FOFC GroupThink 2024: We take over the (beloved) Arizona Cardinals

[QuikSand]

Fresh off our GRAND SUCCESSES of recent years:

FOFC GroupThink 2022: We take over the NY Football Giants

FOFC GroupThink 2023: We take over the Detroit Lions

...we now set our sights on a goal, to, uhh, idano, what do we do down here in cactusville anyway? RED STORM RISING or something? Maybe that needs to be part of the plan, let's get some of them Mad Men in here to help us sell this turd sandwich.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Looking forward to helping out Thomkal’s beloved Cardinals. When we step in, the team makes the playoffs. Can we do it again?

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Looking forward to helping out Thomkal’s beloved Cardinals. When we step in, the team makes the playoffs. Can we do it again?

god knows we need all the help we can get. A suggestion-only schedule teams who no one thinks they can beat.

[QuikSand]

...and we start right off by fumbling the #2 overall draft pick. Nice. Could make the QB decision that much stickier, right?

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

...and we start right off by fumbling the #2 overall draft pick. Nice. Could make the QB decision that much stickier, right?

yeah but i don't think that QB is the way to go-Murray appears to have recovered from his injury and they have so many other holes to fill.


The cards in my view have given up way too early on good talent on their team only to see them go on and have good success elsewhere, especially on the defensive side. so they need to keep players like Budda Baker who can be difference makers.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Fresh off our GRAND SUCCESSES of recent years:

FOFC GroupThink 2022: We take over the NY Football Giants

FOFC GroupThink 2023: We take over the Detroit Lions

...we now set our sights on a goal, to, uhh, idano, what do we do down here in cactusville anyway? RED STORM RISING or something? Maybe that needs to be part of the plan, let's get some of them Mad Men in here to help us sell this turd sandwich.

yayayaya I was going to make this if someone else didn't! Love those birds! Let's make them chirp!

[JPhillips]

Marvin Harrison Jr. is the obvious dream, but he may be gone. If one of the top 2 QBs is still available I'd look for a trade partner and see how many picks I could get for next year. I'd feel pretty good having 20-22 picks over the next two drafts.

[SirFozzie]

I agree. QB isn't quite.. solved.. per se (I need to see another good year from Murray before I say he's as good as people said he was), but the team has a LOT of need. Trade down, get as many high draft picks as possible, and look to kickstart a fast rebuild with needed positions.

[QuikSand]

ok, the internal trend feels like we stick with QB Murray, but I'd like to have a clearer sense of the contract/cap implications of a trade before doing so...

Kyler Murray Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

wow, Kyler is only 26, yeah...

Well, a post-June 1 trade looks like it hits the Cards for "only" $13m a year for 24-25-26 ... that is a surprisingly team-friendly situation, in my mind.

My one vote here is still in play for the "move on from Murray and draft a QB here," FWIW. Not fully sold, but I'm not entirely in on him - and I'm not sure what we are trying to build here merits a top-tier QB salary for the 24 and 25 seasons. I'm thinking our focus is on being the obvious up-and-coming team for 2026 (thinking the 21-22-23 Lions arc).

[QuikSand]

...and a trade for Murray would yield the Cards...what, do we think? I'm guessing maybe one first round pick, or possibly something like the McCaffrey deal with more than one later picks. I don't think it's a Russ-like haul (two firsts plus players) but more like the Rodgers deal. 26, still coming off an injury but playing pretty well, but on a massive contract that would mostly be inherited.

[JPhillips]

Would you then trade up? I don't think you want the third-best QB which might be what you get picking fourth. Is Daniels an upgrade?

From a Chicago perspective, I'd love to have Arizona as a trade partner. If I can get the two firsts plus that fills a lot of holes.

[QuikSand]

I will try to think about it this way... let's say that whatever we could get for Murray would be enough to move up from our pick to 1.1 to get the top QB on our board. For now, that doesn't feel too fanciful, but maybe it's a bit optimistic. Maybe I will mentally add in a 2025 2nd as well.

But that's how I'm thinking about it, I guess.

Mentally my rankings are about here:

BEST
.
.
.
-build around top drawer rookie QB
-build around Murray on current contract
.
.
.
-fill-in at QB while we build, develop long tern QB plan later
.
.
.
WORST

[Bobble]

This is probably not needed on a sports management sim site but we have to consider salary and everything else in a Kyler Murray deal. This article from Bleacher Report suggest that Kyler's contract makes him untradeable. I don't know about all that but we might want to temper our excitement on what we might get back from a Kyler trade.

Aside: Where do we discuss what we think the Bears should do with the first pick, another first rounder, and Justin "I-don't-know-what-we-have-here" Fields? Dueling GroupThink threads?!?!?

[cartman]

Do we hire a new coach that was recently fired from his college job?

[Brian Swartz]

I would think the Justin Fields (and whatever else) could go well in the general NFL thread.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I will try to think about it this way... let's say that whatever we could get for Murray would be enough to move up from our pick to 1.1 to get the top QB on our board. For now, that doesn't feel too fanciful, but maybe it's a bit optimistic. Maybe I will mentally add in a 2025 2nd as well.

But that's how I'm thinking about it, I guess.

Mentally my rankings are about here:

BEST
.
.
.
-build around top drawer rookie QB
-build around Murray on current contract
.
.
.
-fill-in at QB while we build, develop long tern QB plan later
.
.
.
WORST

i just think there in no rookie QB that can duplicate what murray can do right now. just look at the qb's who went to carolina and houston this draft-they are a crap shoot-so I think the cards need to build around murray at this point. Go after some quality free agents and fill in with the draft.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

i just think there in no rookie QB that can duplicate what murray can do right now. just look at the qb's who went to carolina and houston this draft-they are a crap shoot-so I think the cards need to build around murray at this point. Go after some quality free agents and fill in with the draft.

Not to mention that even if the rookie QB pans out (always debatable), the first few years of his rookie deal are going to be wasted building up the rest of the roster. Cards are 9th in available cap space for next season, so there's plenty of room to build the roster out, even without moving on from Murray.

I think the play is keep Murray, build the roster out and move back where feasible to continue to accumulate future picks (except with the 4th overall pick if Harrison is still there).

[RainMaker]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't think Murray is that bad. If I'm the Cardinals, I'm going hard for MJH.

[SirFozzie]

Let's look at Murray:

154-238 (64.7% Completed), 1537 yards (6.5 avg) 9 TD, 5 INT #17 in the league in QBR.

Not super great, but not bad, especially when you consider he was working back up to live game time.

4 years left on the 5 Year deal he signed: It'd be an $81 million cap hit to drop him (pre-June 1, after June 1 it's a $48 million next year, $10 or so million the three remaining hits)

So, obviously cutting him is a non-starter.

Right now, they have #4 and #17 (Houston's) as well as Murray. You're probably not getting a first rounder back for Murray. Is it worth spending the draft capital to move up to the top 3 to get one of the QB's in this draft?

I don't think so. Instead, 2024 should be Murray's make or break year. If it's break, you're likely drafting high again anyway. If he makes it, his contract is not as much as an issue. (relatively speaking, a big name QB is going to cost AT LEAST that much).

Instead, look to improve around him. Marvin Harrison Jr, is probably the best play at #4 if available, and then top OL talent middle of the first round to protect him (remember, he's missed three games at least a year due to injury). I would also look to see if Brissett, Joe Flacco, or someone at that level to be the backup, just in case.

In the offseason, they have about $53 million in cap space, so again, let's work on building up.

[JPhillips]

If you can get Pennix with one of the third-rounders that's a nice development plan. I don't know if he'll last that long, though.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

If you can get Pennix with one of the third-rounders that's a nice development plan. I don't know if he'll last that long, though.

I'm not high on a 6th year senior that's going to be 24.5 at the start of his rookie year. He's going to get drafted way too high.

[CrimsonFox]

[albionmoonlight]

My initial feeing is keep Murray and draft the best non-QB at 4.

[albionmoonlight]

subject to change, etc.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Unless we're willing to trade up to number one or two, I don't think the the third QB overall is worth giving up on Murray and the headache of having to trade him.

I just ran two three-round mocks through PFF and Marvin Harrison JR was available both times. I don't think we can rely on that, but, as of now, it looks like the fourth pick overall will either be MHJ or tackle out of Penn State.

If we had a choice between Maye and Williams and Murray, I think it'd be a harder call.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I'm not high on a 6th year senior that's going to be 24.5 at the start of his rookie year. He's going to get drafted way too high.

I'm not high on him as a first rounder, but for a team with three third rounders and a need for a backup, I think he'd be a nice fit. I like the fact that he's older and has experience in multiple systems. He's accurate, runs progressions well, and is always calm. He'd be a nice backup with the potential to start if Murray is hurt and he wouldn't cost much.

Admittedly this probably means you start with a QB controversy and that isn't ideal.

[CrimsonFox]

Let's get the Titans former head coach in here and lead us to victory!

[QuikSand]

Overall, I'm fine daydreaming about getting MHJr but it's probably more productive to heavily consider the seemingly likely situation that pick 4 comes up with him and the top two QBs all off the board.

That puts us at the start of a new "tier" (as I see it) and that's usually a provocative place to be selecting. We get a top-graded tackle, or a pass rusher, or the next best WR, most likely. Or we deal down if there's a demand.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Let's get the Titans former head coach in here and lead us to victory!

I don't know if Gannon's the answer but I wouldn't replace him at this stage. Cards went 3-5 in their last 8 games once Murray got back. Most pre-season win projections had them as the worst team in the NFL. They played hard from the start of the season to the end. Guys not quitting says something to me about coaching.

I also look at the disaster that the Philadelphia defence was this season compared to last year and attribute at least some of that drop to Gannon's absence.

[QuikSand]

Jayden Daniels creeping into the top 2-3 slots in mock drafts is VERY good news for our Cardinals. Keep the hype machine rolling.

[JPhillips]

I just can't see MHJ getting to four, but if he's there he's the obvious pick. I think he's the most surefire prospect in the draft. He's big, fast, good hands, runs good routes, works hard, and has great pedigree. He's as close to a can't miss as comes.

Which is why I can't see him getting to four.

[GrantDawg]

All three teams in the top three need quarterbacks, and there are three top quarterbacks available. If any of those teams don't want one of those three QBs, then they can get a ransom from someone who does. Unless one of those QB's fall on their face between now and the draft, they are going one, two, three.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[JPhillips]

It may play out that way, but I'm not taking the third QB over MHJ

[GrantDawg]

So the Patriots should keep rolling out Mac Jones?

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[GrantDawg]

And if the Patriots don't want Jayden Daniels, the Falcons would happily trade up to get him. And I don't think they are the only ones.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

So the Patriots should keep rolling out Mac Jones?

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

I don't think Daniels is anywhere close to a sure thing and I'd rather get a midQB like Baker Mayfield and then get the best WR available. If you pick Daniels you're all-in with that for the next three years. It's the kind of pick that gets GMs fired. Nobody will look back and blame a GM for picking Harrison.

[QuikSand]

Back to the Cards.

QB3 stock rising is excellent for us at 4. Increasing chances of us either getting MHJr or there being a desirable QB on the board for which someone may be willing to overpay (by the book). If we feel like there's a cliff effect after MHJr then that would be a really good thing...deal down to pick 10 and pick up "one of the tackles/edges" or whatever and accumulate other capital.

[CrimsonFox]

What if they got Big V to Head Coach!

[JPhillips]

If MHJ is there, he's the pick. I like trading down as there are a number of tackles and I don't think there's much difference between WR2 and WR5.

What about 4 for MIN 11, 42, & 109? If Daniels isn't the NE pick MIN would be a good team to lure up to take him.

[albionmoonlight]

IMO, by the time the draft is here, the consensus top three picks will be QBs.

[albionmoonlight]

Kyler and MHJr running around doing Kyler and MHJr things will be a Sunday Ticket staple.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

If MHJ is there, he's the pick. I like trading down as there are a number of tackles and I don't think there's much difference between WR2 and WR5.

What about 4 for MIN 11, 42, & 109? If Daniels isn't the NE pick MIN would be a good team to lure up to take him.

I think I'm with you on both segments here. My ranked order:

Take WR Harrison and profit
Get a juicy trade-down deal for value this year or next, and take a quality guy
Take the top guy from our next tier

...and it sounds like this might be more or less consensus in the thread thus far.

[Thomkal]

Sadly the WR corps used to be one of the strongest, but now looks like one of the weakest. Guess it would depend on who fell to them at 4, and who might be willing to trade up for a QB if one of the top 3 is still available.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Do we have a good breakdown on what our team needs are?

I know WR is one and, based off PFF, OL, DL. LB and CB are, also, needs, but I don't know if its interior line, tackle, edge, interior defense, etc. It could just be all largely "all of the above".

With the raise of Jadyn Daniels and all of the picks we have in the first three rounds, a solid draft could really accelerate this rebuild. In some ways, it's not too terribly different than the Lions a few years ago. While no one (other than them) really thought they had the QB position locked up in Goff, they did and then were able to use that first draft - Sewell, McNeil, St. Brown, and others - to jump start the rebuild.

We have Murray at QB and if we hit on these early round picks, we could really be setting up something special for a while.

[QuikSand]

First question about the receiving corps, Marquise Brown is a pending free agent. I'm not in favor of pre-empting that by paying market price (or more) there, but that's potentially on the table for us as the incumbent.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

First question about the receiving corps, Marquise Brown is a pending free agent. I'm not in favor of pre-empting that by paying market price (or more) there, but that's potentially on the table for us as the incumbent.

I think I let him walk. While I really liked him coming out of college, I haven't been overly impressed by him in the NFL. With Michael Wilson coming on last year and the ability to draft MHJ, I think Brown is expendable and we can use our resources elsewhere.

We didn't trade a first round pick for him, that was the prior regime.

[CrimsonFox]

put the WR. WHo cares. There are 4 more crappy WR ready to play for nothing.

[albionmoonlight]

Looking only at his stats, he's averaging ~60 catches for ~650 yards and ~3 TDs for the Cards.

That seems very replaceable.

If he loves the desert, etc. and he's wiling to play for a team-friendly deal, then great. But assuming his assessment of his value is still based on 3 years ago, I think you let him hit the market.

[albionmoonlight]

dola: If MHJ is off the board, then having needs at CB and OT isn't the worst thing for this team b/c there seem to be some top guys at that position that could be justified at #4

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Looking only at his stats, he's averaging ~60 catches for ~650 yards and ~3 TDs for the Cards.

That seems very replaceable.

If he loves the desert, etc. and he's wiling to play for a team-friendly deal, then great. But assuming his assessment of his value is still based on 3 years ago, I think you let him hit the market.

This i agree with he really didn't show too much i think because he was injured a lot? He seems to have a bond/be friends with murray, so keeping him around if he doesn't break the bank is a possibility I guess.