POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[Ksyrup]

Well, he and his people repeatedly said he wouldn't, and he made a big show of how we should respect the legal system and let it run its course, in contrast to Trump. It's such bullshit. He just made Trump's case for him.

It doesn't matter anymore, of course. But this will be all the justification anyone needs to continue "both sides"-ing everything that happens, with a perfect example.I don't care how minor the crime was. Fucking pay for your crime. If it's minor enough, your setencing will reflect it.

Just awful.

[JPhillips]

I mostly agree with Ksyrup, but I don't think this makes any difference in terms of what Trump will do. Hard to imagine a situation where Trump would think, I shouldn't do this because Biden didn't pardon Hunter.

[Ksyrup]

No, I agree, but it provides justifiication for what he's about to do. Dems spent 8 years talking about how Trump is a threat for many reasons - including ignoring the rule of law - and then Biden does this shit.

[RainMaker]

No one is above the law.

— Joe Biden (@JoeBiden) May 31, 2024

[GrantDawg]

https://theonion.com/feds-wistfully-...on-1850556827/

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[JPhillips]

Love to see some Dems push for an amendment to end pardoning. It's one of the most abused powers and too much like a king. They could pretty quickly and smartly turn this around.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

No, I agree, but it provides justifiication for what he's about to do. Dems spent 8 years talking about how Trump is a threat for many reasons - including ignoring the rule of law - and then Biden does this shit.

Justification for whe?

MAGA wouldn't care either was and anyone else with a brain will realize it's a false equivalency.

[Young Drachma]

Yeah what's good for the goose, etc., we've dispensed with norms a long time ago. Now we know why they orchestrated the whole inviting him to the White House thing, this was always the long play either way.

[larrymcg421]

I teach AP Gov and my kids are working on an Amendment project. One of the groups is working on a pardon reform proposal. I worked with them through this, and suggested a 2/3 reversal from Congress similar to veto overrides. This means the pardon power would have to be delayed (like 30 days or something), but I think it has some merit.

[JPhillips]

It's just crazy dangerous now that the President is above the law. Being for reform or abolition of this should be a pretty easy position for Dems to take.

[larrymcg421]

My kids are usually pretty stunned that this is a power without a formal check on it. And the main informal check (that it will hurt the party/politician later) just doesn't really work anymore. The Hunter Biden pardon will not be a topic in the 2026 midterms.

Still, I think abolition goes too far. There is a good reason for the pardon power to exist, but it definitely needs limitations.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Justification for whe?

MAGA wouldn't care either was and anyone else with a brain will realize it's a false equivalency.

For everyone other than MAGA, actually. That's the problem. They spent 8 years arguing against normalizing his behavior, and then when push comes to shove, they emulate his behavior.

[JPhillips]

Dems should impeach Biden.

This is a big opportunity if they have the stones to take it.

[Danny]

I agree, Biden can eat dicks. Terrible response to the ward, cost any chance of beating Trump and then this.

[RainMaker]

There are things he should be impeached over but the pardon is perfectly legal even if it is morally repugnant. A final fuck you to the country from him and all the liberals who supported him. Well done.

[Kodos]

What a shithead. Way to further sully your legacy.

[MillionsDollarsManz]

Wow, all the pearl clutching from the Karens.



Maybe if Hunter Biden had stormed the capitol to keep Trump in power, or maybe if he was related to the rich and powerful daughter of a president, or maybe if he was a homeless looking scumbag that defrauded his own supporters, or if he was a Russian plant (a bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee found Manafort’s role as Trump’s campaign chairman along with his ties to people affiliated with Russian intelligence services)....


The point is Trump has already destroyed all norms associated with pardons. For every Hunter Biden pardon there is 10 scumbags that trump pardoned and there will be 20 future scumbags that trump will pardon. Trump is installing scumbags as leaders of the FBI and CIA, who will do exactly what he said happened to him. Anyone with a brain knows that it's just a pathetic criminal playing the victim. You idiots keep falling for it.



You idiots keep electing a criminal. This criminal will destroy democracy for his own gain.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Dems should impeach Biden.

This is a big opportunity if they have the stones to take it.

That's a bit extreme. Biden pardoning his son really isn't against "norms." I agree that he shouldn't have done it after claiming ge wouldn't, it is far from impeachable.

Stolen from Bluessky:

Jimmy Carter pardoned his brother Billy Carter who took over $200,000 from Libya as its foreign agent.
George H.W. Bush pardoned his son Neil Bush for his role in the S&L scandals of the 1980s.
Nobody thinks those pardons defined either presidency. Joe Biden's pardon of Hunter Biden won't either.

[JPhillips]

I just think it's smart politically and comes with no cost. It breaks from Biden and forces the GOP to fold on actually doing anything about corruption.

I don't expect Dems to do it, but this is the kind of hard ball they need to play procedurally.

[RainMaker]

Jimmy Carter pardoned Jefferson Davis which is so fucking weird.

[Ksyrup]

Carter and Bush weren't running against an ex-President felon who made flaunting the rule of law and promising to pardon convicted felons a key campaign plank. And they didn't explicitly promise (to my knowledge or memory) not to pardon their relatives or make a major theme of their campaign that "no one is above the law."

Biden should have just released a video saying, "Fuck it, why try anymore? You voted for a felon who's pardoned people for money/loyalty and is going to pardon a bunch of criminals, so I'm taking care of my own while I can."

[GrantDawg]

Well, Jefferson Davis was a cross-dresser, so that was just Uncle Jimmy being "woke."

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[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Biden should have just released a video saying, "Fuck it, why try anymore? You voted for a felon who's pardoned people for money/loyalty and is going to pardon a bunch of criminals, so I'm taking care of my own while I can."

I know you were joking but I honestly think he should have done this. Democrats could do with a lot more plain talking.

Plus, over half the voting public is clearly OK with the president being above the law, so why the big fuss?

[RainMaker]

I mean Biden has been breaking the law repeatedly by giving weapons to Israel. His crimes are far worse than Trump's at this point.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I know you were joking but I honestly think he should have done this. Democrats could do with a lot more plain talking.

Plus, over half the voting public is clearly OK with the president being above the law, so why the big fuss?

Yep, I would have respected him more if he just came out and said this. Maybe added something to address the fact that he repeatedly said he wasn't going to pardon him.

"As far as the lies, well, I just rolled the dice that Harris would win because then she would have pardoned him for me."

[RainMaker]

Can't figure out how these fucking idiots lost.

This is horrifying news and a terrible loss for the business and health care community in Minnesota.

Minnesota is sending our prayers to Brian’s family and the UnitedHealthcare team. https://t.co/6lAL2lJXzn

— Governor Tim Walz (@GovTimWalz) December 4, 2024

[Ksyrup]

That murder is interesting. The police disclosed that the shell casings had the words "deny," "defend" and "depose" on them. That suggests to me someone who had a claim dispute with UHC and probably ended up saddled with a huge medical bill or lost someone to whatever the health issue was. The wife said he had mentioned threats recently, although she didn't seem to know too much about them (which is either odd or she just wasn't going to provide that information to the public). But, she did mention "lack of coverage" which, now, would seem to fit the shell casing words as a motive.

[Kodos]

I kinda assumed it was something like that when I heard about the shooting.