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Old 01-16-2021, 11:09 AM   #1051
Galaril
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Originally Posted by Lathum View Post
I never read it as $2600 but donít follow it that close. Did anyone actually ever say an additional $2000?

I was not ever eligible for these but when I heard it I knew it meant a total of 2000 (1400+600).
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Old 01-16-2021, 11:09 AM   #1052
RainMaker
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What is the downside to making the checks $2000? I am guessing a lot of people could use it.
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Old 01-16-2021, 11:11 AM   #1053
Galaril
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Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
What is the downside to making the checks $2000? I am guessing a lot of people could use it.

Shit I would say give them $3000. We just printing money in this country since at least 2001 so what the hell.
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Old 01-16-2021, 11:54 AM   #1054
larrymcg421
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What is the downside to making the checks $2000? I am guessing a lot of people could use it.

We're not saying there's a downside to $2000, but criticizing the ridiculous idea that the $1400 is a betrayal of what was promised.
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Old 01-16-2021, 12:04 PM   #1055
molson
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Honestly, the fact that it's not $1,425 proves that Dems hate America. Imagine ripping $25 from the pockets of Americans in need. So petty.
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Old 01-16-2021, 12:13 PM   #1056
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The downside to 2000 is probably that Manchin would say no.

Take the win. Shitting all over this will only make it more likely that the Dems have less ability to do things in the future. 70% of what you want is a lot better than 0%.
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Old 01-16-2021, 12:21 PM   #1057
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The downside to 2000 is probably that Manchin would say no.

Take the win. Shitting all over this will only make it more likely that the Dems have less ability to do things in the future. 70% of what you want is a lot better than 0%.

And it's how we end up with the GOP back in power in 2024. "The GOP gave me 0% of what I wanted last time they were in power and the Dems gave me 70% so I'm going to vote GOP."
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Old 01-16-2021, 12:26 PM   #1058
CrimsonFox
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Originally Posted by JPhillips View Post
The downside to 2000 is probably that Manchin would say no.

Take the win. Shitting all over this will only make it more likely that the Dems have less ability to do things in the future. 70% of what you want is a lot better than 0%.

it isn't 70% of what you want...it's 2000...which they were fighting for all along...ans in the future...they will fight again for more
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Old 01-16-2021, 12:30 PM   #1059
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It will be perfect if Rubio loses a primary to Ivanka.
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Old 01-16-2021, 12:58 PM   #1060
Edward64
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Originally Posted by Lathum View Post
but it doesn't say additional 2K, it says 2K. So $600 and $1400 equaling 2K. I honestly don't see how this can be read any other way

It's like a car salesman, "no, sorry I wasn't clear, I didn't mean that, I meant this".

The $600 was passed in Dec. In Jan, there were still $2,000 being dandied around to GA voters. Biden should have said "I'm for $2,000 total" or similar to make that clear. I am unaware if he ever made that distinction (and I like to think I was paying attention to the GA senate races).

I'm personally okay with either and my preference is a more targeted stimulus check; take the difference and make it even bigger for those that really need it. What I am saying Biden and team did a poor job of not spelling it out and leaving some room for doubt.
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Old 01-16-2021, 01:37 PM   #1061
molson
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I remember reading how there would be separate payments for $1,400 if it passed. Some people are still waiting on the last $600, or were as of last week at least. The brief debate was between $600 and $2,000. Biden and the Georgia Dem Senate candidates were on the $2,000 side.

I'm still not convinced we'll even get $1,400. That wouldn't make me regret my vote or change any of my elation about having a new president. But we'll have to remember again that the U.S. presidency is not a dictatorship, despite the experience of the last 4 years, things can't be accomplished by waving a magic wand.

Last edited by molson : 01-16-2021 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 01-16-2021, 03:27 PM   #1062
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I currently am waiting for everything (I have to file my 2020 taxes and claim it as a refund)
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Old 01-16-2021, 05:02 PM   #1063
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Why didn't we have a plan in place to roll out the national guard to set up triage units to administer the vaccine. coordinate with FEMA, CDC, FDA, etc...and have plans in place months in advance.

This vaccine roll out has nothing to do with Trump being told no and everything to do with his administration being a total unorganized shit show.

cough cough


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Old 01-16-2021, 05:13 PM   #1064
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I wonder if I get 2000 for my college aged students that I claim?
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Old 01-16-2021, 06:56 PM   #1065
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cough cough


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Fast forward to when COVID is finally under control due to these new proactive actions and following science, the MAGA crowd will say itís all because Dear Leader single handedly built the vaccine.
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Old 01-16-2021, 07:07 PM   #1066
GrantDawg
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If they pass this, yes tarcone. That is one of things this fixes. Adult dependants will get full $2000.

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Old 01-16-2021, 10:34 PM   #1067
Edward64
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Originally Posted by GrantDawg View Post
If they pass this, yes tarcone. That is one of things this fixes. Adult dependants will get full $2000.

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Oh, didn't realize this. Good to know.

I'm still waiting on my $600 checks. Just checked the website and nothing.

In fact, I'm still waiting on my 2019 tax refund. It just says "in progress".
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Old 01-16-2021, 10:53 PM   #1068
NobodyHere
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So Biden wants to rejoin the Paris Agreement.

I never understood why this is good for the US. If we want to cut our emissions, then enact laws to cut them. But the "agreement" forces us to spend billions of dollars on other countries, cash that we have to borrow.
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Old 01-17-2021, 01:58 AM   #1069
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Because Climate Change is a global issue and the Gleen Climate Fund of the Paris Agreement is used to help developing countries in adaptation and mitigation - and to entice them to industrialize using green energy rather than fossil fuels (which at the moment is far cheaper than green energy).

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Old 01-17-2021, 03:38 AM   #1070
SirFozzie
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Right. Because if we don't do it, many other nations won't (kinda unfair to tell them. "We're going to continue using up 40% of the world's resources while we don't want you to use 5%" (Numbers made up), so us being part of the agreement reassures other nations to stay in the agreement and we all benefit from the hopeful amelioration of climate change issues.
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Old 01-17-2021, 05:21 AM   #1071
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If they pass this, yes tarcone. That is one of things this fixes. Adult dependants will get full $2000.

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I've heard 'we should' but not 'we will' on that. I'm curious. I had an adult dependent on my taxes last year, but obviously she didn't get the initial $1200, and she didn't get the $600 second wave, either.

Dunno if, whoops, we're gonna see a credit on my taxes this year, or if she's gonna wake up one morning to money in the bank.
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Old 01-17-2021, 08:05 AM   #1072
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Originally Posted by GrantDawg View Post
If they pass this, yes tarcone. That is one of things this fixes. Adult dependants will get full $2000.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

I hadn't heard that part yet, and yeah, that would make a huge difference for us, as I said before, our 2nd check worked out to $360 per person.
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Old 01-17-2021, 08:38 AM   #1073
Edward64
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The migrant caravan has apparently has dropped from 2,000-4,000 down to 1,000 and hasn't made it into Mexico yet (or don't think).

First test for Mexico without the Trump "big stick" hanging over Mexico to see how it responds. Beyond DACA and a lot of words, I'm unsure of what Biden plans to do with "caravans at the wall (scratch) at the fence".

First test for Biden if Mexico let's them through.

Honduran migrant caravan 1,000 strong demands that Biden match his rhetoric about refugees | Daily Mail Online
[quote]
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Old 01-17-2021, 08:43 AM   #1074
Edward64
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Originally Posted by kingfc22 View Post
Fast forward to when COVID is finally under control due to these new proactive actions and following science, the MAGA crowd will say it’s all because Dear Leader single handedly built the vaccine.

Trump does get credit specifically for Operation Warp Speed re: development. Not to say a Hillary or Biden wouldn't have their own Operation Warp Speed in a parallel universe but let's give him some credit here.

But yeah, lack of transparency, and all that other BS (e.g. stupid press conferences) that distracted from the real problems ... majority of that is on him.

Last edited by Edward64 : 01-17-2021 at 08:44 AM.
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Old 01-17-2021, 08:56 AM   #1075
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[quote=Edward64;3323947]The migrant caravan has apparently has dropped from 2,000-4,000 down to 1,000 and hasn't made it into Mexico yet (or don't think).

First test for Mexico without the Trump "big stick" hanging over Mexico to see how it responds. Beyond DACA and a lot of words, I'm unsure of what Biden plans to do with "caravans at the wall (scratch) at the fence".

First test for Biden if Mexico let's them through.

Honduran migrant caravan 1,000 strong demands that Biden match his rhetoric about refugees | Daily Mail Online
Quote:

OR

we stop painting these people are savage gang members and human traffickers, and allow them to seek asylum so we have some people in this country willing to do the work even the poorest white people wont. Then these people go on to have kids and grandkids that become valuable members of society. some become doctors, scientists, LEOs, professors, all the while contributing to our diversity.

Can't have that, can we.
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Old 01-17-2021, 08:59 AM   #1076
Lathum
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Originally Posted by Edward64 View Post
Trump does get credit specifically for Operation Warp Speed re: development. Not to say a Hillary or Biden wouldn't have their own Operation Warp Speed in a parallel universe but let's give him some credit here.

But yeah, lack of transparency, and all that other BS (e.g. stupid press conferences) that distracted from the real problems ... majority of that is on him.

My hatred for the man is probably blinding me, but why should we give him any credit? He fought against science, undermined his own people, and took zero responsibility for the woeful response. His politicizing something as basic as wearing a mask was responsible for countless deaths. Now the roll out is an absolute disaster, and again he is passing the blame.

Now he deserves credit? Fuck that guy.
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Old 01-17-2021, 09:16 AM   #1077
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My hatred for the man is probably blinding me, but why should we give him any credit? He fought against science, undermined his own people, and took zero responsibility for the woeful response. His politicizing something as basic as wearing a mask was responsible for countless deaths. Now the roll out is an absolute disaster, and again he is passing the blame.

Now he deserves credit? Fuck that guy.

I heard stuff like that from Kellyanne Conway too, as she was trying to get Bill Maher to agree to some great things he'd done, and I was like, literally ANY leader could have done those things, none of them were because of trump, he just happened to be the guy in charge in that moment. But like we talked about during the first impeachment, Pence could have been equally, if not more effective in that role, and you'd have rid yourself of a cancerous mob boss, and could have fixed the party before the 2020 blowout.
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Old 01-17-2021, 09:26 AM   #1078
Lathum
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If they want to secure the inauguration schedule a NASCAR race for that day.
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Old 01-17-2021, 09:30 AM   #1079
GrantDawg
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I hadn't heard that part yet, and yeah, that would make a huge difference for us, as I said before, our 2nd check worked out to $360 per person.
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Old 01-17-2021, 09:33 AM   #1080
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Every announcement on his plan said the stimulus would include adult dependents.
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Old 01-17-2021, 09:35 AM   #1081
Lathum
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I am assuming the UI and 3K per kid are all under a certain income threshold? The article is behind a paywall.
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Old 01-17-2021, 09:50 AM   #1082
Edward64
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Originally Posted by Lathum View Post
OR

we stop painting these people are savage gang members and human traffickers,

No doubt the rhetoric is BS.

Quote:
and allow them to seek asylum so we have some people in this country willing to do the work even the poorest white people wont.

You said asylum, I'm all for expanding guest worker program. My issue is not with legal but illegal. And yeah, let's take care of 5M in the legal backlog first.

Immigration Wait Times from Quotas Have Doubled: Green Card Backlogs Are Long, Growing, and Inequitable | Cato Institute
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More than 100,000 legal immigrants — 28 percent of the family‐​sponsored and employment‐​based lines with quotas — waited a decade or more to apply for a green card in 2018, up from 3 percent in 1991. By contrast, 31 percent had no wait at all from the quotas in 1991, while just 2 percent had no wait in 2018. The quota system also imposes limits on the number of green cards for individual nationalities, causing longer waits from countries with the highest demand. Indians averaged the longest wait because of quotas — over 8 years and 6 months.

Behind those immigrants who applied for green cards in 2018 stand nearly five million people waiting in the applicant backlog. Without significant reforms, wait times will become impossibly long for these immigrants. Altogether, about 675,000 would‐​be legal immigrants — 14 percent of those waiting in 2018 — would die without seeing a green card if they refused to give up and stayed in the line indefinitely. It will take decades and — in some categories — a half century or more to process everyone else waiting now.
Quote:
Then these people go on to have kids and grandkids that become valuable members of society. some become doctors, scientists, LEOs, professors, all the while contributing to our diversity.

Same as the legal 5M waiting in line.

And why the championing of the illegals "browns" south of the border? Why don't we champion the "yellows" in Asia, or the "browns" in South Asia, or the "blacks" in Africa. I'm all for expanding legal immigration for them before having more illegals from south of the border.

Last edited by Edward64 : 01-17-2021 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 01-17-2021, 09:51 AM   #1083
GrantDawg
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I am assuming the UI and 3K per kid are all under a certain income threshold? The article is behind a paywall.
The UI is available for those who qualify for UI (is there an income cap for UI?). The $3k child credit follows the same faze out as the 2K has now (200,000/400,000). The difference is it is fully refundable (only $1400 now is).
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Old 01-17-2021, 09:52 AM   #1084
Edward64
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Every announcement on his plan said the stimulus would include adult dependents.

This would be great. We shared the first stimulus check with the college kids.
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Old 01-17-2021, 09:53 AM   #1085
Edward64
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Originally Posted by Lathum View Post
My hatred for the man is probably blinding me, but why should we give him any credit? He fought against science, undermined his own people, and took zero responsibility for the woeful response. His politicizing something as basic as wearing a mask was responsible for countless deaths. Now the roll out is an absolute disaster, and again he is passing the blame.

Now he deserves credit? Fuck that guy.

Yeah, I know what you mean.

Maybe I'm just compartmentalizing too much here like he gets 20% credit but 80% blame so does the 20% credit really matter.
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Old 01-17-2021, 10:52 AM   #1086
Lathum
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And why the championing of the illegals "browns" south of the border? Why don't we champion the "yellows" in Asia, or the "browns" in South Asia, or the "blacks" in Africa. I'm all for expanding legal immigration for them before having more illegals from south of the border.

Because they do the majority of the jobs even the poorest, most uneducated whites wont do. Are there Asians, etc...that do those jobs also, of course.

It is probably a combination of logistics and other things, but it is just easier for people south of the border to come do those jobs. Doesn't mean I don't support all immigrants, but you can't deny this admin has largely demonized the brown ones.
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Old 01-17-2021, 11:49 AM   #1087
lungs
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If they want to secure the inauguration schedule a NASCAR race for that day.

NASCAR is no good anymore after all the Bubba Wallace business last year.

Maybe a bunch of big gun shows across the USA would do the trick.
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Old 01-17-2021, 12:48 PM   #1088
thesloppy
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The UI is available for those who qualify for UI (is there an income cap for UI?). The $3k child credit follows the same faze out as the 2K has now (200,000/400,000). The difference is it is fully refundable (only $1400 now is).


UI benefits are capped at a maximum weekly value determined by each state.
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Old 01-17-2021, 01:21 PM   #1089
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[quote=Edward64;3323947]The migrant caravan has apparently has dropped from 2,000-4,000 down to 1,000 and hasn't made it into Mexico yet (or don't think).

First test for Mexico without the Trump "big stick" hanging over Mexico to see how it responds. Beyond DACA and a lot of words, I'm unsure of what Biden plans to do with "caravans at the wall (scratch) at the fence".

First test for Biden if Mexico let's them through.

Honduran migrant caravan 1,000 strong demands that Biden match his rhetoric about refugees | Daily Mail Online
Quote:

There were over 400k stops at the southern border in 2020. A 1000 person caravan won't be noticed.
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Old 01-17-2021, 02:06 PM   #1090
kingfc22
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But the brown people are INVADING!!!
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Old 01-17-2021, 03:57 PM   #1091
Edward64
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Originally Posted by JPhillips View Post
There were over 400k stops at the southern border in 2020. A 1000 person caravan won't be noticed.

Sure. But if "successful", more will follow. And if those are "successful", more will follow them.

Definition of "successful" in this case is crossing the border illegally and able to find work and/or apply for asylum and allowed in as economic (vs political) refugees.
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Old 01-17-2021, 04:05 PM   #1092
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I know Pompeo is pulling some last minute BS. But some talking heads are talking about how it's binding Biden into a "path".

I don't get it. All Biden has to say publicly is to the effect "Secretary Pompeo does not speak for my administration. Be on notice that I will determine my own foreign policy and may choose or not, to disregard Secretary Pompeo's actions in the past X weeks".
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Old 01-17-2021, 04:18 PM   #1093
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Heh, DailyMail. Similar to reading People for hard-hitting Brexit coverage.
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Old 01-17-2021, 04:20 PM   #1094
Edward64
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Heh, DailyMail. Similar to reading People for hard-hitting Brexit coverage.

This is true.

But will say the DailyMail has more quantity of pics (and arguable better quality pics) of an event than the typical US MSM.
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Old 01-17-2021, 05:46 PM   #1095
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First test for Biden if Mexico let's them through.

We have laws for those that try to cross illegaly, and we have laws for those seeking asylum. We should do our best to follow them and stop demonizing brown people. This is the easiest test for Biden in the world, since it sounds like this group has no intention of trying to sneak over the border after being photographed the whole way there :P
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Old 01-17-2021, 07:15 PM   #1096
GrantDawg
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The Daily Mail in the US is mostly stories bought from small local papers. Sometimes they actually have some good info, but some times they have fake sensationalist garbage.

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Old 01-18-2021, 07:54 AM   #1097
Edward64
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Originally Posted by Lathum View Post
It is probably a combination of logistics and other things, but it is just easier for people south of the border to come do those jobs. Doesn't mean I don't support all immigrants, but you can't deny this admin has largely demonized the brown ones.

There is truth in what you say but IMO there is a lot of truth left unsaid re: Trump policies and this forum. I won't bother regurgitating all the points and let's leave it cordially at we'll agree to disagree.
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Old 01-18-2021, 07:57 AM   #1098
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Good to hear they are trying to control their borders. Hard to know how serious Guatemala and Mexico are, guess we'll find out soon enough.

https://abc11.com/migrant-caravan-20...to-us/9751753/
Quote:
Guatemalan President Alejandro Giammattei issued a statement calling on Honduran authorities "to contain the mass exit of its inhabitants." On Friday, the migrants entered Guatemala by pushing past about 2,000 police and soldiers posted at the border; most entered without showing the negative coronavirus test that Guatemala requires.

"The government of Guatemala regrets this violation of national sovereignty and calls on the governments of Central America to take measures to avoid putting their inhabitants at risk amid the health emergency due to the pandemic," Giammattei's statement continued.

Guatemala has set up almost a dozen control points on highways, and may start busing more migrants back to Honduras, as it has done before, arguing they pose a risk to themselves and others by traveling during the coronavirus pandemic.

Governments throughout the region have made it clear they will not let the caravan through.

Mexico mounted a dissuasive campaign at its southern border, circulating videos and photos of thousands of National Guardsmen and immigration agents preparing if the migrants manage to cross Guatemala.
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Old 01-18-2021, 08:00 AM   #1099
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A reasonable response IMO.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/imm...u-won-n1254550
Quote:
As thousands of Honduran migrants make their way to the U.S. border, the incoming Biden administration, just days from taking office, has a message: Don't come now.

President-elect Joe Biden has promised an end to the strict immigration policies of the Trump administration, which focused on building a border wall and restricting eligibility for asylum.

But those promises may be put to the test in the new government's first days. If would-be emigrants from Central America perceive that now is the time to travel to the U.S., the southern border could quickly be overwhelmed before systems are put in place to handle the influx.

A senior Biden transition team official said the perception that the Biden administration will be able to allow all arriving asylum seekers to enter the U.S. to make their claim on day one is false.

"The situation at the border isn't going to be transformed overnight," the transition official told NBC News in an exclusive interview.

But the official declined to say when asylum seekers might be able to come to the U.S. and whether they will be detained as they await a court hearing.
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Old 01-18-2021, 08:07 AM   #1100
Butter
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Why is this thread already obsessed with immigration? It's maybe 138th of the problems facing this country. Scapegoating immigrants probably lands at a solid 20th.
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