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Old 11-15-2017, 11:40 PM   #151
RainMaker
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I don't know if it's mental thing for Ball but he's looking like an enormous bust considering the hype that came in with him.
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:59 PM   #152
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I don't know if it's mental thing for Ball but he's looking like an enormous bust considering the hype that came in with him.

Hes pretty much doing what many people thought he would though. Pass, rebound, and shoot poorly. Im surprised by his inconsistency.

And Simmons doing so well is making him look worse.
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Old 11-16-2017, 12:08 AM   #153
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Hes pretty much doing what many people thought he would though. Pass, rebound, and shoot poorly. Im surprised by his inconsistency.

And Simmons doing so well is making him look worse.

Shooting poorly is giving him too much credit. I can't remember seeing a shot this busted in the NBA. Like I said, maybe it's mental and things will click but he's pretty bad.
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Old 11-16-2017, 12:13 AM   #154
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He's really getting pushed around in the physical side of the NBA, almost bullied off the ball
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Old 11-16-2017, 12:22 AM   #155
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That stuff I'm not that worried about. He'll add some muscle. He'll figure out defense to an extent. But unless you can pose a bit of a threat from the outside, you aren't going to go far.
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Old 11-16-2017, 12:58 AM   #156
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The shot will come, I'm not sure the passiveness can be adjusted. You are who you are mentally
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Old 11-16-2017, 01:41 AM   #157
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I think it's a little too early to write him off - kid is officially the youngest to ever record a triple double in NBA history, and we have huge issues with Small Sample Size to this point.

I think eventually you CAN develop a shot in the NBA, and he will definitely grow a bit and add muscle, as RainMaker said. That being said, his shot really is super terrible right now, and he has a long, long way to go.
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Old 11-16-2017, 01:52 AM   #158
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The fact that established NBA players our out gunning for him thanks mostly to his douche dad doesn't help his cause, especially as he seems pretty introverted, but I still don't see anything he does better than Michael Carter-Williams did as a rook.
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Old 11-16-2017, 06:03 AM   #159
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He shoots like he's a 7 year old struggling to reach a full sized rim.
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:54 AM   #160
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Compounding this issue with his shot is the fact that it's broken on a fundamental level. He can't drive right and shoot against nba players with his current shot mechanics. That's not going to be an easy fix.

Outside of his shot I think the biggest red flag is the fact that he doesn't get to the free throw line. It's going to be nearly impossible for him to ever score efficiently getting to the line 1.6 times per game.
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:51 AM   #161
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So 10 Posts about a rookie struggling 15 games in and none about Embiid offering one of the more impressive statlines by a true Center in the last, say, 15 or so years ?

That being said, i pretty much agree about Ball being set up to fail by his weird shooting motion and other factors mentioned. And i still maintain that Rubio could be a key piece if surrounded correctly, so that's saying something
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:15 AM   #162
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So 10 Posts about a rookie struggling 15 games in and none about Embiid offering one of the more impressive statlines by a true Center in the last, say, 15 or so years ?

Simmons, Embiid, Covington is a nice big 3 to build around.

Simmons is showing that judging him by his team's record at LSU was ridiculous. He's defending, passing, scoring, and rebounding while looking like a mix between Magic and Lamar Odom at the same age. Embiid looks like a generational talent. Covington is playing like the perfect 3rd piece of a big 3.
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:19 AM   #163
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Hell of a performance last night by Embiid. Didn't know he had that in him. Fun team to watch, interesting to see if this year's playoffs will be an upending with MVP Kyrie on one side, Lebron on the other and a bunch of interesting clubs in the middle.

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I don't know if it's mental thing for Ball but he's looking like an enormous bust considering the hype that came in with him.

LOL. Damn, you folks really want that dude to be a bust.
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Old 11-16-2017, 01:44 PM   #164
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LOL. Damn, you folks really want that dude to be a bust.

This rush to judgment on all rookies is frustrating. Everyone wants to be the first to identify a rookie as the next Anthony Bennett. Ball may suck, Fultz may suck, but everyone develops at their own trajectory. Just let it play out, jeez.
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Old 11-16-2017, 03:49 PM   #165
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Thing about Embiid though is that it's not really surprising, he's a hell of a player. I hope he stays healthy because I've been enjoying watching the Sixers this year, but at the same time it feels like we're ticking down towards an inevitable 20+ game injury.
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Old 11-16-2017, 05:44 PM   #166
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Crazy that Ben Howland, of the Luc mbah a moute and Westbrook scouting success stories, took one look at Embiid and thought he didn't have an NBA future. Oh well
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Old 11-16-2017, 07:07 PM   #167
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I don't know if it's mental thing for Ball but he's looking like an enormous bust considering the hype that came in with him.
Ball's played fine so far. He'll never live up to the ESPN/Lavar/Lakers Fans hype machine, but smart people never bought into that & he's actually exceeded my expectations with defense & rebounding so far while still showing the elite court vision that makes his game so aesthetically pleasing. His biggest problems are that hype machine and the fact that picks 3,5,6,7,9,11 & a late 1st round rookie from his own team have outperformed expectations so far. But the guy has a floor as a rotation player in the NBA, which is enough for me to laugh at any Bust moniker this early.
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Simmons, Embiid, Covington is a nice big 3 to build around.

Simmons is showing that judging him by his team's record at LSU was ridiculous. He's defending, passing, scoring, and rebounding while looking like a mix between Magic and Lamar Odom at the same age. Embiid looks like a generational talent. Covington is playing like the perfect 3rd piece of a big 3.
Let's slow the roll on RoCo I like him too, but he's a solid 3&D guy who's benefiting from 2 really good players drawing attention. He's still the guy who shot below 40% from the field all 3 full seasons. It's like the Jae Crowder truthers in the offseason - both guy's benefited from floor spacing & gravity of other players, and aren't someone who will ever create offense for others.

Btw, big game tonight between the best team in the NBA & the Golden State Warriors!
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Old 11-16-2017, 07:24 PM   #168
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Ball's played fine so far. He'll never live up to the ESPN/Lavar/Lakers Fans hype machine, but smart people never bought into that & he's actually exceeded my expectations with defense & rebounding so far while still showing the elite court vision that makes his game so aesthetically pleasing. His biggest problems are that hype machine and the fact that picks 3,5,6,7,9,11 & a late 1st round rookie from his own team have outperformed expectations so far. But the guy has a floor as a rotation player in the NBA, which is enough for me to laugh at any Bust moniker this early.

I don't think his defense is good. And a guy barely shooting 30% is going to just cause more teams to pack the paint. The team is much worse with him on the court.

This could all be a bump in the road to a great career but if he can't shoot, he can't play in this league. His other skills just don't make up for it.
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:37 PM   #169
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Between The Embiid Show last night and this epic showdown tonight, this has been a great 2 nights of hoops
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:21 AM   #170
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LOL. Damn, you folks really want that dude to be a bust.

Arguably as much as any player in the history of the league. Or at least any rookie.
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:26 AM   #171
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Whose do you want to see bust worst, Rosen or Ball?
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Old 11-17-2017, 02:45 AM   #172
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Paraphrasing an EsPN comment...

Jaylen Brown played after his best friend died. When is he getting traded?
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Old 11-17-2017, 01:05 PM   #173
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Some talk that 1 and done might be over with plays being able to declare out of HS -or- having to wait 2 seasons to enter the league. Could be interesting from a D-LEAGUE perspective or whatever they call it now.
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Old 11-17-2017, 01:12 PM   #174
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Some talk that 1 and done might be over with plays being able to declare out of HS -or- having to wait 2 seasons to enter the league. Could be interesting from a D-LEAGUE perspective or whatever they call it now.

Europe as well, as getting a talented kid for a 2-year period (ideally a 3 year contract with a reasonable 3rd year buyout) makes it much more worthwhile to spend ressources developing them and helping them adjust.

I am not sure why the NBA hasn't yet closed that loophole but i kinda expect them to change the rules for the D-League as well if they take this step.
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Old 11-17-2017, 01:18 PM   #175
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Why do guys ball in 15+ year old Jordans? Seems like technology has come such a long way and the shoes of our youth were not actually that great.
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Old 11-17-2017, 02:02 PM   #176
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Why do guys ball in 15+ year old Jordans? Seems like technology has come such a long way and the shoes of our youth were not actually that great.

Nostalgia. Also, comfort. If they're broken in? Also, sneakerhead culture and people noticing what you're wearing.
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Old 11-17-2017, 02:59 PM   #177
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Whose do you want to see bust worst, Rosen or Ball?

I don't have to invest much time in worrying over whether Rosen busts.
I think that's the most likely outcome AND even if he doesn't it's in a league where he's dead to me regardless. Not my problem as it were.

While my NBA interest is still awfully limited, I at least haven't reached the "doesn't exist" stage with it yet so I have more vested in getting son-of-clown off the sports page.
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Old 11-18-2017, 07:15 PM   #178
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Sixers put up a hell of a first quarter against the Warriors.
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Old 11-18-2017, 07:41 PM   #179
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Sam Hinkie be like


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Old 11-18-2017, 08:01 PM   #180
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But, to be fair, he also be like
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Old 11-18-2017, 08:26 PM   #181
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Those second-half adjustments, damn.
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Old 11-18-2017, 10:31 PM   #182
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Nostalgia. Also, comfort. If they're broken in? Also, sneakerhead culture and people noticing what you're wearing.

I meant retro styles. Most of the classic Jordans are as old as rookie players. I just think when you can use shoes made and engineered in 2017, you shouldn't be wearing space jam Jordans even if they look cool.
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Old 11-18-2017, 10:44 PM   #183
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3rd Quarter be like:

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Old 11-19-2017, 07:26 PM   #184
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Do we have an FOFC twitter to make sharing gifs easier yet?
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Old 11-23-2017, 09:23 AM   #185
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I get why they are doing it, but I am not happy that the NBA is taking tonight off. Last night was a good night for League Pass.
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Old 11-27-2017, 04:01 PM   #186
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To go along with my post in the college football thread... HUH?

Grizzlies fire David Fizdale, name J.B. Bickerstaff interim coach
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Old 11-27-2017, 04:17 PM   #187
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To go along with my post in the college football thread... HUH?

Grizzlies fire David Fizdale, name J.B. Bickerstaff interim coach
Fizdale benched Gasol for the 4th quarter last night, said it was because the reserves had brought them back in the game and wanted to see if they could win it, but clearly there was more tension between him & Gasol & apparently he lost that power struggle
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Old 11-27-2017, 04:33 PM   #188
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Fizdale benched Gasol for the 4th quarter last night, said it was because the reserves had brought them back in the game and wanted to see if they could win it, but clearly there was more tension between him & Gasol & apparently he lost that power struggle

MARC GASOL - COACH KILLER!

The Wiki editors have jokes. I am sure it will changed soon but here is the link anyways

David Fizdale - Wikipedia

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After a 7-12 start to the 2017-18 season (including 8 consecutive losses) and a publicized fourth quarter benching of star Marc Gasol, Fizdale was fired from the team on November 27, 2017 by Gasol, who also took over the roll of GM, a la LePussy.[4]
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Old 11-28-2017, 12:30 PM   #189
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One of the more peculiar stats I've seen in a while.

NBA -- The more bricks the better for Marcus Smart and the Celtics?
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Old 11-28-2017, 09:16 PM   #190
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I'd love to see the NBA ref text chain going around tonight after Keith Fitzgerald (I think that's his name) tossed LeBron
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Old 11-28-2017, 09:50 PM   #191
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I did lol @ Kanter's tweet, circling the ref and calling him King of Cleveland.
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Old 11-30-2017, 11:37 PM   #192
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I realize Griffin's injury basically kills off what was left of any possibility of a good Clippers season, and that it makes sense that a team missing three starters is unlikely to play well, but watching right now, they're just a really bad playing team. I'm not talking talent, but as a team and just how they play. It feels like endless ISO, and when they actually decide to pass the ball around, the ball inevitably ends up in the hands of a bad outside shooter. And defensively, I see no effort. They should just trade DJ now, get more young assets and clear cap space to build around Blake and whichever rookie they can get in the draft next June. They should be able to get a top 5 pick.
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Old 12-02-2017, 12:22 AM   #193
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Maybe, but Mitchell has looked really good to me. Smooth driving to the basket, good jumper, good passer, and doesn't force things. Looked like a 2nd or 3rd year pro.

41 points today.
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Old 12-04-2017, 08:09 PM   #194
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Hard not to love the move Danny made to get Tatum.
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Old 12-04-2017, 11:13 PM   #195
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Hard not to love the move Danny made to get Tatum.

Hard not to love the move the Skins made to get RGIII (statement made 8 games into his rookie season).

FWIW, I think Tatum has been very solid so far. But we may need to wait a little longer than just under two months into his rookie season before we pass any final judgments.
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Old 12-05-2017, 01:07 PM   #196
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Hard not to love the move the Skins made to get RGIII (statement made 8 games into his rookie season).

FWIW, I think Tatum has been very solid so far. But we may need to wait a little longer than just under two months into his rookie season before we pass any final judgments.

Not sure how my statement would be interpreted as a final judgment. I guess I could've added "so far" or "at this moment" or some other qualified, but I figured that went without saying. I certainly didn't proclaim him an automatic HOF entrant.
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Old 12-05-2017, 02:10 PM   #197
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Not sure how my statement would be interpreted as a final judgment. I guess I could've added "so far" or "at this moment" or some other qualified, but I figured that went without saying. I certainly didn't proclaim him an automatic HOF entrant.

Whether it's a final judgment or not, I'm just expressing that seven weeks isn't long enough or a large enough sample size to come to one conclusion or the other.
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:50 AM   #198
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Whether it's a final judgment or not, I'm just expressing that seven weeks isn't long enough or a large enough sample size to come to one conclusion or the other.
Meh, I'm confident enough to say I was wildly wrong about Tatum, and the only question at this point is whether that turns into a huge win for Ainge or closer to a push (if Fultz develops into the player I still think he can be - though honestly I don't even know if he can get high enough usage in Philly to be that player unless Embiid/Simmons get hurt).

Tatum always had the smooth offensive game and insanely efficient 1v1 college stats, the 3 big questions were if was athletic enough to defend 3's on the perimeter at the NBA level, if he was athletic enough to get to the rim on offense, and if he could shoot 3's/would choose to shoot them over mid-range jumpers. So far the answers are yes, emphatic yes, and omg he's shooting 51% on 3's and has a massive lead on the all-time rookie leader board in 3-pt shooting, eFG%, TS%?!? link His WS/48 has dropped to a mere .198 now from .209 when this was first posted, but that still puts him 2nd on this list Jay King on Twitter: "Most win shares per 48 by any rookie 21 or younger (Tatum on pace to finish second on a POWERHOUSE list) @bball_ref https://t.co/RLZlKzLcP8" - and he's doing it while playing heavy minutes for the team with the best record in the league.

Of course there'll be some regression there (and those shooting stats are benefiting from getting spot up looks around the Kyrie/Horford P&R instead of taking many off the dribble), but he looks like a future multiple time all-star and one who is contributing positively to an NBA finals contender as a 19 year old rookie. Fultz might develop into the former as well, but he's definitely not going to be a positive rotation player this year.
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:19 PM   #199
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A player we're not allowed to make any judgments on yet is having another solid night.
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:34 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by larrymcg421 View Post
A player we're not allowed to make any judgments on yet is having another solid night.

God forbid someone give you a dissenting opinion. Let it go.
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I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.
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