2020 Democratic Primaries/General Election Thread

[JPhillips]

I look at the example of Bush and his two big crises. After 9/11, even though it was clear he should have given more credence to warnings, he showed he understood the magnitude of the crisis and shared in the national mourning. His approval ratings shot up. After Katrina, even though he had no bearing on the course or magnitude of the devastation, he failed to show the nation that he understood the magnitude of the problem and seemed not to care about the suffering in New Orleans. His approval took a dive.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Cuomo is showing just how easy it is to be popular in a crisis. What he's been good at is sharing information and speaking with compassion about those afflicted. Objectively the numbers in NY are bad, but a lot of people will give a leader the benefit of the doubt if it appears that they understand the crisis and are moved by the suffering.

A theoretical President Pence, doing everything the same except his public announcements, would have a +60% approval rating.

I am reminded of Nikki Haley during the "thousand year flood" crisis in SC. At one point she had over 75% approval among SC Democrats during that time, near 100% for Republicans. And all she did was hold daily briefings that I'd think any decent politician could have held.

[Lathum]

Most people just want someone to come on the TV, tell them it is going to be OK, here is what we are working on, here is an update regarding what has happened ( death tolls, number of inflicted, etc...) take some questions and actually give a coherent answer.

Trump does none of this. Even my father in law, who is a hard core republican, laughs at him.

[GrantDawg]

https://medium.com/@eddiekrassenstei...n-e276cac68a2b

[ISiddiqui]

Reade now claims she never filled a direct complaint alleging harassment or sexual assault, after Biden calls for the release of all complaints, even though she previously said she did.

https://twitter.com/marykbruce/statu...235027968?s=19

And apparently canceled a scheduled interview on Fox News tomorrow morning.

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[Edward64]

Rooting for you Joe. I can believe you got too touchy and feely but just don't think finger penetration is your style.

Unless there is more or others coming forth, I think there is enough legit doubt and you should be able to get past this.

https://apnews.com/aec7beb03e9e0e0e6e3c58111293e0ea

Tara Reade, the former Senate staffer who alleges Joe Biden sexually assaulted her 27 years ago, says she filed a limited report with a congressional personnel office that did not explicitly accuse him of sexual assault or harassment.

“I remember talking about him wanting me to serve drinks because he liked my legs and thought I was pretty and it made me uncomfortable,” Reade said in an interview Friday with The Associated Press. “I know that I was too scared to write about the sexual assault.”

Reade said she described her issues with Biden but “the main word I used — and I know I didn’t use sexual harassment — I used ‘uncomfortable.’ And I remember ‘retaliation.’”

Reade described the report after the AP discovered additional transcripts and notes from its interviews with Reade last year in which she says she “chickened out” after going to the Senate personnel office. The AP interviewed Reade in 2019 after she accused Biden of uncomfortable and inappropriate touching. She did not raise allegations of sexual assault against Biden until this year, around the time he became the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee.

The existence of the Senate report has become a key element of the accusations against Biden, which he has flatly denied. Reade says she doesn’t have a copy of the report, and Biden said Friday that he is not aware that any complaint against him exists. He asked the Senate and the National Archives to search their records to try to locate a complaint from Reade.

[bronconick]

Tea Partier Christner O'Donnell, best known for running an ad that she's not a witch while she ran for Biden's seat had her then 14 year-old niece claim that Biden complimented her breasts at a Delaware dinner in 2008. Problem- Biden was sick and only appeared at event via video. Sasha Peleznik, the ABC reporter that didn't bother to check her work is busily deleting tweets

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Tea Partier Christner O'Donnell, best known for running an ad that she's not a witch while she ran for Biden's seat had her then 14 year-old niece claim that Biden complimented her breasts at a Delaware dinner in 2008. Problem- Biden was sick and only appeared at event via video. Sasha Peleznik, the ABC reporter that didn't bother to check her work is busily deleting tweets

The details below, hints at it being dubious. I guess O'Donnell is crossed off the VP list. I sure hope there aren't more that are more legit because Joe is not going to be able to survive it/them as well as Trump.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/eva...den-tara-reade

[Lathum]

Insanely irresponsible for them to run that story with that headline considering he may not have been at the event. I hope he sues them if it turns out he wasn't there.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Insanely irresponsible for them to run that story with that headline considering he may not have been at the event. I hope he sues them if it turns out he wasn't there.

pic.twitter.com/Wo7lHvsBwh

— Australopithecus Boisei (@KwachSt) May 3, 2020

pic.twitter.com/Ml8esqpZTG

— CJ (@hypergeekstwin) May 3, 2020

Reporter deleted the originals. It's crap.

[Galaril]

Oh man Justin Amash running as a 3rd Party Libertarian .....great news for Trump I guess (SMH)

[JPhillips]

There were six on the record "witnesses" to the Biden story and all of them were lying. This campaign is going to be soooo awful

[Jas_lov]

It's hard to know what's true and what's not anymore. Makes it harder for women to be believed in the future. Unless something more substantial comes out I'm voting for Biden because Trump is just so awful. I hope Amash doesn't run. He has no path to win and would just play spoiler, which we've learned in 2000 and 2016 can have disastrous consequences.

[cuervo72]

This is kind of like Trump's ethos, right? He accuses people of doing what he has or would do.

So the women who claim you can't believe other women who make claims because they could make false accusations...are exactly the types who would make false accusations.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

This is kind of like Trump's ethos, right? He accuses people of doing what he has or would do.

So the women who claim you can't believe other women who make claims because they could make false accusations...are exactly the types who would make false accusations.

If it wasn't Trump doing this, but, say, another candidate, you could almost see like some twisted GOP plot to try and blunt the #MeToo movement. Basically, build an even more cynical barrier around the public about sexual harassment claims.

But with him, all things have to have some sort of Trump Test applied. Is it plausible that this a petty, narcissistic thing that Trump has lied to get out of and thus has slow, flabby political muscle memory of? If so, that's what this sad, uncreative man will try to pin on someone else.

SI

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

There were six on the record "witnesses" to the Biden story and all of them were lying. This campaign is going to be soooo awful

I think only O'Donnell said she was there when Joe allegedly said that to the niece. The other witnesses said O'Donnell/niece told them the story long before this accusation became public.

[JPhillips]

And they are all lying because the event didn't happen. They weren't told years ago about an event that didn't happen and then they all decided to keep quiet.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

And they are all lying because the event didn't happen. They weren't told years ago about an event that didn't happen and then they all decided to keep quiet.

Let's say there is O'Donnell + niece and they told +6. The +6 is just relaying what O'Donnell + niece told them (e.g. I am unaware if they said they were at the event and overheard firsthand).

Are the +6 lying?

[JPhillips]

It's the long before part that makes it clear they are lying. Nobody told them long before because this event never happened.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

It's the long before part that makes it clear they are lying. Nobody told them long before because this event never happened.

Don't get me wrong, I'm rooting for Biden. All I am saying is the +6 should not be called liars because they are corroborating what O'Donnell and niece told them, they aren't saying they were there, saw/heard it.

According to the foxnews link I posted above, they were told "a long time ago" by the 2.

But several friends of Murry, as well as her older sister, told Law&Crime that they were told about Biden's remarks at the time or within a few years of the 2008 event.

Aileen Callaghan, another friend who was quoted in the Law&Crime article saying Murry told her about the encounter a decade ago, told Fox News that the reporting in the piece was “accurate” and declined further comment.

I'm not sure who your +6 are, but I had assumed (but perhaps mistakenly) your +6 were these from the 2 above quotes.

[Lathum]

Edward. I’m confused. Biden wasn’t at the event and the reporter has tweeted basically saying she was wrong.

[GrantDawg]

I think what he was saying is it is possible the 6 weren't lying,. They were told the story, but the story was a lie. In other words they were lied to.

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[Lathum]

Ok. Got it.

[Flasch186]

@edward

But if it didn’t happen at all and is just the first false tripping stone they put out, and you tripped on it, Will you apologize and be more wary/less susceptible to the lies and falsehoods that are going to be used to rile you up? Or will you be so easily swift boated every time?

Such is the state of America as the war on facts continues unabated and the Turkish, I mean American administration, continues to undermine the fabric that holds the democratic processes together on the way to Erdogans dictatorship.


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[Edward64]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I think what he was saying is it is possible the 6 weren't lying,. They were told the story, but the story was a lie. In other words they were lied to.

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Thanks. That is what I'm saying re: the +6 (assuming they are the ones from the foxnews article I quoted).

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

But if it didn’t happen at all and is just the first false tripping stone they put out, and you tripped on it, Will you apologize and be more wary/less susceptible to the lies and falsehoods that are going to be used to rile you up? Or will you be so easily swift boated every time?

The +6 are friends with O'Donnell. My guess is O'Donnell is trying to explain it away by saying she mis-remembered and that it was a different event ... but it *did* happen. Friends being friends, some of the +6 will likely be sympathetic and probably not condemn as quickly and give her the benefit of doubt.

But yeah, if it was me as one of the 6, I would distance myself from her.

[Kodos]

Plus, she is a witch.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Edward64

The +6 are friends with O'Donnell. My guess is O'Donnell is trying to explain it away by saying she mis-remembered and that it was a different event ... but it *did* happen. Friends being friends, some of the +6 will likely be sympathetic and probably not condemn as quickly and give her the benefit of doubt.

But yeah, if it was me as one of the 6, I would distance myself from her.

It is not credible that anyone was told this lie a long time ago. If they weren't told this a long time ago, then they are lying now. I'd buy that they believed her when she told them recently, and so they agreed to say they heard it a long time ago to bolster the credibility. That's the best case scenario, but it still makes them liars.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Plus, she is a witch.

Does she weigh the same as a duck?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

It is not credible that anyone was told this lie a long time ago. If they weren't told this a long time ago, then they are lying now. I'd buy that they believed her when she told them recently, and so they agreed to say they heard it a long time ago to bolster the credibility. That's the best case scenario, but it still makes them liars.

You're skeptical that she was so forward thinking as to tell a lie to a bunch of people 20 years ago or whenever it was and maintain the same group of friends for those 20+ years just in case Biden was ever running for President?

SI

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Does she weigh the same as a duck?

Let's not be discriminatory against witches (and warlocks, druids, bandruid etc.).

Elizabeth Montgomery (aka Sam) was one of my first crushes.

[Flasch186]

So Edward will you be so easily caught up in the next one or will you hold off until they have Biden on audiotape saying he likes to grab them by the P*$$&?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

So Edward will you be so easily caught up in the next one or will you hold off until they have Biden on audiotape saying he likes to grab them by the P*$$&?

Uh no?

With your statement, I'll have to assume you misunderstand my position. Feel free to spend time to read my responses to the Reade and O'Donnell accusations (starting from #3073) in the past 2-3 pages.

[albionmoonlight]

Apparently there's a conspiracy theory out there that Andrew Yang and Pete Buttigieg are busy creating a shadow government that will end up taking over when COVID-19 causes the system to fully break down.

As conspiracy theories go, I find this one strangely comforting.

[ISiddiqui]

MATH-ocracy?

Buttigieg is apparently trying out the Lex Luthor thing by getting a buzzcut (probably done by his husband). Spoiler: it looks TERRIBLE.

[Edward64]

I'm okay with Harris or Klobuchar but prefer not Warren.

Biden needs to find the right time to re-start the momentum again ... and he better have crisp answers for any Hunter or Reade allegations.

Kamala emerges as early Biden VP favorite as sting of debate attack fades - POLITICO

Kamala Harris was written off as a possible vice presidential pick for Joe Biden last year after a cutting debate performance where she seemed to suggest he was racially insensitive.

Now, Harris is not only in top contention, but Biden aides, surrogates and major donors see her as the best fit at the onset of the process — at least on paper — to join him atop the Democratic ticket.

Biden’s campaign has formally started vetting a group of prospects that includes roughly a dozen women. But in interviews, more than two dozen Democrats, including advisers, allies and donors aligned with Biden, returned to Harris as an early frontrunner. Sen. Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, the favorite among progressives, was also seen as rising above the pack.

[ISiddiqui]

Biden wrote an op-ed in the Washington Post about Trump's failure on the Covid 19 response:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...onavirus-op-ed

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[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Biden needs to find the right time to re-start the momentum again ... and he better have crisp answers for any Hunter or Reade allegations.

They like it. I didn't do it but if I did, and I'm not saying I did because... look at her. But if I did grab her by the P***y I'm certain she would enjoy it because. Hands, look at my hands and fingers. Right? Now I'm not going to do that I wouldn't do that because I'm powerful and don't need to but if I did she would want it. They all do.

** Something like that?

[Kodos]

Worked for OJ.

[albionmoonlight]

If you look at the Hunter and Reade allegations, they were designed not to really hurt Biden, but to shore up Trump.

Trump assaulted multiple women. Trump is corrupt and beholden to foreign governments. Trump seems confused most of the time.

But, now, when people try to point these things out, the Trump Campaign/Fox News/Russian TwitterBot Alliance will throw out "But Hunter Biden" and "But Tara Reade" and "But Biden misspeaking in that debate that time" and make the whole thing seem confusing and messy and what is truth really?

They are not trying to take down Biden. They are trying to blunt Trump's weaknesses.

(It isn't helping them that Trump is so horribly mismanaging the pandemic b/c there is not (that I can see at this point) a Biden equivalent to just being really shitty at running things).

[Flasch186]

The Double standard is incredible. I'm not saying we should all be as base as the Donald but why the F would we need Biden to say any more than, "I didn't do it." when The D literally admitted to it and wrote checks to hide affairs?

Kavanaugh was able to simply say I didn't do it.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

If you look at the Hunter and Reade allegations, they were designed not to really hurt Biden, but to shore up Trump.

Trump assaulted multiple women. Trump is corrupt and beholden to foreign governments. Trump seems confused most of the time.

But, now, when people try to point these things out, the Trump Campaign/Fox News/Russian TwitterBot Alliance will throw out "But Hunter Biden" and "But Tara Reade" and "But Biden misspeaking in that debate that time" and make the whole thing seem confusing and messy and what is truth really?

They are not trying to take down Biden. They are trying to blunt Trump's weaknesses.

(It isn't helping them that Trump is so horribly mismanaging the pandemic b/c there is not (that I can see at this point) a Biden equivalent to just being really shitty at running things).

Trump's campaign manager said months ago that their gameplan for managing Trump's unpopularity is to try to make whoever the Dem candidate is just as unpopular. It appears the plan is to run with Reade and Hunter as background scandals on Biden while hammering him as weak on China.

From his latest campaign email:

I’m excited to share with you that my team has purchased a $10 MILLION ad buy that will be $10 MILLION worth of FACTS that finally expose everything Sleepy Joe is trying to cover up:

He called my very necessary travel bans xenophobic
He supported trade deals with China that destroyed American jobs
He gave China Most-Favored Nation status
Joe Biden is China’s DREAM candidate

We already know the Fake News media will do everything they can to ensure our ads never see the light of day, and that’s why I’m calling on YOU to step up and make sure we have the resources to FIGHT BACK.

[JPhillips]

I just don't think China brings any voters to Trump. It shores up 1/3 or so of the electorate, but that won't be enough.

[PilotMan]

Not at all. Especially when it was a republican president and administration who gave China MVN.

[ISiddiqui]

I actually saw a YouTube ad from Trump running a version of the lefty claim that Biden wanted to cut Social Security. I guess he's counting on people not paying attention when Trump wanted to cut entitlement programs.

[JPhillips]

Dems too often forget that the 2010 mid-term bloodbath was largely driven by attacks on Obama because he was going to take away Medicare. I don't think it works in 2020 with SS, but it's a tried and true play.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I just don't think China brings any voters to Trump. It shores up 1/3 or so of the electorate, but that won't be enough.

That's more or less the corner the campaign has backed itself into. What do they have that brings in new voters without alienating the base?

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I guess he's counting on people not paying attention

In fairness, every politician does this.

The sorts of people like us who post in this thread more than we talk to our family members are a small number--hyper aware and unpersuadable. You aren't really gaining anything as a politician by talking to us.

You win elections by persuading and motivating to vote people who wouldn't recognize a picture of Mike Pence or Kamala Harris and only start to pay attention in mid-October.

[JPhillips]

Since 2016 I've thought Trump needed to increase his voters. His base was older, so some of them have died, and it's almost impossible for him to thread the needle like he did last time.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Since 2016 I've thought Trump needed to increase his voters. His base was older, so some of them have died, and it's almost impossible for him to thread the needle like he did last time.

That's why you work the voter suppression angle, instead

SI