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Old 04-15-2015, 09:32 PM   #951
Vaimes
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Well, that was quick.

gg all

Next time I'll be more mindful of what does and doesn't flow in the games here. ,_,
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Old 04-15-2015, 09:34 PM   #952
Shoveler
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Thanks Zinto.. We sucked, but it was fun.
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Old 04-15-2015, 09:40 PM   #953
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Originally Posted by Vaimes View Post
Well, that was quick.

gg all

Next time I'll be more mindful of what does and doesn't flow in the games here. ,_,

I liked your claim... I see where it can completely mess up the level 1 thinking for the wolfies for a few days. No more tic tac toe. Nice play there my friend!
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Old 04-15-2015, 09:43 PM   #954
The Jackal
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Nice work, path. Raven vote was definitely crucial.
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Old 04-15-2015, 10:01 PM   #955
fontisian
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Fun game. Well done town.
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Old 04-15-2015, 10:02 PM   #956
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Fun game. Well done town.

good game
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Old 04-15-2015, 10:04 PM   #957
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Grover, your main mistake was the waffling over which of Path and Shoveler were telling the truth. Going with the flow there and maybe expressing some happiness over getting Raven and Shoveler would have let you survive a little longer. Bussing, especially when Shoveler was going down the first time, would have helped a lot too.
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Old 04-15-2015, 10:05 PM   #958
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good game
Ef, sorry for freaking you out. It just felt so out of left field when you normally seem like a really level headed guy.
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Old 04-15-2015, 10:36 PM   #959
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Ef, sorry for freaking you out. It just felt so out of left field when you normally seem like a really level headed guy.

I went over the top a bit. Part was "not twice in a row" and once I got to where I figured I was done I wanted to go down fighting a bit. You seemed to get a bit too defensive early on. From there it seemed like every time I turned around you were leading the charge against me; really hard for a day one charge.

It is what it is.

I'm still feeling a bit lousy but I really didn't want to post that in thread (I didn't care if I was voted out and figured it would clear up the first day anyway) and have it seem like a lame way to get sympathy. It kind of worked out as I was laying low from almost anything on Tuesday so knowing that I couldn't change kept me from wanting to check back in.

It's all good, no residual from this. (though I really hoped you were a wolf this game )
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Old 04-16-2015, 01:40 AM   #960
Narcizo
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The NK on britrock essentially gave us 2 D1s, because of so much focus on EF. We knew EF would still have a lot of focus on D2, so he'd get at least some of the votes, and the other focus would most likely be on another villager.

Things actually were going exactly that way as 30 mins after N1, EF already had 2 votes. If EF doesn't lock himself in on Shoveler so early after N1, the voting for D2 would have likely been all over the place.

A few people said that NK on Brit was not a good move, but I think they actually didn't understand it. I still like the move, but think EF locking in on Shoveler had a negative snowball effect on us.

I can understand your thinking but there is a reason taking out Britrock suggested inexperienced players and that's because it helped the village with vote clarification and made it look like Eagle was being set up. Had you taken out anyone else I'm pretty sure Eagle gets lynched day two no matter what. I would have voted for him. If nothing else then because he tied the vote which is a wolf move unless he has a power role, which he'd already claimed he didn't.

There was a fair bit of luck on the villagers side though first landing on Shoveler and then on you on day two. It's pretty hard to know how much is random and how much is valid reads, probably a bit of both although mostly random in my case.
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Old 04-16-2015, 01:43 AM   #961
Narcizo
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Ef, sorry for freaking you out. It just felt so out of left field when you normally seem like a really level headed guy.

I have to say that I'm very impressed that you managed to back away and look elsewhere on day two. When I get in the mood that I've convinced myself someone is a wolf I won't budge come hell or high water. To the extent that I would doubt a seer scan that says otherwise.
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Old 04-16-2015, 01:47 AM   #962
Narcizo
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Next time I'll be more mindful of what does and doesn't flow in the games here. ,_,

I actually appreciated it and I hope you continue playing the way you do. It makes things much more interesting if there are other ideas and attitudes introduced and I think that's reflected in the fact that there was more discussion on day one than is usual in a vanilla game like this.
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Old 04-16-2015, 07:13 AM   #963
Grover
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I find I get more frustrated than I'm having fun.

I struggle with reading into posts and going through vote history etc, etc. Most of the time I'm going through the motions of no real idea of what I'm trying to accomplish. I feel like I'm out of my depth around here. That's all.
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Old 04-16-2015, 08:02 AM   #964
JAG
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The first couple days are the hardest for reading into posts. Some people have remarkable intuition, but for most people it's a matter of prodding and questioning people until you get something that doesn't make sense

For voting analysis, it's mostly a matter of knowing that the wolves know each other and the villagers don't. There are certain things that wolves don't usually do, like purposefully voting out roles wolves, that can provide evidence that a player is more likely to be a villager or the other way around, a vote like you had D2 where you tried to help out Shoveler looked like a wolf trying to protect another wolf. Of course it doesn't always work out, especially with veteran wolves. Not sure if reading through old games appeals to you, but the voting analysis done in this game has always been one of my favorites if you're interested in some pointers:

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Old 04-16-2015, 08:31 AM   #965
cheekimonk
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Thank you, Zinto!! Was still a fun game with the last minute (seconds?) plays by me and EF then the immediate NK on brit. Don't know how the wolves targeted brit ahead of EF and I being tied...that could have been a triple lynch if the tie = both EF and I getting lynched.
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Old 04-16-2015, 10:29 AM   #966
Chief Rum
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I had one good game, the first. Perhaps this is not for me.

I think you're just fine, Grover. You were the last wolf standing after all, and that was with your time commitments getting in the way. As was pointed out, you also had an All Star team of villagers in this one (JAG, The Jackal, EF, Autumn, path, Narc for starters, font clearly has a ton of experience at BGG; really, there weren't any slouches over there, and they were all participating, too).

Can't expect to beat the 1927 Yanks with a team trying to learn on the fly. Now that I know the whole situation, I think you guys did some really interesting things, and I am very intrigued to see how you, Raven and Shoveler continue to grow as WW players).
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Old 04-16-2015, 10:29 AM   #967
Chief Rum
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And, yes, thank you Zinto! I had fun with this game.
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Old 04-16-2015, 10:33 AM   #968
Chief Rum
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Well, that was quick.

gg all

Next time I'll be more mindful of what does and doesn't flow in the games here. ,_,

Naw, don't change. The first time doing something new (new to us at FOFC) can be rough, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have value.

FTR, I still view it as a strategy that introduces needless confusion into the village thinking, but if you think it has value, I encourage you to keep trying it and prove to me what value it can have.
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Old 04-16-2015, 10:40 AM   #969
Chief Rum
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font, as intense as much of our sparring was, I just wanted to say I enjoyed the back and forth with you. It definitely got me into the game.

I'm not going to say there wasn't anything personal, because that's silly, we were really going at it. I definitely wanted to be "right" in our argument, you know? lol But for me at least, I don't carry anything over, except maybe I'll meta vote you on Day One.

And I still don't like the style/approach with which you went after EF, but I understand your strategy there at least. It's not one I would employ, but I can get behind a strategy of putting pressure on players and seeing how they react.

I look forward to Day One voting you in the next game.
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Old 04-16-2015, 10:41 AM   #970
Shoveler
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As an after the game discussion point, during the last hour of my fake reveal I had considered putting the night kill on myself. I'm not sure if that is a valid move in the game (can the wolves target themselves?) to see if the martyr was protecting me. But in the end with narc and chief being unable to react, there were to many possibilities that came to mind where that wouldn't work out well.
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Old 04-16-2015, 10:51 AM   #971
Chief Rum
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As an after the game discussion point, during the last hour of my fake reveal I had considered putting the night kill on myself. I'm not sure if that is a valid move in the game (can the wolves target themselves?) to see if the martyr was protecting me. But in the end with narc and chief being unable to react, there were to many possibilities that came to mind where that wouldn't work out well.

Interesting. If you recall, I put out that possibility (wolf targeting wolf) during my argument with font.

I was considering whether the wolves would actually target one of their own on the assumption he would protected by the martyr. I thought that would be a very risky move, though.
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Old 04-16-2015, 10:54 AM   #972
The Jackal
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That's a really interesting idea. Totally risky, but interesting.
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Old 04-16-2015, 11:26 AM   #973
Shoveler
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That's a really interesting idea. Totally risky, but interesting.

Well after the vote turned on raven we were sort of hosed. So at that point making my reveal look legitimate was sort of pressing. The martyr was the number one priority, if he got taken out after the reveal it would make me look legitimate. But we had no idea who that would be, we had the seer nailed down to three people, and two of those three ended up being the two roles, but of course we chose poorly and plucked chief the vanilla villager.
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Old 04-16-2015, 11:29 AM   #974
The Jackal
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Yeah it's pretty amazing how a game can turn on a dime in the space of a few minutes like that.
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Old 04-16-2015, 11:44 AM   #975
Raven
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Originally Posted by Narcizo View Post
I can understand your thinking but there is a reason taking out Britrock suggested inexperienced players and that's because it helped the village with vote clarification and made it look like Eagle was being set up. Had you taken out anyone else I'm pretty sure Eagle gets lynched day two no matter what. I would have voted for him. If nothing else then because he tied the vote which is a wolf move unless he has a power role, which he'd already claimed he didn't.

There was a fair bit of luck on the villagers side though first landing on Shoveler and then on you on day two. It's pretty hard to know how much is random and how much is valid reads, probably a bit of both although mostly random in my case.

If EF doesn't lock himself onto Shoveler, OR font doesn't flip her vote from EF to Shoveler, we could have been in perfect shape heading into Day 3. As long as font and EF were still alive and battling it out/targeting each other, it played well for us.

Unfortunately for us, both of those things went against us, so we'll never know!
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Old 04-16-2015, 12:04 PM   #976
cheekimonk
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Yeah it's pretty amazing how a game can turn on a dime in the space of a few minutes like that.

Truth. Just the game before we had that insane triple-kill for the wolves.
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Old 04-16-2015, 12:20 PM   #977
Autumn
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Great game, Zinto, it was fun to do a plain jane game for a change. And it's fun to have so many new players, makes it tricky again to figure people out.
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Old 04-16-2015, 12:55 PM   #978
Narcizo
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Originally Posted by Shoveler View Post
As an after the game discussion point, during the last hour of my fake reveal I had considered putting the night kill on myself. I'm not sure if that is a valid move in the game (can the wolves target themselves?) to see if the martyr was protecting me. But in the end with narc and chief being unable to react, there were to many possibilities that came to mind where that wouldn't work out well.

I think it would have worked because I had a conditional that meant I was protecting you. That would have been a great play.
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Old 04-16-2015, 12:57 PM   #979
Narcizo
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I think the dialogue I had with Danny is my favourite experience in werewolf here. It's not often I get the chance to experience that.
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Old 04-16-2015, 01:05 PM   #980
JAG
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Originally Posted by Shoveler View Post
As an after the game discussion point, during the last hour of my fake reveal I had considered putting the night kill on myself. I'm not sure if that is a valid move in the game (can the wolves target themselves?) to see if the martyr was protecting me. But in the end with narc and chief being unable to react, there were to many possibilities that came to mind where that wouldn't work out well.

Cool idea. On D3 I was wondering how things would've changed if you picked Narc to kill rather than CR.
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Old 04-16-2015, 01:11 PM   #981
Grover
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I'm a little down about because I had path on my radar as a potential target from D1. We decided to do what we did to cause confusion and it worked to an extent.

We really were closer than I want to admit. I'd just rather be bummed out about losing so handily.
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Old 04-16-2015, 07:10 PM   #982
Autumn
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I'm a little down about because I had path on my radar as a potential target from D1. We decided to do what we did to cause confusion and it worked to an extent.

We really were closer than I want to admit. I'd just rather be bummed out about losing so handily.

Hey now, at least it wasn't a shutout!
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Old 04-16-2015, 08:12 PM   #983
britrock88
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You haven't even been able to get into the flow of a role. You started as single person bad team, then went to a power role and now you were a wolf on an all newbie team. Trust me it gets easier or at least more comfortable.

Yeah, Grover. I can already picture the relief you'll feel when you get a couple cracks at being a vanilla.
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Old 04-16-2015, 08:13 PM   #984
britrock88
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And wolf-team, good job on assessing the situation and trying some out-of-the-box play. You had to deal with a veteran village and were on the wrong side of some of the breaks of the game. Keep at it!
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