Compton-Baltimore trade (1969)

[ekcut]

Compton sends thier 1st through 5th round picks, plus C John Ford (AA) and LF Albert Manuel to Baltimore for 2B Ben Harris.

[Young Drachma]

Compton trades:
1st round pick
2nd round pick
3rd round pick
4th round pick
5th round pick
C John Ford (AA)
LF Albert Manuel (SS-A)

to Baltimore for:

2B Ben Harris

Confirmed.

[Chief Rum]

It's probably my hang up, but I have to admit, seeing deals like this make me want to quit the league.

[muns]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

It's probably my hang up, but I have to admit, seeing deals like this make me want to quit the league.

All the draft picks????

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by muns

All the draft picks????

That's a big part of it. Also, a lot of the same stuff I was talking about with you and the Jones deal. It's the kind of thing I see owners resort to when they won't pony up actual quality for quality, and it sucks to see other owners reward them for it.

Plus, DC has already said he's leaving this team. So basically he just took a crap on the new owner and what that owner will have in place when he joins up.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

That's a big part of it. Also, a lot of the same stuff I was talking about with you and the Jones deal. It's the kind of thing I see owners resort to when they won't pony up actual quality for quality, and it sucks to see other owners reward them for it.

Plus, DC has already said he's leaving this team. So basically he just took a crap on the new owner and what that owner will have in place when he joins up.

I will rescind the trade. I didn't plan to leave this morning. But I am now.

[ekcut]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

It's probably my hang up, but I have to admit, seeing deals like this make me want to quit the league.

WTF...you unhappy about something...whoda thunk it?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I will rescind the trade. I didn't plan to leave this morning. But I am now.

Don't do it on my account. If the new owner is down for it, leave it in place.

[ekcut]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I will rescind the trade. I didn't plan to leave this morning. But I am now.

ACK!!! Nooo....rescind the trade if you wish (but I think it is a good deal for both of us) but don't give up the team...

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ekcut

WTF...you unhappy about something...whoda thunk it?

Poor baby. Sorry I don't sugar coat everything for ya, or tell ya everything's all hunky dory.

[ekcut]

Just make up your mind what you are unhappy about...You bitched about the deal where I sent Williams to him for prospects and picks because I didn't shop around enough (aka..to you) and now you bitch because I give up Harris to him for picks and prospects because he is running his team into the ground.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ekcut

Just make up your mind what you are unhappy about...You bitched about the deal where I sent Williams to him for prospects and picks because I didn't shop around enough (aka..to you) and now you bitch because I give up Harris to him for picks and prospects because he is running his team into the ground.

Seems to me I am pretty clear on what makes me unhappy. What more do you want?

Outside of your rainbow, happy music world, it's possible to be unhappy about more than one thing.

I bitched at you about Williams because, yes, you did a poor job as a GM, and should have contacted me.

My complaint on the Harris deal is all about what I think is best for the league. Opinions vary, of course, which is why I offer that it's probably just me.

[Young Drachma]

To comment on this cancelled trade tho:

The premise of this deal was sound. Compton needs a second baseman. I had a converted left fielder playing at shortstop and our second baseman was a guy who was well past his prime. For a team that came within a run of winning the FOOL Classic, I didn't really see the need to implode, as much as get a few pieces to the puzzle to help bolster what was already working.

This trade was part of that. Sure, it was trading picks, but...I knew that Harris would be in demand, I overpay on almost all my deals, but I do it on purpose. I do it to get the guys I want. It's a strategy and it's worked for me.

[Alan T]

I was actually hoping this trade would also have a poll go up for it like others had so I could put my comments there. I don't think I want to comment on this trade now though as there seems to be alot of strong emotions going along with it too.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I was actually hoping this trade would also have a poll go up for it like others had so I could put my comments there. I don't think I want to comment on this trade now though as there seems to be alot of strong emotions going along with it too.

Now that the trade hasn't gone through, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

[muns]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

That's a big part of it. Also, a lot of the same stuff I was talking about with you and the Jones deal. It's the kind of thing I see owners resort to when they won't pony up actual quality for quality, and it sucks to see other owners reward them for it.

Plus, DC has already said he's leaving this team. So basically he just took a crap on the new owner and what that owner will have in place when he joins up.

ill be honest, this is kinda shitty...... Baltimore asked for that deal DC just didnt pull it out of his ass, so your issue should be with the guy that asked for draft picks. If guys want that type of deal im not sure what your deal is. Its fair, thats what he wanted, asked for, and got..... Shit like this happens all the time in "real" life where people hate deals, but talking about leaving the league over what amounts to nothing is petty bull shit and sounds like well you know......

I love the fact that you look out for the league, i love the fact that your a great guy, i love the fact that your a good GM, i love the fact that your in my division, i love the fact that we are finally in the same sim league again and I have lots of respect for you (that goes back at least 10 years for me when i was still a kid on some internet message board listening to what you had to say about all kinds of stuff) but come on Chief let some shit go. All kinds of deals are bad and what not, but give it a few years before popping off

One last thing

The Jones deal im very prepared to call even if not in favor or chicago, as the 1b guy made the all star team this past year and has been way more productive than Jones has for the past 3 years... So i think you were wrong on that one........

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Now that the trade hasn't gone through, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

I felt that you overvalued Harris, that he is an older player signed for a ton of money for many many years of which I can only imagine some of them will be like an albatross for the team that owns him then. I also think you overvalue the demand for him from the league as I've been trying to trade a pretty decent 2B for two years now (whom is younger, cheaper and hit .345 this past season), and have only had 2 teams in 2 years talk about him and as of yet not really give up a solid deal for him.

I didn't look at the quality of the players that you had in the deal as well and don't have the game in front of me to do so right at this second, and I fully understand your draft picks are just like mine from the past few years meaning most of them aren't worth a ton... but either way it would be very tough for me to swallow that salary down the road giving up alot for it. I think to give a full analysis of the trade I would need to look at the players that you offered as well, but my take was that you were sacrificing the future of your team for this year and possibly next year as your last chance to win it all. (not sacrificing due to giving up fairly worthless draft picks, but sacrificing because you would then be salary cap impared for years)

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by muns

ill be honest, this is kinda shitty...... Baltimore asked for that deal DC just didnt pull it out of his ass, so your issue should be with the guy that asked for draft picks. If guys want that type of deal im not sure what your deal is. Its fair, thats what he wanted, asked for, and got..... Shit like this happens all the time in "real" life where people hate deals, but talking about leaving the league over what amounts to nothing is petty bull shit and sounds like well you know......

I love the fact that you look out for the league, i love the fact that your a great guy, i love the fact that your a good GM, i love the fact that your in my division, i love the fact that we are finally in the same sim league again and I have lots of respect for you (that goes back at least 10 years for me when i was still a kid on some internet message board listening to what you had to say about all kinds of stuff) but come on Chief let some shit go. All kinds of deals are bad and what not, but give it a few years before popping off

One last thing

The Jones deal im very prepared to call even if not in favor or chicago, as the 1b guy made the all star team this past year and has been way more productive than Jones has for the past 3 years... So i think you were wrong on that one........

Fair enough, muns. I wasn't putting this all at DC's feet either. I am well aware the Baltimore owner asked for this deal.

Just because you get two like minds who agree on the deal, doesn't mean it's automatically a good deal, or that all deals should be let go, just because you have two consenting owners.

But maybe it is best for me to leave the league. I'm not one to keep quiet. I have opinions, and I share them. I always have, and if people don't like it, bad news, I'm not likely to change.

I have no problem with people judging me, so judge away. I can take it. But if I am around, I will judge, too. So if that's bad for the league, then I will do what's best for the league as well, and I'll just leave.

And I'm not just saying that for effect or like a "take your ball and go home" thing. This is straight no bitterness. If it's better for harmony in the league that people don't have to listen to my opinions, then I am perfectly fine stepping away and observing from afar and letting things go as they may.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I felt that you overvalued Harris, that he is an older player signed for a ton of money for many many years of which I can only imagine some of them will be like an albatross for the team that owns him then. I also think you overvalue the demand for him from the league as I've been trying to trade a pretty decent 2B for two years now (whom is younger, cheaper and hit .345 this past season), and have only had 2 teams in 2 years talk about him and as of yet not really give up a solid deal for him.

I didn't look at the quality of the players that you had in the deal as well and don't have the game in front of me to do so right at this second, and I fully understand your draft picks are just like mine from the past few years meaning most of them aren't worth a ton... but either way it would be very tough for me to swallow that salary down the road giving up alot for it. I think to give a full analysis of the trade I would need to look at the players that you offered as well, but my take was that you were sacrificing the future of your team for this year and possibly next year as your last chance to win it all. (not sacrificing due to giving up fairly worthless draft picks, but sacrificing because you would then be salary cap impared for years)

Very good analysis, I think. I tend to favor the "win now" over the later. Especially on a team as close as mine. I probably overvalued, but the draft picks aren't as important to a team like mine (like you said..) and so, it was really about the players, who in my mind would likely never play for me. I have a ton of young catchers, so he's expendable and the outfield kid was fine, but again, I don't really have a need for one right now.

My team isn't as old as some of the other contenders out there. They could still be good with some moving parts for the next 3-5 years. Maybe longer, even. I stumbled into a pretty good core over the past few years and so, as long as guys developed and kept holding up their end of the bargain, I think that it was a calculated risk, but one was I was comfortable with taking.

And I've demonstrated in the past, that I don't mind eating the back end of a contract if I can win with the player now. So it's really just a philosophical decision, but I do tend -- in all of my online leagues -- to be a really bad reader of the general market climate.

I just prefer to get "my guy" than to not. So it doesn't matter to me.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Fair enough, muns. I wasn't putting this all at DC's feet either. I am well aware the Baltimore owner asked for this deal.

Just because you get two like minds who agree on the deal, doesn't mean it's automatically a good deal, or that all deals should be let go, just because you have two consenting owners.

But maybe it is best for me to leave the league. I'm not one to keep quiet. I have opinions, and I share them. I always have, and if people don't like it, bad news, I'm not likely to change.

I have no problem with people judging me, so judge away. I can take it. But if I am around, I will judge, too. So if that's bad for the league, then I will do what's best for the league as well, and I'll just leave.

And I'm not just saying that for effect or like a "take your ball and go home" thing. This is straight no bitterness. If it's better for harmony in the league that people don't have to listen to my opinions, then I am perfectly fine stepping away and observing from afar and letting things go as they may.

Opinions mean people care. I'd prefer we all have opinions, than to not. I think we can all handle that. No need to for anyone to take their toys to another sandbox.

[Alan T]

Ok, I decided to load up the game as I hate speaking in certainties on something that I am not 100% certain on. Now that I have loaded it up, Harris's contract isn't as bad as I remembered it, but still paying almost $10 mil for a player who will eventually be 34-35ish is a bit scary considering we aren't sure of the player development just yet. But it wasn't as huge of a contract as I originally remembered it being for whatever reason was thinking it was like a 12-13million deal for some reason per year.

That said though, I still think Harris is one of those players that has much better ratings than they actually perform, Harris's ratings are great, but his offensive numbers have only been average (slightly above average for a 2B).

As for who you gave up, Ford is an ok catching prospect, but those seem to be fairly easy to get (actual major league ready catchers are a different story from catcher prospects though), but your other LF manuel looks like he is the best player in the deal.

In the end, it is a bit less of an edge in my mind for Baltimore, but I still think you paid high and I also wonder if it is unfair to Baltimore for you to rescend the trade though. He won out in this deal, but he did propose it and it was accepted.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Opinions mean people care. I'd prefer we all have opinions, than to not. I think we can all handle that. No need to for anyone to take their toys to another sandbox.

Heh, I got no problem staying the sandbox. I guess the question is if others have a problem being in the sandbox with me. And if that's the case, IMO, it's better for the league if I leave the sandbox and let the others enjoy the league more, if that's their feeling on it. I would rather let the league go on with a happy membership, but not be a part of it, then to be part of it, but have half the membership not happy I share my opinions and let it detract from their league experience.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Fair enough, muns. I wasn't putting this all at DC's feet either. I am well aware the Baltimore owner asked for this deal.

Just because you get two like minds who agree on the deal, doesn't mean it's automatically a good deal, or that all deals should be let go, just because you have two consenting owners.

But maybe it is best for me to leave the league. I'm not one to keep quiet. I have opinions, and I share them. I always have, and if people don't like it, bad news, I'm not likely to change.

I have no problem with people judging me, so judge away. I can take it. But if I am around, I will judge, too. So if that's bad for the league, then I will do what's best for the league as well, and I'll just leave.

And I'm not just saying that for effect or like a "take your ball and go home" thing. This is straight no bitterness. If it's better for harmony in the league that people don't have to listen to my opinions, then I am perfectly fine stepping away and observing from afar and letting things go as they may.

I think you should stay/hope you would stay. Everyone doesn't have to agree on everything and I'm sure I disagree with alot of people in the league on many things. I think the difference of opinion on things can be a good thing as long as the discussion around it can be had constructively. I think alot of you as a person and a player and think the comments you bring up are good to talk about.

[Young Drachma]

You're an active owner. I want active owners. Even if they're whiny sometimes.

It's not a big deal. Besides, tempers flairing is just another way to create rivalries. It's all good.

[ekcut]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Heh, I got no problem staying the sandbox. I guess the question is if others have a problem being in the sandbox with me. And if that's the case, IMO, it's better for the league if I leave the sandbox and let the others enjoy the league more, if that's their feeling on it. I would rather let the league go on with a happy membership, but not be a part of it, then to be part of it, but have half the membership not happy I share my opinions and let it detract from their league experience.

Stay...without a doubt.

I have no doubt you are acting with the league in mind...every league needs 20 guys like that

[muns]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Fair enough, muns. I wasn't putting this all at DC's feet either. I am well aware the Baltimore owner asked for this deal.

Just because you get two like minds who agree on the deal, doesn't mean it's automatically a good deal, or that all deals should be let go, just because you have two consenting owners.

But maybe it is best for me to leave the league. I'm not one to keep quiet. I have opinions, and I share them. I always have, and if people don't like it, bad news, I'm not likely to change.

I have no problem with people judging me, so judge away. I can take it. But if I am around, I will judge, too. So if that's bad for the league, then I will do what's best for the league as well, and I'll just leave.

And I'm not just saying that for effect or like a "take your ball and go home" thing. This is straight no bitterness. If it's better for harmony in the league that people don't have to listen to my opinions, then I am perfectly fine stepping away and observing from afar and letting things go as they may.

NA, I dont want you to leave, my post was never intended for that. I dont mind you speaking your opinion on deals. It makes it more fun that way. Im the same way, however its his team who am i to call him out on stuff. you cant police a league and not have or let trades go though because a guy makes a few bad deals..... your not gonna have anyone in the league then......

In a few years if this deal hits the fan, and he does it again, blast him then.....

I feel like if you cant take what people are saying then get out, however when you talk about leaving the league or saying something to the affect it makes you want to quit the league, it sounds like something else is going on.

But I for one think its a better place when your around.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I also wonder if it is unfair to Baltimore for you to rescend the trade though. He won out in this deal, but he did propose it and it was accepted.

That's a true point. There is no precedent for rescinding a trade when the owner leaves, if the trade has been accepted.

This is one of those grey area situations.

I think it's probably not fair to the existing owner to dump the trade, that was done in good faith by both teams. You make a solid, solid point.

[Young Drachma]

Dola --

If it were any other owner leaving, I'd not rescind the trade once it were accepted. I shouldn't make an exception because the team was owned by the commish. Trade stands and will be processed after I get in exports tonight.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Dola --

If it were any other owner leaving, I'd not rescind the trade once it were accepted. I shouldn't make an exception because the team was owned by the commish. Trade stands and will be processed after I get in exports tonight.

And now the bar has been set for what I can ask for back from owners interested in Ken Connolly whom has had pretty comparable stats the past 4 years as Harris but with a little better defense, alot younger age and a much much cheaper contract! (Just kidding btw for those who have been talking to me about him)

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by muns

NA, I dont want you to leave, my post was never intended for that. I dont mind you speaking your opinion on deals. It makes it more fun that way. Im the same way, however its his team who am i to call him out on stuff. you cant police a league and not have or let trades go though because a guy makes a few bad deals..... your not gonna have anyone in the league then......

In a few years if this deal hits the fan, and he does it again, blast him then.....

I feel like if you cant take what people are saying then get out, however when you talk about leaving the league or saying something to the affect it makes you want to quit the league, it sounds like something else is going on.

But I for one think its a better place when your around.

Yeah, to be fair, I think I should explain that comment more. I have been in a ton of baseball leagues over the years, and I feel (right or wrong) that I have a pretty good idea of what constitutes good for a league or bad for a league. I do have a framework in my mind for what an ideal league should be, and that ideal league does not include deals like this.

But like I said from the start, I figure that's on me. Deals like that detract from my enjoyment of the league, and that's why it makes me feel like quitting a league. Point is, it's my hang up. If the league chooses to allow it, I can either man up and accept it and adjust, or I can leave. Or I can ride the middle ground (which is what I usually do), and I will do it the way I think is the right way, and if I still manage to win that way when others do it another way, then bully for me.

But I appreciate the support, everyone. I'm just saying, this is me. Take me as I am, because it's who I am.

If you guys think I have scathing opinions of others' moves, you guys should get a peak in my mind and see my opinion of some of my own moves. They make threads like these look like a hand caress.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Alan T

And now the bar has been set for what I can ask for back from owners interested in Ken Connolly whom has had pretty comparable stats the past 4 years as Harris but with a little better defense, alot younger age and a much much cheaper contract! (Just kidding btw for those who have been talking to me about him)

See, I just raise the market price!

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

And now the bar has been set for what I can ask for back from owners interested in Ken Connolly whom has had pretty comparable stats the past 4 years as Harris but with a little better defense, alot younger age and a much much cheaper contract! (Just kidding btw for those who have been talking to me about him)

Whoever gets the shaft from Alan's dealings for Connolly, I will deal Medina for one draft pick less than he will.

[muns]

Originally Posted by Alan T

And now the bar has been set for what I can ask for back from owners interested in Ken Connolly whom has had pretty comparable stats the past 4 years as Harris but with a little better defense, alot younger age and a much much cheaper contract! (Just kidding btw for those who have been talking to me about him)

i was gonna say ummmmmm no

[muns]

I cant find out who the damn draft picks where so im not doing this one