WW LXXXVII Terror at the University :Game over, Wolves win!

[Chief Rum]

I'm going with RPI today (since I have to put a vote in now).

I don't want to risk him coming back and becoming a bad weight on our voting, as his vote becomes increasingly valuable as others are lost. Yesterday, we didn't need to remove him. We don't really need to today either, but I would rather start harping on it now than wait until too late, which, IMO, is after tomorrow.

VOTE RPI

[Hannibal Lecter]

Originally Posted by jeff061

That's my belief, there's only one wolf and the wolves can not attack while being watched over. See the 1st night. It was a good play by Danny.

right... but if the person doing the watching is the one killed? wouldnt that affect it?

[Hannibal Lecter]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

No, we only know they can't attack someone else. I'm not so sure they couldn't attack the BG when he's right there. I tried to talk about that at the deadline last night, but Danny was removed too fast.

All that said, I tend to agree that it is unlikely that heinz is the wolf. Of course, I never thought he was the wolf, just based on his play, but that's just me.

thats one of my problems with heainze... i cant think of the last game he didnt scream wolf at me.... and hes not now.... I wont be voting for him, but ......

[Chief Rum]

It's a two job day for me as usual, so I will bid you all adieu here with this post.

I have no problem with suspicion of me, as I know I am not cleared. All that said, there are still quite a few others who are also not cleared, so I am not sure why I should be the target above them. All I know is (of course) that lynching me isn't going to end this game today.

Main point is, we seem to have better candidates than just going after players who aren't cleared but otherwise haven't been too questionable (myself, Abe, jeff, DT come to mind in this category). RPI, HL and perhaps Telle are stronger plays.

But I leave that up to you all. Hope to see you guys after deadline.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

FTR, it was my logic first.

DT just expanded on it with pointing out how long we had to go before we could remove RPI Fan. So, kinda odd that you suspect me for not disagreeing with...myself!

Oops. I missed your post . We agree then. I'll hold off on further mudslinging(and further making myself look bad) until I go over posts I apparently miss.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

I am going to say this with CR and jeff here so they can defend themselves.

I think CR and jeff are good votes today. I'm looking at roommates. My guess is that we have a wolf with a roommate out there. Pairs left include BK-CR, where BK is cleared, and jeff-me, where I know I'm fine. Also telle-HL, but I don;t have a take there.

So, CR and jeff, I'm looking your way, and I'd love to hear thoughts about my thoughts.

My thoughts are there aren't much to your thoughts?

[jeff061]

Well I'm going to stick with my pool for today being Chief and Telle. Definitely open to alternatives, other than me .

[jeheinz72]

Well, that went about as expected I suppose. Good to know I'm somehow cleared though I myself am probably not 100% sure that's how it works. Anyhow, I think that plus my game-play speaks for itself.

More to come once I look at who all is left

[jeheinz72]

1. RPI Fan - Who knows at this point. Probably the janitor, but with the way people are protecting a vote against him it makes me wonder if he's the final wolf and one of his protectors is the janitor. I *really* don't want him to be the lynch when we're down to 5, then we've basically let the wolves take us from a winnable game to a vertiable coin flip.
2. DaddyTorgo - My guess is villager or janitor based on what I've read
3. Jeff - Not sure anymore. I think he could be any of the 3. Janitor protecting RPI. Villager using anti-villager tactics to prove a point. Or a wolf trying to get by yesterday. On the rim of the questionable bucket.
4. Telle - Still well within my questionable bucket
6. Chief Rum - On the rim of the questionable bucket
8. Hannibal - Still well within my questionable bucket
13. Barkeep - Cleared. Could only be janitor
14. JeHeinze - The coolest guy who has ever lived.
15. Abe - On the rim of the questionable bucket

Tiering it out

Suspicious of
Telle, Hannibal

Starting to smell furry
CR, Abe, Jeff

Pretty sure at least isn't the wolf
DT

Not voting for
jeheinz72, Barkeep

Other
RPI-fan

[jeheinz72]

Either way, I hope today is a more discussion friendly day than yesterday was.

Villager, wolf or other, I think it's poor werewolf play to essentially use scare tactics into getting someone to agree with you. There's no way that all of us who disagreed with the heavy-handed RPI plan are all wolves/janitors so at the very least that tactic dissueded a few villagers to not play well yesterday, such as myself.

[Hannibal Lecter]

vote rpi

we know hes bad! the best reason ive heard not to vote for him is that he hasnt been online for days, and therefore couldn't put in a kill order. I could be convinced to switch, but frankly i have suspicions of prettymuch everyone other than BK.


the odd play by DT and Jeff make me think they are both Janitors and RPI is the last wolf....so I honestly have no idea where to go form here.

[jeheinz72]

I'm discounting any possibility of 2 janitors. Nuh-uh. Not going down that illogical road.

*notches a tally next to HL's name*

[Barkeep49]

JH: I think yesterday had some good discussion, honestly.

[Barkeep49]

I agree. 2 janitors is not a possibility I'm willing to consider.

[Hannibal Lecter]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I'm discounting any possibility of 2 janitors. Nuh-uh. Not going down that illogical road.

*notches a tally next to HL's name*

didnt say i thought thats what happend, just saying thats how they were playing!

[Hannibal Lecter]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I'm discounting any possibility of 2 janitors. Nuh-uh. Not going down that illogical road.

*notches a tally next to HL's name*

although I guess you could read it that way

[Abe Sargent]

vote rpi

I'm still willing to do it

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

JH: I think yesterday had some good discussion, honestly.

Maybe, at points. But I'll be honest, I cashed out around mid-day when it became "Agree with me or I'll vote for you day"

[jeheinz72]

The irony in all of this is now it's 3-1 in votes for RPI and if I vote for him we enter landslide territory, which is what I definitely don't want. But the flip side is, I think Jeff likely only plays like that if he's the janitor (with RPI the wolf), not the actual wolf

[jeheinz72]

I'll go here, open to discussion. The whole "Oh for the first time ever I trust Heinz" thing is starting to read to me like a wolf buying my trust in saying that in a game when I've earned a lot of people's trust

Vote Hannibal Lecter

[Hannibal Lecter]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I'll go here, open to discussion. The whole "Oh for the first time ever I trust Heinz" thing is starting to read to me like a wolf buying my trust in saying that in a game when I've earned a lot of people's trust

Vote Hannibal Lecter

I guess i need to clarify for you.... you arent giving me a wolfy vibe, ergo you might be a wolf! Or maybe a long break has changed your style some, or hell maybe it change the way i read you.....thats what im saying. i could care less if you trust me!

[Telle]

I honestly have no idea where to go today. I have Barkeep as trusted, jeheinze as slightly trusted, RPI-Fan as untrusted, and everybody else in the "I have no freaking idea" category.

[Telle]

Votes as of post 972:

3 - RPI-Fan - Chief Rum (951), Hannibal (961), Abe Sargent (967)
1 - jeff061 - Barkeep (939)
1 - Hannibal - jeheinz (970)

[Hannibal Lecter]

Can we get a clarification by Lathum on weather Heinze would be able to attack Danny while being guarded?

[jeff061]

Well I'm not playing anti-villager. Heinze you're just mistaken/still not seeing clearly, if I knew you or hannibal were not wolves or even had a single reason to think that I certainly would not have voted. No matter what your opinion on anything was. If BK had the same posts as you or Hannibal yesterday I would not have voted for him.

Anyways. Hannibal keeps bouncing back and forth with me. I really can not get any sort of read on him at all. I almost want to lynch him out of curiosity, but that wouldn't be the proper move .

Vote Chief Rum

It was either him or Hannibal. I'm still leading more towards him and Telle. I'd say I feel more comfortable voting for those two than I have anyone in this game(besides EF and Hoops of course). Certainly not a slam dunk by any stretch though.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

The irony in all of this is now it's 3-1 in votes for RPI and if I vote for him we enter landslide territory, which is what I definitely don't want. But the flip side is, I think Jeff likely only plays like that if he's the janitor (with RPI the wolf), not the actual wolf

Why?

[jeff061]

I think its pretty clear at this point RPI is not a wolf. But I'm not going through yesterday again. I take the blame in making it less cheery that it should have been.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Why?

On which part?

Why I don't want the landslide is obvious. We lose a day of discussion.

Or do you mean why do i think Jeff is a more likely janitor than wolf? Well, if he was the last wolf it'd be pretty dumb to take a hard line stance such as that on anything, down big in the game. But if he was the janitor and RPI was the wolf, then it'd make sense, since he'd lose as the janitor if people voted RPI.

A touch of circular logic without a doubt

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I think its pretty clear at this point RPI is not a wolf. But I'm not going through yesterday again. I take the blame in making it less cheery that it should have been.

I'd likely only agree with this for the metagame reasoning,unfortunate as that may be (not a fan of metagaming, but I realize it was a simple mistake).

I'm not willing to 100% rule it out, hell who knows, maybe he just can't get on the site and he's emailing. But still, that's starting to get to a 2-janitors level of reach.

[jeff061]

You can call it metagaming if you want, but I had picked up on it before DT brought it to light. It's fact. RPI hasn't been around since the 10th and commands are still being sent in.

If I'm the wolf, why would I care about protecting the janitor?

[jeff061]

FYI, I posted that before I saw you mention it. See great minds!!

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Well I'm not playing anti-villager. Heinze you're just mistaken/still not seeing clearly, if I knew you or hannibal were not wolves or even had a single reason to think that I certainly would not have voted. No matter what your opinion on anything was. If BK had the same posts as you or Hannibal yesterday I would not have voted for him.

Anyways. Hannibal keeps bouncing back and forth with me. I really can not get any sort of read on him at all. I almost want to lynch him out of curiosity, but that wouldn't be the proper move .

Vote Chief Rum

It was either him or Hannibal. I'm still leading more towards him and Telle. I'd say I feel more comfortable voting for those two than I have anyone in this game(besides EF and Hoops of course). Certainly not a slam dunk by any stretch though.

Which two? Him and Hannibal or Him and Telle. Or Telle and Hannibal.

[jeff061]

Chief and Telle.

[jeheinz72]

Gotcha. It's just so hard not having as many data points on them. Part of my likes lynching inactive (not that CR is inactive by his own choosing) but part of me thinks we get more data points if we lynch others.

It's tough, I'm largely meh on a lot of folks.

[Telle]

I think it's foolish to vote for RPI-Fan and anybody who does so at this point is suspect. It's obvious he's not the wolf.. you don't miss three votes in a row and still get your kill orders in each night. So voting for him just wastes a day of looking for the actual wolf.. which of course is something the wolf wants us to do.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

On which part?

Why I don't want the landslide is obvious. We lose a day of discussion.

Or do you mean why do i think Jeff is a more likely janitor than wolf? Well, if he was the last wolf it'd be pretty dumb to take a hard line stance such as that on anything, down big in the game. But if he was the janitor and RPI was the wolf, then it'd make sense, since he'd lose as the janitor if people voted RPI.

A touch of circular logic without a doubt

If I'm the last wolf and RPI is the janitor, I don't want to be caught not voting for the janitor. So when it appears as though it's going to be a landslide against RPI, I want to get on that bandwagon. However, when things appear less certain I'm suddenly going to try and save the guy who is out there to help me (even if he's been AWOL).

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Telle

I think it's foolish to vote for RPI-Fan and anybody who does so at this point is suspect. It's obvious he's not the wolf.. you don't miss three votes in a row and still get your kill orders in each night. So voting for him just wastes a day of looking for the actual wolf.. which of course is something the wolf wants us to do.

I think there's a certain logic to this, but I think there's a certain logic to voting for RPI as well.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Lathum

6 - EagleFan - jeheinz (79), Abe Sargent (86), jeff061 (109), The Jackal (135), DT (189), Hoops (196)
6 - The Jackel - Barkeep (49), Jonathan Ezarik (103), Telle (147), EF (164), Danny (194) Hannibal (229)
1 - Grammaticus - RPI-Fan (51),
1 - Danny - Chief Rum (46)

Originally Posted by Lathum

4 - RPI-Fan - Hannibal (719), Barkeep (730), Abe Sargent (811), Grammaticus (888),
6 - Grammaticus - Telle (814), jeheinze (816), DaddyTorgo (836), jeff061 (874) Danny (905), CR (906)

Pulling these up, our non-landslide votes

Hannibal - One vote villager, one unknown
BK - One vote villager, one unknown (not a wolf though, we know)
Abe - One vote wolf, one unknown
Heinz - One vote wolf, one vote villager
Jeff - One vote wolf, one vote villager
DaddyTorgo - One vote wolf, one vote villager
Telle - 2 votes villager
Chief - 2 votes villager
RPI - One vote villager, one no vote, one large grey matter of confusion.

I'm not voting today for BK, Me, Jeff, DT

RPI I'm unsure on still, it's starting to look like he's cleared in a meta fashion, at least from wolfness

That leaves

Telle - 2 votes villager

The Jackal vote made it 4-3-2 instead of 5-2-2. Avoiding a big nail in EF"s coffin, but keeping discussion alive. Started the Gramm voting, but his name had been mentioned before then (and I have stated I would've voted for him if not for self-defense, in the interest of full disclosure)

Chief - 2 votes villager

Tough to gauge that first vote. It's on Danny, but was made so early and locked in. Not a good vote. The Gramm vote ain't great either of course, but if he subscribed to the "Bad idea to vote RPI" theory that was laid out, it was either Gramm or a complete waste of a vote.

Hannibal - One vote villager, one unknown

The Jackal vote was obviously very poor. The 2nd vote is against the plan, but if he was a wolf, wouldn't he be just fine with lynching someone who is a villager (Gramm) rather than lynching someone who may indeed be his only help (RPI as janitor)

Abe - One vote wolf, one unknown

He's said the EF vote was largely luck. No real trust points outside of that. My feeling on yesterdays vote is akin to the reasoning under Hannibal, he knows who the villagers are, if he's the wolf, no sense arguing the point so long as the lynch isn't him.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Gotcha. It's just so hard not having as many data points on them. Part of my likes lynching inactive (not that CR is inactive by his own choosing) but part of me thinks we get more data points if we lynch others.

It's tough, I'm largely meh on a lot of folks.

I agree, I don't think Chief has been terribly inactive though. Telle's been around as well.

I'll jump on Hannibal without feeling a mistake is being made if it's needed to put the vote ahead of RPI.

[jeheinz72]

I think I'm either sticking on Hannibal or flipping to Telle.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

If I'm the last wolf and RPI is the janitor, I don't want to be caught not voting for the janitor. So when it appears as though it's going to be a landslide against RPI, I want to get on that bandwagon. However, when things appear less certain I'm suddenly going to try and save the guy who is out there to help me (even if he's been AWOL).

True, but he was leading the switches, as the first or 2nd voter I believe on myself, HL and early on Gramm.

I think if I'm a wolf, and I'm fairly sure RPI is the janitor, I argue the point maybe, but I don't flip 3 times as I don't really care who is lynched if it's not me, not the janitor and not a roled villager.

[jeff061]

My only trust point with Abe is believing the final wolf agreed to not lynch RPI yesterday. That took him off my immediate radar.

[jeff061]

So i guess to sum up my logic and to pull this quote from Heinze's post

6 - Grammaticus - Telle (814), jeheinze (816), DaddyTorgo (836), jeff061 (874) Danny (905), CR (906)

These are the people who did not vote for RPI. I think one of those are the wolf. Taking out the presumed cleared that leaves CR and Telle.

You could make an argument for DT, but I'm trusting him(DT you better make me looks good!) and to a lesser extend Heinz if you want to ague the BG ruleset.

[jeheinz72]

Personally, I think that's more damning for Telle then CR. CR's vote was virtually locked in with it 5-4 and 11 minutes to go until the deadline. No matter what CR actually is, he either had to waste his vote, vote for Gramm or tie it up which would be a first-class ticket to getting lynched today.

[jeff061]

I have no problem switching to Telle if there is agreement there, I just don't want to be all over the place for no reason. As BK has shown, that can be unhealthy for my neck.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by jeff061

You can call it metagaming if you want, but I had picked up on it before DT brought it to light. It's fact. RPI hasn't been around since the 10th and commands are still being sent in.

If I'm the wolf, why would I care about protecting the janitor?

I refuse to use information like that in my vote and play processes.

[Telle]

VOTE HANNIBAL

I maintain that it's easy for a wolf to hide a vote on the janitor.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Telle

VOTE HANNIBAL

I maintain that it's easy for a wolf to hide a vote on the janitor.

I think Hannibal makes the most sense after rpi, and if the group starts to move that way, I'd consider a jump. His day one actions are tough to defend.

[Abe Sargent]

I'd prefer just to get the whole RPI thing over with today though.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Hannibal Lecter

Can we get a clarification by Lathum on weather Heinze would be able to attack Danny while being guarded?

I can't answer that