If Trump Loses In November, What Do You Think Happens Next

[sovereignstar v2]

Droves Jerry, droves!

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[cuervo72]

I think someone mentioned in the COVID thread Idaho being "under the radar" crazy; guess radar starting to pick it up.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/relig...taylor-greene/

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by henry296

Since the base is always growing, hard to maintain the same rate. Do you the data in raw increases per year?

I do not. It is worth mentioning that the title of the article I pulled that graph from was "Florida fastest growing state for first time since 1957" so it is performing well relative to all the other states, right now, but it is definitely not experiencing historic growth rates, aside from historic lows. Finally, that article also mentioned that the previous fastest growing state was Idaho, which may speak to its value as an indicator.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

What evidence do you have that people are moving to Florida because of DeSantis instead of, say, cheaper housing prices and no state income tax?

Hardly sounds draconian. Sounds pretty good, actually. The only evidence I have is that people don’t flock to draconian systems. Which is what opponents are accusing Florida under DeSantis as being.

[Flasch186]

I don’t understand how you guys are debating the intentions of the people who authored the law or looking at their past motivations to try and draw conclusions. As we learned in the Don’t Say Gay thread, that is not allowed and all that should be thought of is the language in the law itself and not how it affects the people because the people will just go to court to fight it and fix it. Shang ri E.


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[cuervo72]

So, what's the sales pitch from FL then to my non-binary, non-churchgoing child and their mixed-race girlfriend, both in their early 20s, who are just starting out? Why should Florida seem inviting to them?

[Lathum]

You have to be blind to not see his only goal is to create a generation of uneducated GOP voters who will be easily manipulated and work for cheap.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

What evidence do you have that people are moving to Florida because of DeSantis instead of, say, cheaper housing prices and no state income tax?

Purely anecdotal of course but he (or really his policy focuses) are a primary reason that I may skip any intermediate relocation in Georgia and head straight to Florida when I finally get to move.

While it had some distance to make up, it's certainly the leader among "states headed in the right direction" afaic. Something I sure as hell can't say about the one I'm in.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

So, what's the sales pitch from FL then to my non-binary, non-churchgoing child and their mixed-race girlfriend, both in their early 20s, who are just starting out? Why should Florida seem inviting to them?

They don't want them here

Then they don't want them in the SE

Then they don't want them in the USA

unless of course...

They fall in line. Then we'll have them here in the Sunshine State.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

So, what's the sales pitch from FL then to my non-binary, non-churchgoing child and their mixed-race girlfriend, both in their early 20s, who are just starting out? Why should Florida seem inviting to them?

I don't believe there is/would be a sales pitch based on your description.

(I'm unsure if I've maybe missed something in the thread & they already moved there or are there, so I'm not entirely sure whether my comment is in the proper context or not. If not, ignore it I guess)

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I think someone mentioned in the COVID thread Idaho being "under the radar" crazy; guess radar starting to pick it up.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/relig...taylor-greene/

There's a strong belief by many in Eastern Washington/Oregon and Idaho that a holy war is coming. We've seen horror stories of groups overtaking small towns or even small counties with their extremist views by stacking city councils, ect. Their goal in Idaho had been to do it at the state level and then claim those parts of Washington and Oregon as theirs while they prepare for the war they believe is coming.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I don't believe there is/would be a sales pitch based on your description.

(I'm unsure if I've maybe missed something in the thread & they already moved there or are there, so I'm not entirely sure whether my comment is in the proper context or not. If not, ignore it I guess)

GF completed her BS (biochem), both were thinking of moving out (because that's what young people ideally want to do) and were contemplating where to go to a) apply for jobs, or b) continue (or in the case of mine, resume) their education. So money is a factor (cost of living, job market), but so is if the place might be hostile, if not downright dangerous (a calculation many make, just with different variables).

At the end of the day they decided to stay put for now and apply for jobs here (or for mine just stay with current employer, maybe with more hours), and lucked into accommodations (while the area is growing, new construction can't keep up with demand and what's being built is marketed as "high end" whatever. Even a batch of new townhouses popping up in the former farmer's field adjacent to us are for rent only. Idea of paying out the nose while not building equity isn't something that thrills them.)

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

So, what's the sales pitch from FL then to my non-binary, non-churchgoing child and their mixed-race girlfriend, both in their early 20s, who are just starting out? Why should Florida seem inviting to them?

Especially if they have a dog that they like taking for a ride in the car.

Florida Dem drops proposal to ban dogs from sticking their heads out the car window

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

So, what's the sales pitch from FL then to my non-binary, non-churchgoing child and their mixed-race girlfriend, both in their early 20s, who are just starting out? Why should Florida seem inviting to them?

Cheaper housing (although that is changing rapidly with the influx of NY/PHI/DC/CHI money). No state income taxes. Great weather. Sometimes good football, great hockey, cheap baseball, the arts, Key West, Miami, Tampa, Orlando. Lots of enclaves full of 20-somethings, lots to do.

[flere-imsaho]

You confuse me, Dutch.

Originally Posted by Dutch

DeSantis is wildly popular (relatively speaking for governors in swing states). There is absolutely the possibility he goes too far. But so far, people are voting with their feet and moving to Florida in droves. It’s likely hard for people to understand unless you grew up in the DC area in the 80’s and 90’s and saw the incredible growth happening there.

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

What evidence do you have that people are moving to Florida because of DeSantis instead of, say, cheaper housing prices and no state income tax?

Originally Posted by Dutch

Hardly sounds draconian. Sounds pretty good, actually. The only evidence I have is that people don’t flock to draconian systems. Which is what opponents are accusing Florida under DeSantis as being.

Originally Posted by Dutch

Cheaper housing (although that is changing rapidly with the influx of NY/PHI/DC/CHI money). No state income taxes. Great weather. Sometimes good football, great hockey, cheap baseball, the arts, Key West, Miami, Tampa, Orlando. Lots of enclaves full of 20-somethings, lots to do.

FWIW, I never said draconian. Glad we got that sorted out, though. People are moving to FL for Quality of Life and Cost of Living reasons more generally than they are for DeSantis' draconian/non-draconian policy implementations.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Purely anecdotal of course but he (or really his policy focuses) are a primary reason that I may skip any intermediate relocation in Georgia and head straight to Florida when I finally get to move.

Yeah, but Dutch said "droves". Are droves of people who think like you are moving to FL? What's a "drove", anyway.

While it had some distance to make up, it's certainly the leader among "states headed in the right direction" afaic. Something I sure as hell can't say about the one I'm in.

Given climate change, it's headed to the bottom of the ocean so I guess that's something we can both agree upon. Maybe we can have an argument about whether my blue state taxes should pay for Florida's imminent flooding mitigation efforts.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Yeah, but Dutch said "droves". Are droves of people who think like you are moving to FL? What's a "drove", anyway.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to confuse anybody or show my age by saying people were moving here in droves.

Statistically, to say what I think most everybody knows, Florida and Texas overall easily outpace the field as the top two states for domestic immigration while NY and California easily outpace the field for domestic emigration.

My area, Tampa Bay market, is #1 nationally and #8 for young adults (25-34).

Given climate change, it's headed to the bottom of the ocean so I guess that's something we can both agree upon. Maybe we can have an argument about whether my blue state taxes should pay for Florida's imminent flooding mitigation efforts.

If it makes you feel better, our flood insurance taxes are going up every year to off-set national disaster money. Im not sure how much it costs national tax payers, but we all know it’s part of the deal and mostly everyone is all for reducing the amount of taxes any state has to pay for Floridians to live by the water (to be fair, we can’t help it, we’re geographically surrounded!) But we are progressing along those lines.

As for climate change, if a tortoise can outrun the rising sea waters, I think the humans along the coast will be quick enough to survive the creeping doom of the salty red tides.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Lathum

You have to be blind to not see his only goal is to create a generation of uneducated GOP voters who will be easily manipulated and work for cheap.

Less competition in the workforce I guess. Although I guess my state will have fork over more money to cover their welfare checks.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Yeah, but Dutch said "droves". Are droves of people who think like you are moving to FL? What's a "drove", anyway.

Srsly? How does anyone not know that word? Cambridge dictionary does the best definition for our purposes a large group, especially of people, moving toward a place or doing something together as a group. It's synonymous with "(a) herd", though the usage is more people-specific. Origin seem to be 12th century Old English "draf" meaning herd.

Behaviorally I think it's more common that people who think like me are looking to Florida over the past couple of years with a combination of admiration & awe, with no small measure of jealousy. But not everyone I know like me is moving yet, though I do know several who have made that very move, each commenting after the fact how nice it was to see some semblance of sane leadership for a change.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Lathum

You have to be blind to not see his only goal is to create a generation of uneducated GOP voters who will be easily manipulated and work for cheap.

you mean the Ayn Rand fever dream?

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Atocep

There's a strong belief by many in Eastern Washington/Oregon and Idaho that a holy war is coming. We've seen horror stories of groups overtaking small towns or even small counties with their extremist views by stacking city councils, ect. Their goal in Idaho had been to do it at the state level and then claim those parts of Washington and Oregon as theirs while they prepare for the war they believe is coming.

The beliefs of these groups are straight out of White Supremacist dreams and prognostications. It started as the coming race war, and it's sort of morphed along the way to whatever fit the situation. Either way, it's all just steeped in white supremacy.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Cheaper housing (although that is changing rapidly with the influx of NY/PHI/DC/CHI money). No state income taxes. Great weather. Sometimes good football, great hockey, cheap baseball, the arts, Key West, Miami, Tampa, Orlando. Lots of enclaves full of 20-somethings, lots to do.

Plus a governor who wants to legislate you from existence and a not insignificant percentage of the population that thinks your goal is to force their kid to have public bathroom sex or force them into gender reassignment surgery.

But the Lightening!

[Ksyrup]

I went to a Lightning game in December and it WAS a pretty fun experience. For a visitor, anyway.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Plus a governor who wants to legislate you from existence and a not insignificant percentage of the population that thinks your goal is to force their kid to have public bathroom sex or force them into gender reassignment surgery.

But the Lightening!

Lightning aren’t as good as they were but still a fun team to watch. Like I said, the immigration numbers should clue you in that reality is much better than the grizzly tales you’re reading about online.

[GrantDawg]

Hockey games is fun to attend, but I find it unwatchable on TV. Not what we are talking about, but anyway.

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[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Hockey games is fun to attend, but I find it unwatchable on TV. Not what we are talking about, but anyway.

I wouldn't go that far but it probably does suffer more from that issue than any major sport.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Plus a governor who wants to legislate you from existence and a not insignificant percentage of the population that thinks your goal is to force their kid to have public bathroom sex or force them into gender reassignment surgery.

But the Lightening!

Make sure you fill out the form telling the state when your underage daughter is menstruating.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Make sure you fill out the form telling the state when your underage daughter is menstruating.

That's the super secret question to catch all the trannies playing in women's sports.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Srsly? How does anyone not know that word? Cambridge dictionary does the best definition for our purposes a large group, especially of people, moving toward a place or doing something together as a group. It's synonymous with "(a) herd", though the usage is more people-specific. Origin seem to be 12th century Old English "draf" meaning herd.

Stop with the Western literary traditions, but thank you, it closes a loop for some.

Behaviorally I think it's more common that people who think like me are looking to Florida over the past couple of years with a combination of admiration & awe, with no small measure of jealousy. But not everyone I know like me is moving yet, though I do know several who have made that very move, each commenting after the fact how nice it was to see some semblance of sane leadership for a change.

Come on down! The waters warm! Though rising and sometimes uninhabitable… lol.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Sorry, I didn’t mean to confuse anybody or show my age by saying people were moving here in droves.

Well, I mean, too late....

Statistically, to say what I think most everybody knows, Florida and Texas overall easily outpace the field as the top two states for domestic immigration while NY and California easily outpace the field for domestic emigration.

CA, IL, & NY are dominated by large urban areas in which it is expensive to live, while both FL & TX are cheaper and both, especially TX, build a lot of sprawl, which helps with costs, if you like that kind of thing.

I looked this up, however, and it's been this way for a while. I wonder how much of it, too, is driven by snowbirds & boomers retiring.

Anyway, I still see no evidence that people are moving "in droves" to TX or FL because of the culture war policies of Abbott or DeSantis (except Jon, of course).

If it makes you feel better, our flood insurance taxes are going up every year to off-set national disaster money.

I was kidding. I'll get truly wound up about how Florida spends my money once I'm doing being wound up about how Democratic-dominated Cook County, IL, wastes my money.

As for climate change, if a tortoise can outrun the rising sea waters, I think the humans along the coast will be quick enough to survive the creeping doom of the salty red tides.

I got $20 on the tortoise vs. the retiree in their unmaintained wheelchair.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Srsly? How does anyone not know that word? Cambridge dictionary does the best definition for our purposes a large group, especially of people, moving toward a place or doing something together as a group. It's synonymous with "(a) herd", though the usage is more people-specific. Origin seem to be 12th century Old English "draf" meaning herd.

I know what the words means, Jon. I was asking to what numerical order of magnitude Dutch was ascribing it.

Behaviorally I think it's more common that people who think like me are looking to Florida over the past couple of years with a combination of admiration & awe, with no small measure of jealousy. But not everyone I know like me is moving yet, though I do know several who have made that very move, each commenting after the fact how nice it was to see some semblance of sane leadership for a change.

Does beg the question what happens when people like you are sequestered into states like FL, TX, OK, ID, etc... and people like me are sequestered into states like CA, IL, TX, MA, etc.... I mean, more so than in the past.

[flere-imsaho]

As someone with a Masters in History, meaning I had to actually be all academic about it, the furore over CRT is hilarious. Like, literally the first thing you learn when you start working with primary souces is that they all have bias.

To take a very simple and also non-racial example, when I was doing my research and reading chroniclers of the Hundred Years' War, it was important to understand how some of them were going to, for various reasons, overestimate the size of the English armies, and others would, for various other reasons, overestimate the size of the French armies.

Bias is rife in history. Heck, it's rife now. Why wouldn't you want to teach children tools for how to discern bias in any source, current or historical, with which they are presented?

That was a rhetorical question, by the way.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

As someone with a Masters in History, meaning I had to actually be all academic about it, the furore over CRT is hilarious. Like, literally the first thing you learn when you start working with primary souces is that they all have bias.

To take a very simple and also non-racial example, when I was doing my research and reading chroniclers of the Hundred Years' War, it was important to understand how some of them were going to, for various reasons, overestimate the size of the English armies, and others would, for various other reasons, overestimate the size of the French armies.

Bias is rife in history. Heck, it's rife now. Why wouldn't you want to teach children tools for how to discern bias in any source, current or historical, with which they are presented?

That was a rhetorical question, by the way.

That’s fair. Bias does come with a weighted scale. For example, not a lot of people foaming at the mouth when some one incorrectly assumed the French had exactly 37 bronze cannon instead of ~10-37 bronze cannon at battlefield X. All respect to history teachers/enthusiasts who may have gotten heated over a scenario like that, of course.

[flere-imsaho]

Yeah, but there again, we should be teaching kids how to look at sources objectively, without emotion. As you note, easy to do with events 700 years in the past, which is a good enough reason to work up to issues of bias where there really will be contention.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I know what the words means, Jon.

That was legitimately unclear to me.

(hence me wondering how it was even possible)

[Edward64]

I assume the FL coastal cities are going to be toast within 50-100 years but my hopes for Orlando and a nice condo close by the theme parks (nightly fireworks show) will be safe from the rising waters.

[flere-imsaho]

Orlando's 82' above sea level. You should be OK. Your grandkids, probably not.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Less competition in the workforce I guess. Although I guess my state will have fork over more money to cover their welfare checks.

There's always the other option: "'If they would rather die, they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."

SI

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Orlando's 82' above sea level. You should be OK. Your grandkids, probably not.

That’s the exact same thing I say to fans at Raymond James Stadium yelling, “Go Steelers!!!”. (Minus the part about a watery death, of course.)

[Lathum]

The party that wanted to cancel M and Ms because they weren't fuckable anymore is angry because Scott Adams is now being canceled for literally saying move as far away from black people as you can.

What a world.

[RainMaker]

Unclear if she had the abortion outside the state of Arkansas since it is illegal in that state. But goes to show the ruling was really about preventing others from getting abortions, not themselves.

To be clear this is a member of one of the most famous vocally anti-abortion families……admitting she got an abortion…… https://t.co/ia3WrqMZj1

— josie duffy rice (@jduffyrice) February 26, 2023

[bronconick]

It's a miscarriage when rich white Christians do it. It's an abortion when anyone else does it.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Unclear if she had the abortion outside the state of Arkansas since it is illegal in that state. But goes to show the ruling was really about preventing others from getting abortions, not themselves.

When you, as in YOU RM, use the same language that the far right uses to describe a standard procedure that has been around for decades, and is a vital part of women's health, you empower the right, and you normalize their mischaracterization of the term and the procedure.

I take great exception to your description. Yes, some states think a D&C is the same as an abortion and treat it as such. They are 100% wrong to do so. It puts women in harmful situations and it's far beyond cruel to the families. The stories of states that have restrictions on the D&C need to be vilified.

By defining it using their terms, you fuck us all. It's a D&C. It's a must have, non negotiable, part of prenatal care. The fact that we're even having to defend that in 2023 is fucking stupid. Please don't call it an abortion.

I've been through that exact situation twice, and each time was life altering. The D&C was necessary, it was sad, oh, so very sad. We cried a lot. Instead of calling it an abortion, and who did it, and why are they allowed to get away with it, let's focus on the fact that this is a very common medical procedure, that is vital, and what our world would look like without it, and point fingers at the dumb fucks who decided we didn't need it anymore.

[Flasch186]

Isn't this what he did

"point fingers at the dumb fucks who decided we didn't need it anymore."

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Lathum

The party that wanted to cancel M and Ms because they weren't fuckable anymore is angry because Scott Adams is now being canceled for literally saying move as far away from black people as you can.

What a world.

Adams looked at how much fame and money a “cancelled” person gets on the Right Wing grievance tour and realized he was a sucker working for a living.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

When you, as in YOU RM, use the same language that the far right uses to describe a standard procedure that has been around for decades, and is a vital part of women's health, you empower the right, and you normalize their mischaracterization of the term and the procedure.

I take great exception to your description. Yes, some states think a D&C is the same as an abortion and treat it as such. They are 100% wrong to do so. It puts women in harmful situations and it's far beyond cruel to the families. The stories of states that have restrictions on the D&C need to be vilified.

By defining it using their terms, you fuck us all. It's a D&C. It's a must have, non negotiable, part of prenatal care. The fact that we're even having to defend that in 2023 is fucking stupid. Please don't call it an abortion.

I've been through that exact situation twice, and each time was life altering. The D&C was necessary, it was sad, oh, so very sad. We cried a lot. Instead of calling it an abortion, and who did it, and why are they allowed to get away with it, let's focus on the fact that this is a very common medical procedure, that is vital, and what our world would look like without it, and point fingers at the dumb fucks who decided we didn't need it anymore.

Same experience when my wife and I were younger.

Thanks for stating things so clearly. My wife struggled with the emotional consequences of the D&C for years - even in the case where there was clearly no heartbeat.

I'm sorry you and your wife also had to go through this.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Isn't this what he did

"point fingers at the dumb fucks who decided we didn't need it anymore."

That's how a took it. It's a procedure the right is banning or trying to ban that falls under their definition of abortion.

I took RM pointing it out as their willingness to move the goalposts and change definitions based on who it applies to.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Atocep

That's how a took it. It's a procedure the right is banning or trying to ban that falls under their definition of abortion.

I took RM pointing it out as their willingness to move the goalposts and change definitions based on who it applies to.

YEah. I took it as RM just using their own BS definition against them to illustrate the hypocrisy.

Unfortunately my wife and I went through it twice as well and it was horrible.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

When you, as in YOU RM, use the same language that the far right uses to describe a standard procedure that has been around for decades, and is a vital part of women's health, you empower the right, and you normalize their mischaracterization of the term and the procedure.

I take great exception to your description. Yes, some states think a D&C is the same as an abortion and treat it as such. They are 100% wrong to do so. It puts women in harmful situations and it's far beyond cruel to the families. The stories of states that have restrictions on the D&C need to be vilified.

By defining it using their terms, you fuck us all. It's a D&C. It's a must have, non negotiable, part of prenatal care. The fact that we're even having to defend that in 2023 is fucking stupid. Please don't call it an abortion.

She had an abortion. The fetus was non-viable and she terminated the pregnancy. Not criticizing her or anyone else who has this procedure. Abortion is an incredibly broad term. A miscarriage is defined as a spontaneous abortion.

It's not me changing the definition, it's the right. They've tried to get you and others to believe that abortions are when a poor black woman uses it because they were lazy and slutty. Abortions are done all the time to protect the Mother. They are done when the fetus is not viable. They are done for all sorts of perfectly acceptable medical reasons.

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I've been through that exact situation twice, and each time was life altering. The D&C was necessary, it was sad, oh, so very sad. We cried a lot. Instead of calling it an abortion, and who did it, and why are they allowed to get away with it, let's focus on the fact that this is a very common medical procedure, that is vital, and what our world would look like without it, and point fingers at the dumb fucks who decided we didn't need it anymore.

My issue is that procedures like this are banned in 13 states, including the one she lives in. She is allowed to get it because she is rich, white, and friends with the Governor. You or someone else would not be given that luxury. Read about similar cases in other states where patients have to travel over state lines or deliver dead fetuses (with the risk of complications) because of these laws.

And that's how abortion was treated pre-Roe. Illegal for the masses but allowed for the rich and connected. Just change the name of the procedure a little.

I am happy she was able to get this medical procedure. I feel bad she has to go through it. I think it is unfortunate that she believes that she should be able to make those decisions for herself but you and others should not.

[Dutch]

Rainmaker is right. I just looked it up.

White - 100%
Black - 0%
Hispanic - 0%
Asian - 0%
Other - 0%

Rich - 100%
Poor - 0%

Knows governor - 100%
Doesn’t know Governor - 0%

[RainMaker]

Same situation here. This lady had to travel 400 miles to Illinois.

Abortion ban causes complications for Arkansan family | thv11.com