If Trump Loses In November, What Do You Think Happens Next

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Same situation here. This lady had to travel 400 miles to Illinois.

Abortion ban causes complications for Arkansan family | thv11.com

Every state is different. Depending on how quickly she wants to do this, here are some travel options.

Approximate Travel Time (400 miles)
Car 6-8 hours
Plane 1-2 hours

[miked]

The party of limited government has now voted to install a board to govern Disneyworld (not Disney) because they spoke out against a bill said party pushed through. As mentioned earlier in the post about governing the universities, the board is made up of Desantis donors, a spouse of an RNC leader, and other unqualified people.

But hey, OWN LIBS! Take over their private businesses because they are against your party's platform. I can only imagine there will be no outrage when California votes to make rules and external boards for business that don't agree with their philosophies.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by miked

The party of limited government has now voted to install a board to govern Disneyworld (not Disney) because they spoke out against a bill said party pushed through. As mentioned earlier in the post about governing the universities, the board is made up of Desantis donors, a spouse of an RNC leader, and other unqualified people.

But hey, OWN LIBS! Take over their private businesses because they are against your party's platform. I can only imagine there will be no outrage when California votes to make rules and external boards for business that don't agree with their philosophies.

It isn't as simple as that. I mean, don't get me wrong, I think DeSantis is a dick, and given a different composition of the Supreme Court, he might get smacked down for violation of the Equal Protection Clause.

But the Reedy Creek Improvement District has existed for decades, and it was basically the state going "yeah, no, we don't want to deal with this, we'll let you tax yourself and deal with your own infrastructure improvement needs."

What's going on HERE is DeSantis and FLGOP threw a fit over Disney's opposition to Don't Say Gay, and when they realized that a straight dissolution of RCID would leave Orange County on the hook for billions in bond debt, they went "never mind, let's just change how the district works."

So your point about toadies and donors etc is a valid one, but this isn't "taking over their private business." This is FLGOP changing what had been a special set of rules for essentially one company to a different set of rules as a punitive measure.

Which, again, probably not constitutional since it's effectively targeted at one company and they've been outspoken about WHY, even though they later went "well uh something something fairness maybe that's why we're doing it instead," but the current mix of the Supreme Court will ignore that, since it's the home team fucking with shit instead of the road team.

[Lathum]

The fact Disney isn’t fighting this tells you all you need to know about who it benefits. They could easily come lawsuits that would outlast DeSantis but they are choosing not to.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Lathum

The fact Disney isn’t fighting this tells you all you need to know about who it benefits. They could easily come lawsuits that would outlast DeSantis but they are choosing not to.

Honestly, I think they're looking at DeSantis' political aspirations and going "fucker'll be gone soon enough; this won't hamper our business significantly in the next two years, and it's cheaper to wait until he's out and then hope his successor is easier to deal with."

DeSantis is playing to a culture warrior crowd and isn't gonna be swayed by greased palms. Two years from now, the way Disney wields campaign contributions might end up undoing or at least blunting the fallout of the RCID revamp.

[NobodyHere]

[RainMaker]

Starting to think Fox might actually be fucked in this case. Check out his whole thread.

Media Matters has obtained a copy of the latest Dominion filing, featuring Rupert Murdoch's deposition (and some light redactions from the court).

I will be tweeting out snippets in this thread as I read through it.

— Matthew Gertz (@MattGertz) February 27, 2023

[Lathum]

There is a reason FOX News is banned is other countries.

we on the other hand show it on our military bases.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Lathum

There is a reason FOX News is banned is other countries.

we on the other hand show it on our military bases.

Unsurprising support for banning things. In any event, I’ve seen CNN on military bases, but Fox News programming is much more popular so to not show it on a federal compound would show a poorly executed bias. The fed laws and the military must remain inclusive.

[Dutch]

Speaking of inclusivity, how do any of these network news stations magically get 95% single-threaded bias in their personalities and journalists? Is it sketchy non-inclusive hiring practices or mandated opinion?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Unsurprising support for banning things. In any event, I’ve seen CNN on military bases, but Fox News programming is much more popular so to not show it on a federal compound would show a poorly executed bias. The fed laws and the military must remain inclusive.

So you think our military baes should be shown what has been proven propaganda?

And don't give me that shit about banning things. The list of things the right wants to boycott is far longer than the left, starting with fair elections and books.

[Lathum]

Dola- I'll also add it is downright equal parts comical and insane that a network that has shown every step of the way it puts profit over country should have any rights to be shown on military bases.

And don't give me the CNN whataboutism. We are WAY past the whole "both sides do it" nonsense with regards to cable news networks.

[flere-imsaho]

Fox News encouraging its adherents to start a boycott against major companies such as Amazon, BofA, United Airlines, Target, even Walmart: These 51 big businesses target conservatives. Here’s what you can do to stop them | Fox News

Why? Because they're too "woke".

Thank you, Rupert, for continuing to perpetuate a culture war you had a hand in starting for no obvious end other than to make you more money.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Speaking of inclusivity, how do any of these network news stations magically get 95% single-threaded bias in their personalities and journalists? Is it sketchy non-inclusive hiring practices or mandated opinion?

Why not both?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Speaking of inclusivity, how do any of these network news stations magically get 95% single-threaded bias in their personalities and journalists? Is it sketchy non-inclusive hiring practices or mandated opinion?

psstttt....


It's the money....

Carlson used to be on CNN.

My BIL met him at a banking function in 2016. Carlson told him Trump was a total moron who is unfit for the job.

They all have sold their souls for the almighty dollar. In Carlsons case I think it is also the power.

[JPhillips]

Nobody treats the conservative base with more disrespect than does the conservative elite. They aren't lying to liberals, they're lying to their supporters.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Nobody treats the conservative base with more disrespect than does the conservative elite. They aren't lying to liberals, they're lying to their supporters.

Howard Stern nailed it years ago

[Lathum]

He’s such a small man. The party is such a joke. Complaining about private companies deplatforming right wing voices while their dear leader actually tried to use the federal government to silence a late night host who hurt his feelings.


Trump White House Pressured Disney to Censor Jimmy Kimmel – Rolling Stone

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Howard Stern nailed it years ago

People around trump on J6 said the only thing he was really complaining about was how sloppy his supporters looked.

He'd rather surround himself with the coastal elites he complains about than his own supporters.

[Lathum]

Totally normal stuff.

Blaise Ingoglia bill would 'cancel' Democratic Party

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Totally normal stuff.

Blaise Ingoglia bill would 'cancel' Democratic Party

Your problem is that you are judging the GOP by what the majority of its voters and elected leaders want, say, and do.

Instead, you should mumble "inflation" three times and pretend that it is 1982.

[BYU 14]

The fact that people continue to support theatrical hacks like this, speaks volumes on how stupid we are as a country, scream about inflation and crime, then spend your time after elected playing mean girl revenge games.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Dola- I'll also add it is downright equal parts comical and insane that a network that has shown every step of the way it puts profit over country should have any rights to be shown on military bases.

And don't give me the CNN whataboutism. We are WAY past the whole "both sides do it" nonsense with regards to cable news networks.

So, in a perfect world, we get rid of Fox News and I guess Tucker Carlson and Hannity and Britt Hume go to CNN? Would they then be forced to follow the same rules as those personalities? I’m guessing they would have too.

As for military bases. You know who controls the TV’s? Some regular dude or gal with the remote control. Nobody mandates what is watched. Unless it’s in the lobby of a major command then it’s probably the Public Affairs office. In one such place there are two TV’s. One with Fox News and one with CNN. The military member sometimes changes the station when other visitors (particularly waiting rooms) ask. It’s crazy.

[flere-imsaho]

In a perfect world there are consequences media companies spreading blatant lies and misinformation. I know free speech and all that, but there's no way the Founders intended for this kind of behavior to be OK.

[SirFozzie]

I'm pretty sure that they would say the solution to bad speech is more speech.

[GrantDawg]

In a perfect world, professional political commentators wouldn't exist. Not because they were banned, but because people wouldn't watch their garbage. For-profit political discourse doesn't exist to improve people's lives or help people to be more informed. It exists to make money.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

In a perfect world there are consequences media companies spreading blatant lies and misinformation. I know free speech and all that, but there's no way the Founders intended for this kind of behavior to be OK.

Agreed. The point of the founders was for us to be informed, to allow us to be informed free from government oversight. I’m not sure when the news began to pick sides, maybe it’s always been that way, but they are getting better at dividing the facts into “juicy facts” and “let’s not air these facts” that clearly fit into one of two categories. Pro-Democratic Party and Pro-Republican Party. That’s it. So yes, the news on TV and social media is the Wild West of news information.

Take for example the “bombshell” at the Texas Border involving Haitians trying to cross the border.

Possible headlines.

“Thousands of Haitians attempt illegal crossing of the Rio Grande”
“Texas Rangers whip Haitian immigrants at the Rio Grande”

One major network went with the first option (Fox News). Every other network went with option 2.

The View took it a step further with, “Texas Rangers whipped Haitian immigrants like slaves” and that spread like wildfire on social media for a while. The ladies on The View were literally weeping on air about a return to slavery.

The White House condemned the Texas Rangers actions at the border.
The CBP boss was horrified.
Every major network (except Fox News obviously) slammed the Texas Rangers actions.
The View never corrected their comparison of Texas Rangers with Slavery.

The Photographer said it wasn’t a whip but horse reigns (to maneuver the horse).
Video shows no such whipping ever took place and clearly show the reigns of a horse.
Texas Rangers don’t have whips…

It was a rush to sensationalized judgment that no news channel corrected and I don’t know if the White House did either, but the damage was already done. The money already made. No investigation ever took place.

I believe one local news station and Fox News did expose Option 2 as a sensationalized hit piece (might be more but if you weren’t looking for a correction you probably never saw it).

So here we are. Fox News chairman takes the stand and admits to what we already know. Have any other network heads admitted to it? I’m sure Fox News will come up with something to increase the pain against CNN or MSNBC. Rinse and repeat.

[GrantDawg]

When TV news became a profit center, and then cable news took that quest for profit into a whole new level.

[SirFozzie]

Um, are we forgetting the "Yellow Journalism' got us into a shooting war? (the Spanish-American war)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Suddenly the thread takes a turn into ignoring the long history of the U.S. media.

There has never been an apolitical media here.

Not before the Revolution, not after the Revolution, and not at any time since the Revolution.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Agreed. The point of the founders was for us to be informed, to allow us to be informed free from government oversight. I’m not sure when the news began to pick sides, maybe it’s always been that way, but they are getting better at dividing the facts into “juicy facts” and “let’s not air these facts” that clearly fit into one of two categories. Pro-Democratic Party and Pro-Republican Party. That’s it. So yes, the news on TV and social media is the Wild West of news information.

Take for example the “bombshell” at the Texas Border involving Haitians trying to cross the border.

Possible headlines.

“Thousands of Haitians attempt illegal crossing of the Rio Grande”
“Texas Rangers whip Haitian immigrants at the Rio Grande”

One major network went with the first option (Fox News). Every other network went with option 2.

The View took it a step further with, “Texas Rangers whipped Haitian immigrants like slaves” and that spread like wildfire on social media for a while. The ladies on The View were literally weeping on air about a return to slavery.

The White House condemned the Texas Rangers actions at the border.
The CBP boss was horrified.
Every major network (except Fox News obviously) slammed the Texas Rangers actions.
The View never corrected their comparison of Texas Rangers with Slavery.

The Photographer said it wasn’t a whip but horse reigns (to maneuver the horse).
Video shows no such whipping ever took place and clearly show the reigns of a horse.
Texas Rangers don’t have whips…

It was a rush to sensationalized judgment that no news channel corrected and I don’t know if the White House did either, but the damage was already done. The money already made. No investigation ever took place.

I believe one local news station and Fox News did expose Option 2 as a sensationalized hit piece (might be more but if you weren’t looking for a correction you probably never saw it).

So here we are. Fox News chairman takes the stand and admits to what we already know. Have any other network heads admitted to it? I’m sure Fox News will come up with something to increase the pain against CNN or MSNBC. Rinse and repeat.

all fine and good except for the fact the Haitian immigrant incident happened, or at least was rooted in an event that took place. No rational person is ever going to argue cable news isn't bias (oddly enough except Fox News viewers because they are told the network is fair and balanced).

The problem with this latest revelation, the one that inspired my comment and your original reply, is that they are reporting things as facts, election integrity, etc..., when not only did it never happen, they KNEW it didn't happen and reported it anyways because they were afraid of losing viewers to competitors who would tell their viewers what hey want to hear, not what actually happened! Look at what happened when they called Arizona for Biden, their base and Trump went crazy.

They did this for months, knowing the damage it was doing to the country and they did not care. Murdoch literally said in his deposition it wasn't about red or blue, it was about the green FFS. If someone can't see how their reporting ripped the country apart and has had dire consequences (Kari Lake anyone?) they they are part of the problem.

There is no "all networks do this' crap when it comes to this. Any sane nation would view this as what it was and they would be removed from the airwaves. This should be the scandal of a lifetime.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Lathum

all fine and good except for the fact the Haitian immigrant incident happened.

You may need to clarify.

The news took an event (illegal border crossing) and changed the entire event to be an illegal whipping of black people by white men.

The news took an event (election) and changed the entire event to be a widespread conspiracy of voter fraud to sway an election.

Based on what we know, neither happened. They were both based loosely (fictionally?) on true events. Now, either are possible to happen in the future but there was no evidence of either when reported and the news ran with both at a full sprint.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Um, are we forgetting the "Yellow Journalism' got us into a shooting war? (the Spanish-American war)

Thank you.

And even that wasn't particularly more political than the era that preceded it (there was just more profit motive, rather than power motive, attached)

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Dutch

You may need to clarify.

The news took an event (illegal border crossing) and changed the entire event to be an illegal whipping of black people by white men.

The news took an event (election) and changed the entire event to be a widespread conspiracy of voter fraud to sway an election.

Based on what we know, neither happened. They were both based loosely (fictionally?) on true events. Now, either are possible to happen in the future but there was no evidence of either when reported and the news ran with both at a full sprint.

Way to cherry pick. The next thing I said was the Haitian immigrant story was at least rooted in reality. The videos and pics made it look like they were being whipped. Did cnn et al get it wrong in a rush to condemn. Yup. But comparing that to Fox News systematically and purposely painting a completely false narrative, that they knew was wrong m, and knew it would wreck democracy, for profit isn’t even in the same stratosphere. But sure, both sides.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Um, are we forgetting the "Yellow Journalism' got us into a shooting war? (the Spanish-American war)

The most prestigious award in journalism is named after one of the people involved in that. It's kind of crazy how people thought there has ever been integrity or apolitical journalism in this country.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

The fact that people continue to support theatrical hacks like this, speaks volumes on how stupid we are as a country, scream about inflation and crime, then spend your time after elected playing mean girl revenge games.

In fairness, they have no real policies. For real, what is their plan outside of theatrical stunts?

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Way to cherry pick. The next thing I said was the Haitian immigrant story was at least rooted in reality. The videos and pics made it look like they were being whipped. Did cnn et al get it wrong in a rush to condemn. Yup. But comparing that to Fox News systematically and purposely painting a completely false narrative, that they knew was wrong m, and knew it would wreck democracy, for profit isn’t even in the same stratosphere. But sure, both sides.

It quoted for brevity, but I understand how if I were a journalist or a lawyer that would be seen as taking it out of context. So I apologize for that.

As for Fox News and CNN, they are extremely well trained, experienced, and calculated in their presentation. It took me about five minutes to understand what CNN, et al, were doing and it was no mistake. They purposefully upset and angered people of color in order to get a reaction from their base audiences to cheer as a “gotcha!” win. It was disgusting to to see and I’m surprised you thought it merely “got it wrong” but what your ideological opponent did was “not even in the same stratosphere”. Did it bother you at all the racial wounds were ripped open for no ethical reason? Across multiple networks?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Dutch

It quoted for brevity, but I understand how if I were a journalist or a lawyer that would be seen as taking it out of context. So I apologize for that.

As for Fox News and CNN, they are extremely well trained, experienced, and calculated in their presentation. It took me about five minutes to understand what CNN, et al, were doing and it was no mistake. They purposefully upset and angered people of color in order to get a reaction from their base audiences to cheer as a “gotcha!” win. It was disgusting to to see and I’m surprised you thought it merely “got it wrong” but what your ideological opponent did was “not even in the same stratosphere”. Did it bother you at all the racial wounds were ripped open for no ethical reason? Across multiple networks?

Give me a break. That was a blip on the radar compared to what Fox did. When the border control files a multi billion dollar lawsuit, one that likely wins, against CNN then we can compare the two. Until then it is just you excusing bad behavior from FOX for profit.

[Lathum]

dola- Even if CNN fabricated the entire story using actors in a studio it wouldn't compare to what FOX News did.

Are you seriously excusing what they did under the guise of "everyone does it"

Do you honestly not see the severity of their actions and the generational damage it has caused?

[thesloppy]

Haitians are moving here in droves.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Lathum

dola- Even if CNN fabricated the entire story using actors in a studio it wouldn't compare to what FOX News did.

Are you seriously excusing what they did under the guise of "everyone does it"

Do you honestly not see the severity of their actions and the generational damage it has caused?

Something...something...both sides.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

In a perfect world there are consequences media companies spreading blatant lies and misinformation. I know free speech and all that, but there's no way the Founders intended for this kind of behavior to be OK.

I think it depends on what you mean by OK, but Jon is correct on this IMO. Lots of the founders used blatant lies and misinformation to get things done, including getting elected in the early days of the Repubic. I also think, based on what I know what was written by the best of them in their better moments, that their philosophy was more likely that a populace gullibe enough to be duped long-term by misinformation is one that is inadequate to the task of self-governance anyway. One might call the ability and willingness to sift through some of the noise as a prerequisite to civil liberty.

[sterlingice]

We should definitely not look warily at the party that wants to destroy public education and and privatize is solely for profit under the false guise of improving it.

SI

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I think it depends on what you mean by OK, but Jon is correct on this IMO. Lots of the founders used blatant lies and misinformation to get things done, including getting elected in the early days of the Repubic. I also think, based on what I know what was written by the best of them in their better moments, that their philosophy was more likely that a populace gullibe enough to be duped long-term by misinformation is one that is inadequate to the task of self-governance anyway. One might call the ability and willingness to sift through some of the noise as a prerequisite to civil liberty.

Honestly, I agree 100% with this. Partisan journalism existed in Colonial America, so it's not like the "news" was ever a bastion of neutrality. But that's not the point.

The Founders assumed that there would be a learned ruling class who would generally be in control of things. Remember that although the Constitution let the States determine who could vote, many if not most states initially restricted the franchise to white male property owners.

And originally the state legislatures elected U.S. Senators directly, to say nothing of the Electoral College setup.

So even from the start the U.S. was set up to be an oligarchy. Maybe it kinda/sorta worked back in the 18th century since you more-or-less had to be pretty well educated to be part of the ruling class/oligarchy back then, but clearly over time the lack of checks that were considered unnecessary if you had a bunch of relatively smart people running the show (again, arguably), now has us in a situation where demonstrated morons like Boebert and Jewish Space Lasers MTG are running the show.


Or, to put it another way, the Founders were A-OK using bullshit to sell stuff to the masses, but knew using bullshit to set actual policy wouldn't fly because a) everyone else at that table was smart enough to counter the bullshit and b) in the early years at least a lot of them knew each other anyway.

On point b, up to about 30 years ago, Reps & Senators would routinely spend multiple weeks at a time in Washington DC (unless they lived really close) because flights were generally expensive and the need to fundraise constantly (and thus be back in district/state) wasn't as pressing. Nowadays they're in town Tue-Thu, half of which they spend making calls, and then back home fundraising over the weekend (or doing things like supporting the local/state party, etc...).

What this means is that even 30 years ago there was more bipartisanship due to the simple fact that a lot of these politicians actually were forced to spend time together and to talk to each other and understand things. It's a lot easier to talk about a few bills in succession with a small group of colleagues and agree, verbally, on some puts-and-takes across those few bills if you're interacting every day in person. That's all gone, and boy are we paying the price for it now.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

We should definitely not look warily at the party that wants to destroy public education and and privatize is solely for profit under the false guise of improving it.

As with most everything in the GOP, the people who want to make money off of something are using the True Believers to get it done. In this case the True Believers fall into two camps: those who believe that public education will always teach the wrong stuff and want things like religious indoctrination in the curriculum, and those who believe that certain people just don't deserve to be educated.

[cuervo72]

They probably actually wrote the bills themselves, too.

[bhlloy]

Sounds like we are dangerously close to saying maybe slavishly adhering to a document written 225 years ago by men who were probably just as flawed and certainly far more scientifically and socially unenlightened than anyone born in the last 50 years is a bad idea?

[Lathum]

Been in western Colorado for 10 minutes and I’ve already seen a huge thisnis Boebert country sign in the side of a house. I’ll never understand it.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

As with most everything in the GOP, the people who want to make money off of something are using the True Believers to get it done. In this case the True Believers fall into two camps: those who believe that public education will always teach the wrong stuff and want things like religious indoctrination in the curriculum, and those who believe that certain people just don't deserve to be educated.

*see also don't need to be educated; just trained in a trade.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

*see also don't need to be educated; just trained in a trade.

In grade school?

SI