Official 2021 College Football thread

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

And there it is. Hunter signs with Deion Sanders at HBCU. Hard to compete with the narrative there, not sure what FSU could have done but holy shit we are the #1 story of NSD for all the wrong reasons.

Promise more than the $2 million Barstool and "Penn National Gaming" did. I see no way this isn't going to turn CFB into a complete shitshow.

[RainMaker]

That story is fake. I'm sure he is getting some nice NIL deals, but the Barstool one is just them fucking around.

[Ksyrup]

I can't believe it's legal for a coach to be employed by a company paying NIL to a player. How is that possible?

[RainMaker]

Also funny how people are only getting upset now that smaller schools can get their players paid. Has anyone been following the NCAA for the past few decades? Only difference now is that instead of a bag under the table it's out in the open.

[QuikSand]

Deion Sanders flips No. 1 overall recruit Travis Hunter from Florida State to Jackson State on signing day - The Athletic

...is that as nutso as it sounds to a semi-informed guy like me?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I can't believe it's legal for a coach to be employed by a company paying NIL to a player. How is that possible?

Half the coaches in D1 have lucrative deals with Nike, Under Armour, and other brands that are sponsoring athletes.

[Ksyrup]

I guess. Honestly, I haven't paid much attention to NIL since it was implemented. Didn't realize it was going to allow such direct interweaving of the schools/employees and players. Figured it was more of a boosters thing.

[cuervo72]

Nutso, but I welcome the chaos.

[Ksyrup]

Curious if anything comes of this. Lots of "chaos" to be sorted out in this new landscape, for sure.

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— ����Chief Nole���� (@AG_Nole8387) December 15, 2021

[Swaggs]

I watched Blue Chips last week for the first time since it came out. It is the '90's college basketball movie starring Nick Nolte with Shaq and Penny Hardaway as recruits. It was almost comical how much more corrupt things are compared to back then. The one recruit wanted a new tractor for his dad and $30,000.

[sovereignstar v2]

Haha, I saw that movie at the theatre. It's class!

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Also funny how people are only getting upset now that smaller schools can get their players paid. Has anyone been following the NCAA for the past few decades? Only difference now is that instead of a bag under the table it's out in the open.

My eyebrow was raised more about the casino owners jumping right in than the kid getting bank.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Folks wanted the wild west, they got it.

[HomerSimpson98]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Folks wanted the wild west, they got it.

This. What the fuck did everyone expect who wanted this?



Kudos, they are killing the game faster than I thought possible.

[Solecismic]

It would be fascinating to sit down with Deion and have a conversation about where he's going with this. At this point, though, who in the ACC or SEC would want to schedule Jackson State for the paid FCS game? Could this be some sort of long-game arrangement to get Deion and some players ported to FSU in 2023?

[HomerSimpson98]

Deion is in it for Deion. Always has been and always will. Just google his "charter school" in Texas. Whatever helps Deion's bottom line, that's where he's going.

[Thomkal]

Coastal with the 2nd recruiting class in the Sun Belt behind Arkansas State, and #69 overall.

[QuikSand]

nice

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by bronconick

My eyebrow was raised more about the casino owners jumping right in than the kid getting bank.

That story seems made up by some Barstool folks to fuck with people. Not a single reputable source reporting it. The kid was going to get paid no matter where he went to school.

If people are concerned about gaming companies being involved in college sports, they're going to be really shocked when they find out who owns large chunks of them. And at the deals schools have struck with the schools. That money infiltrated the sport years ago.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by HomerSimpson98

Deion is in it for Deion. Always has been and always will. Just google his "charter school" in Texas. Whatever helps Deion's bottom line, that's where he's going.

Sounds like every other college football coach. Welcome to capitalism.

Weird how one top recruit choosing to pass on a top school has sent fans into a complete meltdown. Schools have used their massive financial resources to create a recruiting advantage forever.

[Solecismic]

What makes this story particularly interesting is that Hunter won't play a particularly challenging schedule for someone with his skills. He won't practice against a good offense. Usually, top prospects want to hone their skills against the best college players in the game.

This isn't just about one NIL package. This is about a kid choosing a very different path - whether it's an indirect arrangement with Florida State or it's about protecting his elite status until he can be drafted. It's nothing like we've seen before.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Folks wanted the wild west, they got it.

Eh, some of us just wanted the schools to pay the players out of the money the players helped generate. That argument is over now though. And yes, I am a bit uncomfortable with it because the kids are now "working" for the people who pay them.

[Ksyrup]

I saw at least 2 transfers signed with (or committed to) Jackson State today as well.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Emory Jones will reportedly enter the portal after Florida's bowl game.

Thus avoiding the sticky situation that LSU is facing.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Eh, some of us just wanted the schools to pay the players out of the money the players helped generate. That argument is over now though. And yes, I am a bit uncomfortable with it because the kids are now "working" for the people who pay them.

But they aren't. The schools aren't paying for anything more. Players are just allowed to get jobs on the side like every other college student is permitted to.

I don't see what the big deal is. No one gave a shit that I worked a job while in college. The difference is that our value in the free market at 19 years old is considerably less than these kids.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

This isn't just about one NIL package. This is about a kid choosing a very different path - whether it's an indirect arrangement with Florida State or it's about protecting his elite status until he can be drafted. It's nothing like we've seen before.

He gets to play right away and maybe protect his body over the next couple of years. No reason he can't transfer if he wants to play at a higher level. Players skip bowl games all the time now, or just sit out chunks of the season like Bosa. Plenty have to start in community college too.

Or maybe this isn't a business decision and he just wants to go to Jackson State and play under his idol.

Seriously shocked at the meltdown people are having over a recruit choosing a small school.

[GrantDawg]

I think it is the fact it is his idol and the fact he will be able to be featured like he would never be at FSU. My guess is you will see him playing both ways like Sanders did. He will probably take snaps at reciever, running back and even as a Wildcat QB.

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[RainMaker]

I'm also going to guess that Deion is getting a P5 job soon. And there is a good chance he will be taking some of these high profile recruits with him.

So it may just be he gets to play a year or two at Jackson State and then goes to play for a bigger school. He'll get opportunities as a true freshman that he would never get at FSU.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

But they aren't. The schools aren't paying for anything more. Players are just allowed to get jobs on the side like every other college student is permitted to.

I don't see what the big deal is. No one gave a shit that I worked a job while in college. The difference is that our value in the free market at 19 years old is considerably less than these kids.

Just like you when you worked in college, the kids are working for the people who are paying them money Yes, technically they are being paid for their name, image and likeness, but we all acknowledge they are being paid for their football work. The kids are also doing football work for the school but are not compensated with money. I think they should be. That was and is my preference. Yes, I know scholarships, room and board etc. That is the argument we had been having for years. We are not doing that any more. I am not against them getting paid for their NIL as well. In lieu of my preference, this is the next best thing for the kids to get cash for their work.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

But they aren't. The schools aren't paying for anything more. Players are just allowed to get jobs on the side like every other college student is permitted to.

I don't see what the big deal is. No one gave a shit that I worked a job while in college. The difference is that our value in the free market at 19 years old is considerably less than these kids.

I'm going to venture a guess that you weren't offered a job that was conditioned on which college you went to. Working a job was permitted in college; it wasn't the reason you chose to attend that college.

I'm fine with kids getting paid, I just think having no and/or inconsistent (by state) rules as to how much they can get paid that materially affects their college choice is the tail wagging the dog. It's just legalizing what used to be illegal instead of coming up with a better solution for how to fairly compensate players once they get to college.

[Swaggs]

I hadn’t really thought about Deion being an FSU alum in this situation. I wonder if he still has free sideline access after this.

[Ksyrup]

FSU twitter has been 48% "fire Norvell," 48% "remove Deion from the ring of honor" and about 4% semi-sane.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I'm going to venture a guess that you weren't offered a job that was conditioned on which college you went to. Working a job was permitted in college; it wasn't the reason you chose to attend that college.

People choose colleges for financial reasons all the time. Some stay close to home so they can save on room and board. Some attend schools that can accommodate work schedules (most adults for instance). And then there are schools you attend because they offer a pipeline to lucrative jobs.

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I'm fine with kids getting paid, I just think having no and/or inconsistent (by state) rules as to how much they can get paid that materially affects their college choice is the tail wagging the dog. It's just legalizing what used to be illegal instead of coming up with a better solution for how to fairly compensate players once they get to college.

Well none of it was illegal by law. It was just that we allowed a cartel to eliminate the free market in a particular industry. Now that we removed that restriction, we're seeing capitalism do its thing.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I hadn’t really thought about Deion being an FSU alum in this situation. I wonder if he still has free sideline access after this.

He'll probably be the coach there in 2 years.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Just like you when you worked in college, the kids are working for the people who are paying them money Yes, technically they are being paid for their name, image and likeness, but we all acknowledge they are being paid for their football work. The kids are also doing football work for the school but are not compensated with money. I think they should be. That was and is my preference. Yes, I know scholarships, room and board etc. That is the argument we had been having for years. We are not doing that any more. I am not against them getting paid for their NIL as well. In lieu of my preference, this is the next best thing for the kids to get cash for their work.

They are being paid because they are celebrities. We don't care if Emma Watson does a commercial for Revlon while attending college.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

People choose colleges for financial reasons all the time. Some stay close to home so they can save on room and board. Some attend schools that can accommodate work schedules (most adults for instance). And then there are schools you attend because they offer a pipeline to lucrative

I don't see the equivalency at all. It's not just a job for convenience, or cost savings, or the promise of a future job, it's "I'll pay you for marketing or charity or whatever the hell job if you go to this school." No other college students are presented that kind of choice when choosing a college and whatever job they want or need to take to help pay for college. The two are separate in terms of some kind of quid pro quo.

I'm assuming there's some sort of morals clause that is the only thing preventing a strip club from offering $50K for cheerleaders to market for them.

Again, I'm not against pay at all. But ir should be as a result of their college play/marketability, not as a carrot to get them to come to a school. This is a sore subject for me because I think people like social media influencers are some of the most useless people in our society. And coaxing someone to play a sport at a particular school because of their pre-college marketing potential is worthless (IMO, anyway).

I hope that a few years of bad deals with little to no ROI - or even better, bad publicity when some of these guys inevitably screw up, as young people do - will throw a little cold water on all this NIL money being thrown around at this stage in a player's career.

[Ksyrup]

And of course, all of that presupposes there is a legitimate purpose for the "job" they are being paid for, other than playing football for the school. Because of course, we know that's not the case. If that's what we want, then why not just drop the facade and let schools pay directly with funding from whatever source wants to chip in?

[JPhillips]

The vast majority of schools already need to pull from fees and tuition to makes ends meet for the athletics program. I'd like to see the NCAA make things simple and say the athletics program can pay whoever they want, but they must balance the books without money from the institution. I'm very much opposed to a system where even more money at public schools is funneled to athletics programs.

[Solecismic]

Brands want to attract new customers, and while the ad industry has encouraged the myth that they care about 18-49 television ratings more than anything else, that's not completely accurate. They want pre-teens up to young 20s, maybe, for many products. After that, your preferences become much more set. Apparently, all you need is insurance and to nag your doctor for prescriptions after you're 25.

Influencers are just a form of advertising. Television doesn't work for a wide range of products now, because kids will turn to their cells as soon as the commercials turn on - if they're even watching. A hit show is one that gets a 0.8 18-49 rating these days - that used to be instant cancellation.

For decades, we've increasingly pretended that athletes in the revenue sports aren't professionals in training. We ask these kids to do a professional job and when they do it well, they help generate a lot of revenue.

Somehow, and I think many of us agree on this, the kids should be paid. It would be nice to pretend that the scholarship is fair compensation, but it isn't for many.

How to separate the 1% of these revenue-producing athletes from the rest of the athletes is a difficult question. This is an uncomfortable transition, but one that was necessary. I hope it can be done while preserving non-revenue college sports.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

They are being paid because they are celebrities. We don't care if Emma Watson does a commercial for Revlon while attending college.

I think a large number of college football fans understand what you're saying, but looking at it from a sports standpoint it's probably going to eventually lead to the death (or most certainly, strong decline) of the sport. From a competitive balance standpoint what we're seeing isn't sustainable and Jackson State may land a player because of Deion's connections, but anyone that follows college football at all knows the schools that will win the money game in the end.

If you took MLB, the NBA, or the NFL and made the players free agents, only paid them a living wage, but put no limit on the endorsement deals they could land the sports wouldn't last very long.

Like I said, what we're seeing isn't sustainable. Either the money dries up, the fans lose interest, or a combination of the two.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

He'll probably be the coach there in 2 years.

And unemployed in 3.

He's still years away from being ready to turn loose with a top tier high school team, much less a P5 program.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Somehow, and I think many of us agree on this, the kids should be paid. It would be nice to pretend that the scholarship is fair compensation, but it isn't for many.

How to separate the 1% of these revenue-producing athletes from the rest of the athletes is a difficult question. This is an uncomfortable transition, but one that was necessary. I hope it can be done while preserving non-revenue college sports.

Keep in mind that athletes have been able to pull a great deal more than just a scholarship for some time. They had access to other pools of money for clothes, housing, ect that the average student doesn't have access to.

Your 2nd point is the thing that kills me. We're essentially on the road to blowing up college football to satisfy the less than 1% that break the system.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And unemployed in 3.

He's still years away from being ready to turn loose with a top tier high school team, much less a P5 program.

Yeah I don't see FSU having any interest him in 2 years, 3 years, or 5 years. Winning at Jackson State when you can simply out recruit everyone that level with your name is a million miles away from the challenges he'd see at a P5 school.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And unemployed in 3.

He's still years away from being ready to turn loose with a top tier high school team, much less a P5 program.

Given where the game feels like it is going though, it begs the question - is he exactly what a program like FSU needs? Celebrity endorser-high caliber FB player-getter, make sure his recruits have access to all the money they will need to come to the school and surround him with competent Xs and Os coaches to manage the minutia of, you know, the actual games. If he brings in enough talent and you are able to pay them what they need to come to your school, can you duct tape the rest with the right foot soldiers running the program beneath his ego and celebrity status?

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The vast majority of schools already need to pull from fees and tuition to makes ends meet for the athletics program. I'd like to see the NCAA make things simple and say the athletics program can pay whoever they want, but they must balance the books without money from the institution. I'm very much opposed to a system where even more money at public schools is funneled to athletics programs.

The average program requires more than $10 million per year from student fees and the government. Very, very few sports programs make money (less than 100 men's college basketball teams, about 25-30 football teams, and there are no examples in any other sport).

Recently, the University of Akron discussed eliminating college sports, or just eliminating football. The conclusion was that the cost of leaving the MAC (they have their handcuffs, even though the television money is tiny compared to the power conferences) was so high that it would temporarily make the problem worse. They had a very complete and interesting report that's worth a read if you want to look for it.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I think a large number of college football fans understand what you're saying, but looking at it from a sports standpoint it's probably going to eventually lead to the death (or most certainly, strong decline) of the sport. From a competitive balance standpoint what we're seeing isn't sustainable and Jackson State may land a player because of Deion's connections, but anyone that follows college football at all knows the schools that will win the money game in the end.

If you took MLB, the NBA, or the NFL and made the players free agents, only paid them a living wage, but put no limit on the endorsement deals they could land the sports wouldn't last very long.

Like I said, what we're seeing isn't sustainable. Either the money dries up, the fans lose interest, or a combination of the two.

Competitive balance? The same handful of schools have dominated for some time now. Position coaches at Alabama make considerably more money than the head coach at a MAC school. The athletic department budget at Ohio State is 10 to 20 times that of a Sun Belt school. All of these things bring massive competitive balance issues to the sport.

None of you have given a shit about competitive balance. You ain't fooling anyone.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Competitive balance? The same handful of schools have dominated for some time now. Position coaches at Alabama make considerably more money than the head coach at a MAC school. The athletic department budget at Ohio State is 10 to 20 times that of a Sun Belt school. All of these things bring massive competitive balance issues to the sport.

None of you have given a shit about competitive balance. You ain't fooling anyone.

Competitive balance was damaged by continuing to try to find a way to crown the perfect national champion in the sport that traditionally didn't put as much weight into a national championship as other sports. Competitive balance will likely be killed by the NIL.

I don't give a shit about MAC schools to be honest, but the P5 schools had been able to compete with one another assuming the athletic department didn't have their heads up their asses. Take WVU, the school I'm a fan of for instance. In the BCS era they played in 4 BCS bowls and came up 1 game short of playing for a national title. Under the old bowl system they played for an outright national title in '88 and a share of one in '92. Those accomplishments are impossible to replicate under the current system.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I don't see the equivalency at all. It's not just a job for convenience, or cost savings, or the promise of a future job, it's "I'll pay you for marketing or charity or whatever the hell job if you go to this school." No other college students are presented that kind of choice when choosing a college and whatever job they want or need to take to help pay for college. The two are separate in terms of some kind of quid pro quo.

I'm assuming there's some sort of morals clause that is the only thing preventing a strip club from offering $50K for cheerleaders to market for them.

Again, I'm not against pay at all. But ir should be as a result of their college play/marketability, not as a carrot to get them to come to a school. This is a sore subject for me because I think people like social media influencers are some of the most useless people in our society. And coaxing someone to play a sport at a particular school because of their pre-college marketing potential is worthless (IMO, anyway).

I hope that a few years of bad deals with little to no ROI - or even better, bad publicity when some of these guys inevitably screw up, as young people do - will throw a little cold water on all this NIL money being thrown around at this stage in a player's career.

I mean I agree with you on influencers. I find that stuff to be loathsome. But it's a business transaction between adults in a supposedly free market economy. It's really none of our business.

[Ksyrup]

For me, it's the struggle between wanting these sports to be as free and open as they should be and for players to get in on the money and wanting some semblance of normalcy in the structure of how college sports play out - most players stay at one school for 4 years, there's some roster certainty, it's not just play a season and then throw a third of the players into a hat, pick names, and start the next season with drastically different rosters, etc. It just sucks from a pure view of what we've always known the sport to be.

I still view most of what has transpired as positive, but I do think the money thing should have been implemented in a better, more structured manner. The transfer portal was long overdue, and in fact, transfers have been allowed in all sports except FB and BB even before the portal. The portal was put in place to allow players the ability to contact other schools without interference from their existing school, because coaches had absolute discretion in permitting or refusing to allow contact.

The year before the portal was put in place, one of my daughter's teammates wasn't given permission to talk to another school until after their coach attempted to force the other coach to change an away game to a home game the next season in exchange for releasing her to contact the other coach. When they called his bluff, he finally caved in. I can't imagine what other kinds of BS coaches tried to pull in the past.

But a by-product of the portal is that there's no longer any natural evolution of the sports as they have usually unfolded over a number of years. One team's great recruiting class one year can all leave the next. It kinda sucks, but students shouldn't be forced to attend a college or play for a coach/school where they don't want to be.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Competitive balance was damaged by continuing to try to find a way to crown the perfect national champion in the sport that traditionally didn't put as much weight into a national championship as other sports. Competitive balance will likely be killed by the NIL.

I don't give a shit about MAC schools to be honest, but the P5 schools had been able to compete with one another assuming the athletic department didn't have their heads up their asses. Take WVU, the school I'm a fan of for instance. In the BCS era they played in 4 BCS bowls and came up 1 game short of playing for a national title. Under the old bowl system they played for an outright national title in '88 and a share of one in '92. Those accomplishments are impossible to replicate under the current system.

There has never been competitive balance in college football. The same schools dominating the sport today have dominated the sport for the past 100 years.

Alabama has more SEC titles than Florida, Auburn, Ole Miss, Kentucky, Missouri, Vanderbilt, A&M, Mississippi State, Arkansas, and South Carolina have combined. Heck, Georgia Tech has more SEC titles than half the conference and they haven't played in it in 70 years.

If people truly cared about competitive balance, they would have been screaming about the disparity in coaching salaries, facilities, TV contracts, and so on. They don't because this isn't about competitive balance.