FOFC Literature Draft - Picks Thread

[Izulde]

Interesting.

Not the one I'd have chosen for Shakespeare, but interesting.

[DaddyTorgo]

1. Fiction
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially) The Foundation Series, Isaac Asimov
6. Sport Related
7. Children's
8. Non-Fiction
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History

[Izulde]

Asimov as a 1st round pick?

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Oh, I believe you, cronin, no more defending of PMs needed on my account. Axxon seemed to have doubts about my point, though, so I felt I needed to respond to him more at length.

The point I was wondering about was the fact that he couldn't use the information though and I think you had missed that part but I do want clarification so we don't run into this in a less cut and dry situation.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Sorry for the delay...

Fiction: 1.4 Hamlet, by William Shakespeare
Single Short Story
Poem
Fantasy/Science Fiction
Series
Sport Related
Children's
Non-Fiction
Biography/Autobiography
History

Label your selection like so:

Yup, I was wondering what work of his would be chosen, and this had the inside track in my mind. Romeo & Juliet was the other one, but I feel that is much more a "popular" choice, as opposed to a critical choice. Not that Romeo & Juliet is not an accomplished work, and almost certainly the most well-known tragic love story. But there are underlying psychological motivations and brilliant word choices that, IMO, elevate other Shakespeare works like Hamlet, Macbeth and Othello over Romeo & Juliet.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Not the one I'd have chosen for Shakespeare, but interesting.

The problem with Shakespeare is that he doesn't fit well into any one category. And most of them have some sort of historical or non-fictional element which makes them even tougher to slot in.

Macbeth would have worked too. Perhaps Romeo and Juliet. But I don't see much difference between those and Hamlet as far the draft goes.

[st.cronin]

I like that pick, too.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Asimov as a 1st round pick?

two reasons: a shortage of "series", and the inherent geeky nature of the denizens of the internet. Plus, he's a seminal author, and it was one of the first real classic series that launched a genre.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Axxon

The point I was wondering about was the fact that he couldn't use the information though and I think you had missed that part but I do want clarification so we don't run into this in a less cut and dry situation.

No, I caught that the first time and the second time you brought it up. If your suggestion was a work by the same author, why not just say it here? If it is from another author, regardless it is a PM that should not happen, because that particular work might fit in another category (many of which do not necessarily exclude short stories), or that other author might have other works that draftee had not considered until the author was mentioned to him.

That is potentially affecting his future picks, and that's why I am against it. And it's not about trusting what you and cronin say about the choice or its effect. I can trust you both completely, and it still should be a rule, because we can't with 100% certainty extend that trust from everyone to everyone.

And, yes, I do want clairification.

[wade moore]

Solid choices so far imo. I think the Tolkien controversy is not a big deal - seems like another one that the voters should decide on rather than the rules. If you think it's not a true series, then let it hurt that "team" in the voting.

I'm somewhat surprised Asimov goes this early - let alone not in the sci-fi category, but he's certainly a name author.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I'm glad you're sure. I don't see why it should be an issue to not do this.

As I told you, I don't know what suggestion you made and can't judge whether it might affect his other picks or other categories. For all I know, that will end up affecting his choices later on, whether he says so or not.

Discuss the draft all you want outside of the thread. Just if you are speaking with someone actually in the draft, you should probably avoid talking about other works by other other authors, regardless of category. If you want to talk about that specific work, go for it. If you want to talk about that author, that is fine as well. If you want to bring up another work by an author who has already been selected, that's another way to go. I don't think it's too much to ask that you need do anything that could be construed as tampering.

This is all for fun, but there is some competitive intent here, and I believe we should honor that intent.

Never said it was a problem, just wanted a clarification and you're right, who I told him could technically be chosen again but hey, if he did, it would hurt him more than help him honestly.

[st.cronin]

DT, that's a solid pick imo. 'Twas high on my board.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

The problem with Shakespeare is that he doesn't fit well into any one category. And most of them have some sort of historical or non-fictional element which makes them even tougher to slot in.

Macbeth would have worked too. Perhaps Romeo and Juliet. But I don't see much difference between those and Hamlet as far the draft goes.

I'd have chosen Othello for my own personal bias, but yeah, there's a number of plays and poems that would've worked for a few different categories.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

two reasons: a shortage of "series", and the inherent geeky nature of the denizens of the internet. Plus, he's a seminal author, and it was one of the first real classic series that launched a genre.

Ahh, that makes it a little more sense.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Asimov as a 1st round pick?

He may not have the exquisite word choice and writing style of a classic, but there is no doubting he is a giant of science fiction and an amazing story teller.

I figured he would be gone, but disappointed anyway, as it was my intent to make Nightfall, one of the greatest scifi stories written, IMO, as my short story choice.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Axxon

Never said it was a problem, just wanted a clarification and you're right, who I told him could technically be chosen again but hey, if he did, it would hurt him more than help him honestly.

Interesting. When this is all done,. I will be interested to know who you discussed with him.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Yup, I was wondering what work of his would be chosen, and this had the inside track in my mind. Romeo & Juliet was the other one, but I feel that is much more a "popular" choice, as opposed to a critical choice. Not that Romeo & Juliet is not an accomplished work, and almost certainly the most well-known tragic love story. But there are underlying psychological motivations and brilliant word choices that, IMO, elevate other Shakespeare works like Hamlet, Macbeth and Othello over Romeo & Juliet.

I was planning to choose Sonnet 18. Famous, and would have given a poet category and leave fiction open but this is good too. I prefer Macbeth, Othello, and King Lear better among the non histories though.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

The problem with Shakespeare is that he doesn't fit well into any one category. And most of them have some sort of historical or non-fictional element which makes them even tougher to slot in.

Macbeth would have worked too. Perhaps Romeo and Juliet. But I don't see much difference between those and Hamlet as far the draft goes.

I might have put Shakespeare in poetry.

Too bad this takes out his sonnets, some of which were brilliant.

[st.cronin]

Personally I thought Shakespeare would go in the series category - the Prince Hal plays, for example.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Axxon

I was planning to choose Sonnet 18. Famous, and would have given a poet category and leave fiction open but this is good too. I prefer Macbeth, Othello, and King Lear better among the non histories though.

Heh, we crossposted about sonnets. I forget which one is Sonnet 18. I'll have to go look it up.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Solid choices so far imo. I think the Tolkien controversy is not a big deal - seems like another one that the voters should decide on rather than the rules. If you think it's not a true series, then let it hurt that "team" in the voting.

I'm somewhat surprised Asimov goes this early - let alone not in the sci-fi category, but he's certainly a name author.

Both Asimov and Tolkien go in the "series" category, instead of the fantasy/scifi category. Although the prevalence of series in that genre probably means it will dominate the series section.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

He may not have the exquisite word choice and writing style of a classic, but there is no doubting he is a giant of science fiction and an amazing story teller.

I figured he would be gone, but disappointed anyway, as it was my intent to make Nightfall, one of the greatest scifi stories written, IMO, as my short story choice.

Sniff, Sniff, I had him for autobiography. Two of my top choices already taken. Makes it harder but way more fun and interesting than I had hoped for.

[Chief Rum]

Just looked up Sonnet 18. Of course, yes, that would been a very good choice.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Heh, we crossposted about sonnets. I forget which one is Sonnet 18. I'll have to go look it up.

Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?
Thou art more lovely and more temperate:

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Both Asimov and Tolkien go in the "series" category, instead of the fantasy/scifi category. Although the prevalence of series in that genre probably means it will dominate the series section.

Good point on the crossover there.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Axxon

Sniff, Sniff, I had him for autobiography. Two of my top choices already taken. Makes it harder but way more fun and interesting than I had hoped for.

What autobiography would you have chosen? I'll admit I haven't ever read any of his nonfiction, and off the top of my head, I thought he mostly wrote scientific text books and texts with his nonfiction work.

I'll have to read The Dead to see how it compares to Nightfall.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

What autobiography would you have chosen? I'll admit I haven't ever read any of his nonfiction, and off the top of my head, I thought he mostly wrote scientific text books and texts with his nonfiction work.

I'll have to read The Dead to see how it compares to Nightfall.

His own of course but it fits as a series too because he wrote it in two books.

In Memory Yet Green, 1979
In Joy Still Felt 1980

Oh, and he has a book in every category of the dewey decimal system except one so he was going somewhere.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Axxon

His own of course but it fits as a series too because he wrote it in two books.

In Memory Yet Green, 1979
In Joy Still Felt 1980

Oh, and he has a book in every category of the dewey decimal system except one so he was going somewhere.

lol...the meaning of this word autobiography, what is it again?

(tries and fails to wipe egg off face)

[NoMyths]

1. Fiction
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem:
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
6. Sport Related
7. Children's
8. Non-Fiction 1.6 - On the Origin of Species, Charles Darwin
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History

No time for lengthy commentary (or the full title), but this is one of the most important scientific works in human history. From Wiki:
"Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species (published 1859) is a seminal work in scientific literature and arguably the pivotal work in evolutionary biology.[1] The book's full title is On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life, while for the 6th edition of 1872 the title was changed to The Origin of Species.[2] It introduced the theory that populations evolve over the course of generations through a process of natural selection. Darwin's book was the culmination of evidence he had accumulated on the voyage of the Beagle in the 1830s and expanded through continuing investigations and experiments since his return.[3]

The book is readable even for the non-specialist and attracted widespread interest on publication. The book was controversial because it contradicted religious beliefs that underlay the then current theories of biology, and it generated much discussion on scientific, philosophical, and religious grounds. The scientific theory of evolution has itself evolved since Darwin first presented it, but natural selection remains the most widely accepted scientific model of how species evolve. The at-times bitter creation-evolution controversy continues to this day."

[Axxon]

I'm actually pretty fired up to be last since I like getting two picks in a row.

Origin of Species is an interesting choice. Can't knock it but I wouldn't have put it in the first round though.

[Izulde]

Great pick for the Non-Fiction category, but strikes me as a bit early.

[st.cronin]

I think Darwin's a reach, myself.

[Chief Rum]

Origin of the Species was one I was thinking of selecting later to counter my Bible pick. I think getting a good spread that appeals to many will do better in the final voting.

I don't know that I would have selected it here, either, but NM is dead on that its historical importance cannot be overstated.

[wade moore]

Non-Fiction is an interesting category for me. I have a feeling those waiting until round 8 or 9 to fill this will find the pickings pretty slim.

[Buccaneer]

It's a really good thing I am not in this contest, going up against literature snobs and scifi geeks.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

It's a really good thing I am not in this contest, going up against literature snobs and scifi geeks.

Hey, I resemble those remarks.

Both of them.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

It's a really good thing I am not in this contest, going up against literature snobs and scifi geeks.

+1 ...

[st.cronin]

I'm very excited, my #2 overall is still available.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I'm very excited, my #2 overall is still available.

Now watch, you'll have jinxed yourself.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I'm very excited, my #2 overall is still available.

If it's the one you PM'ed me you're so screwed.




I kid, I kid.

[Warhammer]

Aw crap....

I need ot think about this since Asimov is what I was going with here...

[DaddyTorgo]

woohoo

[Warhammer]

Seldom can you say that a poem has completely changed all literature and culture that came after it. However, my first round pick you can credibly argue that it did. My first round pick in the FOFC Literary Draft is:

Poem - The Iliad by Homer

Fiction
Single Short Story
Poem - 1.7 The Iliad - Homer
Fantasy/Science Fiction
Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
Sport Related
Children's
Non-Fiction
Biography/Autobiography
History

[DaddyTorgo]

nice pick warhammer. That was definitely on my list.

[Warhammer]

The interesting thing about Asimov being used for a series is that he really puts a dent in what can be used in sci-fi and short stories. The only issue I have with Foundation is that the series went downhill after the fourth book. But, I think the original Foundation Trilogy is one of the best series of all time.

EDIT: You could also have argued the Robot Trilogy as well. But Foundation is the better known trilogy as well.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

nice pick warhammer. That was definitely on my list.

Thanks. You really messed up my draft strategy with your pick, but I think I can recover!

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Seldom can you say that a poem has completely changed all literature and culture that came after it. However, my first round pick you can credibly argue that it did. My first round pick in the FOFC Literary Draft is:

Poem - The Iliad by Homer

Fiction
Single Short Story
Poem - 1.7 The Iliad - Homer
Fantasy/Science Fiction
Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
Sport Related
Children's
Non-Fiction
Biography/Autobiography
History

Interesting. I had thought a lot about that one, and in that very category. Of course, it is a very long poem, and everyone knows that, but I thought the fact that it has full-fledged story elements would end up putting it in Fiction or (even more boldly) History.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

The interesting thing about Asimov being used for a series is that he really puts a dent in what can be used in sci-fi and short stories. The only issue I have with Foundation is that the series went downhill after the fourth book. But, I think the original Foundation Trilogy is one of the best series of all time.

EDIT: You could also have argued the Robot Trilogy as well. But Foundation is the better known trilogy as well.

He puts a dent in them, yes, but I am not too concerned about filling those categories myself. The depth of literature in history, in all its forms, means that there should remain excellent choices throughout the draft, in all categories, IMO.

[larrymcg421]

1. Fiction - 1.8 The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, Mark Twain
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
6. Sport Related
7. Children's
8. Non-Fiction
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History

This was actually my #1 pick going in, so I'm glad it's still around at #8. Obviously a seminal classic, and probably the single best example of American fiction.

[Izulde]

Great pick! It's one I strongly considered when my turn came around.