WW XCII Athens -- Destroyed by Wolves! - Page 8

TheNorm · 04-21-2009, 01:57 PM

Nope.

PurdueBrad · 04-21-2009, 01:57 PM

WORRIED ABOUT A TIE HERE

Lathum · 04-21-2009, 01:57 PM

I am willing to vote USFL but we cant have a tie.

Norm, will you vote usfl also?

Lathum · 04-21-2009, 01:57 PM

VOTE USFL

Lathum · 04-21-2009, 01:58 PM

up to you Norm

USFLTecmo · 04-21-2009, 01:58 PM

I haven't seen a reason to vote for me yet, besides the fact I'm in the game, and not an Ephor candidate.

TheNorm · 04-21-2009, 01:58 PM

Sheesh this is a pain in the ass--thanks for putting the noob in such a position to decide.

vote Abe

hoopsguy · 04-21-2009, 01:59 PM

Well, should be interesting to see where TheNorm goes with his vote.

I'll continue this argument on the Marathoner after the deadline if I'm still around to do so. But I think the dominant opinion in the thread is off-base. I sincerely hope that ends up correct, with PB being a good guy, but the conclusions drawn on "no showdown" are faulty, in my mind.

TheNorm · 04-21-2009, 01:59 PM

unvote Abe

vote USFL

hoopsguy · 04-21-2009, 02:00 PM

UNVOTE ABE
VOTE USFL

USFLTecmo · 04-21-2009, 02:00 PM

Sonofa...

If I'm gone, wolves, Lathum's the Ephor. That's all I could get for ya, and I wish I could have done more.

hoopsguy · 04-21-2009, 02:00 PM

Not sure if that will be honored or not, but if so I'll try to keep my promise to Abe about looking at other candidates.

Lathum · 04-21-2009, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USFLTecmo

Sonofa...

If I'm gone, wolves, Lathum's the Ephor. That's all I could get for ya, and I wish I could have done more.

interesting

Lathum · 04-21-2009, 02:04 PM

well obviously USFL is the bad historian because I am the Ephor.

No reason to not reveal this now since the wolves probably already know it.

Lathum · 04-21-2009, 02:04 PM

dola- Why the shout out though if they already know?

Lathum · 04-21-2009, 02:06 PM

double dola- I just read the evil historian actually isn't a wolf, hence his shout out.

Even so, with the 24 hour deadline unless I was already the night kill I should be good today unless PAss accepts late actions, which would irritate me.

Lathum · 04-21-2009, 02:07 PM

dola- I am curious how the historian role works, obviously he was told I am the Ephor.

But would he also be told my alligience, I am assuming he would be, otherwise an unwise move to shout out like that.

MAybe Pass can clarify?

Lathum · 04-21-2009, 02:08 PM

whatever number dola- I think Norm needs to be looked at tomorrow, it could be a potential link between him and Abe

hoopsguy · 04-21-2009, 02:08 PM

Looks like we got a better lynch today than we did yesterday.

Lathum · 04-21-2009, 02:12 PM

it appears so.

I am out for a while, hopefully I will be returning to this thread.

FWIW there wasn't going to be a tie either way, I had a conditional duke order in just in case.

TheNorm · 04-21-2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

whatever number dola- I think Norm needs to be looked at tomorrow, it could be a potential link between him and Abe

roffle.
I was going to stick with my Day 1 vote (as good a theory as any when nothing seems too clear) but in the time that I wrote that up about three messages popped up asking if I'd vote for USFL instead (which IIRC you were leading the last minute charge on that). That's all it is.

Passacaglia · 04-21-2009, 02:30 PM

Vote count, speak up if issues:

Quote:

MartinD -- 0
Abe Sargent -- 2 MartinD (277) USFLTecmo (295)
hoopsguy -- 1 Chief Rum (278)
USFLTecmo -- 5 Abe Sargent (319) PurdueBrad (333) Lathum (354) TheNorm (359) hoopsguy (360)

PurdueBrad · 04-21-2009, 02:35 PM

Just re-read the rules and assumed that evil=wolf, I was wrong there. So we still likely have two wolves among us of the 7 of us. That could be 6 with a night kill but maybe those of you that have said Schmidty could've been a wolf are right, meaning we would be 5-1 instead of the likely 4-2.

Passacaglia · 04-21-2009, 02:42 PM

After very much bickering, the villagers out of nowhere decide on USFLTecmo as their lynch victim. USFLTecmo was the evil historian! You go to sleep feeling pretty please with yourselves for getting rid of one who would help the wolves, but when you wake up, you find that Chief Rum is missing. Chief Rum was a villager!

PurdueBrad · 04-21-2009, 02:52 PM

Nice lynch, although I'm worried about the number of actual wolves now. The other interesting thing here is that the wolves wouldn't have known Tecmo's identity, so voting data will be interesting but maybe not greatly useful (unless I'm missing an angle that works).

Abe Sargent · 04-21-2009, 03:53 PM

Well, I assume I get some trust now?

Thanks for not lynchign me by the by

Abe Sargent · 04-21-2009, 03:57 PM

Wait a second,. i went and reread the rules (yeah, hahaha), and it doesn;t look like the wolves knew who teh evil historian. Man. Now I'm not even cleared!

Abe Sargent · 04-21-2009, 03:57 PM

Abe Sargent · 04-21-2009, 04:02 PM

Pass - Schmidty is still listed in the Athens list.

Do the wolves know who the evil historian was? I hope so, but I doubt it after reading the rulez.

hoopsguy · 04-21-2009, 04:20 PM

Trust lists, excluding self:
1.) Lathum - barring a reverse-psychology trick by Evil Historian on way out the door he is good and he is duke. Good spot for us in a six person game
2.) PurdueBrad - distant second, but I'll concede that he is better than 50/50 good because of potential marathon scenarios (discussed in upcoming post)
3.) TheNorm - alternate Ephor candidate, was not able to get elected by wolves (again, assumes no double-move by our Evil Historian)
4.) AbeSargent - this is where list starts to tilt downward a little bit. My gut has said villager with him, but I'm running out of candidates
5.) MartinD - along with TheNorm, an UTR candidate but without benefit of having "lost" Ephor race.

The other layer on top of this analysis is the Night 1 Schmidty kill. I do not think that Lathum would have gone off the map with that kill. PB wasn't here, so he doesn't apply. Abe? Probably not - I know he thinks very highly of Chief Rum as a villager so I think he would have gone there unless there was some kind of compelling reason to look at Schmidty.

So that leaves TheNorm and MartinD as the guys who I think might have put in that order. I think it is wishful thinking to suggest that both of them are wolves, but one of them along with either Schmidty or Chief Rum (latter more likely) seems possible.

Lathum · 04-21-2009, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNorm

roffle.
I was going to stick with my Day 1 vote (as good a theory as any when nothing seems too clear) but in the time that I wrote that up about three messages popped up asking if I'd vote for USFL instead (which IIRC you were leading the last minute charge on that). That's all it is.

I'm not sure what you find funny and this statement is a little confusing.

Day 1 Abe was pushing for you to be Ephor. We now know I am the Ephor so I think by lynching you we can learn something.

I don't understand your reference to your voting of USFL, can you elaborate please.

hoopsguy · 04-21-2009, 04:35 PM

OK, time to run through my "Marathon" scenarios. I started this exercise yesterday when I though that Chief Rum seemed to be putting out some kind of suspect logic to force a 1:1 on PurdueBrad rather than us taking the 50/50 shot. It certainly felt like "wolf shielding wolf" to me when I read his arguments.

OK, lets say that I'm the good marathoner - I'm not, btw - then here is what I know:
1.) PurdueBrad is a bad guy
2.) When I come forward there is a 50/50 shot that I'm going to be voted off instead of him
3.) If I'm voted off, then I'm likely going to be immediately booted from Sparta, which isn't going to help them with catching wolves either. So both villages would have wasted one day lynching me instead of getting a wolf. Bad for not one, but two, cities.

So, does the Marathon runner feel good about winning a showdown with PB? I guess it depends on when he checked in, as Chief started building a case for PB pretty quickly and Lathum backed it up soon after. At that point, maybe he doesn't like his chances to win the day.

That was how I thought yesterday when I put on my "marathon" cap. I did not trust Rum and, by proxy, did not trust PurdueBrad.

Anyway, all of that logic doesn't matter a whole heck of a lot now because the Marathon runner turtled up. No counter-reveal, no showdown, no one that made it a crusade to get PB voted out today.

So, why would that happen?
1.) Schmidty was the Marathon Runner and was not here to challenge him in the thread because he had already been sent down to try and win Hades.
2.) PurdueBrad actually is the good Marathon runner.
3.) The good Marathon runner is playing a very tentative game, neither following suggested logic in the thread nor confronting PB directly.

If the good marathon runner believed that we started with two wolves, then today's vote was do-or-die for him. The ratio would have been 5-3 and, assuming a wolf kill, we lose the town with a 3-3 ratio. Hard to believe, with this info, that #3 above is viable.

So I'm of the assumption that #2 is true, and it is possible that one of our "night kills" was the Athens marathon runner. Either way, I'm now trusting PB a lot more than I was a couple of hours ago.

hoopsguy · 04-21-2009, 04:56 PM

Roles:
Hoops - vanilla villager
Lathum - Ephor, presumed nothing else?
PB - Marathon Runner
Abe - Phoenix
TheNorm - ???
MartinD - ???

So is today the day that we leave our cards on the table? It is if you believe that there are two wolves remaining in the city. If you think there is only one then we can play this a little bit more slowly.

My gut is to work with the idea that there are two wolves out there, personally. I would rather we make the most informed vote possible, with the Duke getting last option.

Oh, and if there are two wolves and a duke in charge then we are in a crappy position. Crappy enough that I'm resigned to going to Hades.

MartinD · 04-21-2009, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

5.) MartinD - along with TheNorm, an UTR candidate but without benefit of having "lost" Ephor race.

Signs that I'm developing as a WW player #1: Get through a game without being described as 'UTR'

TheNorm · 04-21-2009, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I'm not sure what you find funny and this statement is a little confusing.

Day 1 Abe was pushing for you to be Ephor. We now know I am the Ephor so I think by lynching you we can learn something.

I don't understand your reference to your voting of USFL, can you elaborate please.

I find it funny that I'm under suspicion from you, is all. Posts 352-356 all happened while I was typing out my initial vote in post 357. Since a tie would just result in the village losing two people, I switched my vote to USFL as everyone was following your lead.

If you find something wrong with that, have a go then.

Passacaglia · 04-21-2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Pass - Schmidty is still listed in the Athens list.

Do the wolves know who the evil historian was? I hope so, but I doubt it after reading the rulez.

Thanks, and no.

hoopsguy · 04-21-2009, 05:04 PM

Heh - I think it is as much temperament as experience, MartinD. Some guys like to talk a lot. Others don't push the conversation in the threads as much. For me, I need to have enough posts on a person to be able to develop an opinion. That can either be via volume or clearly defined stances.

I don't know what to think of you in this game, which means that I've got you as UTR for now. But that is certainly subject to change.

Abe Sargent · 04-21-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinD

Signs that I'm developing as a WW player #1: Get through a game without being described as 'UTR'

Heh. I got accused of that last game once. Imagine, me!

PurdueBrad · 04-21-2009, 05:08 PM

Alright, I'm kind of torn. I'm following Hoops' logic but his flip-flop on me feels like one of those things to win me to his side. You know, he attacks but then relents and I'm relieved that he did so and he gets trust from me for that.

Whether Hoops is good or he's a wolf, there is always at least some truth in his logic. I would agree that Norm or Martin D are the places to look. Even if Hoops is a wolf, it wouldn't surprise me to see him present one as an option. So let's look at those two.

Lathum · 04-21-2009, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNorm

I find it funny that I'm under suspicion from you, is all. Posts 352-356 all happened while I was typing out my initial vote in post 357. Since a tie would just result in the village losing two people, I switched my vote to USFL as everyone was following your lead.

If you find something wrong with that, have a go then.

my suspicion of you really has nothing to do with how the vote went other then the fact you waited to vote.

Did you vote that way to save Abe?
Was Abe pushing you because you are both wolves?

These are questions that can be answered by lynching you.

hoopsguy · 04-21-2009, 05:12 PM

PB, call it what you will. I just didn't trust you as much as the rest of the crowd. But I'm at a point where I don't understand the play of a good marathoner against you as an evil one. So rather than keep making up reasons for you to be a wolf I'm now looking at more likely options.

Getting down to the end of the game, every player has a set of assumptions. Right now mine start with Lathum and you, partly out of necessity (if you two aren't good, this is going to be very hard to win) and partly out of conviction.

hoopsguy · 04-21-2009, 05:15 PM

Dola - "if either of you two (PB or Lathum) aren't good, this is going to be very hard to win". Minor correction from last post.

PurdueBrad · 04-21-2009, 05:17 PM

Hoops, let me be clear, I wasn't casting suspicion. This is one of those posts where, if this is another game where you drill me as a wolf, I can feel better when I look back at that post. It'll save my self-esteem later.

PurdueBrad · 04-21-2009, 05:18 PM

If you take Lathum and I out of the equation, that leaves four which is really a 50/50 shot for tomorrow. That's not a bad feeling, honestly.

TheNorm · 04-21-2009, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

my suspicion of you really has nothing to do with how the vote went other then the fact you waited to vote.

Did you vote that way to save Abe?
Was Abe pushing you because you are both wolves?

These are questions that can be answered by lynching you.

I voted that way because I'm new here and don't have a read on anybody yet; chances are if I'd have voted earlier you'd find something wrong with that too. Plus there is also this:

Quote:

I am willing to vote USFL but we cant have a tie.

Norm, will you vote usfl also?

and

Quote:

up to you Norm

I went that route since you asked oh so nicely. All I'm guilty of is being a sheep. But since it seems you've got your little heart set on it Encyclopedia Brown, just go right ahead and cast that vote for the new guy.

Abe Sargent · 04-21-2009, 06:07 PM

Ah man, he referenced Encyclopedia Brown!

Lathum · 04-21-2009, 06:10 PM

I asked those questions because I didn't want a tie and have to use my ability

Lathum · 04-21-2009, 06:18 PM

dola- Norm, you are getting pretty agitated and playing the new card when really it's already day 3.

I just wonder if that's a wolf defense or your playing style?

I mentioned earlier it isn't just your vote today, it's the overall sum of the game. Whether he meant to or not, Abe put extra heat on you by bringing you up day 1.

hoopsguy · 04-21-2009, 06:47 PM

TheNorm - it is probably about time to start working on having some reads on people. Because if you are truly waiting for other people to provide them for you then you are either susceptible to wolf BS or a wolf yourself hoping not to attract attention. Neither one is particularly good.

Based on your earlier comments, you have a couple of games under your belt. You should expect the scrutiny to ratchet up a bit as we get into the tougher votes. Most of the long-time players here handle the new guys with kid gloves early (in terms of early votes) but that just cannot happen late in a game.

Encyclopedia Brown

- Lathum may hear about that one for a couple of games ...

Encyclopedia Brown · 04-21-2009, 07:26 PM

VOTE THENORM

04-21-2009, 03:53 PM	#376
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	Well, I assume I get some trust now? Thanks for not lynchign me by the by __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

04-21-2009, 03:57 PM	#377
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	Wait a second,. i went and reread the rules (yeah, hahaha), and it doesn;t look like the wolves knew who teh evil historian. Man. Now I'm not even cleared! __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

04-21-2009, 03:57 PM	#378
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	__________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

04-21-2009, 04:02 PM	#379
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	Pass - Schmidty is still listed in the Athens list. Do the wolves know who the evil historian was? I hope so, but I doubt it after reading the rulez. __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

04-21-2009, 06:07 PM	#396
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	Ah man, he referenced Encyclopedia Brown! __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

04-21-2009, 01:57 PM	#351
TheNorm Mascot Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Chicago, IL	Nope.

04-21-2009, 01:57 PM	#352
PurdueBrad Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: DeKalb, IL	WORRIED ABOUT A TIE HERE

04-21-2009, 01:57 PM	#353
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	I am willing to vote USFL but we cant have a tie. Norm, will you vote usfl also?

04-21-2009, 01:57 PM	#354
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	VOTE USFL

04-21-2009, 01:58 PM	#355
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	up to you Norm

04-21-2009, 01:58 PM	#356
USFLTecmo H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, Wisconsin	I haven't seen a reason to vote for me yet, besides the fact I'm in the game, and not an Ephor candidate.

04-21-2009, 01:58 PM	#357
TheNorm Mascot Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Chicago, IL	Sheesh this is a pain in the ass--thanks for putting the noob in such a position to decide. vote Abe

04-21-2009, 01:59 PM	#358
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Well, should be interesting to see where TheNorm goes with his vote. I'll continue this argument on the Marathoner after the deadline if I'm still around to do so. But I think the dominant opinion in the thread is off-base. I sincerely hope that ends up correct, with PB being a good guy, but the conclusions drawn on "no showdown" are faulty, in my mind.

04-21-2009, 01:59 PM	#359
TheNorm Mascot Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Chicago, IL	unvote Abe vote USFL

04-21-2009, 02:00 PM	#360
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	UNVOTE ABE VOTE USFL

04-21-2009, 02:00 PM	#361
USFLTecmo H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, Wisconsin	Sonofa... If I'm gone, wolves, Lathum's the Ephor. That's all I could get for ya, and I wish I could have done more.

04-21-2009, 02:00 PM	#362
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Not sure if that will be honored or not, but if so I'll try to keep my promise to Abe about looking at other candidates.

04-21-2009, 02:04 PM	#364
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	well obviously USFL is the bad historian because I am the Ephor. No reason to not reveal this now since the wolves probably already know it.

04-21-2009, 02:04 PM	#365
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	dola- Why the shout out though if they already know?

04-21-2009, 02:06 PM	#366
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	double dola- I just read the evil historian actually isn't a wolf, hence his shout out. Even so, with the 24 hour deadline unless I was already the night kill I should be good today unless PAss accepts late actions, which would irritate me.

04-21-2009, 02:07 PM	#367
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	dola- I am curious how the historian role works, obviously he was told I am the Ephor. But would he also be told my alligience, I am assuming he would be, otherwise an unwise move to shout out like that. MAybe Pass can clarify?

04-21-2009, 02:08 PM	#368
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	whatever number dola- I think Norm needs to be looked at tomorrow, it could be a potential link between him and Abe

04-21-2009, 02:08 PM	#369
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Looks like we got a better lynch today than we did yesterday.

04-21-2009, 02:12 PM	#370
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	it appears so. I am out for a while, hopefully I will be returning to this thread. FWIW there wasn't going to be a tie either way, I had a conditional duke order in just in case.

04-21-2009, 02:35 PM	#373
PurdueBrad Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: DeKalb, IL	Just re-read the rules and assumed that evil=wolf, I was wrong there. So we still likely have two wolves among us of the 7 of us. That could be 6 with a night kill but maybe those of you that have said Schmidty could've been a wolf are right, meaning we would be 5-1 instead of the likely 4-2.

04-21-2009, 02:42 PM	#374
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	After very much bickering, the villagers out of nowhere decide on USFLTecmo as their lynch victim. USFLTecmo was the evil historian! You go to sleep feeling pretty please with yourselves for getting rid of one who would help the wolves, but when you wake up, you find that Chief Rum is missing. Chief Rum was a villager!

04-21-2009, 02:52 PM	#375
PurdueBrad Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: DeKalb, IL	Nice lynch, although I'm worried about the number of actual wolves now. The other interesting thing here is that the wolves wouldn't have known Tecmo's identity, so voting data will be interesting but maybe not greatly useful (unless I'm missing an angle that works).

04-21-2009, 04:20 PM	#380
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Trust lists, excluding self: 1.) Lathum - barring a reverse-psychology trick by Evil Historian on way out the door he is good and he is duke. Good spot for us in a six person game 2.) PurdueBrad - distant second, but I'll concede that he is better than 50/50 good because of potential marathon scenarios (discussed in upcoming post) 3.) TheNorm - alternate Ephor candidate, was not able to get elected by wolves (again, assumes no double-move by our Evil Historian) 4.) AbeSargent - this is where list starts to tilt downward a little bit. My gut has said villager with him, but I'm running out of candidates 5.) MartinD - along with TheNorm, an UTR candidate but without benefit of having "lost" Ephor race. The other layer on top of this analysis is the Night 1 Schmidty kill. I do not think that Lathum would have gone off the map with that kill. PB wasn't here, so he doesn't apply. Abe? Probably not - I know he thinks very highly of Chief Rum as a villager so I think he would have gone there unless there was some kind of compelling reason to look at Schmidty. So that leaves TheNorm and MartinD as the guys who I think might have put in that order. I think it is wishful thinking to suggest that both of them are wolves, but one of them along with either Schmidty or Chief Rum (latter more likely) seems possible.

04-21-2009, 04:35 PM	#382
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	OK, time to run through my "Marathon" scenarios. I started this exercise yesterday when I though that Chief Rum seemed to be putting out some kind of suspect logic to force a 1:1 on PurdueBrad rather than us taking the 50/50 shot. It certainly felt like "wolf shielding wolf" to me when I read his arguments. OK, lets say that I'm the good marathoner - I'm not, btw - then here is what I know: 1.) PurdueBrad is a bad guy 2.) When I come forward there is a 50/50 shot that I'm going to be voted off instead of him 3.) If I'm voted off, then I'm likely going to be immediately booted from Sparta, which isn't going to help them with catching wolves either. So both villages would have wasted one day lynching me instead of getting a wolf. Bad for not one, but two, cities. So, does the Marathon runner feel good about winning a showdown with PB? I guess it depends on when he checked in, as Chief started building a case for PB pretty quickly and Lathum backed it up soon after. At that point, maybe he doesn't like his chances to win the day. That was how I thought yesterday when I put on my "marathon" cap. I did not trust Rum and, by proxy, did not trust PurdueBrad. Anyway, all of that logic doesn't matter a whole heck of a lot now because the Marathon runner turtled up. No counter-reveal, no showdown, no one that made it a crusade to get PB voted out today. So, why would that happen? 1.) Schmidty was the Marathon Runner and was not here to challenge him in the thread because he had already been sent down to try and win Hades. 2.) PurdueBrad actually is the good Marathon runner. 3.) The good Marathon runner is playing a very tentative game, neither following suggested logic in the thread nor confronting PB directly. If the good marathon runner believed that we started with two wolves, then today's vote was do-or-die for him. The ratio would have been 5-3 and, assuming a wolf kill, we lose the town with a 3-3 ratio. Hard to believe, with this info, that #3 above is viable. So I'm of the assumption that #2 is true, and it is possible that one of our "night kills" was the Athens marathon runner. Either way, I'm now trusting PB a lot more than I was a couple of hours ago.

04-21-2009, 04:56 PM	#383
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Roles: Hoops - vanilla villager Lathum - Ephor, presumed nothing else? PB - Marathon Runner Abe - Phoenix TheNorm - ??? MartinD - ??? So is today the day that we leave our cards on the table? It is if you believe that there are two wolves remaining in the city. If you think there is only one then we can play this a little bit more slowly. My gut is to work with the idea that there are two wolves out there, personally. I would rather we make the most informed vote possible, with the Duke getting last option. Oh, and if there are two wolves and a duke in charge then we are in a crappy position. Crappy enough that I'm resigned to going to Hades.

04-21-2009, 05:04 PM	#387
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Heh - I think it is as much temperament as experience, MartinD. Some guys like to talk a lot. Others don't push the conversation in the threads as much. For me, I need to have enough posts on a person to be able to develop an opinion. That can either be via volume or clearly defined stances. I don't know what to think of you in this game, which means that I've got you as UTR for now. But that is certainly subject to change.

04-21-2009, 05:08 PM	#389
PurdueBrad Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: DeKalb, IL	Alright, I'm kind of torn. I'm following Hoops' logic but his flip-flop on me feels like one of those things to win me to his side. You know, he attacks but then relents and I'm relieved that he did so and he gets trust from me for that. Whether Hoops is good or he's a wolf, there is always at least some truth in his logic. I would agree that Norm or Martin D are the places to look. Even if Hoops is a wolf, it wouldn't surprise me to see him present one as an option. So let's look at those two.

04-21-2009, 05:12 PM	#391
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	PB, call it what you will. I just didn't trust you as much as the rest of the crowd. But I'm at a point where I don't understand the play of a good marathoner against you as an evil one. So rather than keep making up reasons for you to be a wolf I'm now looking at more likely options. Getting down to the end of the game, every player has a set of assumptions. Right now mine start with Lathum and you, partly out of necessity (if you two aren't good, this is going to be very hard to win) and partly out of conviction.

04-21-2009, 05:15 PM	#392
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Dola - "if either of you two (PB or Lathum) aren't good, this is going to be very hard to win". Minor correction from last post.

04-21-2009, 05:17 PM	#393
PurdueBrad Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: DeKalb, IL	Hoops, let me be clear, I wasn't casting suspicion. This is one of those posts where, if this is another game where you drill me as a wolf, I can feel better when I look back at that post. It'll save my self-esteem later.