'Products of their environment' .. ?

[DougW]

Of course I'm talking about kids, and just wondering what some folks think about it. Is there some predetermined destiny for people, and how they will 'turn out' ? Is a persons' personality formed in the womb by DNA, etc ? Will their parents/environment determine how one 'turns out' ? A mix of all ?

Whatcha think ?

I think I lean toward children being products of good/bad parenting and their environment. Maybe, I feel that way, because I'd like to think it actually makes a difference how I raise my own children haha.

What led me to the question, and a pretty good example/argument for destiny ...

I have a couple cousins (brothers, both early 40s, and 2 years apart). They couldn't be further opposites of each other. One is a known crack addict, and currently in prison for armed robbery - while his older brother is a Dr. (Pediatrician). He's married to a lawyer, big house, white picket fence, 3 kids, blah blah.

They were raised in the same house/neighborhood, by the same parents for the duration of their childhood/teen years. And, only 2 years apart.

I've often wondered what goes on in my Uncles head when he thinks of the two of them - but, we're not really that close, and it never "feels" right to ask.

[molson]

I think there's so much more chaos/randomness than any of us would like to acknowledge.

The Cosby Show actually explained all this (starting at about :33) (I don't know why I remembered this or how I found it so quickly....)



Edit: Actually, now that I've watched it, it didn't explain shit....Bill Cosby, who usually has an answer to everything, just says, "I don't know." Sorry. I remembered more wisdom.

[heybrad]

I don't know if Momma was right or if, if it's Lieutenant Dan. I don't know if we each have a destiny, or if we're all just floating around accidental-like on a breeze, but I, I think maybe it's both. Maybe both is happening at the same time.

[Rizon]

Ah, the old Nature vs Nurture thing.

I'd say it's about 33%/67%

[SportsDino]

More parenting than anything, you can have everything genetically and still be the scummiest degenerate that ever existed... or you can be all thumbs and thoroughly of average intelligence and become one of the most important people who ever lived.

Unfortunately even parenting can only set conditions, just like genetics, ultimately a person's fate will be in their own hands at some point, and short of a god-like machine that can understand every factor at play, no one can truly know what way that fate will turn. It could be that the successful man who always did everything right will fail at the biggest test he ever faced (perhaps for the very reason that he ALWAYS got every thing right in the past as much as any evil that could possibly be the excuse), and that the person who had every bad roll of the dice you could think of turns out to have the mettle of a hero... maybe at the same time he's a hardened villain.

To assume that all of this can be programmed at birth, or even within 18 years, is somewhat ignorant. Just take some decision you made recently and try to count everything that truly went into it, even a snap judgment is likely based on years of experiences that go into the one or two key reasons you jump one way or the other.

As for nature, for some people it pretty much 99% determines their life, they die young, they are severely retarded, they are physically attached to someone who has the only internal organs and they will both die by the time they are a few years old unless one goes...

[rowech]

Having taught high school for 13 years I've met many parents through conferences, open houses, phone calls, emails, etc. I would say 98% of the time the kid's parents are exactly what I would expect whether it be good, bad, or somewhere in between. Every once in a great while one will surprise me and usually it's a bad kid from good parents and not a good kid from bad parents.

I will also say that I believe much of the problem in most cases is the work is not done when the kid is 2, 3, 4, or 5 years old. Parents who come to me with how to motivate their 16 year old kid crack me up. It's way too late for you to change the kid now.

I'll also say that too often I believe it's parents who try and rationalize with their kids when the kids are young. Kids learn they can push, bargain, etc. and eventually reach a compromise instead of simply being SOL.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I think, as with all things that it is a combination of factors that determines who we become. Having damn good parents can really help make things a hell of a lot more likely that there will turn out to be a decent human being out there though.

[Marc Vaughan]

Having decent parents can help, having a good environment can help - but ultimately everyone has to take responsibility for their decisions and actions in the long run ... for right or wrong.

PS - Failure of people to do that imho causes a lot of the disaster cases you see in society, a large proportion of people in bad situations are those who complain about being in them without actually taking responsibility and trying to improve their lot.

[I. J. Reilly]

I think the question is at what age you can hold people responsible for their actions though. I don’t think it’s fair to look at a 16 year old drop out and say “well they made the choice, they have to live with the consequences.” I don’t remember the saying; something about kids don’t drop out in high school, they drop out in middle school and then hang out for a few years before they make it official. So the decision was made at 12 or 13; and for me at least every decision I made at that age was pretty dependant on the adults around me. Bad adults = bad decisions.

As to the OP, once substance abuse enters the picture all bets are off.

[spleen1015]

I think DNA has to play a part in it. My parents had 4 kids. As kids and adults, the 4 of us couldn't be any more different.

[Marmel]

I was just discussing this the other day with somebody. I have a 3 year old and a 1 year old that are polar opposites in everything they do, think and say. Seriously, there is not a single thing similar about them, other than the way they look. I always thought I would be able to shape them and mold them into the perfect little people that I want them to be, but it didn't take long to find out that is completely untrue.

Sure, I can teach them manners, educate them and love them, etc... but their personalities? I have no effect whatsoever on them.

So I guess I feel I can point them in the right direction and give them the tools to be great, successful, happy people, but ultimately it is up to them, and I can see that even at their young ages.

I would say 80% nature, 20% nurture if I had to give it a guess. But that 20% is pretty disproportionately important because without it I think it limits their options, if that makes any sense.