Alright Boyz, Here We Go!!!! (OOTP 2007 release thoughts!!!)

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by King of New York

Right now I'm using the Gambo database, but with recalc turned off--it''ll be interesting to see how player development pans out down the road.

Another thought: so far, I'm liking the trade AI. I've left everything trade-related set to "normal," and I have found that, in terms of quality, the AI has handled itself well--if I want quality players, I have to give up quality players. Even better, the AI does not bombard me with lop-sided deals--its proposals during the winter meetings have all been plausible.

My 1903 Cardinals have a middle infield consisting of Nap Lajoie and Honus Wagner! Unfortunately, at first base I have two guys named Hughie and Klondike, neither of whom can hit a lick. I moved Willie Keeler to 3B, where he is a butcher in the field--every ground ball is an adventure.

When I had the preview copy, I used the Gambo database with recalc off in one test career, and I generally liked the results I saw in that career. A few quirks, but plenty of good stories. That is what I'm doing again with this career.

[Ksyrup]

Man, this one is sad...

My all-time favorite player, Steve Carlton, came up with the Cardinals in 1965 and went 9-7 with a 3.30 ERA and 141 Ks in 128 innings, and even made the A-S game. Inexplicably, his ratings slipped during the offseason (not enough arm exercises in a rice vat maybe?) and he was sent back down to AAA for 1966, and then had an even bigger ratings drop the next year and spent 1967 in AA.

At this point, his career looks identical to Rick Ankiel's - without the backstory.

OK, I could go on for hours like this, so I'll stop. I'm going back to sim 1968 and 1969.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by King of New York

Right now I'm using the Gambo database, but with recalc turned off--it''ll be interesting to see how player development pans out down the road.

Excellent! I'll be interested to see the results.

One thing that confused me about the way the database is used...in the notes, it seemed to suggest that we had to manually point the game to each specific year that was to be imported, unlike Lahman, which is more Popeil (set it and forget it!). Is that the case? I'd hate to have to monitor 50-100 years of simming to manually update the database path each year. Not an issue so much if I'm playing it out, but just for fast-simming, that seems like an issue, if I read the instructions right.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Excellent! I'll be intereste to see the results.

One thing that confused me about the way the database is used...in the notes, it seemed to suggest that we had to manually point the game to each specific year that was to be imported, unlike Lahman, which is more Popeil (set it and forget it!). Is that the case? I'd hate to have to monitor 50-100 years of simming to manually update the database path each year. Not an issue so much if I'm playing it out, but just for fast-simming, that seems like an issue, if I read the instructions right.

If that is true, that db is pretty much useless to me.

[Ksyrup]

I don't know if it is...EF, can you comment? I'll admit I was confused when I read the instructions, so I might have misread them.

[Ksyrup]

Four-bagger Feast? What kind of news article title is that?? I think a buddy of mine from college had a porno movie by that name!

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

OK, this is a bit unrealistic.. In the middle of the 1962 season, the Red Sox traded 43 year old Ted Williams to the Colt .45s. Which wouldn't be THAT big a deal, except for 2 things - during his 3 months with Houston, he (a) got his 4000th hit, and (b) broke Gehrig's all-time HR record. Apparently Boston wasn't interested in the free publicity and goodwill that Williams' accomplishments would have generated, because they really had to have Chico Fernandez!

I'm not sure how you fix something like that, but...!

Oh, and the expansion teams in 1962 weren't as good - Houston lost 88 and the Mets lost 98. But Washington and LAA both ended up over .500 in their second years. I still think 25 is probably the right number for the protected list.

Ugh. I hope that was just an isolated case. Teams mishandling hugely popular, productive players became a huge pet peeve of mine in 6.51 and I posted on it before release.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I don't know if it is...EF, can you comment? I'll admit I was confused when I read the instructions, so I might have misread them.

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Four-bagger Feast? What kind of news article title is that?? I think a buddy of mine from college had a porno movie by that name!

ROFL at the 2nd comment.


As far as the Gambo instructions, they are confusing, I think in part because they still refer to how things were done in OOTP 6.51 and OOTP 2006. If you want to start simming in 1920 or 1930, or any other year midway through the database, there are some required manipulations as described in the instructions to have older players import with all of their correct historical stats. However, if you start at the beginning of the career or you aren't worried about every player having exactly the correct stats, no manipulations are required. Rookies automatically import just fine with 2007.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Ugh. I hope that was just an isolated case. Teams mishandling hugely popular, productive players became a huge pet peeve of mine in 6.51 and I posted on it before release.

I think you'll see much less of this with Gambo or some of the non-Lehman databases where they worked to specifically correct these type of issues.

[Ksyrup]

What a difference a replay makes...

1968 Detroit Tigers - 45-117


I am noticing something a little strange in the years preceding expansion... since the expansion teams are added immediately following the WS of the prior year, they show up in the standings. Not a huge deal, because they don't seem to show up in the history standings for that year, which would be an issue. However, for that Tigers team I mentioned above, it says they finished in 6th place. Well, they didn't - they were in 1 10-team division/league in 1968 and they finished 10th. In the 1969 divisional structure, they would have finished in 6th in their division, though. So I think there are part of the game basing the previous season's results on the league as if the expansion teams were already in it.

And, in looking at this more closely, when I look at the league stats & leaders page for 1968, although the 10 teams are all listed as being in the same league/division, they are being divided internally by division. In other words, Minnesota won 101 games and finished second to Baltimore, which won 111, but on the league screen, it's showing Minnesota on top of Baltimore and both as having finished 1st. This is obviously based on the 1969 divisional structure being applied to 1968. A few teams below them are also swapped based on divisional standing rather than league standing as it existed in 1968.

EDIT: I wish I could post a screen shot to explain this better, but the game is on my laptop and I'm posting on my work computer (shhh...don't tell anyone!).

[Ksyrup]

A player search function (like on baseball-reference.com) would be great on the player history page, to save a few clicks in having to track a guy down alphabetically.

[Ksyrup]

News Item: Jay Johnstone Has Accident.

I hope he had a change of underwear with him...

[Ksyrup]

Expansion update...1969 Padres and Royals both finished 82-80, but the Expos lost 99 games and the Pilots lost 114. It's all over the place.

[TigerFan1]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

What a difference a replay makes...

1968 Detroit Tigers - 45-117


I am noticing something a little strange in the years preceding expansion... since the expansion teams are added immediately following the WS of the prior year, they show up in the standings. Not a huge deal, because they don't seem to show up in the history standings for that year, which would be an issue. However, for that Tigers team I mentioned above, it says they finished in 6th place. Well, they didn't - they were in 1 10-team division/league in 1968 and they finished 10th. In the 1969 divisional structure, they would have finished in 6th in their division, though. So I think there are part of the game basing the previous season's results on the league as if the expansion teams were already in it.

And, in looking at this more closely, when I look at the league stats & leaders page for 1968, although the 10 teams are all listed as being in the same league/division, they are being divided internally by division. In other words, Minnesota won 101 games and finished second to Baltimore, which won 111, but on the league screen, it's showing Minnesota on top of Baltimore and both as having finished 1st. This is obviously based on the 1969 divisional structure being applied to 1968. A few teams below them are also swapped based on divisional standing rather than league standing as it existed in 1968.

EDIT: I wish I could post a screen shot to explain this better, but the game is on my laptop and I'm posting on my work computer (shhh...don't tell anyone!).

I know what you are getting at. That is only how it displays on the main league standings page. If you go to the league history it should display everything correctly for 1968. It was brought up in testing as being a little irratating but I believe the answer was the teams had to be placed somewhere. It only occurs from late October until the following preseason begins in February and again it has no effect on the league history pages.

[DaddyTorgo]

Dled, but won't get to fire it up for a couple hours.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by TigerFan1

I know what you are getting at. That is only how it displays on the main league standings page. If you go to the league history it should display everything correctly for 1968. It was brought up in testing as being a little irratating but I believe the answer was the teams had to be placed somewhere. It only occurs from late October until the following preseason begins in February and again it has no effect on the league history pages.

I was looking at it from the history page, but only at the time (i.e., October of 1968), not in the future looking back. So you're right, I guess it only affects the period of time between the end of the season and the time the expansion year starts. But now that I'm into the 70s, looking back at the 1968 history page, it is correct. Thanks for the clarification.

[Young Drachma]

So far, I've created a fictional league today with a new country I created, added the cities in the .txt file and then loaded it up and it worked okay. Expansion has been okay so far, too. I was worried about it, just because. But no more having to recreate the league schedule, it's already done for you once you decide to expand the league.

It's a lot easier to setup a fictional league on the fly and to just get moving with it, especially if you've got any familiarity with OOTP2006.

Good stuff.

[Ksyrup]

Dick Simpson and Rene Lachemann are bona fide stars, while Joe Morgan, Carl Yastremski, and Steve Carlton are flame outs. Ha!

[Young Drachma]

That's pretty hilarious. I bet Joe Morgan would demand a recall.

[Young Drachma]

Seems like the OOTP board is a' hoppin'...I can't reach it.

[Young Drachma]

Dola --

That has to be a satisfying feeling. To work that hard, release a game and then try to get to your site message board and have it be too full to really get you in.

Or maybe not. But I'd think it would have to be. Even if you've been doing it a while.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

That's pretty hilarious. I bet Joe Morgan would demand a recall.

Yaz is interesting...started well, ruptured his achilles tendon in 1965, came back with a decent, but not as good, 1966, then in 1967, the year that IRL he won the triple crown, he had like 130 ABs and hit .121. He ended up on one of the expansion teams in 1969.

[Ksyrup]

OK, so here are the classic scenarios presented by an alternate history replay:

The Overachiever
Bob Sadowski (real career, 20-27)
246-116, 2.45 ERA; still active, just won 21 games at age 37

What Could Have Been
Mickey Mantle
813 HRs, .309 average, 3928 hits; still active at age 43 but retirement is imminent

Right On Target
Willie Mays (real career, 660 HRs, .302 average, 3283 hits)
662 HRs, .309 average, 3425 hits

[Ksyrup]

Am I supposed to be able to turn free agency on and off when I want? I'm in the off-season between 1975 and 1976 and want to turn FA on, but it's not letting me. What gives?

[Scholes]

I've simmed 1901-1991 overnight:

Bob Sadowski
41-34, 3 Sv, 3.99 ERA, 441 K's best season 18-11 in 1964, spent most of his time in the minors after that, thanks to a ruptured disc in his back which kept him out for 8 months.

Mickey Mantle (1949-1970)
.271, 677 HR, 2123 RBI, 3264 hits, retired at age 38

Willie Mays (1950-1973)
.270, 568 HR, 2062 RBI, 3505 hits, retired at age 42

Another what might have been:

Sandy Koufax (1955-1981)
363-276, 3.14 ERA, 4,915 K's, pitched until he was 46

I had the 3 year recalc on, and the stats are very in line, and there are virtually no surprise hall of famers. I'll have to try it again without the recalc on and see what happens.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Am I supposed to be able to turn free agency on and off when I want? I'm in the off-season between 1975 and 1976 and want to turn FA on, but it's not letting me. What gives?

Are you playing with commish mode activated?

[King of New York]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Excellent! I'll be interested to see the results.

One thing that confused me about the way the database is used...in the notes, it seemed to suggest that we had to manually point the game to each specific year that was to be imported, unlike Lahman, which is more Popeil (set it and forget it!). Is that the case? I'd hate to have to monitor 50-100 years of simming to manually update the database path each year. Not an issue so much if I'm playing it out, but just for fast-simming, that seems like an issue, if I read the instructions right.

Ksyrup, if I recall correctly (I'm at work right now, so I don't have the game in front of me), you do not have to reset the database path each season. Instead, when you first set up the game, you use one database path (I cannot recall its name off the top of my head, but it leads to a folder in the Gambo database called "2007"something--it's not "2007yearly," but the other one). Then, once you have the game set up, you change the database path so that the game henceforth imports rookies each year from a folder called "2007yearly," which is also part of the Gambo database. The game will then use "2007yearly" folder for player imports for the remainder of the game.

After you reset the path that first time, you don't ever need to do it again.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Are you playing with commish mode activated?

I figured it out. Apparently you have to sim through the beginning of the next year (January 1, 1976) to be able to make changes to those types of rules.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by King of New York

Ksyrup, if I recall correctly (I'm at work right now, so I don't have the game in front of me), you do not have to reset the database path each season. Instead, when you first set up the game, you use one database path (I cannot recall its name off the top of my head, but it leads to a folder in the Gambo database called "2007"something--it's not "2007yearly," but the other one). Then, once you have the game set up, you change the database path so that the game henceforth imports rookies each year from a folder called "2007yearly," which is also part of the Gambo database. The game will then use "2007yearly" folder for player imports for the remainder of the game.

After you reset the path that first time, you don't ever need to do it again.

Thanks. My next league I'm going to try that database as a test.

[Scholes]

Originally Posted by King of New York

Ksyrup, if I recall correctly (I'm at work right now, so I don't have the game in front of me), you do not have to reset the database path each season. Instead, when you first set up the game, you use one database path (I cannot recall its name off the top of my head, but it leads to a folder in the Gambo database called "2007"something--it's not "2007yearly," but the other one). Then, once you have the game set up, you change the database path so that the game henceforth imports rookies each year from a folder called "2007yearly," which is also part of the Gambo database. The game will then use "2007yearly" folder for player imports for the remainder of the game.

After you reset the path that first time, you don't ever need to do it again.

This is what I did, it worked well.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Scholes

This is what I did, it worked well.

I don't have the game in front of me now, but that sounds like what I did as well. I'm looking forward to peeking at more stats when I get home this evening to see how this run through with the Gambo database turns out.

[Izulde]

Not to sound like a moron but is there a demo out? Cuz I d/l'ed the game only there was no trial option.

[Scholes]

Other stuff from my history:

I didn't put players on original teams, held a draft instead.


The Cubs (!?) and Dodgers have the most World Series wins with 9 each. 10 teams have 5 or more World Series titles.

Detroit seems to be the cursed team now, with only 1 win in 1912.

Babe Ruth is the career HR leader at 746, as well as single season leader with 64. although I'm only up to 1991, so we'll see how that goes.

Walter Johnson leads pitching with 404 wins, but also had 411 losses, which leads that category too. Nolan Ryan leads in K's with 5384 and walks with 3343.

Shades of Kirby Puckett, as Bernie Williams is struck with blurred vision and leaves the game in 1988 after 4 seasons in the game.

The same affliction struck Lloyd Moseby after just 1.5 seasons in the majors after a promising minor league start.

Longest hitting streak is Bob Meusel with 42 games in 1921.

Don Mattingly won the triple crown in 1984, batting .336 40 145 for the Tigers. He was sapped of his power a couple years after that, but still playing at age 30 in 1991. That's probably the recalc at work.

Ken Phelps had a glorious 1987 for Texas, batting .302 with 50 HR and 141 RBI at age 32. He would retire after two more seasons.

Kirk Gibson is the highest paid player in baseball at the moment. The Yankees are paying him $11,855,050 a season.

I didn't buy OOTP 2006, but I have to admit this version is great so far. The fact that Catobase is built in now, and you can sim the history of baseball over night and it's all automatic is great. The expansion, money, stats, everything. Really cool.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Scholes

Ken Phelps had a glorious 1987 for Texas, batting .302 with 50 HR and 141 RBI at age 32. He would retire after two more seasons.

You should email that to George Steinbrenner so he can finally feel justified for trading Jay Buhner.

Are you using the Gambo database? What year did you start in?

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by Scholes

Ken Phelps had a glorious 1987 for Texas, batting .302 with 50 HR and 141 RBI at age 32. He would retire after two more seasons.

"Well, Buhner was a good prospect, no question about it. But my baseball people loved Ken Phelps' bat. They kept saying, 'Ken Phelps, Ken Phelps!'"

[Ksyrup]

Beat you to it!

[Scholes]

I started in 1901 with the Gambo database. Used the import one for the initial draft, then switched to the yearly one for every season after that.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Scholes

I started in 1901 with the Gambo database. Used the import one for the initial draft, then switched to the yearly one for every season after that.

You did the recalc, though, right, which is why Babe Ruth came out correct? Without the recalc, I'm afraid of starting a sim prior to 1919/1920. And even between those, I'm basically altering history by either leaving him in Boston or putting him in NY. He is the single biggest issue to starting a sim for me. Putting him on the Yankees and going from there makes the most sense, I guess.

[DaddyTorgo]

wtf is the difference b/w the databases?

[Scholes]

I just looked at Ruth, and while I did do the recalc, it looks like he was a pitcher when he started but switched to a hitter in 1918 (notice the ratings changes.) It doesn't look as if he ever pitched a game in the majors though. (I just generated fake minor league team names, if you were wondering about that.)

10-31-1913 Drafted in the 1913 first-year player draft (Round 1, Pick 11, 11th overall Pick) by the Chicago Cubs.
01-01-1914 SISA scouting updated ratings (potential): Stuff: 1 (3); Movement: 19 (11); Control: 9 (5).
05-30-1914 Pitches a 5-hit shutout against the Lafayette Desperados with 2 strikeouts and 3 BB allowed!
08-15-1914 Injured (strained back muscle), out for 1-2 weeks.
01-01-1915 SISA scouting updated ratings (potential): Stuff: 7 (4); Movement: 21 (11); Control: 10 (5).
04-23-1915 Pitches a 1-hit shutout against the Jersey City Monarchs with 6 strikeouts and 1 BB allowed!
06-17-1915 Pitches a 3-hit shutout against the Jersey City Monarchs with 1 strikeouts and 1 BB allowed!
08-03-1915 Pitches a 2-hit shutout against the Newark Atlantics with 3 strikeouts and 3 BB allowed!
01-01-1916 SISA scouting updated ratings (potential): Stuff: 7 (3); Movement: 21 (11); Control: 10 (5).
06-13-1916 Pitches a 2-hit shutout against the Springfield Pastimers with 7 strikeouts and 4 BB allowed!
06-30-1916 Pitches a 6-hit shutout against the San Bernardino Independents with 5 strikeouts and 2 BB allowed!
01-01-1917 SISA scouting updated ratings (potential): Stuff: 6 (3); Movement: 20 (11); Control: 11 (5).
06-17-1917 Pitches a 5-hit shutout against the Reno Cosmos with 3 strikeouts and 6 BB allowed!
01-01-1918 SISA scouting updated ratings (potential): Contact: 16 (8); Power: 14 (7); Eye: 17 (8).

[Scholes]

As for the difference between databases, this is from the readme that comes with them.

The 1st directory “2007Import” should be used when you first create your league. Make the appropriate edits described below then create your historical league. Your league should now include any players who played that year on their teams, minor leaguers in their organization on their rosters and players who missed the season as Free Agents.

The 2nd directory “2007Yearly” should be used from every year on. This DB includes players actual yearly statistics and an import year stat line for player the year they made their professional debut. Using this database will import players as rookies when they made their pro debut and allow the game to adjust players as the game is designed.

[Ksyrup]

And I think that auto-move from pitcher to hitter will only happen with the recalc every year option. Maybe the thing for me to do is only do the recalc for 1918 - if that's even possible (not sure if that's a set league creation choice or something that can be changed once the league is created).

[Young Drachma]

I just went ahead and started from 1901 using Lahman. I want some real player history to keep me going until someone releases a roster set. Heck, I'm so into this that I'd almost be tempted to make one myself.

Almost.

[Scholes]

I had it set to every 3 years, but after looking it doesn't look like you can change it once the history has started.

[DaddyTorgo]

no I mean...between Gambo and Lehman? I've always used Lehman before, what is this gambo thing?

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I just went ahead and started from 1901 using Lahman. I want some real player history to keep me going until someone releases a roster set. Heck, I'm so into this that I'd almost be tempted to make one myself.

Almost.

What happened with Ruth?

[ScottVib]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

no I mean...between Gambo and Lehman? I've always used Lehman before, what is this gambo thing?

The Gambo database imports players at the time of their professional (minor league) debuts, rather then their major league debuts.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

What happened with Ruth?

It's 1905 at the moment. I'll let you know when it gets further down the line.

[Ksyrup]

Cool, thanks.

I think the game is giving too many save opportunities. Either that, or because saves weren't technically counted as a stat I'm not used to seeing 20+ saves in the 50s and 60s and 40+ saves in the 70s. Just seems like too many saves are being recorded.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by ScottVib

The Gambo database imports players at the time of their professional (minor league) debuts, rather then their major league debuts.

so that essentially they can have minor league careers?

sounds interesting. Where does one find it? save me a googling.