Your opinion on a school issue.....

[cougarfreak]

The following scenario took place at my school today:

Varsity basketball cuts were made last night. A young man was cut for attitude, he has talent, but was cut last year as well for the same reason. He is a senior this year, and is known to be a "punk". Evidently, he went home and posted "f$#k you (coaches last name, and he posted the actual F word, not the version I posted) to his twitter. Someone brought it to the coach and our administration's attention today. Punish, or not?

[Lathum]

It is a tough one. Oart of me says let it go since he posted on a medium outside the schools influence. The other part says in the real world he could get fired for tweeting omething like that about his boss. That being said doesnt seem like discipline gets through to the kid so whats the point.

I would let his parents know and let them decide punishment.

[PurdueBrad]

Nah, I wouldn't discipline it although I teach in a school where I think they might try.

[Suburban Rhythm]

I'm of the opinion that his feelings about the coach are not a school issue. If he's on the team, and gives attitude to coach, that's a school issue.

[Blackadar]

Nope. None of the business of the school. Free speech and all that.

[stevew]

No, unless he tweeted from school property.

Especially if you don't have a policy.

[JediKooter]

1st Amendment. No way you punish him. If he used school property to post while at a school facility, then you would punish him for abusing that property, but, not for his speech.

The school punishes him, that is definitely a douchey move by the school. Now if he made threats, different story, but, you get the police involved at that point.

[DougW]

I don't find it any more respectful that he did it via a social network, than if he did it to his face. And, I think he should be punished if he said it straight to the coaches face. These days - I don't think social networks are different.

Just because the kid was a coward, and did it at his computer screen, in a lame attempt to show all the school how cool he is - doesn't give him a pass.

He needs to be taught that it isn't OK to publicly blast people, just because things didn't go his way.

I'd suspend him a few days, and be sure to communicate the situation with his parents.

[cougarfreak]

It was tweeted from home. And the student was suspended for two days. I was dumbfounded. I've coached for a long time, and I'm of the opinion, it goes with the territory (not face to face, but out in society). The coach brought it to the administration's attention. I would have cared less had it been me.

[stevew]

That's silly.

[DougW]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Nope. None of the business of the school. Free speech and all that.

Free speech doesn't exist in a school environment, nor should it. Kids are being taught to be respectful and it is flat out against school rules to say certain things. Kids can, and will get punished for what they say.

This really isn't exclusive to school. He could most certainly get in trouble for saying things in the workplace when he gets older. Some people definitely would find themselves in trouble if they went off on a fuck you rant to their boss.

Is it a stretch that he didn't do it in the school ? Maybe, but - IMO, not really. As I said, the social network is a means of communication. It's not like he whispered it in his buddies basement. He screamed it for the whole world to hear.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

The following scenario took place at my school today:

Varsity basketball cuts were made last night. A young man was cut for attitude, he has talent, but was cut last year as well for the same reason. He is a senior this year, and is known to be a "punk". Evidently, he went home and posted "f$#k you (coaches last name, and he posted the actual F word, not the version I posted) to his twitter. Someone brought it to the coach and our administration's attention today. Punish, or not?

Why is this even a question?

[RainMaker]

Nope. Seems harmless and a kid letting out his anger. Nothing threatening or else in there and it happened off school grounds.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by DougW

I don't find it any more respectful that he did it via a social network, than if he did it to his face. And, I think he should be punished if he said it straight to the coaches face. These days - I don't think social networks are different.

Just because the kid was a coward, and did it at his computer screen, in a lame attempt to show all the school how cool he is - doesn't give him a pass.

He needs to be taught that it isn't OK to publicly blast people, just because things didn't go his way.

I'd suspend him a few days, and be sure to communicate the situation with his parents.

Why on earth does that mean suspending him? You don't suspend people for unpopular views. Being a jackass is not a crime.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

It was tweeted from home. And the student was suspended for two days. I was dumbfounded. I've coached for a long time, and I'm of the opinion, it goes with the territory (not face to face, but out in society). The coach brought it to the administration's attention. I would have cared less had it been me.

Now I wonder how of the attitude is the coach being a hard ass type.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I feel he should not have been punished, but having him in for a sit-down to express his displeasure and be informed that the school takes matters associated with the relationship of students & faculty seriously enough that he should consider cooling out a bit... or face possible suspension if further actions are taken by him.

I don't think the coach made a bad move at all. Sounds like he proves time and again that he is unreliable. Not the best way to prove you don't have an attitude problem.

[DougW]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Why on earth does that mean suspending him? You don't suspend people for unpopular views. Being a jackass is not a crime.

I wouldn't suspend him for having an unpopular view.

You don't have to commit a crime to be suspended from school (or later, work).

But, you should get suspended if you looked at a faculty member and mother fucked him. And, as I said, with the popularity of the social media - I see no difference in saying it on twitter, and saying it to directly to his teacher - or coach as it may be. ESPECIALLY - since he directed his tweet square at the coach.

Remember, "FUCK YOU &%COACHES NAME%&" was the tweet.

[Izulde]

It didn't occur on school grounds or school property and is a fairly minor offense, all things considered, so not worth the punishment.

Besides which, punishing him is only going to validate his shitty attitude.

[chadritt]

Dumb kid...shouldve had his tweets set to private so the coach wouldnt see it.

[DougW]

Originally Posted by Izulde

It didn't occur on school grounds or school property

This is very interesting to me, and I spent a couple minutes thinking about this before responding.

I ended up asking myself .. Should it be punishable if the child ran just to the edge of the school property line, and grabbed a loud speaker and cussed him out in front of all the other faculty members and other kids ?

I answered myself (cuz, I roll like that) .. Yes, he should get punished for that. And, in my mind - what he did was the same.

Originally Posted by Izulde

and is a fairly minor offense, all things considered, so not worth the punishment.

Truthfully, I agree with this. But, I'm concerned with the precedent it sets. Other kids are watching. Another kid will take it a little further, and another a little further. Next we'll be hearing long rants with the cursing, racial slurs, etc.

A couple days suspension isn't going to hurt the kid, and it may nip further problems in the bud so to speak.

[stevew]

I wonder of there will be a rash of tattletales who will turn in people for posting stuff about teachers.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'd say no. He's a senior, he's months away from being able to say whatever he damned well pleases about the coach(within legal limits such as "fighting words" or slander anyway).

Unless you've got a policy about private student comments OR you're willing to police every single kid's social media, this is gonna be more trouble than it's worth.

And let's be honest, how many students have never said "F Teacher X" or similar at least once? What determines when you police that? If they say it to someone in line at Wendy's is it actionable?

[molson]

I definitely think there's some point where out-of-school speech can warrant school punishment, but here, the coach should just feel validated about his correct decision to cut this kid. I have a feeling life will be punishment enough for him.

[chadritt]

I may have missed it but public or private school? Growing up my private school had fairly specific rules about what students could and could not do off campus.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by DougW

Free speech doesn't exist in a school environment, nor should it. Kids are being taught to be respectful and it is flat out against school rules to say certain things. Kids can, and will get punished for what they say.

This really isn't exclusive to school. He could most certainly get in trouble for saying things in the workplace when he gets older. Some people definitely would find themselves in trouble if they went off on a fuck you rant to their boss.

Is it a stretch that he didn't do it in the school ? Maybe, but - IMO, not really. As I said, the social network is a means of communication. It's not like he whispered it in his buddies basement. He screamed it for the whole world to hear.

+1

[MrBug708]

If he made the team and made the comments, should he be kicked off the team? I mean, free speech and all.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by DougW

Free speech doesn't exist in a school environment, nor should it. Kids are being taught to be respectful and it is flat out against school rules to say certain things. Kids can, and will get punished for what they say.

This really isn't exclusive to school. He could most certainly get in trouble for saying things in the workplace when he gets older. Some people definitely would find themselves in trouble if they went off on a fuck you rant to their boss.

Is it a stretch that he didn't do it in the school ? Maybe, but - IMO, not really. As I said, the social network is a means of communication. It's not like he whispered it in his buddies basement. He screamed it for the whole world to hear.

Teachers have the right to go through students backpacks, something I learned the other day

[Mota]

There's a big difference between saying it to your buddies in private and saying it on Twitter.

It's open disrespect to faculty, if they let it happen then it opens the doors for the next level of abuse, perhaps even more abusive language, or even disrespect in person (since they obviously can't do anything about it).

[Ironhead]

As an institution that, along with parents, helps shape kids to become decent human beings I think the school should have taken some action. That said, suspending the kid doesn't seem like the most "teachable" course of action.

[Sun Tzu]

I don't understand why this even an issue...

1.) Kid gets cut.
2.) Kid is upset.
3.) Kid posts F word (GASP!) on the interwebs.
4.) Nothing.

[tucking fypo]

Originally Posted by molson

I definitely think there's some point where out-of-school speech can warrant school punishment, but here, the coach should just feel validated about his correct decision to cut this kid. I have a feeling life will be punishment enough for him.

Exactly how I feel on this issue. About the only rule my high school coach had was: Don't do anything that will embarrass the team or the school. That alleviated alot of problems and I respected/feared him more than anyone else outside of my parents.

But what if the coach doesn't report it to the administration and he goes on more aggressive twitter tirades against students he doesn't like?

[RendeR]

This is a complete non issue.

The kid got cut, therefore the coach has no rights to govern the kid in ANY way, let alone for something done outside the school system.

You don't want people telling you to fuck off and using your name, don't become the target of their ire. You don't like it when someone does so? tough shit, its a free country.

As for the kids attitude, the coach can relax knowing he made a decent decision to keep that attitude off his squad. If he perhaps wanted to talk to the kids parents about the tweet I don't see an issue about that but the school has absolutely NO grounds for enforcing any punishment for the tweet. If they did do something I hope the family sues the living shit out of them.

Its a school, they teach, they advocate respect and fair play in sports, they are NOT an authority for social control.

[molson]

Originally Posted by tucking fypo

But what if the coach doesn't report it to the administration and he goes on more aggressive twitter tirades against students he doesn't like?

Well, that's different, if the kids goes off on someone else and then commits an unrelated act of violence, then the victims get millions from the school system for "ignoring the warning signs." (I'm not saying the school should punish on that basis, but I'm sure there's general pressure never to let anything go for reasons of liability paranoia.)

[tarcone]

He didnt just say the F word. He said to the coach.
This is what is wrong. You allow this type of disrespect to an authority figure now with no consequences, then what happens later in life?
This is a great teachable moment. You say stupid things in public and something bad will happen.
If he had gotten written up at work, went home and tweeted F you, bosses name. And the the boss finds out, what do you think would happen? I bet he gets fired.

Now he has learned that tweeting disrespectful things to authority figures that deal with you directly everyday, is a bad idea.

He should be suspended.

Now, the coach obviously doesnt like the kid and saw an opportunity to get him. Most coaches probably would have let it roll off their backs. This guy probably went overboard. And had a bone to pick. Its not good to be vengeful in this situation.

This smacks of escalation type of situation.

[Sun Tzu]

Originally Posted by tarcone

...You allow this type of disrespect to an authority figure now with no consequences...

Oh noes! These damn punk kids nowadays. Nobody respects anything anymore!

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by DougW

Free speech doesn't exist in a school environment, nor should it. Kids are being taught to be respectful and it is flat out against school rules to say certain things. Kids can, and will get punished for what they say.

This really isn't exclusive to school. He could most certainly get in trouble for saying things in the workplace when he gets older. Some people definitely would find themselves in trouble if they went off on a fuck you rant to their boss.

Is it a stretch that he didn't do it in the school ? Maybe, but - IMO, not really. As I said, the social network is a means of communication. It's not like he whispered it in his buddies basement. He screamed it for the whole world to hear.

The kid wasn't on school, didn't use school property or do this during school time. Therefore, this isn't in a school environment. To me, this is no different than if he saw the coach at the mall and said the same thing. In that respect, IMO it's up to his parents to discipline him (and lest anyone think otherwise, my son would be severely disciplined for such an action). The school has no business doing so.

While I realize that the courts in recent times have the view that kids have zero free speech rights, that's part of the problem with this country. Too many people are interested in taking away personal rights at the expense of anyone and everyone they can take them away from. We're so hell-bent on teaching "responsibility", but we don't give people the rights that go with it.

Oh, and your comparison to a work situation is faulty. Most people are employed at will. It doesn't take any reason to terminate them.

As a parent and a citizen who believes in the 1st Amendment, I think the entire school system deserves a big fuck you.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by tarcone

He didnt just say the F word. He said to the coach.
This is what is wrong. You allow this type of disrespect to an authority figure now with no consequences, then what happens later in life?
This is a great teachable moment. You say stupid things in public and something bad will happen.
If he had gotten written up at work, went home and tweeted F you, bosses name. And the the boss finds out, what do you think would happen? I bet he gets fired.

Now he has learned that tweeting disrespectful things to authority figures that deal with you directly everyday, is a bad idea.

He should be suspended.

Now, the coach obviously doesnt like the kid and saw an opportunity to get him. Most coaches probably would have let it roll off their backs. This guy probably went overboard. And had a bone to pick. Its not good to be vengeful in this situation.

This smacks of escalation type of situation.

+1

Respect is no longer something that kids are taught to have. If one of my kids did that they would not see the light of day for quite a while.

Idiots can't even tell the difference between disrespecting someone in a position of authority and disagreeing with someone in authority. He had every right to post that he thought the coach was wrong but he didin't do that, he disrespected him in PUBLIC. Guess what kid, this is an electronic world now. FB, twitter, etc... It's all public knowledge now. If I go on FB and post F*** You (insert boss' name) I fully expect to at the very least be put on notice when I walk into work the next day. Welcome to the real world kid, you can't be a punk all your life.

[vex]

Coach sounds like he deserved the tweet. Tattle-telling on a HS kid's tweet to your superior? Wow.

[Sun Tzu]

I'm seeing a lot of folks here that subscribe to the archaic belief that anyone in a position of authority should be respected without question. Now, I'm in no way advocating F-bombs toward anyone, but saying someone absolutely must be respected just because of a position they hold career-wise goes against every logical bone in my body.

Again, I don't particularly like F-bombs, and I think most curse words are useless trash that people use when they don't have the intelligence to put what they're really feeling into words. Still, the reasoning behind some folks here saying he shouldn't have done it is just...odd to me.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

+1

Respect is no longer something that kids are taught to have. If one of my kids did that they would not see the light of day for quite a while.

Idiots can't even tell the difference between disrespecting someone in a position of authority and disagreeing with someone in authority. He had every right to post that he thought the coach was wrong but he didin't do that, he disrespected him in PUBLIC. Guess what kid, this is an electronic world now. FB, twitter, etc... It's all public knowledge now. If I go on FB and post F*** You (insert boss' name) I fully expect to at the very least be put on notice when I walk into work the next day. Welcome to the real world kid, you can't be a punk all your life.

Again work =/= school. Shitty comparison.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

+1

Respect is no longer something that kids are taught to have. If one of my kids did that they would not see the light of day for quite a while.

Idiots can't even tell the difference between disrespecting someone in a position of authority and disagreeing with someone in authority. He had every right to post that he thought the coach was wrong but he didin't do that, he disrespected him in PUBLIC. Guess what kid, this is an electronic world now. FB, twitter, etc... It's all public knowledge now. If I go on FB and post F*** You (insert boss' name) I fully expect to at the very least be put on notice when I walk into work the next day. Welcome to the real world kid, you can't be a punk all your life.

Oh christ, don't become one of thos "BACK IN MY DAY MEN WERE MEN AND WE WALKED 6 MILES UPHILL IN THE SNOW" people.

The kid was out of line, but being a jerk or being rude is not a crime; it is for his parents to enforce, not the school.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Oh christ, don't become one of thos "BACK IN MY DAY MEN WERE MEN AND WE WALKED 6 MILES UPHILL IN THE SNOW" people.

Once upon a time kids competed for the right to play sports for their school. About 2 - 3 decades ago they started asking what the school would give them in return for doing it. Now kids demand a spot and get all pissy when the school doesn't kow-tow to them.

And you're okay with this trend?

[lungs]

Behavior of kids and young adults has been a sign of the imminent collapse of civilization since the dawn of time.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Again work =/= school. Shitty comparison.

Wrong. School is teaching children to deal with real life. School is a childs job. In school children need to learn how to function in situations where you work in teams, or alone, or with people that have authority over them. Just like in the work place.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Wrong. School is teaching children to deal with real life. School is a childs job. In school children need to learn how to function in situations where you work in teams, or alone, or with people that have authority over them. Just like in the work place.

Exactly. I don't like everything my boss says or does, but if I went off about it all the time I would either lose my job or not advance very much.

You don't have to respect authority figures but you better learn to at least act like you do if you want to get somewhere.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by tarcone

He didnt just say the F word. He said to the coach.

I thought he said it in reference to the coach, not to the coach.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Once upon a time kids competed for the right to play sports for their school. About 2 - 3 decades ago they started asking what the school would give them in return for doing it. Now kids demand a spot and get all pissy when the school doesn't kow-tow to them.

And you're okay with this trend?

Do you really believe this? Seriously? Don't older people always bitch about how things were better than were younger when people were respectful? Show me real data, not "GET OF MY LAWN" type things.

[CU Tiger]

If the kid had bumped into the coach at WalMart and said, "Hey F%$^ You Coach X you cut the skilled ballzer eva" should he be suspended?

To me, the answer in both instances is no. It is not a school matter if it happens off school grounds.

[RedKingGold]

My question: Should a school punish a teacher if he or she post negative comments about a student on social media?

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

My question: Should a school punish a teacher if he or she post negative comments about a student on social media?

A search shows that at least some are.