2020 Democratic Primaries/General Election Thread

[GrantDawg]

It is just further proof that the GOP has no understanding of what is actually racist.

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[albionmoonlight]

So rumors seem to be settling on the VP being Rice or Harris.

I still like Duckworth, but the buzz really seems to be around those two.

They both fit the "do no harm" theory. Harris probably has a bit more upside and downside.

Rice seems to get under the Benghazi crowd's skin, so that might be a plus in terms of getting them riled up and turning off moderates.

Also, her son is apparently a Trump supporter, which might fit into the whole "remember when it was possible to disagree with someone politically and not want to put them in prison" narrative that Biden is pushing.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Biden: Latino community is diverse 'unlike the African American community' - POLITICO

Imagine if Trump had made that remark...

It obviously means diverse politically and that is not an untrue statement. Yes, he should have worded it better, but the context is very obvious and if Trump had said that it would have been one of the milder, more unoffensive things to come out of his mouth.

[JPhillips]

Yeah, Trump would have made it about hip-hop and mariachi bands.

[thesloppy]

I mean, I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he was talking about politics too, but he's pretty explicit that no, he's talking about actual national/racial diversity:

"We can build a new administration that reflects the full diversity of our nation. The full diversity of the Latino communities," Biden said. "Now when I mean full diversity, unlike African American community, many other communities, you're from everywhere. From Europe. From the tip of South America, all the way to our border and Mexico and in the Caribbean. And different backgrounds, different ethnicities, but all Latinos."

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I mean, I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he was talking about politics too, but he's pretty explicit that no, he's talking about actual national/racial diversity:

"We can build a new administration that reflects the full diversity of our nation. The full diversity of the Latino communities," Biden said. "Now when I mean full diversity, unlike African American community, many other communities, you're from everywhere. From Europe. From the tip of South America, all the way to our border and Mexico and in the Caribbean. And different backgrounds, different ethnicities, but all Latinos."

but how is he wrong?

African Americans are obviously, Americans. Latinos do come from all different countries and backgrounds. I fail to see how his statement is incorrect.

[ISiddiqui]

And, of course, Trump attacked Biden about denying the diversity of opinion among African-Americans. So I think his attackers as well as Biden's first statement was about diversity of opinions (and Biden even said "with notable exceptions" among AA community). The second quote is about diversity when it comes to different national cultures.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Lathum

but how is he wrong?

African Americans are obviously, Americans. Latinos do come from all different countries and backgrounds. I fail to see how his statement is incorrect.

I dunno if it's technically incorrect so much as a double standard. For example plenty of African Americans could certainly have just as much claim to an origin in 'the Carribean' as any latinos. Why is it even necessary to mention African Americans as a negative comparison?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I dunno if it's technically incorrect so much as a double standard. For example plenty of African Americans could certainly have just as much claim to an origin in 'the Carribean' as any latinos. Why is it even necessary to mention African Americans as a negative comparison?

Because so many Latinos are first or second generation and come from all sorts of political and cultural backgrounds.

For most blacks claiming Caribbean heritage, or wherever, is like me claiming Irish heritage. Do I celebrate it, sure, but it isn't really part of the fabric of who I am.

[Lathum]

dola-

I don't want to pretend like I know what blacks feel or think about their heritage, just seems like a big nothing burger and a lot of faux outrage from Trumps camp trying to drum up controversy. We will see a lot of these dirty tactics as more soundbites get edited.

[albionmoonlight]

If this is the best they got--When Biden was talking about Latino diversity, he didn't fully account for the fact that some African Americans came to America via the Caribbean--then they really better hope that the Russians have better dirt, because that's a very weak and weird attack.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by Lathum

African Americans are obviously, Americans.

As are Latino Americans.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

So rumors seem to be settling on the VP being Rice or Harris.

I still like Duckworth, but the buzz really seems to be around those two.

They both fit the "do no harm" theory. Harris probably has a bit more upside and downside.

Rice seems to get under the Benghazi crowd's skin, so that might be a plus in terms of getting them riled up and turning off moderates.

Also, her son is apparently a Trump supporter, which might fit into the whole "remember when it was possible to disagree with someone politically and not want to put them in prison" narrative that Biden is pushing.

Progressives alarmed by Rice's vast financial investments

I wonder how much Kamala Harris paid to have this article written

[Thomkal]

I think given the Kanye West factor, its more and more likely Biden will go with an African American. I still like Harris the best given her experience in Congress.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

As are Latino Americans.

You must not have much exposure to Latinos if you can't see they retain their heritage fiercely even if they are American citizens. Maybe you haven't been paying attention but that tends to get under the skin of most conservatives who don't like that they aren't willing to assimilate.

[PilotMan]

As down on Biden as I am, I will be even more depressed if he doesn't pick Harris as his running mate.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

I think given the Kanye West factor...

In a sane country you'd never hear this phrase in politics.

[Carman Bulldog]

I'm no expert on race, but I would think a first generation African-American from Nigeria would be culturally diverse when compared to an African-American from the Caribbean, South America, Central America, someone with a long family history in the United States or even from elsewhere in Africa, such as Ethiopia, Somalia, Kenya, etc.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

In a sane country you'd never hear this phrase in politics.

Sadly we are far from sane at the moment

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

I'm no expert on race, but I would think a first generation African-American from Nigeria would be culturally diverse when compared to an African-American from the Caribbean, South America, Central America, someone with a long family history in the United States or even from elsewhere in Africa, such as Ethiopia, Somalia, Kenya, etc.

Don't most African-American's with family histories from the Caribbean, South America, etc, still have roots from Africa? The slave trade had roots everywhere.

[thesloppy]

Not much different from how practically all Latino cultures have common roots in Spanish colonialism.

[GrantDawg]

Trump is destroying our democracy, but let's talk more about whether African Americans are as diverse as Hispanics. That really important as Rome burns.

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[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Trump is destroying our democracy, but let's talk more about whether African Americans are as diverse as Hispanics. That really important as Rome burns.

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Tell it to Joe

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Trump is destroying our democracy, but let's talk more about whether African Americans are as diverse as Hispanics. That really important as Rome burns.

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Well then, obviously the best thing to do is replace a 74-year-old (intentionally) bigoted white guy with a 77-year-old (innocently) bigoted white guy.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Trump is destroying our democracy, but let's talk more about whether African Americans are as diverse as Hispanics. That really important as Rome burns.

Yup. It's almost as if people don't give two shits about democracy as long as it's their guy in charge.

SI

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

Well then, obviously the best thing to do is replace a 74-year-old (intentionally) bigoted white guy with a 77-year-old (innocently) bigoted white guy.

There is so much nonsense in that statement, it is astounding. "Let's equate the guy who is actively supporting white supremacy with the guy who if we pull a statement out of context, super analyze it, and become completely tone deaf to any other explanation, might be mistaken by a hand full of people (many of whom has agreed with racist statements in the past) as racist."

[GrantDawg]

"I would have voted against Trump, but Biden once ate at a Chick-fil-a. He must be a just as much a pro-life bigot as Trump, so might as well vote for the guy that cut my taxes by ten cents."

[thesloppy]

I think this is succinct.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

There is so much nonsense in that statement, it is astounding. "Let's equate the guy who is actively supporting white supremacy with the guy who if we pull a statement out of context, super analyze it, and become completely tone deaf to any other explanation, might be mistaken by a hand full of people (many of whom has agreed with racist statements in the past) as racist."

So in a country of 331 million people, the best that the Democrats could come up with to replace Trump was Biden?

Also, feel free to treat it as a one-off out-of-context, overly analyzed statement while ignoring the comments Biden made to Charlamagne tha God and Errol Barnett. Not to mention his failure to recognize any previous President besides Trump as racist.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

So in a country of 331 million people, the best that the Democrats could come up with to replace Trump was Biden?

I remember my mom saying almost the exact same thing about Trump.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I remember my mom saying almost the exact same thing about Trump.

And how did that turn out for your country?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

So in a country of 331 million people, the best that the Democrats could come up with to replace Trump was Biden?
.

I think the better way to phrase this is the safest bet to be able to replace Trump is Biden.

And this same country of 331 million people somehow thought Trump was the best option the republicans could offer in 2016. Which to a lot of people meant best option to tear down the things Obama built that they didn't like because, well, it was Obama.

[JPhillips]

Go win an election. Biden didn't cheat, he just got more votes.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

And how did that turn out for your country?

It drives me to vote 3rd party

[albionmoonlight]

Apparently a video surfaced of Karen Bass praising Scientology. Since her best claim to getting the VP nod was the fact that she was hard to attack, I think she’s pretty much out of the running :-)

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Apparently a video surfaced of Karen Bass praising Scientology. Since her best claim to getting the VP nod was the fact that she was hard to attack, I think she’s pretty much out of the running :-)

Yeah, she spoke at a Scientology funeral, a communist funeral, and said the death of Fidel Castro was a great loss. She's an easy target.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

There is so much nonsense in that statement, it is astounding. "Let's equate the guy who is actively supporting white supremacy with the guy who if we pull a statement out of context, super analyze it, and become completely tone deaf to any other explanation, might be mistaken by a hand full of people (many of whom has agreed with racist statements in the past) as racist."

Except this isn't about statements out of context or super-analyzed. This is about Biden's train of thought.

This is thoughts about Obama:

Originally Posted by Joe Biden

I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy, I mean, that's a storybook, man.

[RainMaker]

People keep talking about Biden making gaffes but he is running against a guy who brought up injecting bleach into the body. I feel like anything short of a racial slur is going to be tough to top that.

[Brian Swartz]

It's not about being worse than Trump though with that stuff. It's about whether or not there not being as clear a distinction between the candidates as there would be if Biden said fewer stupid things. That lends itself to 'both candidates say stupid things, so I'll go with the guy I agree with more'.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

It's not about being worse than Trump though with that stuff. It's about whether or not there not being as clear a distinction between the candidates as there would be if Biden said fewer stupid things. That lends itself to 'both candidates say stupid things, so I'll go with the guy I agree with more'.

Versus, "this guy says stupid things, so I am going to vote for the guy I disagree with?"

"I wouldn't have voted for the narcissistic sociopath, but the other sometimes says something wrong."

[Brian Swartz]

No, the point is that the fewer distinctions there are between the candidates, the more likely someone persuadable is to decide it doesn't matter which one they choose. That's why it matters whether not saying stupid things is on the ballot, whether integrity & statesmanship are on the ballot, whether anything other than consistent demagoguery and negativity are on the ballot, etc. The fewer distinctions there are, the more reasons a prospective voter has to hang their hat on and vote Trump anyway.

I know people personally who listened to the Democratic primary debates and thought that most of the candidates were insane (and the couple that weren't, didn't win). I don't know how many Americans there are, but there are definitely some that need to be persuaded Biden isn't as crazy as Trump. It matters how effectively he presents himself for those people.

[GrantDawg]

"I know the other guy wants to kill all brown people, but they both said the hated "Die Hard", so they are essentially the same."

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

No, the point is that the fewer distinctions there are between the candidates, the more likely someone persuadable is to decide it doesn't matter which one they choose. That's why it matters whether not saying stupid things is on the ballot, whether integrity & statesmanship are on the ballot, whether anything other than consistent demagoguery and negativity are on the ballot, etc. The fewer distinctions there are, the more reasons a prospective voter has to hang their hat on and vote Trump anyway.

If you think that the fact they both make gaffes makes them the same, then you aren't paying attention.

[Brian Swartz]

I didn't say it made them the same. I said it made them more similar than if Biden wasn't gaffe-prone. There's nuance there.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I didn't say it made them the same. I said it made them more similar than if Biden wasn't gaffe-prone. There's nuance there.

But then there is that huge bolder over there that makes them totally different. One says things that might be construed as racist, one openly courts the KKK. Not. The. Same.

[sterlingice]

"But her emails" and "deplorables". You know, because that's the same or worse than being caught on camera saying you like to sexually assault women, or calling immigrants racists and thieves, or any number of anything things Trump said on the campaign trail.

I get that one could make the argument that there's a difference without a distinction if say, both were the "old fashioned racist grandpa" types, where they're clearly the product of an older generation with antiquated beliefs. But Trump has a neo-Nazi as one of his closest advisors, his racist past is well documented, and, most importantly, his go to tool for firing up his base is stoking racist division. Anyone not seeing the stark difference is being willfully ignorant, at best, or, more likely maliciously false equivalencing.

Forget it, Dawg, it's Chinatown.

SI

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

The fewer distinctions there are, the more reasons a prospective voter has to hang their hat on and vote Trump anyway.

These people are looking for a reason to vote Trump and would find it one way or the other. They just are trying to make themselves feel better about it by weak means of justification. That way they can tell themselves and anyone else they just had to vote for trump even though they really didn't want to...

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I know people personally who listened to the Democratic primary debates and thought that most of the candidates were insane (and the couple that weren't, didn't win).

"the couple that weren't"? If Buttigieg and Klobuchar - they are just as moderate as Biden. If Yang? He's more to the left than Biden.

We're talking Joe Biden here. There is a reason the left isn't not enamored of the choice.

[JPhillips]

If a person thinks Biden is insane, they simply won't ever for for a Dem. There's no point in wasting any energy trying to appease them.

[molson]

What happened to Joe Biden's reputation? When did he become a "there's 330 million people in the U.S. and they nominate this guy?" kind of candidate? He was much more respected until this presidential run. He was one of the more popular and well-respected Senators for years and years. Everybody liked him. Overcame personal tragedy. Career public servant- didn't really become rich until he was VP. Extensive experience in foreign affairs on the Foreign Relations Committee. Oversaw the development of important legislation. A leader in Congress. Never really challenged in an election. Was considered a very strong VP choice for a young candidate like Obama. Not many people have a better resume than him for president.

He makes some gaffes here and there. He speaks his mind sometimes and doesn't use filters. I don't know if that will make him a less-capable president.