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Old 04-28-2009, 01:16 PM   #351
ntndeacon
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One thing we ought to be aware of. With the sympathizers reaching into the labor force to subvert our efforts, working solely on winning camps, may not be awinning strategy. I do think that we need to win all three things today. I imagine that losing the mission helps the sympathizers...(experience in other games is where that comes from) Plus we should get both of our work done today.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:25 PM   #352
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If Abe says no to all those things, I agree with path (I'm sure others have said it, but path's post 345 is in my line of sight now), that we should convert the camps -- I'd rather get a camp down, and just hope we get the mission, instead of guessing on all my questions in post 346.

.

I think it is important to capture the camp today, tomorrow hopefully we will know a little more about how it all works.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:30 PM   #353
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I actually think I agree with Lathum. Let's get the camp squared away today, see what shakes loose and go from there.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:32 PM   #354
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:33 PM   #355
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So I see 10 and 10. Frankly, BK's move off 11 doesn't sit well. An argument for putting too much in the camps and ignoring the mission is one thing, but if we're sitting at 10, we might as well move up to 11.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:34 PM   #356
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:34 PM   #357
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We've still got TheNorm, me, and Schmidty to do stuff. Guys who are on now -- can we trust them to put in work on each of these, leaving me to work on the mission, since they're not here now, or should I put in work on one of these just in case?
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:38 PM   #358
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Don't believe the GM. We don't need to kill any sympathizers to win the game. We just need to convert 8 camps. Now I presume getting the work done isn't as easy as it appears, but theoretically we need not ever vote anyone off.

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I have real concerns about the amount we're overdoing things. Going to 11 in each seems like a sure way to fail the mission. Further going to 11 means that if one of our x3 people is lying we have no way of catching that. Let me say that again: If we have a wolf lying about a x3 skill and we go to 11 we'll never know the difference. Overdoing it means that if something comes short we can catch the person in a lie. So overdoing it is a risk that we should face without these reveals not with.

Cancel my work on oratory
Go on the mission

Here's posts 139 and 328, FWIW.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:40 PM   #359
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I actually think I agree with Lathum.

you seem surprised by this.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:41 PM   #360
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you seem surprised by this.
you are known to be insane after all....
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:41 PM   #361
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So I see 10 and 10. Frankly, BK's move off 11 doesn't sit well. An argument for putting too much in the camps and ignoring the mission is one thing, but if we're sitting at 10, we might as well move up to 11.

or down to 9
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:41 PM   #362
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In post 328, I don't think BK as much as said that we should be more interested in catching wolves, but it seemed implied to me, which contradicted 139. I'm not so sure he's exactly contradicting himself, reading it again, but there's a definite shift in priorities there -- he's gone from just making sure the work gets done, to also maybe trying to catch someone in a lie.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:41 PM   #363
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you are known to be insane after all....

fine line between genius and insanity my friend..
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:43 PM   #364
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We've still got TheNorm, me, and Schmidty to do stuff. Guys who are on now -- can we trust them to put in work on each of these, leaving me to work on the mission, since they're not here now, or should I put in work on one of these just in case?

How about this

Pass- mission
Norm- Gladhanding
Schmidty-Oratoring (sp?)
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:45 PM   #365
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How about this

Pass- mission
Norm- Gladhanding
Schmidty-Oratoring (sp?)

If people are cool with that, I am. BUT, I'm a little worried that there's a good chance that they don't both show up in time.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:47 PM   #366
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In post 328, I don't think BK as much as said that we should be more interested in catching wolves, but it seemed implied to me, which contradicted 139. I'm not so sure he's exactly contradicting himself, reading it again, but there's a definite shift in priorities there -- he's gone from just making sure the work gets done, to also maybe trying to catch someone in a lie.

I think a case can be made for not having a +3 buffer, I'm just not sure BK made one.

Seems to me if I recall games like Spawn correctly that it is not usually a good move for a wolf to actively sabotage, especially early in the game. Why call attention to yourself by being part of a group that does not reach a goal so soon?

I'd bet that 8 on each would be fine, but at the same time am not trusting enough to go that low.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:49 PM   #367
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fine line between genius and insanity my friend..
yes it is... lucky for us your nowhere near it! :P
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:50 PM   #368
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If people are cool with that, I am. BUT, I'm a little worried that there's a good chance that they don't both show up in time.

Well, the people that want to do the mission have to submit for it by 3pm. The other two (gladhandling and oratory) have until 9pm. I'm here so I can do either/or. If you want the mission, have at it--I'll move to oratory.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:50 PM   #369
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I think a case can be made for not having a +3 buffer, I'm just not sure BK made one.

Seems to me if I recall games like Spawn correctly that it is not usually a good move for a wolf to actively sabotage, especially early in the game. Why call attention to yourself by being part of a group that does not reach a goal so soon?

I'd bet that 8 on each would be fine, but at the same time am not trusting enough to go that low.

I agree with this -- 8 does seem pretty okay, especially since with some people at x3, there's really only 3 or 4 people that we'd have to choose from, and that's pretty decent odds of us finding a wolf. My issue with the change was more about dropping us from 11 to 10.

On the other hand, if we fail at 10, then we've got a liar out of the 2 or 3 people who are x3, which is good odds. Hmm.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:52 PM   #370
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I agree with this -- 8 does seem pretty okay, especially since with some people at x3, there's really only 3 or 4 people that we'd have to choose from, and that's pretty decent odds of us finding a wolf. My issue with the change was more about dropping us from 11 to 10.

On the other hand, if we fail at 10, then we've got a liar out of the 2 or 3 people who are x3, which is good odds. Hmm.

The thing I am worried about is a wolf saying they are a X3 but only doing a x1 or x2 and making it look like someone else was the sabatouer.

does that make sense?
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:52 PM   #371
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Well, the people that want to do the mission have to submit for it by 3pm. The other two (gladhandling and oratory) have until 9pm. I'm here so I can do either/or. If you want the mission, have at it--I'll move to oratory.

Either way is cool with me. You can choose, just give me some time to see your choice and respond.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:53 PM   #372
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The thing I am worried about is a wolf saying they are a X3 but only doing a x1 or x2 and making it look like someone else was the sabatouer.

does that make sense?

Definitely. So if we're at 8, it could be any of them faking, not just one of the x1's. Will we even know how many we got? If we miss out, I think we'd have to look at all of the workers on it.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:53 PM   #373
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Either way is cool with me. You can choose, just give me some time to see your choice and respond.

Works for me.

Go On Mission
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:54 PM   #374
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FWIW, I've got other things to attend to right now; will be checking in later this afternoon/early evening.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:54 PM   #375
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WORK ON ORATORY
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:56 PM   #376
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The thing I am worried about is a wolf saying they are a X3 but only doing a x1 or x2 and making it look like someone else was the sabatouer.

does that make sense?

Yeah, but I don't think anyone in a group that doesn't accomplish their goal gets a pass. I think everyone in that group would register some amount of distrust.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:57 PM   #377
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OT -- I thought Alan was playing? What happened?
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:58 PM   #378
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He realized too much work on his plate.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:58 PM   #379
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PM'd me asking to remove him from the game
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:00 PM   #380
Abe Sargent
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Tiem check
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:00 PM   #381
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Okay, allow me to process the Mission
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:01 PM   #382
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Yeah, but I don't think anyone in a group that doesn't accomplish their goal gets a pass. I think everyone in that group would register some amount of distrust.

I would agree, but if we miss by 1 the initial distrust would fall on the person who isn't a x3.

I think by being so open with information we have already given the wolves a lot of leeway on allowing wolves to manipulate us.

I know BK and Danny's points have merit, but I just can't get past the creepiness of being so open with information.
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:01 PM   #383
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He realized too much work on his plate.

That sucks. I thought he was just being REALLY quiet.
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:02 PM   #384
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so Schmidty is voting Glandhanding, correct?
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:02 PM   #385
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Your group works hard to organize the rescue and then to find miners in the explosion. Many of you have to leave after just 10 minutes of exposure in the mines, the gas is so poisonous. The mine does not have the equipment available to send people into the mine to rescue.

At the end of the rescue efforts, it becomes obvious that you are unable to make any real impact. However, you are able to rescue one miner, Peter Urban.

Without the proper equipment, the recovery effort has to wait until the gas and smoke clears and it ceases to be an operation to find live miners and instead becomes one to find dead bodies. Churches and the bank vault are converted to morgues.

At the end of the work, 362 miners’ bodies are recovered, and you prevented it from being 363. No one knows how many died down there, the company can’t say, they don’t have an audit. The official report lists the 362, but historians claim over 500, and one count is 956.

A large number of the miners killed at the Monongah Mine Disaster are Italian, and Italy sends a delegation to investigate their deaths. 171 of the 362 listed are Italian immigrants and many did not speak English.

The Monongah Mine Disaster is called the worst mining disaster in US history.

Your mission to save miners is a success, even though you saved just one man.
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:04 PM   #386
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Hmm. Some success that was!
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:05 PM   #387
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OK, my take on it is this has something to do with the endgame scenerio. My guess is Italians will be more pissed off and likely to rebel.
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:08 PM   #388
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so Schmidty is voting Glandhanding, correct?
if he follows the theory yes///
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:10 PM   #389
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if he follows the theory yes///

He effing better. It would be folly to put us at 12 in oratory, and 10 in gladhandling.
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:10 PM   #390
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Sounds like this was doomed to begin with what with the poisonous gas. I wonder if that person we saved is going to be involved in the game somehow
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:12 PM   #391
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Several historians have researched early mining disasters and pointed out that you were more likely to die as a miner in a coal mine from a disaster than you were from being a solider in World War I
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:12 PM   #392
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just for reference we had 8 people on the mission, not factoring in skill points.
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:12 PM   #393
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I agree with BK on this. Yes we need to win camps but there is no way the game is set up so we just need to keep winning camps to win the game. If they can night kill that means it gets harder to win the camps and closer to their victory condition. I am HIGHLY suspicious of anyone that wants to make it easier to hide the sabotage.

Basically there are two groups of people that I am suspicious of already. Those that want to make it tougher to weed out the sympathisers and those who have tried to give themselves an out on picking their specialty with "I think I am xxxxxx" (how much remembering is involved, read the PM again).
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:15 PM   #394
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Sounds like this was doomed to begin with what with the poisonous gas. I wonder if that person we saved is going to be involved in the game somehow

I was thinking he might become allied with someone.
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:16 PM   #395
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I was thinking he might become allied with someone.


i think its just part of the story....
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:16 PM   #396
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I agree with BK on this. Yes we need to win camps but there is no way the game is set up so we just need to keep winning camps to win the game. If they can night kill that means it gets harder to win the camps and closer to their victory condition. I am HIGHLY suspicious of anyone that wants to make it easier to hide the sabotage.

.

I don't understand your point.

are you saying you think it is OK to lose camps to catch sympathizers?

If anything I think it is important to win camps early before the sympathize-villager ratio gets smaller and they can control the votes even more.
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:17 PM   #397
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It looks like part of the reason the mission failed is because we lacked proper equipment. Does anyone have any kind of equipping skill?
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:23 PM   #398
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It looks like part of the reason the mission failed is because we lacked proper equipment. Does anyone have any kind of equipping skill?

The mission didn't fail. It was rated as a success.
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:27 PM   #399
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The mission didn't fail. It was rated as a success.

Good point. So....WTF does that mean?
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:32 PM   #400
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Any impat from the mission, however, will not be known until the deadline, so you do not have to be on at a certain time. You will only know if the mission was successful or not at mission deadline, you will not know the results, so you don;t have to be here, it's not another deadline I'm adding to be ornery, etc. Frankly, its one way I can break up the monotony of a day with no lynches, and keep the game going, if that makes sense.


To answer questions right now, and quote myself previosuly, so I look like I'm on the ball.
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