'

[whomario]

Reading a bit more about the former officials signing that open letter and how they worked in high positions under different presidents of different parties and different agendas ... Isn't the biggest damage these 4/8 years are doing that this might not happen again for a while ? Or are these intelligence/millitary guys more of an exception than i realize anyway ? I mean, even if whoever succeeds Trump (especially if its a democrat) is taking some sort of 'high road' approach, many of the people apointed by Trump will be damaged goods and pretty much unsellable to their voters and then you'll get into “you replaced our guys, we will do the same now“ cycle.
Seems to me that this lack of cohesion and job-based service (so not dependent on politics) could be incredibly damaging in the long term.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by whomario

Reading a bit more about the former officials signing that open letter and how they worked in high positions under different presidents of different parties and different agendas ... Isn't the biggest damage these 4/8 years are doing that this might not happen again for a while ? Or are these intelligence/millitary guys more of an exception than i realize anyway ? I mean, even if whoever succeeds Trump (especially if its a democrat) is taking some sort of 'high road' approach, many of the people apointed by Trump will be damaged goods and pretty much unsellable to their voters and then you'll get into “you replaced our guys, we will do the same now“ cycle.
Seems to me that this lack of cohesion and job-based service (so not dependent on politics) could be incredibly damaging in the long term.

We will be seeing the damage for a while, especially when the tariffs really hit, because a lot of those companies won't come back now.

I'm not sure we will hit that cycle you discussed. Trump is popular with older people, who are going to die out. The younger generation is paying attention and will go to the polls. I think history will show Trump is the worst thing that could ever happen to the Republican party.

[Edward64]

My initial reaction was WTF but it is an interesting idea.

The article doesn't go into details as to what this semi-privatization will strategically accomplish beyond saving money (e.g. is this supposed to wipe out the Taliban/AQ), doesn't talk about how many US troops will still be needed if implemented, what is US obligations if the contractors get taken hostage etc.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/militar...ze-war-n901401

President Donald Trump is increasingly venting frustration to his national security team about the U.S. strategy in Afghanistan and showing renewed interest in a proposal by Blackwater founder Erik Prince to privatize the war, current and former senior administration officials said.

Prince's idea, which first surfaced last year during the president's Afghanistan strategy review, envisions replacing troops with private military contractors who would work for a special U.S. envoy for the war who would report directly to the president.

It has raised ethical and security concerns among senior military officials, key lawmakers and members of Trump's national security team. A year after Trump's strategy announcement, his advisers are worried his impatience with the Afghanistan conflict will cause him to seriously consider proposals like Prince's or abruptly order a complete U.S. withdrawal, officials said.

If this happens, it will undercut the generals but I could see troops supporting this.

Prince, a staunch Trump supporter whose sister is Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, argues that after 17 years of war in Afghanistan, it's time for the U.S. to try something new.

"I know he's frustrated," Prince said of the president. "He gave the Pentagon what they wanted. ...And they haven't delivered."

Its easy to say Prince wants to make alot of money. He does have a valid point though about "try something new" though.

"No such proposal from Erik Prince is under consideration," the spokesperson said. "The president, like most Americans, would like to see more progress in Afghanistan. However, he also recognizes that withdrawing precipitously from Afghanistan would lead to the re-emergence of terrorist safe havens, putting American national security and lives in danger."

US troop deaths was 14 and 17 in 2016 and 2017. I assume this is because more Afghan troops are doing the brunt of the work now. It does look like a draw/status quo but can easily see the government troops collapsing if the US withdraws (and the Taliban has more time). I just don't see the Afghan troops being self-sufficient.

Trump's renewed interest in privatization was stoked by a recent video shot by Prince, according to a senior administration official, in which Prince argues that deploying private contractors instead of U.S. troops, and using limited government resources, would save the U.S. money.
:
It calls for private contractors and aircraft to aid Afghan forces, with some help from the CIA and the Pentagon's special operations forces — all of whom would be overseen by a U.S. government envoy for Afghanistan policy who reports directly to the president and is given the authority to coordinate with the Afghan government.

I can believe saving money but is the proposition really going to change the status quo and will private contractors really be better than US troops? Will Americans feel "less" when mercenaries are brought back in body bags, captured and beheaded?


I think most can agree that there was a legitimate reason to go into Afghanistan but I think most can also agree that 17 years later, something is not working.

[Lathum]

No conflict of interest there or anything.

Not to mention, who polices this band of Mercs? What happens if some of them go rogue and kill a bunch of kids or something? Does that fall on the US?

[bhlloy]

Yeah, dear god. Did we forget what happened the last time we allowed Blackwater to run their own private war on behalf of the US government already?

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Yeah, dear god. Did we forget what happened the last time we allowed Blackwater to run their own private war on behalf of the US government already?

Yeah, we literally just did this and it was a shitshow. At least Vietnam to Afghanistan was a 25 year wat between mistakes. This is less than ten.

[PilotMan]

Not to mention that the whole CIA, army, mercs, thing went down in Central America in the 80's too and you can't call that a success either.

[Atocep]

It's gold to try to pass this off as something new and ignore the fact it's failed spectacularly multiple times in the past.

[miami_fan]

They could accomplish the same thing by getting rid of the UCMJ and all of the ROEs and just letting things sort of happen. It might actually save money as well.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Personally, I find this as too much political correctness. I assume she is a Swedish citizen/immigrant and her inability to accommodate simple, basic business norms/etiquette of your host country, suing and winning will help the right wing Sweden Democrats gain votes.

From what I have experience with numerous hijab wearing women (not burqa or niqab) in APAC and in US, shaking hands is not forbidden, especially in a business context.

Muslim Woman Who Refused Handshake And Then Suffered Discrimination Wins Court Case : NPR

Not European so not sure how to gauge the sentiments or how "real" it is but there does seem to be a significant nationalist movement going on. Brexit (and Trump) is the most obvious symptom of this. I do think its fair for countries/citizens to ask how much is too much.

Europe and nationalism: A country-by-country guide - BBC News

Switzerland, thank you for showing the Swedes they are pansies.

Muslim couple denied Swiss citizenship over no handshake - BBC News

A Muslim couple have been denied Swiss citizenship after they refused to shake hands with people of the opposite sex during their interview, officials say.

They confirmed the decision on Friday, further citing the couple's failure to integrate and respect gender equality.

The couple, interviewed months ago, also struggled to answer questions by members of the opposite sex.

The Swiss authorities said aspiring citizens must be well integrated into the Swiss community and demonstrate an attachment to Switzerland, its institutions and a respect for the Swiss legal order.
:
This not the first time refused handshakes have stirred controversy in Switzerland.

In 2016, a Swiss school decided to exempt two Muslim boys from shaking both male and female teachers' hands after they refused to shake hands with a female teacher. The news caused uproar and led to the family's citizenship process being suspended.

In neighbouring France, an Algerian woman was denied citizenship after refusing to shake the hand of an official during her citizenship ceremony.

[stevew]

Gary freaking Johnson