Mixed Martial Arts Thread (UFC and others)

[Chief Rum]

That UFC lineup in Mexico was shit, for the most part. Not saying you're wrong about your general point, but it was not a strong card, especially after Cain got hurt and was bumped for Hunt.

[PilotMan]

Maybe he can get Herschel Walker to come back? Or perhaps that evil little gnome, (Scott) Coker (Bellator and former Strikeforce CEO) will convince him to go again. God I hope not.

[BishopMVP]

I got in a dumb drunk argument and bet 5/1 that Jones will win Jan 3rd... I know that's too much, but does anyone think Cormier will actually win?

[Suicane75]

I certainly do.

[BYU 14]

I think he has a good shot too, Jones will have to keep it standing.

[PilotMan]

Yes, Cormier certainly has the skill set to make things hard on Jones. Coming down from Heavyweight he hits hard, and while his speed advantage that he had higher up wont be there his grappling, body type and skill set more than make up for it.

Cormier will get torn to shreds if he ends up outside and not able to close. Jones is going to keep going backward in the fight and try and pick him off with hard counters. But Jones kickboxing will be impacted by Cormier's takedowns. I think Cormier can keep Jones on his back, and I don't think Jones will mind fighting off of it. If Cormier can't get inside there won't be a way for him to win. I hope his conditioning is good enough to take it to the championship rounds.

It's still the fight I'm most interested in right now. To answer you, yeah, you gave up a lot at 5-1. I could see Jones going off closer to -150. A quick google search nets the current odds for Jones at -160, so I'm pretty damn close.

[BYU 14]

Good analysis and I will say that for his appearance, Cormier's stamina has surprised me, he fights very efficiently and doesn't waster a lot of motion. I can see Jones trying to land something explosive early, and if Cormier weathers it and can take Jones down it could be a long night for the champ for sure.

[PilotMan]

I doubt I'll be able to watch the fights tonight, but it's probably the most interested I've been in a main event in over a year.

I'm shocked to see Nate Marquardt on the main card.

The flyweight matchup should be a preliminary.

The co-main between Cerrone and Jury has massive potential.

The Lombard fight should be higher because I know they are looking at him as a contender, but he hasn't won any fans with his boring fights.

The rest of these fights and fighters have no popularity. No push. No identity. Unless you are totally hardcore (I probably am) there's little to be excited about. So many of these guys should be fighting on some UFC minor circuit for the exposure.

Still hoping Cormier takes this. It's not like he hasn't been in with some very good fighters and beaten them. He has wins over Bigfoot Silva, Josh Barnett, Frank Mir, Roy Nelson and Dan Henderson.

The size of Jones shouldn't be intimidating to him. The biggest issue will be the speed and length of Jones. The other, bigger guys he fought he had big speed advantages over. That won't be the case tonight. I do think he'll have the ground and strength advantage though. We'll know tomorrow morning.

[Toddzilla]

Been kind of a snoozer so far. Horiguchi looked great, so quick, but even that match was hard to pay attention to.

Watching Marquard get beat up should be fun, tho.

[CU Tiger]

Boring card two matches to go.

Hope Bones saves it.

[PilotMan]

God help anyone who paid for this.

[cartman]

I heart live streams from Europe

[Toddzilla]

holy crap this PPV is putrid so far

[Toddzilla]

I'd have liked that to go on for one more minute

[PilotMan]

yep, awful. Kind of a statement for the last year imo. This was supposed to be one of the biggest cards too.

[PilotMan]

Jones looked like he was starting to breathe a little deeper by the end of that round.

[Toddzilla]

ugh - feed just crashed

[Toddzilla]

in retrospect, i wish it crashed 3 hours ago

[PilotMan]

yeah, this one started good but is finishing with a thud.

[bhlloy]

That might be the last time I give the UFC my money. Absolute joke of a card not saved by the main event

[saldana]

That was such a disappointing fight..in fact, the whole card except for cerrone and jury was pretty awful..Jones looked gassed after the midway point of the 2nd round, and I honestly thought the 3rd could have gone to DC. The whole thing was a major let down for me, and I dragged my GF and her son to a pub to with me so I could watch it...almost feel like I need to apologize for wasting their night

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

That might be the last time I give the UFC my money. Absolute joke of a card not saved by the main event

Buffalo Wild Wings has all the fights here.
So we go camp out there for a few hours. Drink beer. Eat wings and apps and spend $50-60...same we'd spend on the PPV and get free food to boot otherwise Im not sure Id be buying anymore.

[molson]

Cowboy Cerrone is stepping in to fight Benson Henderson on 15 days rest in Boston. (and that'll be 6 fights in 365 days). This was after his twitter gimmick this week where he said he was going to camp out at the UFC Vegas offices until they booked his next fight (and he posted photos of himself hanging out in offices there)

And here is probably the highlight of UFC 182, Cerrone kicking Jury at the end of their fight, Indiana Jones-style.

Cowboy Cerrone Whipping Indiana Jones Style - YouTube

UFC needs about 10-20 more guys like this.

[molson]

UFC light heavyweight champion Jon Jones enters drug treatment facility - ESPN

Apparently the Nevada Commission knew about this for at least a month before the Cormier fight, but sat on it because cocaine isn't banned out-of-competition. So it looks like the win over Cormier will not be overturned. Not sure why they test for cocaine then.

[PilotMan]

damn. drugs suck.

[cartman]

The gram for gram MMA champion

[Chief Rum]

So that's how he makes weight!

[EagleFan]

That sucked. Was hoping Siver would knock that punk out.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

That sucked. Was hoping Siver would knock that punk out.

He might be a little (okay way way) over the top, but McGregor is fun AND good. He's like a Diaz brother but he backs his mouth up by actually fighting his ass off.

Aldo-McGregor is gonna be a lot of fun!

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

He might be a little (okay way way) over the top, but McGregor is fun AND good. He's like a Diaz brother but he backs his mouth up by actually fighting his ass off.

Aldo-McGregor is gonna be a lot of fun!

That was bush league WWE crap he pulled at the end of the fight, jumping out of the cage to go after Aldo. Though I love that Aldo didn't even blink when he did it and just smiled.

[Galaril]

Henderson got robbed with a significant strike difference of 87-56 over Cowboy. I love that McGregor backs up all the braggociousneess and think he handles Aldo since Aldo is more a stand up up game guy.

[CU Tiger]

Most interesting part of the night was Silva post match for me.

The raw emotion.
Then saying his kids beg him not to fight.

Good to see Spider back in the ring. Not sure the Spider I seen tonight wants any part of Wiedman, and that saddens me to think that Silva may not be on par with any contemporary...but its been a great run.

Guess Ill get up for Rousey Zangano... and then...not sure.

[bhlloy]

Silva looks like he's lost a lot of explosiveness. Based on that he's not getting back to the level of the elite fighters in the division.

Diaz brothers have a pretty good gig going talking shit and then losing and coming back for more. They are the heels of the UFC and make a pretty penny taking fights away from other guys doing it

[kingfc22]

Seems like the UFC has a bit of a drug problem on their hands. First Jones and now Silva, albeit different drugs.

[PilotMan]

Ugh, I actually didn't even watch this last PPV. Diaz getting popped for weed seems like a laughable bust, but you know that Silva's might just cause him to just decide to hang it up if he's looking at any kind of suspension.

[molson]

Interesting that the commission doesn't notify the UFC and lets a guy fight after he tests positive for steroids. Maybe that's just the understanding between the parties, its better for all involved to deal with it afterwards. UFC doesn't have to scrap a fight, the commission can get its fine paid from the fighter's purse. I get it for cocaine, since that's in theory not a performance enhancer, but the steroid thing creates a real risk for the drug user's opponent, you would think

[saldana]

i honestly always feel a bit bad for guys trying to come back from injuries, especially someone 39 years old that everyone has huge expectations for...trying to get the physical strength and the skills back from the kind of injury silva went through would be brutal...it doesnt surprise me that he cheated...that doesnt mean it doesnt disappoint me..it just doesnt surprise me

[PilotMan]

and really that's the origin of TRT and the explosion of old guys being able to hang on in MMA.

[PilotMan]

I guess Gleison Tibau is stepping in to face Tony Ferguson at 184. I'm actually excited about this fight. Tibau has been a hard, hard fight for the last couple of years now and Ferguson, while being injured a lot, is still massively talented and rising.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by molson

I get it for cocaine, since that's in theory not a performance enhancer, but the steroid thing creates a real risk for the drug user's opponent, you would think

I would actually argue the converse here.

With Steroids the result is in the bag by match time. IF a cycle were timed right you could get all the benefits and still test clean.

On the other hand with coce, its only detectable for 72 hours. Plus it is an immediate stimulant and nerve suppressor. It would have an affect on that fight.

[molson]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I would actually argue the converse here.

With Steroids the result is in the bag by match time. IF a cycle were timed right you could get all the benefits and still test clean.

On the other hand with coce, its only detectable for 72 hours. Plus it is an immediate stimulant and nerve suppressor. It would have an affect on that fight.

If cocaine is used in competition, definitely. Same with marijuana, potentially (I would assume there would be some advantage when it comes to pain tolerance). But Jones testified positive for cocaine a month or two before his fight. If he passed the post-fight test, then that wasn't going to create a advantage, except to the extent cocaine helps you train. It's more problematic to let a guy fight after you know he got to his weight and trained with roids.

[PilotMan]

Oh Scott Coker how I hate you, let me count the ways.......


......and by hate, I genuinely mean hate. You little fucking gnome.

[Suicane75]

Not down for Shamrock Vs Slice? I'm calling it right now, someone breaks a hip in that fight.

[PilotMan]

Yeah, that and all the idea that he can make a big deal in the promotion out of guys who couldn't make it in the UFC, or trying to make a big deal out of guys like King Mo who has no desire to fight for a living. Yeah Bellator wasn't growing or bringing in numbers, the tournament was getting a little stale with talent dropping off, but they have still found some rising stars. At least for that promotion. What they've got now is Strikeforce 2.0 and Coker fucked that up good so it's only a matter of time.

[molson]

When the UFC has over 500 guys under contract competitors need to find people that the UFC couldn't possibly want AND will draw ratings. I don't mind a modern PRIDE freak-show promotion at all. The only question about this Shamrock/Slice fight (if it actually happens) is whether it will be the #1 watched Bellator show of all time or #2 (if it can't beat out Ortiz/Bonnar, which did run against a UFC PPV.).

[PilotMan]

One should argue that the UFC needs to split the promotion and go back to a 2 tier organization. It would thicken the talent pool and make the events more meaningful while building fighters under the UFC banner.

I have no faith in Coker to be able to run a promotion. I understand that the biggest slap in the face of Bellator was Dana pissing all over Ben Askren and telling him to go fight in One or WSOF to get some better experience. I some of that was just Dana and Askren heat and some of it was legit, but either way it doesn't mean much for the company's stature. Funny thought that the good fighters who have come over and made an impact get no mention of coming from Bellator ever.

And yeah, it's sad that Bonnar/Ortiz and all of it's stupid pro wrestling schtick lead up brought the house down. It shows people want to see names and don't really give a shit about what the fights actually mean. Emanual fucking Newton is the 205 champ. Emanual. Newton. And I LIKE Newton, cause he is about the most journeyman fighter you could ever have in your organization and to see him get some career recognition is great.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by molson

When the UFC has over 500 guys under contract competitors need to find people that the UFC couldn't possibly want AND will draw ratings.

Towards the end there it seemed like Rebney was focusing on discovering dudes in Eastern Europe, as half the roster was seemingly Russian, and I thought that was more entertaining than watching the has-beens that Coker keeps pulling out. I liked the tournament format too, so whaddo I know.

It seems like a bad decision from the TNA Wrestling school of thinking to try and draw UFC viewers with fighters that flamed out of the UFC five years ago. Sure, we're all familiar with their names. We're also familiar with the fact that they suck. On the other hand, it's probably true that a trainwreck with familiar names will still draw more viewers than potentially quality third-tier fighters that nobody knows...several sources make those kind of fights available, whereas I suppose Bellator is now the only place to see these kind of shitshows.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

One should argue that the UFC needs to split the promotion and go back to a 2 tier organization. It would thicken the talent pool and make the events more meaningful while building fighters under the UFC banner.

That's my feeling as well. The UFC could use a WEC now more than ever. They could even setup some kinda corny promotion/regulation system like European soccer...lose too many in a row, and down to the depths with ye, defend your WEC title a time or two and you're in the UFC!

[molson]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Towards the end there it seemed like Rebney was focusing on discovering dudes in Eastern Europe, as half the roster was seemingly Russian, and I thought that was more entertaining than watching the has-beens that Coker keeps pulling out. I liked the tournament format too, so whaddo I know.

It seems like a bad decision from the TNA Wrestling school of thinking to try and draw UFC viewers with fighters that flamed out of the UFC five years ago. Sure, we're all familiar with their names. We're also familiar with the fact that they suck. On the other hand, it's probably true that a trainwreck with familiar names will still draw more viewers than potentially quality third-tier fighters that nobody knows...several sources make those kind of fights available, whereas I suppose Bellator is now the only place to see these kind of shitshows.

I loved Strikeforce when it was all the things UFC wasn't at the time - it had freak show fights, a better heavyweight division for a while, and women. UFC took all the heavyweights and the women, and after the rating Ortiz and Bonnar got, they're even dipping their toe in the freak show game by signing CM Punk.

I agree that Bellator shouldn't rely TOO much on UFC wash-outs, but I think it makes perfect sense to at least dabble in them occasionally. Ideally, they'll find a couple of other things UFC is lacking too. (And not just guys who are essentially banned from the UFC like Paul Daley). The tournament format had the potential to be that, but I'm not sure it's quite the same when it's not in one night.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Not down for Shamrock Vs Slice? I'm calling it right now, someone breaks a hip in that fight.

They'll be wearing Lifeline Medical Alert bracelets and ads on their shorts.