Werewolf XX - Of Demons and Elementals (Humans Win!) - Page 44

st.cronin · 01-07-2006, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Cronin why did you want to protect SnDvls so much?

I didn't care about SnDvls - at that time it was all about no lynch/no kill - making the game last long enough.

st.cronin · 01-07-2006, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Now I see why my vision had so many animals. You didn't follow through with your deal, IIRC.

Of course not - at that time, the demons were doomed. I wasn't about to end the game.

hoopsguy · 01-07-2006, 06:02 PM

Huh, so you guys didn't know who all the demons were? Or the roles of the humans? Interesting ...

st.cronin · 01-07-2006, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Huh, so you guys didn't know who all the demons were? Or the roles of the humans? Interesting ...

The only roles we knew were druid and warlock, although we figured out pretty quick that you were the seer.

hoopsguy · 01-07-2006, 06:08 PM

When the demons show up - what were the reasons for King and Saldana on first day? Did you think they had somehow tipped their hand or strictly random? Or some other set of criteria.

Here were my thoughts on scans:
Night 0 - Dubb, would have been happy to trade seer role for him if I had to. If not, was happy to know we would be playing same team.

Night 1 - Cronin, not really sure in hindsight, but I didn't understand what game he was playing at the time.

Night 2 - Dacman was just about silent, even when up for vote. I wanted to know why.

Night 3 - By this point, people thought King was the seer, so I did not want to get into a one-on-one showdown if I could avoid it. Went after Ardent, thought there was a decent chance he was warlock/druid based on early questions about sacrifices. Had almost scanned him on Night 2.

Night 4 - Again, happy to be alive at this point and figure that clearing Barkeep is good because it also clears King. Or he is lying and I get two bad guys.

Night 5 - Look at Pass, he comes in and kills me.

Coffee Warlord · 01-07-2006, 06:08 PM

The favors that were available.

Favor Chart
-----------
Human Favors
1) Designate two random players (can be from either side) for PM rights for one Day/Night period.
2) Protects one random player (can be from either side) from execution for one night.
3) Grants one-use Seer power to random human player for the night.
4) Reveals role of one random human player to random human player.

Demon Favors
1) Prevent 1 random player (can be from either side) from speaking for one day period, except to vote by PM (and only vote).
2) Masks presence of one random demon from Seers for one night period.
3) Prevents one random demon from lynching for next day period.
4) Strips 1 random player (can be from either side) of their power for one night.

hoopsguy · 01-07-2006, 06:09 PM

Did you learn I was the seer when I scanned you? I would assume you did if the humans did.

Did you think about sending that information to the demons, since you were backing them early?

st.cronin · 01-07-2006, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

When the demons show up - what were the reasons for King and Saldana on first day? Did you think they had somehow tipped their hand or strictly random? Or some other set of criteria.

Here were my thoughts on scans:
Night 0 - Dubb, would have been happy to trade seer role for him if I had to. If not, was happy to know we would be playing same team.

Night 1 - Cronin, not really sure in hindsight, but I didn't understand what game he was playing at the time.

Night 2 - Dacman was just about silent, even when up for vote. I wanted to know why.

Night 3 - By this point, people thought King was the seer, so I did not want to get into a one-on-one showdown if I could avoid it. Went after Ardent, thought there was a decent chance he was warlock/druid based on early questions about sacrifices. Had almost scanned him on Night 2.

Night 4 - Again, happy to be alive at this point and figure that clearing Barkeep is good because it also clears King. Or he is lying and I get two bad guys.

Night 5 - Look at Pass, he comes in and kills me.

Actually dac was night 1, I was night 2.

hoopsguy · 01-07-2006, 06:10 PM

So the demons got favor #3 one time - did any of the others come into play at any point?

Coffee Warlord · 01-07-2006, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Did you learn I was the seer when I scanned you? I would assume you did if the humans did.

Did you think about sending that information to the demons, since you were backing them early?

Noone was informed who the seer was when they were scanned. When you did elementals, I just gave you a different message.

st.cronin · 01-07-2006, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Did you learn I was the seer when I scanned you? I would assume you did if the humans did.

Did you think about sending that information to the demons, since you were backing them early?

No, it was your comments the next day that gave it away to us. I thought you had tipped your hand early, and kept expecting the demons to kill you.

Barkeep49 · 01-07-2006, 06:12 PM

I think it seems unfair that the demons could benefit from the villagers winning favor but not vice versa. Otherwise I think you designed a complex but well balanced game CW.

hoopsguy · 01-07-2006, 06:13 PM

Oh, never mind, said it wrong. I assume they knew they were scanned. Did they know who was scanning or did they just deduce I was seer? If so, was there anything in particular that gave it away? I was trying to be fairly non-obvious early, although less so as the game went on and I felt it was important that my trust lists were properly respected.

st.cronin · 01-07-2006, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

So the demons got favor #3 one time - did any of the others come into play at any point?

I believe the humans got favor for night 1, but in a curious twist, Sun was protected - that was what made me think Sun was human, although as it turned out I didn't understand the nature of the favor.

hoopsguy · 01-07-2006, 06:13 PM

Out for the night, looking forward to reading more tomorrow.

Great game, Coffee!

Coffee Warlord · 01-07-2006, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

So the demons got favor #3 one time - did any of the others come into play at any point?

Heh. Cue AE bitching. I'll tell you this MESS of a story.

Okay. Night 1. AE chooses correctly. Gets the 'protected from night kill' favor.
Random roll, the favor winds up on SnDvls, a demon. Whee.

Demons choose to kill Saldana. Who is protected by his power, and would get info on who killed him. Random roll chooses SnDvls to do the deed. So, I adlib a little, and say the elementals prevent Saldana from finding out who attacked him.

Then AE commences 5 days of whining about me not telling him of the little change in the favor that allowed that.

st.cronin · 01-07-2006, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Oh, never mind, said it wrong. I assume they knew they were scanned. Did they know who was scanning or did they just deduce I was seer? If so, was there anything in particular that gave it away? I was trying to be fairly non-obvious early, although less so as the game went on and I felt it was important that my trust lists were properly respected.

I'll see if I can find the post that tipped me off....

Barkeep49 · 01-07-2006, 06:17 PM

Oh and this didn't effect our game but having the bodyguard be able to protect the same person without limitations is a broken mechanic even if they can't protect themselves.

Poli · 01-07-2006, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I think it seems unfair that the demons could benefit from the villagers winning favor but not vice versa. Otherwise I think you designed a complex but well balanced game CW.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Poli · 01-07-2006, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Heh. Cue AE bitching. I'll tell you this MESS of a story.

Okay. Night 1. AE chooses correctly. Gets the 'protected from night kill' favor.
Random roll, the favor winds up on SnDvls, a demon. Whee.

Demons choose to kill Saldana. Who is protected by his power, and would get info on who killed him. Random roll chooses SnDvls to do the deed. So, I adlib a little, and say the elementals prevent Saldana from finding out who attacked him.

Then AE commences 5 days of whining about me not telling him of the little change in the favor that allowed that.

Bastad. You should have told me of the adlib, as I thought Saldana was full of it at that point.

st.cronin · 01-07-2006, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Blade, I generally try to make adjustments from game to game rather than re-hashing the same style of play from earlier efforts. Particularly games that I've found myself lynched.

Also in that game, AE knew I was a wolf from Day 1 and was trying to trap me. I am positive that he has not viewed me as a demon this game. My role does not, in any way, allow for me to be viewed in this sense, unless I am drastically missing something in the rule set.

In terms of the elemental question - I have a strong inkling of one player as an elemental. I could be wrong, but I don't want to throw that out there on the board if it is helping demons more than villagers. If I had realized that I would immediately attract votes from asking the question then I would have mulled over the idea more on my own first.

I think this was the post that gave it away to me and dac.

kingfc22 · 01-07-2006, 06:25 PM

And why was I targeted on night 1?

st.cronin · 01-07-2006, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Bastad. You should have told me of the adlib, as I thought Saldana was full of it at that point.

That adlib really messed with my mind too. I was sure Sun was human - and then I figured he must have been converted. It never occured to me that a human favor could benefit the demons.

dubb93 · 01-07-2006, 06:41 PM

I would love to play this game again. Seemed very balanced, the demons just played it badly. I think it could have gone many ways, depending on when the seer dies and how I played my night kill. I was very close to blowing it on Cronin and changed it at literally the last minute. If I had killed Cronin, and confirmed he was an elemental instead of checking Sun the game could have gone much differently.

For one, we probably would have trusted the elementals, and would have firmly believed Sun was a villager.

Poli · 01-07-2006, 06:55 PM

Now I can clean out my PM box. It's been hovering around 60. Friggin Warlord and his adlibs.

st.cronin · 01-07-2006, 07:02 PM

I would dearly love to hear a demon explain why they went after saldana the second night, and then dacman. Both of those plays made very little sense to me.

dubb93 · 01-07-2006, 07:12 PM

I would love to hear a demon explain why Pass claimed a role he knew would bite him in the ass and get him lynched when everyone else on his side was either dead, or seriously on the hot seat. He knew at most with King's role he would last 2 days after that, not nearly enough time to win. I'm sure he could have made up a generic role that may not be 100% believed, but once his 2 "protects" bit the dust, he was done. Atleast with a generic made up role he had a chance.

TazFTW · 01-07-2006, 07:43 PM

To all those who doubted my crappy role...

::blows raspberry::

path12 · 01-07-2006, 08:51 PM

Thanks everyone for putting up with the new guy's questions. It was frustrating to not be getting what was going on, but I'm sure I will improve my play with time. I learned a bunch from following the conversations between Blade, Hoops, Ardent and Barkeep.

st.cronin · 01-07-2006, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by path12

Thanks everyone for putting up with the new guy's questions. It was frustrating to not be getting what was going on, but I'm sure I will improve my play with time. I learned a bunch from following the conversations between Blade, Hoops, Ardent and Barkeep.

I wasn't really able to figure out what was happening until my third game.

path12 · 01-07-2006, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I wasn't really able to figure out what was happening until my third game.

And dude, you were just confusing the HELL out of me.

st.cronin · 01-07-2006, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by path12

And dude, you were just confusing the HELL out of me.

sorry

heh, not really

Blade6119 · 01-07-2006, 09:43 PM

Good game to everyone except that bastard cronin who killed me...i dont think the demons played the best game, or the elementals, but it is what it is. Path, hope you stick around and keep learning. Ive played quite a few of these now(more then 10), and i learn new things every time...just stick with it and im sure you will become an excellent player

st.cronin · 01-07-2006, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Good game to everyone except that bastard cronin who killed me...i dont think the demons played the best game, or the elementals, but it is what it is. Path, hope you stick around and keep learning. Ive played quite a few of these now(more then 10), and i learn new things every time...just stick with it and im sure you will become an excellent player

There actually WAS some strategy involved in that ... I was trying to talk ardent and pass into starting up the sacrifices again.

Blade6119 · 01-07-2006, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

There actually WAS some strategy involved in that ... I was trying to talk ardent and pass into starting up the sacrifices again.

I figured as much..i also thought my having my vote on pass all that day when everyone else had saldana played a part

Poli · 01-07-2006, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

There actually WAS some strategy involved in that ... I was trying to talk ardent and pass into starting up the sacrifices again.

Ha. That wasn't going to happen.

saldana · 01-07-2006, 10:05 PM

my ressurection was the shittiest thing ever, with sndvls being PK'ed at the same time basically made me dead as soon as i got back...i pretty much gave up trying to say anything because no one was dumb enough to fall for any of the lies i could make up

hoopsguy · 01-08-2006, 12:37 AM

Saldana, you got a terrible lot in this game.

Poli · 01-08-2006, 05:29 PM

Bucc,

What was the big thing we were missing, in your opinion?

Buccaneer · 01-08-2006, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Let me spell this out to everyone for tonight...

KING - RAISE BARKEEP
PASS - PROTECT KING
EVERYONE ELSE - SMILE WHILE WE WAIT FOR SOMEONE TO DIE

Too much riding on #2. It wasn't going to happen.

Passacaglia · 01-08-2006, 08:23 PM

Good game all! I don't have much time right now, but sometime tomorrow, I should be able to post my thoughts!

SnDvls · 01-08-2006, 08:30 PM

Demon here...got caught up on the reading.

king- just random on the kill, but looks like it was lucky.

Saldana - we went after him with the intention to raise him and bring him in the fold. We actually weren't going to go after him twice because he was blessed, but after WVU did a public PM revile it put us in a crappy place so CW told us that Sal's role was one time only (I had asked him about it and got no answer until the public PM post) we decided to then hit him again and bring him in.

I made an error by posting I could raise someone...before I read the whole thread (damn Blade got me too worked up and pissed off) and saw that Barkeep had basically done the same thing. I screwed up there, and actually hurt us in that.

St. C - we knew you were elemental once you said I was human as only the elementals would think that with me being protected on the attack of Saldana on night 1.

I think it was a little sided towards the humans with as many special roles they had, but overall a great game that if one lynch goes towards a human instead of a demon it could have been a different game...or if dubb didn't kill me too that would have produced a different product with bringing back Saldana.

I think that answered all the questions

SnDvls · 01-08-2006, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saldana

my ressurection was the shittiest thing ever, with sndvls being PK'ed at the same time basically made me dead as soon as i got back...i pretty much gave up trying to say anything because no one was dumb enough to fall for any of the lies i could make up

we actually talked about raising king here which would have failed with Barkeep trying to do the same, but didn't. Where would the game have gone from this point? Would everyone had gone after barkeep even though I was still killed by dubb and he didn't bring back king?

Barkeep49 · 01-08-2006, 08:33 PM

Yes that's what would have happened.

SnDvls · 01-08-2006, 08:36 PM

major props to CW too. If you reread the stuff in my room you'll notice a penis pump...it's because Saldana kicked me in the nuts on night 1 when I attacked him...very creative and gave me a hell of a laugh...and yes I killed king

SnDvls · 01-08-2006, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Yes that's what would have happened.

damn...I wouldn't have been around, but you wouldn't have either

hoopsguy · 01-08-2006, 09:53 PM

Would we have gone after Barkeep instead of Gram, since he was the one up for that day? I'm not sure. But if we had lynched Barkeep then I would have scanned someone else that night. The game would have taken a different turn, no doubt about it.

01-07-2006, 06:25 PM	#2172
kingfc22 Head Coach Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Morgan Hill, CA	And why was I targeted on night 1? __________________ Fan of SF Giants, 49ers, Sharks, Arsenal

01-07-2006, 06:55 PM	#2175
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	Now I can clean out my PM box. It's been hovering around 60. Friggin Warlord and his adlibs. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

01-07-2006, 07:02 PM	#2176
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	I would dearly love to hear a demon explain why they went after saldana the second night, and then dacman. Both of those plays made very little sense to me. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

01-07-2006, 08:51 PM	#2179
path12 Coordinator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle, WA	Thanks everyone for putting up with the new guy's questions. It was frustrating to not be getting what was going on, but I'm sure I will improve my play with time. I learned a bunch from following the conversations between Blade, Hoops, Ardent and Barkeep. __________________ We have always been at war with Eastasia.

01-07-2006, 09:43 PM	#2183
Blade6119 Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona	Good game to everyone except that bastard cronin who killed me...i dont think the demons played the best game, or the elementals, but it is what it is. Path, hope you stick around and keep learning. Ive played quite a few of these now(more then 10), and i learn new things every time...just stick with it and im sure you will become an excellent player __________________ *Underachievement* The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut by the lawnmower. *Despair* It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black. *Demotivation* Sometimes the best solution to morale problems is just to fire all of the unhappy people. http://www.despair.com/viewall.html

01-07-2006, 06:02 PM	#2153
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Huh, so you guys didn't know who all the demons were? Or the roles of the humans? Interesting ...

01-07-2006, 06:08 PM	#2155
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	When the demons show up - what were the reasons for King and Saldana on first day? Did you think they had somehow tipped their hand or strictly random? Or some other set of criteria. Here were my thoughts on scans: Night 0 - Dubb, would have been happy to trade seer role for him if I had to. If not, was happy to know we would be playing same team. Night 1 - Cronin, not really sure in hindsight, but I didn't understand what game he was playing at the time. Night 2 - Dacman was just about silent, even when up for vote. I wanted to know why. Night 3 - By this point, people thought King was the seer, so I did not want to get into a one-on-one showdown if I could avoid it. Went after Ardent, thought there was a decent chance he was warlock/druid based on early questions about sacrifices. Had almost scanned him on Night 2. Night 4 - Again, happy to be alive at this point and figure that clearing Barkeep is good because it also clears King. Or he is lying and I get two bad guys. Night 5 - Look at Pass, he comes in and kills me.

01-07-2006, 06:08 PM	#2156
Coffee Warlord Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Colorado Springs	The favors that were available. Favor Chart ----------- Human Favors 1) Designate two random players (can be from either side) for PM rights for one Day/Night period. 2) Protects one random player (can be from either side) from execution for one night. 3) Grants one-use Seer power to random human player for the night. 4) Reveals role of one random human player to random human player. Demon Favors 1) Prevent 1 random player (can be from either side) from speaking for one day period, except to vote by PM (and only vote). 2) Masks presence of one random demon from Seers for one night period. 3) Prevents one random demon from lynching for next day period. 4) Strips 1 random player (can be from either side) of their power for one night.

01-07-2006, 06:09 PM	#2157
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Did you learn I was the seer when I scanned you? I would assume you did if the humans did. Did you think about sending that information to the demons, since you were backing them early?

01-07-2006, 06:10 PM	#2159
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	So the demons got favor #3 one time - did any of the others come into play at any point?

01-07-2006, 06:12 PM	#2162
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	I think it seems unfair that the demons could benefit from the villagers winning favor but not vice versa. Otherwise I think you designed a complex but well balanced game CW.

01-07-2006, 06:13 PM	#2163
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Oh, never mind, said it wrong. I assume they knew they were scanned. Did they know who was scanning or did they just deduce I was seer? If so, was there anything in particular that gave it away? I was trying to be fairly non-obvious early, although less so as the game went on and I felt it was important that my trust lists were properly respected.

01-07-2006, 06:13 PM	#2165
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Out for the night, looking forward to reading more tomorrow. Great game, Coffee!

01-07-2006, 06:17 PM	#2168
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	Oh and this didn't effect our game but having the bodyguard be able to protect the same person without limitations is a broken mechanic even if they can't protect themselves.

01-07-2006, 07:43 PM	#2178
TazFTW Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Honolulu, HI	To all those who doubted my crappy role... ::blows raspberry::

01-07-2006, 10:05 PM	#2187
saldana Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bethlehem, Pa	my ressurection was the shittiest thing ever, with sndvls being PK'ed at the same time basically made me dead as soon as i got back...i pretty much gave up trying to say anything because no one was dumb enough to fall for any of the lies i could make up

01-08-2006, 12:37 AM	#2188
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Saldana, you got a terrible lot in this game.

01-08-2006, 05:29 PM	#2189
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	Bucc, What was the big thing we were missing, in your opinion? __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

01-08-2006, 08:23 PM	#2191
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Good game all! I don't have much time right now, but sometime tomorrow, I should be able to post my thoughts!

01-08-2006, 08:30 PM	#2192
SnDvls Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001	Demon here...got caught up on the reading. king- just random on the kill, but looks like it was lucky. Saldana - we went after him with the intention to raise him and bring him in the fold. We actually weren't going to go after him twice because he was blessed, but after WVU did a public PM revile it put us in a crappy place so CW told us that Sal's role was one time only (I had asked him about it and got no answer until the public PM post) we decided to then hit him again and bring him in. I made an error by posting I could raise someone...before I read the whole thread (damn Blade got me too worked up and pissed off) and saw that Barkeep had basically done the same thing. I screwed up there, and actually hurt us in that. St. C - we knew you were elemental once you said I was human as only the elementals would think that with me being protected on the attack of Saldana on night 1. I think it was a little sided towards the humans with as many special roles they had, but overall a great game that if one lynch goes towards a human instead of a demon it could have been a different game...or if dubb didn't kill me too that would have produced a different product with bringing back Saldana. I think that answered all the questions

01-08-2006, 08:33 PM	#2194
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	Yes that's what would have happened.

01-08-2006, 08:36 PM	#2195
SnDvls Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001	major props to CW too. If you reread the stuff in my room you'll notice a penis pump...it's because Saldana kicked me in the nuts on night 1 when I attacked him...very creative and gave me a hell of a laugh...and yes I killed king

01-08-2006, 09:53 PM	#2197
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Would we have gone after Barkeep instead of Gram, since he was the one up for that day? I'm not sure. But if we had lynched Barkeep then I would have scanned someone else that night. The game would have taken a different turn, no doubt about it.

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